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Phillies Payroll Situation
We'll get into this more when we do an offseason outlook for the Phillies in a few weeks. But Jim Salisbury's column on the team's '09 payroll commitments deserves an early look.
Salisbury computes that the Phillies will have over $100MM committed just to retain current under-contract and arb-eligible players. Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, and others will receive large raises.
Jamie Moyer and Pat Burrell are free agents. Moyer seems likely to re-sign for $8-10MM, but Burrell is a question mark. The Phillies don't like the idea of giving Burrell a third year, which he could easily find on the open market.
Burrell may leave, but Salisbury doesn't see the Phillies bringing in Manny Ramirez, Matt Holliday, Raul Ibanez, or Milton Bradley to replace him for various reasons. Magglio Ordonez might be available, but he's basically under contract for three years at $48MM. And the Phils would have to send useful players to Detroit. More affordable options the Phillies can consider include Casey Blake and Juan Rivera.
Salisbury also says the Phillies need to add a setup man this winter. With Brian Fuentes intent on closing, they'll need to dig through a lesser tier of free agent relievers.
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I think the Phillies should move Howard soon. Pretty much all of his value lies in his sheer power, because if he's not hitting homers then he's a .240/.340 hitter who strikes out more than any hitter ever.
He's the kind of player who won't age kindly and he's already nearly 29. He's just getting more and more expensive and soon his price tag will exceed the value of what he's capable of offering.
If they could land a young stud third baseman or outfielder as well as some pitching in a deal for Howard that would be what I'd do.
A lot of this depends on if the Brewers are actually wililng to move Prince Fielder, because if they are then most teams will be in on him and Teixeira rather than Howard.
Posted by: scribbletone | September 22, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Yeah I think that the Phils will seriously ponder moving Howard...especially if they can retain Burrell. Even if they lose out on Burrell though, trading Howard would open up enough money to land a top notch starter like CC, Sheets, or Burnett to go along with Hamels at the front end of that rotation. Even without Howard that's still a pretty solid offense. Add a guy like Blake or maybe Atkins to replace Howard and the Phils could still be a World Series team in the NL....
Posted by: Hermie13 | September 22, 2008 at 01:03 PM
The phillies need to give Cole Hamels the money he deserves... I am against the resigning of Pat the bat, because we will offer him a similar contract to what he has know, and I see him putting up worse numbers than he is now. As for Howard, he is the face of the organization: we see him on subway commercials, Vitamin water build boards, etc.. although he strikes outs a lot and has a poor average, he does lead the league in rbis and hr... but those are more likely influenced by the park and the talent around him. I am not dissing Howard's play or criticizing him; I am a big fan of his. I see a trade in the future, but not now, because we are so close to a world series, and we shouldn't just trade him a way right now.
Posted by: prov1x41 | September 22, 2008 at 01:18 PM
1. Trade Howard for a starter
2. Sign Burrell to play 1B
3. Sign Ibanez to play LF
Posted by: viktor06 | September 22, 2008 at 02:52 PM
I like the idea of moving Howard before he's paid more than he's worth. Resign Burrell to play first and go after a lesser free agent outfielder. I think Juan Rivera would be a good option in that park, considering how little it's going to take to sign him and the upside he might have. Ibanez doesn't thrill me, he's okay but I think he's a little overrated, though I don't watch the Mariners much so maybe he's not. Seems like there are better options than him though, for the money.
If the Phils do trade Howard, they absolutely need to trade him for pitching. Seems like they never have enough, though they aren't doing so bad this year. Is Myers going to be okay next year? When will Moyer start to break down? Kendrick isn't much of an option. Hamels may not be around forever. Just seems like a tenuous rotation and they'd be wise to start finding some replacements, and if they're going to trade someone of Howards stature they should be able to get some good pitching in return.
Posted by: pageian | September 22, 2008 at 03:05 PM
But do we really need a starting pitcher? Recently I think our pitching has been great: Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton. Happ deserves a spot in the rotation. When Moyer decides to retire, Carlos Carrasco should be ready to join the rotation. I believe Myers does say he prefers to close, and he is a free agent after the 2009 season.
If Myers wants to leave, we should trade him to a team that needs a closer for a prospect or two. If we need to trade Howard, why not trade him to the yankees and grab Cano and/or Melky and Hughes for him ? We could move Utley to 1st; I'm not familiar with Cano's defense though. Our pitching becomes better, but do we lack hitting?
Posted by: prov1x41 | September 22, 2008 at 03:24 PM
"If that's not enough for the Giants, offer Jason Donald and maybe another prospect to the deal. If it doesn't work, then they could trade him to the Yankees for Phil Hughes, if available."
Not a bad idea though I think the Yankees would like a right handed bat more, though that may change next year. Anyone know how far the right field fence is going to be from home plate in the new stadium? Are they keeping the dimensions the same as the old stadium? If so Howard could fit right in there.
Posted by: pageian | September 22, 2008 at 03:25 PM
yes the dimensions in the new stadium are identical to the old one...
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | September 22, 2008 at 03:53 PM
Myers prefers to close, but that doesn't mean he should close. Team has him under contract, team picks where he is most valuable, which is obviously the rotation. If a pitcher can start effectively, you don't put him in the pen unless its an injury issue.
Hamels-Myers-Moyer-Blanton-Happ/Carrasco/Kendrick. Decent rotation right there.
Of course, who wants to bet Carrasco gets traded to fill 3B? It looks like such a Pat Gillick move, and Amaro looks like Gillick Part Deux.
Ryan Howard in the AL would break some records. It would be entertaining.
Posted by: melonis rex | September 22, 2008 at 04:33 PM
To be honest with you, I would like to see Ryan Howard in a lineup with minimal protection, not playing in CBP. How much would his numbers drop off, if any?
A trade of Howard out of that bandbox would be very nice in assessing performance, since Howard is an interesting specimen.
Posted by: melonis rex | September 22, 2008 at 04:36 PM
"if by so close to the world series you mean two years of relying on the Mets getting massacred by injury and a terrible bullpen, ok."
I don't agree with this one bit, friend. Ok, their penwas horrible this year, and they have had their injuries, but so have the Phils. In the past 2 years, the following Phils have spent a good chunk of time off the MLB roster.....defending-MVP Jimmy Rollins, future-MVP Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Shane Victorino, Brett Myers, Tom Gordon, and Ryan Howard. The Mets did blow it last year, yeah. But the Phils took advantage of it by their killer September. That's why they're close to being a WS team. .560 baseball in September wouldn't have gotten them in the playoffs last year. .700 baseball in September did.
Posted by: Tilbrouck | September 22, 2008 at 05:52 PM
"if by so close to the world series you mean two years of relying on the Mets getting massacred by injury and a terrible bullpen, ok."
I don't agree with this one bit, friend. Ok, their penwas horrible this year, and they have had their injuries, but so have the Phils. In the past 2 years, the following Phils have spent a good chunk of time off the MLB roster.....defending-MVP Jimmy Rollins, future-MVP Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Shane Victorino, Brett Myers, Tom Gordon, and Ryan Howard. The Mets did blow it last year, yeah. But the Phils took advantage of it by their killer September. That's why they're close to being a WS team. .560 baseball in September wouldn't have gotten them in the playoffs last year. .700 baseball in September did.
Posted by: Tilbrouck | September 22, 2008 at 05:54 PM
Please don't resign Burrell unless in's for a 2 year contract,i'm laughing at the people that say resign Burrell and trade Howard because Burrell isn't gonna replace Howards power what did he do before Howard came up?Nothing...Now i think we need to start talking long term with Howard on like a 6 year contract because if we let him go we will suffer.
Posted by: JT89 | September 23, 2008 at 02:47 PM
Manny to Philly would be a excellent fit, however, not very realisitic. With Jaime Moyers' 6.5 million, Tom Gordons' 5.5 million and Pat Burrells' 14. 5 million that should be enough to lure "Man-Ram" to Citizen bank Park. The Phillies are in need of a big consistant bat, a left fielder and a right handed hitter in the front of the line up. The way it looks is it would cost about 25 million, but his defense is well mediocre at best. There is a age factor and also the Phillies brass aren't always the most willing to make investments on anything but pitching. Ryan Howard will end up in arbitration who will probably want 15-20 million. After all he might be a two time MVP, a former Rookie of the Year winner, a Home Run Derby Champ, and, oh yeah, just came off leading the NL in RBI's and HR's. Hard to argue with the guy. If the Phillies are willing to spend anywhere between 40 and 50 million dollars this year to upgrade the back to back winning NL division champs, well more power to them. Literally. But lets not forget about the gleaming hole in the rotation that Jaime Moyer will probably be leaving. Lets assume Moyer gets a ring around his finger, The Phillies will again be looking for a starting Pitcher. My opinion, they need a two or a three. Cole Hamels has matured into diamond status and if Brett Myers continues to be the ferocious fire breathing dragon he's been since the all star break, the Phillies have a good one, two punch. Joe "the work horse" Blanton is a solid four, who no doubt will be improved after picking up on the NL hitters and going though training camp with the Phils. Kyle Kendrick is emerging a solid five with big upside. The Phillies do have some young prospects Pat Gillick can get creative with, J.A. Happ, Greg Golson, and Lou Marson. That wont be getting a Jake Peavy or Matt Cain but it might get you a Alex Rios? type just floating that... Good bat, good speed, good defense, wont break the bank. That leaves a starting pitcher, a left handed set-up man, and re-signing Tadahito Iguchi and the 4 million he will want. As a philly fan this pains me to say but wouldn't Gavin Floyd be nice right now to plug into that three spot? It leads me to speculate just where the Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd trade will rank in the Philly all time bonehead moves. Even worse we can't even blame Ed Wade. If the Gavin Floyd deal was 1. Then no doubt the "1a" would be the Adam Eaton signing. Still, the past is the past, and Floyd is looking better and better for the future. If Im the Philles, my first priority is sign Pat Gillick. The guy has restored and energized the organization. The next thing is I lock Howard up long term. Depending on money go from there
Posted by: Justwin83 | October 02, 2008 at 01:11 AM
First of all, Ryan Howard has gotten better at each level he has been. He's a keeper. I think giving Pat The Bat a 3 year deal is a mistake. Two years, or bye bye. I used to think the Phillies needed to go out and get a top line pitcher for next year. I think J. A. Happ should be a nice fit there. The kid catcher should be ready to go next year giving the team offense to go with the glove. Now, they only have a glove behind the plate. Just one persons opinion..
Posted by: DadsInSoFl | October 28, 2008 at 07:21 PM