Massarotti On The Red Sox

I think they need to find a 1st baseman like tex or a impact 3rd baseman to replace lowell.. its too bad he cant stay healthy cuz he has thrived in boston..doubles, homers, big hits..

not much of a need for a Huge starter but adding sum1 like Lowe or perhaps burnett if hes availible and interestedin a 2 or 3 year deal

I'm all for trading Lowell. I really think that will be the biggest obstacle from getting Tex. The Yankees have pitching as their #1 priority even though they value his skills.

I thougt Mass's lineup was a little whack.

Lineup:

1. Ellsbury
2. Pedroia
3. Tex
4. Papi

Alright I have a question to Sox fans. Is this a good place to put your $? Youk and Lowell are for sure above league average at 1B/3B combined. And during interleague play they move Ortiz to 1B. So you have no where to put Ortiz during interleague play on the road if you have Tex.

So my question is the output from a Tex/Youk 1B/3B combo worth the extra cash (where you could put elsewhere) and taking 10 games from Ortiz more than the output over Youk/Lowell?

UCSDPadsFan, this would be a HUGE upgrade not only for this year, but also the upcoming seasons.

Isn't Tex only 28?

What wouldn't make sense in my opinion, is to trade Bay and a pitching prospect (Clay or Bowden?) for Holliday.

Theo will make a splash. If you look at his comments last year, he was very passive, he wanted to fill a few holes but not make a huge move. He didn't have this kind of extra money to make a move.

Of course if the Twins had worked something out with the Sox then he would have signed Santana to an extension.

This year, knowing the realistic chances that Ortiz could quite possibly never return to form and Mike Lowell coming off hip surgery, Theo would not be doing his job to not look at a player of Mark Teixeiras status.

Let's not forget that "Trade Julio Lugo" is on Theo's to-do list, as well.

Dice-K isn't an ace...he's #3

I doubt Byrd will be back and the same with Kotsay. Who knows about Coco at this point.

Also one of Masterson/Bowden/Buchholz will most likely hold the 5th rotation spot.

I think it's more likely the Yanks land CC since all they have to give up for him is cash. And wouldn't you prefer Teagarden over Salty?

As a Sox fan, I don't think they should sign Teixeira. First of all, Lowell doesn't have trade value until he proves healthy, and when he does he becomes an asset to us more than other teams because of how well he hits in Fenway.

Second, we have the ultimate cheap insurance plan that no one knows about for Ortiz and Lowell, named Chris Carter. We got him for Wily Mo Pena, and he has hit well in AAA for 3 years now, and is under 26. He lacks a defensive position, but can play 1st base or LF, and can certainly DH.

If we sign Teixeira we also block our best position prospect in Lars Anderson, who reached AA this year. He could be ready perfectly in time in 2 years when Lowell and Youkilis reach free agency, and a Teixeira contract would take him well into his 30s, which is generally something the Red Sox try to avoid with long term contracts.

Pitching wins championships, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox sign Burnett to a 3 year deal with an option, even if it requires signing more per year, as high as $18MM or $19MM with an expensive buyout on the option.

Good luck trading Lowell at his age off hip surgery with 2 guaranteed years at 24 million and a no trade to waive.

What GM in his right mind would pay that salary and trade anything other than his own bigger salary problem for a guy who is injured undergoing a major surgical procedure?

Here are the players you can trade an injured Lowell for this off season -- Juan Pierre, Gary Matthews Jr., Andruw Jones and Barry Zito.

The White Sox couldn't get a fair offer for an quasi-injured Crede last season and his salary was low and he only had 1 year guaranteed.

Besides, why would Lowell waive his no trade? He took less money and years to stay in Boston.

Texeira isn't going to Boston unless Theo tells Lowell he's a 12 million bench player and he's next year's Sean Casey.

GoSox,

Sorry but your lineup is flawed beyond reason. First Tex would bat 3rd, Ortiz 4th and Youk or Bay batting 5th and 6th, you pick. Also Masterson will be a setup guy for Paps. Masterson is not just some middle relief guy. Byrd will be elsewhere more than likely, hopefully Cora will not return and we can have Lugo as a supersub if nobody will take him. Plus the Rotation would be
1. Beckett
2. Lester
3. Dice-k
4. Lowe
5. Wake

P.S My friend told me about this site and love it so far. Yankee and Sox fans actually having legit debate unlike the ESPN boards where they just scream nonsense to piss you off.

You can't compare Joe Crede to Mike Lowell. Mike is a much better all around player. While Crede plays GG defense, so does Lowell, but Mike can actuall hit. And considering his surgery was much easier than expected, I wouldn't worry too much about moving Lowell (although they will have to eat some $ to do it). I'm also not worried about blocking Lars Anderson. He's still at least 1 full season away, and probably 2. By then you know more about Ortiz (and whether this year was an aberation or a trend) and can either replace Ortiz with Lars, or simply move Lars for another piece that we do need.

I can't buy into that Reds rumor. I don't see the Sox trading Youk so they can go sign a similar player (albeit with a higher ceiling) and pay him all that money when they have Youk at small money. It makes much more sense to move him to 3B.

This is one strange offseason for the Sox, I just don't know what they're going to do. It could be a huge offseason because of all the money they have freed up, but they don't really have many holes to fill.

And no to Randy Winn, thank you very much. Ellsbury is the CF.

yea thats all good and dandy but Lowell has a FNTC. Tex would be a great signing for anyone. 310 average 35 hrs 130 rbis and he trypically plays better down the stretch.

yanks09,

I was looking at contract size and for players involved.

Of course, we do have to consider no trade clauses for all players involved. I am unsure of Schmidt's injury status. For Martin, I agree it will cost a legit prospect or two, but to fill the catcher hole and make one in order to sign a bona fide hell of a ball player, sacrifices sometimes need to be made. I agree with everyone who says Theo will suprise us......Did we ever imagine to get Beckett prior to that offseason?

I agree Martin would be worth it but Theo seems hesitant to trade his young arms. Although this would be the most ideal situation to do so to get a very young catcher who would be behind the plate for the Sox for many years. If the Sox worked up a deal to send Lowell to LA I don't think he would create any problems....its not like he is going to a crap franchise in a crappy city hes going to the SoCal sun for a good young team that will continue to improve. I think he would embrace the role as mentor and thrive there.

Another possible solution for the Sox and their pressing need for a catcher...McCann. I don't know how open the Braves would be to trading him but it is no secret that the franchise loves young pitching and the Sox have plenty to offer.

Let's just call it like it is. At this point in time:

1. Mike Lowell has negative trade value. Just to move him the Sox will need to contribute substantial cash and/or additional players.

2. Lugo, similar situation to Lowell but even worse.

Any trade proposals that are built around acquiring players like Holliday or Martin SHOULD NOT include either of these two guys. Other teams are not interested in them. Lowell will need to prove he can come back from his hip injury. Anyone watching the series against the Angels saw a man that was extremely hobbled.

Finally, a team like the Dodgers would love to rid themselves of contracts for Jones and Schmidt. That doesn't mean that they will move their most prized possession to simply to get out from underneath a bad one year deal. If they move Martin (which I doubt they will) it will be for a huge haul. The idea that they would move Martin to unload one bad year of Schmidt's contract is totally out there.

One of the things I was looking at was CERA regarding stats....I think it is a true testament of the catcher's game calling. Martin is one of the best if that is how you evaluate that part of the game. Varitek is also another good one. So is Mauer. I doubt Mauer or McCann get moved as they are both "hometown" players...being from the area of the team they play for.

I don't mind them keeping Vtek. If that's all we can expect out of him, calling a good game, fine. Especially with all the great bats that would be in the lineup, with or without Tex. His averages the last three seasons were .238, .255, and .220. Can we really be that mad about his batting when he has a trend like that? I say shame on those who are out for Vtek's blood over that.....it should have been expected from the start!

So I guess what I'm saying in this long-winded post is, if they COULD get Martin...fabulous, otherwise, I'm up for another year or two of Vtek, if his game calling doesnt diminish and his contract isn't for as much $ wise as the last.

Getting Martin from the Dodgers? Are you kidding? Start with 3 of your top prospects and then add in another 2 lower level prospects. And by top prospects I mean Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Lowrie, Masterson types.

In other words, that deal will never happen.

You're not getting ANYTHING for Lowell until he proves he's healthy next spring.

And by that time, if he is healthy, the Sox will want to keep him.

Trading Youkilis is a more realistic idea since perhaps the Sox think the long term production of Tex vs. Youk leans more to Tex and Youk won't be worth the dollar commitment they are eventually going to have to make to him.

I don't agree with that though. I think Youkilis will never command Tex money and will be always close to him production wise.

Why would any team in need of a 3B trade for an aging Lowell (AND give up good prospects) with 2 years on his contract when there is Adrian Beltre, who has only one year left (and I believe is owed about the same $)and at this point can put up similar, if not better, overall numbers?

I don't think moving Crisp would be hard. He has a reasonable contract as a proven CF with good speed and glove. A couple of teams are in need for that kind of outfield help. As for Lowell, if he is healthy he has some value given the weak 3B market this year. He's a very good defender and can still do some damage with the bat, though a hitter's park might suite him better. Once Blake has signed and Beltre is moved, Lowell will look better...Sure trading Youk will get them a better deal in order to make room for Tex, so I can see them going in both directions (if they even want Tex)...
Martin and McCann will probably stay put. If they become available the Sox should be serious about getting a deal done and let Tek walk. It will cost a lot, but they will not cost anything in the range of Peavy. If that's not an option trade for Salty, keep Tek and let them work together for the next two years. Leave Laird in Texas.

You want to bring up Beltre? He's a lifetime .260 avg hitter WITHOUT his contract season with the dodgers? Lowell is a gold glover! If you want to sell a team on Beltre, let them take the cheaper version in Encarnacion! Lowell is a professional, hard worker and has been trhough hell and back with cancer. Beltre? Who do you think deserves the contract they have.....Beltre or Lowell?

Don't get so high and mighty on Lowell, he's another former juicer my friend.I'm just thinking the numbers Beltre put up in his last contract year shows he is willing to do whatever it takes to get that huge contract so he might be worth a flyer for one year. Anyway, you can have Derrek Lee from the Cubs any time you want him, just give us Crisp and another player...

"GoSox,

Sorry but your lineup is flawed beyond reason. First Tex would bat 3rd, Ortiz 4th and Youk or Bay batting 5th and 6th, you pick. Also Masterson will be a setup guy for Paps. Masterson is not just some middle relief guy. Byrd will be elsewhere more than likely, hopefully Cora will not return and we can have Lugo as a supersub if nobody will take him. Plus the Rotation would be
1. Beckett
2. Lester
3. Dice-k
4. Lowe
5. Wake
"

That is simply what i would do as a manager, not what i think they will do.

I dont have any faith in beckett, and i think a #1 starter should be able to pitch as deep into the game as any pitcher on the staff (aka dice k can make it deeper into the game than anyone else on the sox on average...)

And my lineup is like that because im a firm believer in the L/R/L/R so on...

assuming at least pedroia gets on, hopefully papi can improve and knock him in, or if not, i beleive youk will be their most consistant hitter (besides ped. and if not, we have a huge #5 hitter to take an AB assuming they make it to him via walk or hit)

"By Jason Bay's agent, shouldn't you just go on and say Boras? Or has Bay changed agents for some inexplicable reason?"

Bay's agent isn't Boras. Joe Urbon at Octagon represents Bay.

"You want to bring up Beltre? He's a lifetime .260 avg hitter WITHOUT his contract season with the dodgers? Lowell is a gold glover! If you want to sell a team on Beltre, let them take the cheaper version in Encarnacion!"

Look, every one here knows I am not a big Beltre fan, but at least get your facts straight. Beltre is himself a gold glove defensive player. His offensive game has a ton of holes, particularly his OBP, but his defense is without question.

"Why would any team in need of a 3B trade for an aging Lowell (AND give up good prospects) with 2 years on his contract when there is Adrian Beltre, who has only one year left (and I believe is owed about the same $)and at this point can put up similar, if not better, overall numbers?"

BaseballGuru, is that you? Beltre will never put up better numbers than a healthy Lowell. His career season was an outlier, not the norm.

"Ship Lowell or Lugo + prospects to LAD for Martin and Schmidt."

Wow. You must be smoking a ton of really good stuff. If the Dodgers were stupid enough to trade Martin in the first place, the haul would have to be similar to what the Braves gave up for Tex or what Peavy is going to command. You would be talking about 4 years of team control because Martin is a Super 2 of a 25 year old with the skill set of a Pudge Rodriguez and a much better batting eye.

GoSox: You don't actually watch the Red Sox do you? You're trying to justify Daisuke as being the ace because he pitches deep into games? Daisuke averaged the FEWEST innings pitched per start of Beckett, Lester, Wakefield and himself. Beckett averaged 2 outs per start more than Daisuke and Lester was just shy of that mark.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have Daisuke...but 3 out of 4 starts he'll just give you 5 good (but nerve wracking) innings.

"I would take 1/12 for Beltre over 2/24 for Lowell any day of the week. Of course, if Lowell bounces back I might reconsider. That can't happen until spring training, at the earliest. No way someone gambles on him in the off-season."

I'm totally agree about Beltre being a better target than Lowell. They are probably about equals as outstanding third baseman, but I just think that the odds that Lowell seriously bounces back and hits well the next two years aren't too good. He should be able to produce an OPS around .800 which with outstanding defense makes him extremely valuable, but I just think that Beltre is a better bet because his contract is just one year. I guess it depends on what you're long term plan is for third base.

""Ship Lowell or Lugo + prospects to LAD for Martin and Schmidt.""

Come on. What kind of prospects are those guys going to be then? Buchholz? Anderson? Bowden? Reddick? If the Dodgers decide to move Russell Martin it's going to be for a huge haul, and there is no way that they deal him and take back a high priced contract like Lowell or Lugo.

"Martin and McCann will probably stay put. If they become available the Sox should be serious about getting a deal done and let Tek walk. It will cost a lot, but they will not cost anything in the range of Peavy. If that's not an option trade for Salty, keep Tek and let them work together for the next two years. Leave Laird in Texas."

Uhh.. adding Brian McCann or Russell Martin would cost at least as much as it will take to land Peavy, and possibly more. Those are the two best catchers in the NL, and both are young, cheap, have a good amount of time before free agency, and shouldn't seriously decline for a while. Catchers like those two are very special commodities, and it will assuredly cost you more than you'd be willing to pay to land McCann or Martin.

I do think that the Red Sox should look into adding Saltalamacchia though. His defense and game calling abilities are his biggest issues, so if they could land him (Salty for Bowden/Tejada?) and pair him with Varitek for a year or two, I think Salty could very easily be their catcher of the future.

"I do think that the Red Sox should look into adding Saltalamacchia though. His defense and game calling abilities are his biggest issues, so if they could land him (Salty for Bowden/Tejada?) and pair him with Varitek for a year or two, I think Salty could very easily be their catcher of the future."

I'm generally in favor of Salty as well...but the biggest problem i can see with that is Wakefield. I can't really see a reason why the Sox wouldn't exercise Wakefield's option again, and if they do then who catches Wakefield? Varitek catching Wake hasn't worked in the past and are we really gonna trust a defensive question mark (Salty) to catch Wake?

Couldn't agree more scribble. The Sox should have the Rangers on speed dial. Really, between the 4 catchers they have the Sox should be able to find some appropriate match.

Also agree with Wake. You can't base your starting catching situation off a 5th starter who will be less and less relevant as time goes on.

scribble, salty has a bum elbow and has already been played at 1st by two mlb teams... does he really project long term as a catcher?

Teagarden makes the most sense for the Red Sox. Salty probably has the highest trade value, and my understanding is that Max Ramirez has the highest offensive ceiling. However, it sounds like Teagarden is more polished than Ramirez.

Laird really isnt that great of an option. He seems like a temporary fix and I think its good for organizations to keep the same catcher around for a long time & really get to know the pitching staff. What would the Sox have to give up? How does Josh Reddick and Daniel Bard sound?

Teagarden has the most trade value and therefore won't be moved. His defense is quite good and his bat projects to be above average as well. Salty has serious questions about whether he'll stick behind the plate and while he's still a quality chip, Teagarden is likely the most valuable catcher.

"I would take 1/12 for Beltre over 2/24 for Lowell any day of the week. Of course, if Lowell bounces back I might reconsider."

Lowell is the much better overall player and can probably be had with salary support and for a lower price in players. If he is healthy for 130 games next year, that would be a huge contribution

"Heres an idea..
sign josh bard..?
hes now a free agent"

He isn't much defensively and his offense really declined.

"Heres an idea..
sign josh bard..?
hes now a free agent"

Josh Bard's defensive game is poor to put it mildly and that is not just limited to catching Wake;s knuckler. He does have a decent bat, with the exception oh his last injury filled year.

I think that what many here are not taking into consideration in the Beltre-Lowell trade value, is that other than Crede, those 2 are the premium (sorry Casey Blake) ones that could possibly be available if the Sox did sign Tex and if Seattle does either not trade beltre, or if the Dodgers/Twins do not get him, that both of those teams REALLY need a 3rd baseman and Lowell is a major upgrade at that position for both those teams.

Not many harder playing and hustling ballplayers out there either and if he were to be traded, would doubt that Boston be willing to pick up much (if any) of his salary as they would be in the case of Lugo where they will be at the mercy of the team possibly acquiring him.

Lowell gives power, RBI production, good BA avg, good OBP, and a GG defense to any team acquiring him and as anyone that has watched him watched him play either in the past, post season witnessed he will play in pain.

Probably better of attempting to get Laird from the Rangers of the 3 catchers that they have available if the Sox go that route. The Sox have Exposito in Low A ball whom may be ready in 2-3 years and drafted 3 catchers in the 1st 10 rounds this year to potentially address this problem.

Giving up 2-3 blue chip prospects for Salty may be too much, when 1 + maybe a lesser could get laird.

Anyone who could afford Tex and can fit him into the lineup (any team should be able to fit him into the lineup) should look seriously at signing him. I'm not a huge fan of his and he's not the greatest ever, that said players like him are harder and harder to find on the free agent market. He's cheap, durable, very good hitter, gold glove.... Any team would be better off with him in the lineup. I expect the Yankees and Red Sox to end up in a bidding war for him.

lowell... a juicer....what..? he is one of if not the most respectable players in the league..id bet my life plus all yours to say he never took PED's

This is a great board!

Here's my comments on the Sox offseason:

1) I gave it a lot of thought and think signing Tex is one of the two top priorities this offseason. Tex is a mad-stat, gold-glove, switch-hitting first baseman with power and even a little speed. He's the kind of player you build a team around. He's still relatively young and is going to be THE offensive player on the market this year with the exception of Manny and (if he becomes available) Holliday.

While I don't endorse the Sox spending big money on a bunch of players (I felt the Lowell extension was a mistake, as was the signing of Lugo - aka SS money pit move #4, and never thought the Drew deal was a good one), Tex is a "once in a 3-4 year" opportunity, imo. We should make the move and worry about how to work the rest out later.

2) Catcher - This is very tricky. We can get caught up in the same 'nostalgia' we did with Schilling and Lowell, offering them a lot of cash because of what they did for the ball club in the past. I think Tek should be re-signed to a short term deal only, 1-2 years MAX, with incentives and perhaps options. Since the catcher market is not that great, it'd be a little foolish, imo, to rid of Varitek this year. Add to that our weak catcher prospects.

The obvious question to ask is 'do we make the move for our catcher of the future now or later'? I do think our best bet for this year is one of the Rangers' catchers considering they have four of them. I have little preference between Salty and Teagarden except to say that Salty certainly hurt his trade value from his performance this year. If the upside is evaluated as very good however, make the move.

3) You can never have too much pitching, but I'm not hip on overspending for Burnett, Lowe, or any of the top 5 pitchers on the market. We have an enviable top 3 in Beckett, Dice-K, and Lester. I think the $4 million option on Wake is a no-brainer. Really, that's so much value in today's market.

Beyond that, we need to look at who are our #5 and backup starters. Buchholz, Bowden, and Masterson will be part of that mix I'd assume. The trade value on Buchholz is down quite a bit and I'm sure people will worry he's the next 'Hansen' of the organization. But don't forget he was considered by many as a top 3 rookie of the year prospect in 2008. Either we ride that wave into 2009 and start him or we perhaps trade him for another underachiever like Salty or Towles.

FA-wise, I see the Sox going after cheap talent like they did with Colon and Byrd. There will be "#3 type" pitchers out there for sure for cheap.

4) Decide on Coco. As much as I'd like to keep Coco, his trade value is much higher now than it ever was. He'll make good trade bait either for a catcher, starting pitching, or as a package deal.

5) Sign Bay, but do it later. I really like Bay, but I also like to see players work for their contract extension. :-)

6) Relief pitching? Dare I say we need not make this a priority beyond certain minor strategic moves?

7) Lowell, Lugo, and Cora. Assuming we've signed Tex, we have to figure out what to do with our infield. I think everyone would give preference at this point to Pedroia and Youk. Lowrie played very well and would be most Sox fans' preference at short. That leaves the obvious problem of what to do with Lowell and Lugo.

Here's my take. Release Cora, keep Lugo. Lugo is this year's Coco. I don't think anyone will take him, but releasing him this year will likely be a total salary dump. Make Lugo our platoon infielder (didn't Lugo play a little 2nd at one point) along with Lowrie who can play 3rd. As for Lowell, he has to be traded. And despite his injury, he'll have some trade value to teams looking for a 3B. We'll have to take a salary dump hit I'm sure (which is why I don't advocate both Lugo and Lowell).

8. Hold on Papi. Give him a chance to heal and see what he offers next year. No need to rush a guy like Lars. I anticipate good things for Papi next year, but let's be real, the guy doesn't play the field. If the only thing he can offer the team next year is 120 healthy games of .280/25/90, there comes a point where he'll be replaceable.

9. Keep the "youth corps" going strong. From everything I've read, we have one of the stronger farm systems in the league. And I think many agree we owe a lot of our success the last two years on our young players. I think our philosophy going forward should be to keep trading that young talent away at a minimum. Sometimes it pays off, to get that 'key player'. It worked with the Hanley for Beckett/Lowell trade even though we gave up a big chip, but I'm thankful we didn't make 3 or 4 more of those moves that would have cost us the likes of Lester, Papelbon, Youk, and Pedroia.

10. Go Sox! :-)

- Sean