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Odds and Ends: Hawkins, Pettitte, Strasburg

By Tim Dierkes [September 22, 2008 at 3:51pm CST]

Rounding up the day's links...

Jack Etkin of the Rocky Mountain News talks about the future of Garrett Atkins. We discussed the possibility of an Atkins trade in this post.
MLB.com's Jim Molony says the Astros would like to re-sign reliever LaTroy Hawkins. Amazingly, Hawkins has thrown 17 scoreless innings as an Astro.
This is a popular link lately...Vegas Watch examines April predictions from various analysts. Meanwhile, Scott Long digs in deeper on PECOTA's American League predictions. Personally I am more interested in the logic behind projections. Did anyone predict Rays starters to post a 3.88 ERA? Did anyone peg Dioner Navarro and Carl Crawford's seasons?
Viva El Birdos hopes the Cardinals do not sign Jon Garland this winter.
Sam Mellinger wonders how the Royals would replace David DeJesus if they traded him.
Andy Pettitte remains undecided on 2009. He's hinted a desire to come back, but it's unknown whether the Yankees want him. Houston could make sense.
The Mariners are currently in line to have first crack at drafting Stephen Strasburg. They could even use Erik Bedard's money to sign him.
Javier Valentin hasn't heard from the Reds regarding 2009.

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Comments

No offense to Garland, but the kind of contract he will probably get this offseason reeks of Carlos Silva.

PS: The Padres called, they want to draft the SDSU hometown guy.

Posted by: melonis rex | September 22, 2008 at 04:23 PM

I for one hope the Yankees thank Andy Pettite all he has done for the organization and finally wave farewell. I hope this doesn't turn into another Bernie Williams type standoff, but I think the Yanks need to let Andy go.

Earlier in the season, I was unsure what to do about Moose and Pettite. I think they should resign only 1 of the 2, leaving room to sign a more elite FA and leave some room for a kid or two. Wang, FA pitcher, Joba, Mussina/Pettite, Hughes/Aceves/Rasner/Horne/Wright/whoever else can fight it out for the last spot.

I eventually decided that I would let the players choose for me. Whoever came up big down the stretch and handled the pressure of big games well, in my opinion, should stay. Pettite has apparently made the decision for me pretty easy by going 3-6 with a 5.43 ERA since the all-star break, specifically when he got roughed up for 6 runs in 4.2 innings in a crucial game against the Red Sox at the end of August.

I love Andy Pettite, and will forever regard him as a great Yankee. However, we as fans need to step back from sentimental feelings for such a Yankee great and make a baseball decision. As far as I'm concerned, the smart baseball decision is to let him go.

Posted by: jlemoine | September 22, 2008 at 04:47 PM

Let me just point out that Moose, on the other hand, has posted a 7-3 record since the all-star break, with a nice 3.51 ERA.

Posted by: jlemoine | September 22, 2008 at 04:49 PM

jlemoine - I agree with you on Andy. He was a great Yankee for a lot of years and we as fans appreciate him. However, his stuff doesn't work in the AL Beast anymore...and is certainly not worth $16 mil a year.

I disagree on Moose though. I think we need to thank him for a great season and wish him well in the National League. His "new stuff" worked this year...but he's 40 years old and the chance that teams catch up to him after a summer of scouting is pretty strong. He also is not worth $10-$15 mil per year. Now...if the Yankees somehow can't fill their rotation thru free-agency, trades and/or the farm...and we need a #4-5 type for a one-year discounted contract, ok. However, smart teams and GM's don't pay 40 year olds coming off career years any more than I just specualted.

As for what we CAN do about the rotation? I don't think CC is coming here. He's a WC guy and if doesn't like it here and/or can't handle the spotlight/lifestyle...we don't want him. That scenario could make him an overpaid bust.

I think you go get AJ Burnett. He's played in the AL Beast, dominates the Sux and the Yankees don't have to face him anymore! Plus I read that he likes NY.

Next, target one from the Lowe, Dempster, Garland, O Perez group. (or Moose)

Step 3 - Package Cano and some young arms to get Matt Cain. If there is one thing the Yankees do have, it's young arms. (NOTE: All the stupid Yankee haters, don't even think about commenting on how the Yankees farm teams suck. In case you missed it...their AAA AND AA teams just won Championships vs Bostons & Tampa's "oh so magnificant" farm teams. They were ranked #5 this year in MLB)

Wang
Burnett
Cain
Dempster/Perez/Lowe/Moose
Hughes/Aceves

Pen: Mo, Joba (YES, in the PEN), Coke, Bruney, Veras, Ramirez, Marte, H Sanchez, Melancon, etc

Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | September 22, 2008 at 05:28 PM

Here is what I do for the Yankees

Sign Burnett to a four year deal worth 65 million dollars(about 16 million per).
Then sign Oliver Perez(lefty) about four years at 44 million dollars(11 million per)
Then sign Mark Teixeira 7 years 130 million dollars(a little above 18 million per season)
Then sign Mark Kotsay one year at 5 million dollars

Lineup
1. Damon-LF/DH
2. Jeter-SS
3. Rodriguez-3B
4. Teixiera-1B
5. Matsui-LF/DH
7. Posada-C
8. Cano-2B
9. Kotsay/Cabrera(split time)-CF

Bench
This will also be improved in the offseason, but it is a crapshoot who they will get for the bench, so I won't guess

Rotation
1. Wang
2. Chamberlain
3. Burnett
4. Perez
5. Hughes/etc.

Bullpen
Cl-Rivera
Marte
Other young arms Yanks have

Posted by: defense | September 22, 2008 at 05:46 PM

"I think you go get AJ Burnett. He's played in the AL Beast, dominates the Sux and the Yankees don't have to face him anymore! Plus I read that he likes NY."

Definitely agree that Burnett makes sense for the Yankees. He's a big arm that's proven he can pitch in the AL East, and will likely cost somewhere around half of what CC will overall.

"Next, target one from the Lowe, Dempster, Garland, O Perez group. (or Moose)"

I agree with this as well, although I doubt the Yankees will be willing to throw enough money out there to land Dempster who wants to return to Chicago. Of the other three I'd agree with defense that Perez makes the most sense, as his stuff is the best.

"Step 3 - Package Cano and some young arms to get Matt Cain. If there is one thing the Yankees do have, it's young arms."

This step I'm not so sure about though. Not because the Yankees shouldn't go after Cain, he'd be awesome for them, but the Giants would likely want far more than Cano after the season he's had. They would have to give up some very good arms to land Cain. Maybe not Hughes but at least Kennedy or Melancon and another prospect as well.

Posted by: scribbletone | September 22, 2008 at 06:12 PM

IF the Giants were willing to trade Cain, they'd probably want an offensive centerpiece, certainly not a questionable Cano. The player who kept getting mentioned in the Spring was Alex Rios. It's more that kind of hitter, I think, that the Giants would demand--IF they were willing to trade Cain, at all (I wouldn't, unless overwhelmed).

Posted by: Playwright | September 22, 2008 at 06:29 PM

Well, I think you guys & Hank ought to buy Texeira, Furcal, Sabathia, Burnett, and KRod. Trade Cano for Longoria and Price. Trade Gardner for Pujols. Then sort out the positions in Spring Training.

Posted by: Playwright | September 22, 2008 at 06:37 PM

Playwright

I hope your joking. Gardner for the best hitter in baseball. Cano for the Rays best hitter and soon to be best pitcher. KRod wants to close.

Posted by: yankfan1 | September 22, 2008 at 06:42 PM

Oliver Perez is going to cost a lot more than $11 mil a year for 4 years. While he hasn't been amazing this year (or last), he just turned 27 years old. Somebody's going to throw 13 or 14 mil a year at him.

Posted by: thehoagster07 | September 22, 2008 at 06:42 PM

Yankfan1, he is obviously being a smart(butt) due to the above comments. They were realistic(atleast mine was), but I guess some people are somewhat envious that we have a financial advantage, and will probably be using it this offseason. Players like Teixeira, Perez, and Burnett are all real options for us this offseason

Posted by: defense | September 22, 2008 at 06:53 PM

I don't know about that, thehoagster07. I mean guy isn't ace quality. The past two seasons(including this season) he has ERAs of 3.56, and 4.10, and the NL East's hitting(not including the Mets) is above average AT BEST. Not to mention that there are a ton of starters on the market this year, so that should bring down Perez's contract this year. I could maybe see him netting 12 million per season, but that is it. I don't see any team throwing 13-14 million at him when you could probably be in the Burnett running for a million or two more.

Posted by: defense | September 22, 2008 at 06:56 PM

"Javier Valentin hasn't heard from the Reds regarding 2009."

Micah Owings is taking over his role of pinch hitter specialist without taking a roster spot...valentin is done in cincy

Posted by: coltholt | September 22, 2008 at 07:03 PM

"As for what we CAN do about the rotation? I don't think CC is coming here. He's a WC guy and if doesn't like it here and/or can't handle the spotlight/lifestyle...we don't want him. That scenario could make him an overpaid bust."

I disagree, I think hes a national league guy--

and the yankees fans, there are a lot of you guys out there, but I don't see a huge winter:
Burnett once to stay in Toronto, bc his wife loves it
Sabathia wants to stay in the national league and prefers the west coast
Texiera really likes LA and wants to resign
I think your best bet is Oliver Perez or Derek Lowe, but if you guys want big hitter, you are gonna have to do through trades

but this is what I think, and you know what they say about opinions...

Posted by: prov1x41 | September 22, 2008 at 07:09 PM

Oliver Perez will get 13-14 mil from someone if not the mets he is a Boras client and is only 27 if the mets can get him for 13 for 3 or 4 years it will be good since he dominates the Phillies and the yankees.

Posted by: metsfan | September 22, 2008 at 07:21 PM

To melonis rex

PS - The Padres sweep of the Nats virtually took them out of the shot at the 1st and 2nd overall picks...

Posted by: baseballismylyf4 | September 22, 2008 at 07:21 PM

We've heard speculation of DeJesus going to Atlanta. Lately it's been Francoeur to KC.

Could this be the beginnings of a deal, obviously it would have to be expanded some, that would swap the two players, subsequently filling a need for each team?

DeJesus gives the Braves a quality CF until their young guys can step up enough. Meanwhile RF will be open so they can get some early playing time and experience.

KC can play Gathright in CF, Guillen, Teahen, and Frenchie can fill the corner spots or DH (unless Guillen is traded).

Posted by: Aaron | September 22, 2008 at 07:31 PM

I'm pumped for the M's getting the first round pick but I honestly hope we win the next games so we can stay under 100 losses and I like the bat of Ackley or Green.

Posted by: Slurve | September 22, 2008 at 07:49 PM

They Yankees do not have the right prospects it would take to acquire Cain from the Giants. The Giants would want high-ceiling positional prospects, not arms, and outside of Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero there isn't much there.

Please feel free to hype your prospects...

Posted by: The Juice | September 22, 2008 at 08:26 PM

Does anyone think the Indians might be able to make a deal for Cain? I know the Giants are looking for young positional players, and the Indians have a number of them that are ML ready or are very close to being ready.

Not sure what positions Giants might want, but here are a few players that could be moved for a SP.

SS Jhonny Peralta, 25 years old...2B Josh Barfield, 24 years old...RF Franklin Gutierrez, 25 years old...LF Ben Francisco, 26 years old...C Kelly Shoppach, 27 years old...1B Ryan Garko, 27 years old...all these guys have ML experience. Could the Indians include one or two of these guys along with a minor league prospect for Cain? Just a thought...

Posted by: ilulic | September 22, 2008 at 09:01 PM

I think Burnette is the best option for the Yanks as well, but I have read a lot about his connections in Toronto that would convince him to stay.

As for Moose, I still think he's got enough left in the tank. Yes, I realize major league scouting is insane and hitters will likely adjust at least a little. But Moose is a proven, quality veteran on a staff with a lot of young guys. He is of little concern health wise, and can probably provide us with 2 more years AT LEAST with league average numbers, and in all likelihood, 1 or 2 of those seasons will better.

Even if the Yanks don't sign a top tier starter this winter, Moose would still slot in as the #3 pitcher. A #3 that can bring a sub-4.00 ERA to the table is pretty acceptable. That said, I think the Yanks should make an effort to sign one more starter that can provide at least better than league average numbers anyway to stabilize our rotation in case of injury.

Posted by: jlemoine | September 22, 2008 at 09:10 PM

Personally I have very strong fan feelings towards Pettitte, but it is indeed time for us to part ways. Moose on the other hand, I think, has at least a year (if not two or three... yeah 2 or 3, John Smoltz style) left. I think they should sign Moose again, and as for the FA star, I don't know about Sabathia, I've been looking into the whole thing and Sabathia might not be the guy for the Yanks, too many ups and downs, he's like a roller coaster. If I could I'd go for Roy Halladay, but that's not happening. I don't know if he's a FA but is Justin Deutcherer (pardon spelling) a FA? he could fill that gap nicely. Personally I'd go for this rotation:

1. FA Star (CC, AJ Burnett, Sheets)
2. Moose
3. Phil Coke
4. Wang
5. Alfredo Aceves

Pen: Mariano, Joba (another year or two at least, it really hurts to admit it, but he needs to be in the Pen for longer), Hughes, Ponson, Bruney etc.
and if someone gets injured, they could use Hughes/Ponson as a spot starter, or even Joba (please dont!)

as for the lineup:
1. Damon (LF)
2. Jeter (SS)
3. Abreu (RF)
4. A-Rod (3B)
5. Giambi (DH)
6. Posada (C)
7. Matsui (1B) yeah, Matsui 1B!
8. Cody Ransom (2B) yeah, trade Cano away please!
9. Brett Gardner (CF)

Posted by: aguirrem2 | September 22, 2008 at 09:51 PM

aguirrem,

A few points I disagree with. Firstly, I think it is a lot to expect Coke to work out of the rotation. I know he was a starter in the minors, but he's been lights out in the pen, and we badly need a good lefties in the pen. I'm not sure how his arsenal translates to being a successful big league starter.

I think its also a big assumption to assume that Aceves is good enough to hold a spot all year. He's certainly showed a lot of promise, but he's more of a question mark then a lot of other guys.

Joba in the pen...? WHY? The guy is promising to be the next Clemens and you guys want him in the pen? When someone with that kind of talent has four legitimate major league pitches, YOU PUT HIM IN THE ROTATION. Do you want Joba talent for 60 innings, or 200? I know he can't hit 200 innings in 2009 anyway due to inning limits, but he should be working out of the rotation regardless.

Hughes working out of the pen? No way! If Hughes is not in the regular 2009 starting rotation, then he should be in AAA getting regular starts and working on his change up, his cutter, and continuing to refine the command on his fastball and curveball. Hughes in the pen is a BAD idea.

If Ponson is in pinstripes next year, I will cry.

So you want to trade away Cano (an all-star second baseman who is still a MONSTER, off-year or not) for who? And Cody Ransom is our plan B? If a AAAA infielder is out contingency plan, then I suggest keeping Cano.

I do agree with letting Gardner play center. From what I've seen, his defense saves runs, and his speed on the base paths wins games. He is historically slow to adapt to a new level in the hitting department, so be patient with him. No, he's probably not our permanent option, but I think he can do a good enough job to keep the seat warm for Austin Jackson. I think we could also sign Rocco Baldelli and give him a shot at winning the job assuming he stays healthy.

Posted by: jlemoine | September 22, 2008 at 10:10 PM

So, my rotation looks more like this:

Wang
FA (Burnette, CC, Sheets, or other)
Joba
Mussina
Hughes/Aceves/Rasner/Wright/Kennedy/who ever can win the job in spring training. As soon as whoever that is falters, we have a lot of back up options for the #5 spot.

And my lineup is more like this:

Damon - LF
Jeter - SS
Nady - RF
A-Rod - 3B
Matsui - DH
Posada - C
Cano - 2B
_____ - 1B
Gardner - CF

First base can be manned by Matsui as needed (if Posada needs to DH), or Posada can play 1B. Damon has even said he wouldn't mind playing first if he needed to. With those guys occasionally playing first and Miranda on the bench to platoon with on occasion, I think we can get by.

That said, if we can't land a top tier starter, I think we need to make a play for Teixeira. I really think the Yankees should handle this offseason by sticking to the youth movement (don't trade them all away) but at the same time making one big FA splash. Just one. Losing the draft pick isn't a huge deal, because we pick one up when we let Abreu walk. This way we stick to the youth movement, which will pay large dividends soon, and at he same time you give the 2009 Yankees a legitimate chance at contention.

Posted by: jlemoine | September 22, 2008 at 10:22 PM

Astros's 2009

1. Oswalt
2. *Sheets*
3. **Pettitte**
4. Moehler or Backe
5. Rodriguez

Can you WHAM BAM thank you ma'am! I think it would be better than the cubbies by far.

Posted by: Schnard | September 22, 2008 at 10:56 PM

Yeah, 4 injury prone starters is a great idea for a rotation.

Posted by: ksesxe | September 22, 2008 at 11:38 PM

The Juice--I'm no Yankee fan (far from it), but IF the Giants were in the mood to trade Cain, the Yankees could put together a good package for him.

Posted by: aap212 | September 23, 2008 at 12:44 AM

Anyone else thinking it's kinda sad that for the Mariners to sign the top prospect they have to be put into the history books as the most inefficient team of all time? Never before has a team that started off the season paying $100M ended up losing 100 games or more. The other side of that, even if the Nats win the race to the bottom... odds are they wouldn't draft Strasburg because they wouldn't pay his bonus (Is Strasburg a Boras client?).

As for David Bowie's suggested rotation... I still don't think it beats the Cubs. And I'm betting Pettitte doesn't return to the Astros.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | September 23, 2008 at 05:58 AM

I don't see Pettitte signing with the Astros unless the Yankees flat out don't want him.

Posted by: Mike Simms | September 23, 2008 at 08:31 AM

start_wearing_purple- I'm 99% sure Strasburg is represented/"advised" by Boras.

Cain doesn't go to the Yankees unless Austin Jackson is wearing orange and black. No joke.

baseballismylyf4- I was joking. :-) Of course, if Strasburg really wanted to go to SD, he could just announce that he would refuse to sign with Seattle/Washington. But, the biggest payday will probably be Seattle, and he is advised by Boras, so he probably won't.

Posted by: melonis rex | September 23, 2008 at 08:36 AM

I am kind of hoping the Pirates get either Strasburg (highly unlikly) Green or ackley but we need some help from the Nats who I think are going to draft a "cost efficent" player.

Posted by: BucSox | September 23, 2008 at 01:01 PM

I know all Yankee fans will hate me for this but I honestly don't think Joba's arm can hold up for a 200 inning season the way he pitches I think that he should be groomed to take over for Mariano. That being said I guess next year will be the ultimate test for his arm.

Posted by: BucSox | September 23, 2008 at 01:04 PM

"(NOTE: All the stupid Yankee haters, don't even think about commenting on how the Yankees farm teams suck. In case you missed it...their AAA AND AA teams just won Championships vs Bostons & Tampa's "oh so magnificant" farm teams. They were ranked #5 this year in MLB)"

I'm not a yankee hater but I would like to point out that there is a difference between a "prospect" and a AAAA ball guy the Yankees have both for sure but they seem to have more of the latter.

PS: I really do like Austin Jackson a lot and I was praying he was in the Nady/Marte Deal.

Posted by: BucSox | September 23, 2008 at 01:09 PM

So what would the Yanks be willing to offer for Cain? Give me some suggestions...

Posted by: The Juice | September 23, 2008 at 03:45 PM

jlemoine:
I hear what you are saying, and I would love nothing more than to see Joba as a Starter, but the problem is that tendinitis says something about him being a starter, I think that he could go either way, starter or reliever. All I'm saying is that knowing the Yankee management and how they operate, they're gonna strain Joba too much (hopefully they don't) as for the Hughes in the pen thing, yeah I guess it would be better to have him in AAA, as for him in the rotation? I dont know... I know he has talent, I like his personality and when its good, I like his pitching, but there's something, that gives me a wierd feeling about him being in the rotation, maybe its 0-4 and like a near 8.0 ERA, I know numbers arent everything but I still think we should have shiped him or better yet Kennedy for Santana. Phil Coke as a starter? I think he has it in him, but lets face it, our starting rotation needs more help than the pen. Aceves, I think he can make it as a starter, he's pretty good and has very nice composure (unlike some OTHER prospects *kennedy*)
The whole Cano thing? thats me being me... I just think that he NEEDS to get better FAST! he has to be hitting ATLEAST .290 if not more.... and hitting consistently not just in august. and his swing needs to stop being that lazy mess that it is, it needs to have more pop in it. and his fielding, I think that after his benching last week (or two weeks ago) he has gotten better but I find him to lazy in every aspect, batting and fielding (I know I'll get burnt for saying this but it is true, I'm not expecting him to be another Jeter, all I'm saying is would it kill him to TRY!)
As for Ponson, I think he's not that bad pitching, not great but not bad, I'd say sign him to a minors contract and see how that pans out.

as for the Garnder in Center, I think that Gardner might have the talent to play there in the long run, because lets face it Damon is here for another 2-3 years at best (he's not getting any younger) and Abreu is also here another 2-4 years tops. So I think Gardner should play in CF until Jackson comes up, and then Gardner might move over to Left, he's really an amazing player, defensively and after some time he's pretty good offensively too, plus when you have as much speed as he does..... he deserves a roster spot somewhere.

and let me stress that I would like to see Joba as a starter (Clemens was my favorite pitcher growing up... but well... that's another story *steroids* ahem) but all I'm saying is spend some more time in converting him into a starter, the only problem is then who will take over Mo's place when he leaves(which hopefully will be never)? Edwar Ramirez was a closer in minors, and I like his stuff, but I think he just doesn't even begin to compare to Mo, and while Joba wouldn't be another Mo (nobody could) he could be another Goose....

Posted by: aguirrem2 | September 23, 2008 at 04:38 PM

With Burnett likely to stay in toronto now, and sabathia not looking too great either, though i'm not sure i agree with the decision, I think they will keep both moose and pettite. They may "go get" ben sheets but i wouldn't rely my 5 guy on being hughes or rasner or any of those younger pitchers. None have proven themselves consistent. Besides that the injury plague WILL strike again, and having guys that can hold the rotation down such as a mussina or pettite is very important. They key to the Sox success has been the depth of the rotation. It gives the older pitchers time to heal properly and the younger pitchers no pressure opportunities to succeed.

Not only that but posada has come out and said "Joba is not a starter." No one knows the pitchers better than the man catching them. He sees joba in a setup or closer role. he's not gonna punch guys out at 100mph as a starter for long. his arm will go, as will his shoulder and back.

Both pettite and mussina will be in pinstripes next year

rotation:
sheets
wang
mussina
Pettite
FA pitcher.

Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | September 24, 2008 at 02:58 PM

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Odds and Ends: Hawkins, Pettitte, Strasburg

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