Offseason Outlook: St. Louis Cardinals

There is a lot of talk about Renteria being back in the STL next year. They could probably swing him and Fuentes...

Rasmus is untouchable, obviously. If Rasmus is traded and the player coming in return isn't a star, STL fans need to riot in the streets.

Who else are potential prospect trade chips for the Cards?

I say focus on the SS hole first and then use leftover assets to add an arm.

Rent-a-Wreck might really click for the Cards. He'll come cheap due to his horrid season in Detroit.

Fuentes might make sense if they want a proven "closer" type, as would a trade for Huston Street or BJ Ryan (when finances make sense, Street makes the most sense of the 3 and he's pretty much a lock to be traded this offseason).

Or, go the other way, and pick up 1-2 Brocail/Herges/Affeldt/Weathers types.

One question: Why isn't Jaime Garcia anywhere on your roster? I'd give him a crack at the rotation over Pineiro, with Pineiro starting in the pen. It's generally a smart idea to give your younger guys a chance to prove themselves, and make adequate moves if they falter.

@melonis

Jaime Garcia is having (or already had) a Tommy John on his pitching elbow. He's out for 2009.

"As for the pen, one of the biggest talents of LaRussa/Duncan for the last couple of years have been rolling out a pen full of names no one has heard of and still being fairly reliable"

If this was the case, the Cards would have been at least the wildcard this year.

How do Card fans feel about the Loshe signing? I think that deal could look questionable in a couple of years. The 4 years and 41 million dollars seem to fit market wise for the year he had. It is the backloaded part and especially the full no trade part I question. I guess Boras did his job.

I really don't think the Cardinals will go after Renteria at all. I have to think there is still some bad blood, in the front office, for the way Edgar left to sign with Boston. He claimed this and that, and in the end, signed for about $1M more per season. Lame.

He is also on the very, very steep downside of his career. I'd go after Furcal and maybe Cabrera, and if that fails, I'd go after a SS via trade. Zobrist, the guy from Cleveland, and there are a couple other options.

Just say no to Edgar.

My random thoughts:
Brendan Ryan will not play for us again. Barton will spend time in the minors. Itzy could be back and Izzy as well if cheap(both). I suspect free agents for LHRP. Another 'good' bat is a must, I just don't know from where, maybe Furcal if cheaper than reported here and elsewhere. I like Holliday if signed long term. Ankiel's injury is worrisome. Rasmus is not untouchable, IMO and as reported by Mozeliak. I'd like to see him gone if he can't produce soon. Anderson will not catch until he is seasoned, if at all(trade bait). Last year's #1 pick(forgot his name) should play at some point next year or at worst in 2010. I'm not a Rentaria fan. Cabrera would be nice but wants too much money and too many years to be feasible. Another starter would be nice, maybe Looper if reasonable(2years at 16M). I'm hoping Motte and/or Perez will step up(get another pitch) to save money. The bullpen must be fixed and we will probably have to overpay. Bring back Springer. I have become a Lopez fan, kinda(small sample size after resurgance). No to Hudson! Kennedy needs to go!

What I would like to see is a Furcal(healthy), Holliday, Lopez, LHRPs, and Looper signed. That is too much money though, but my wishlist.

I am anxious about next year but Mozeliak has impressed except at the deadline.

dep258s

Honestly my main concern for the Cardinals would be the rotation equally as much as closer and shortstop. Shortstop can be solved by adding Renteria or even a Berroa-type signing, the Cardinals need quality defense there or quality offense, they don't necessarily need both. The lineup proved to have more than enough firepower, the key is getting some speedy guys that can get on base in front of them, rather than having Skip Schumaker leadoff. I think one nice idea could be to shop Rick Ankiel for a leadoff hitter-type, use Schumaker in center, and then platoon Duncan and Barton in left until Colby Rasmus is ready, at which point Schumaker can be moved over again.

As for the rotation, my concern is that there just isn't enough depth. I think its unfair to expect Carpenter to be a top of the rotation guy next season, he's likely to perform more like a midrotation starter. Obviously they still have Adam Wainwright, so they have an ace even without Carp, but a 2-5 of Lohse, Carp coming off of surgery, Wellemeyer and Joel Piniero doesn't exactly scream contender to me. If I were the Cardinals, I would look into young pitchers who could potentially be moved and could pitch soon, like maybe one of the guys on the Athletics (Smith, Eveland, Gallagher, Gonzalez, etc.)

Schumaker's OBP was .002 points less than Ichiro and .006 points less than Granderson.

uggla to the cards for rasmus and a lower spec pitcherseems to make some sense.

gives the cards a 2 time all star with a nice bat at 2nd base gives the fish the corner OF they need

Trade Ryan Ludwick to the Giants for Matt Cain or work out a deal with the Royals for Grienke...The Cardinals do need another starter because who knows how healthy Chris Carpenter will be...I think they'll sign Fuentes too because they really need a closer.

(1) Trade Ankiel to the Yankees for Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke.

Ankiel has great power and a great arm, but he has had problems staying healthy since moving to the outfield. That said, the Yankees would love to get a lefty power bat that they could stick in CF, and I think they've soured a little on Kennedy being able to succeed in the AL East.

Schumaker had a nice, solid season, but his .302/.359/.406 line is better suited for CF than LF. He played CF when Ankiel was injured. Yet his bat isn't so great that you feel bad making him a really good 4th OF if Rasmus takes the job from him.

I think a nice match might be Ankiel to the Yankees for Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke. This would give the Cardinals rotation a lot more depth. Kennedy and Coke have both proven what they need to in the minors and are ready for shots in the majors. This gives the Cards 2 more arms with some upside to compete for rotation spots.

Trading Ankiel probably frees up another $5 million or something to use in free agency.

(2) Re-sign Felipe Lopez to 2 year, $8 million deal with a 3rd year option. Maybe go a little higher if necessary.

The sample size might be small, but I think they have to re-sign Lopez to play 2nd. He hit .385/.426/.538 with St. Louis (but only .234/.305/.314 with Washington). For whatever reason, he just couldn't hit at Nationals Park (.172/.257/.236), so he didn't actually do that poorly on the road when he was with the Nats. He is definitely more talented than he showed with Washington, although he is clearly not as good as his numbers with St. Louis. Still, he would provide some stability at 2nd base and has some good offensive potential outside Washington.

(3) Sign a big bat for LF.

I would love to see what Joe Mather could do over a full season, but I just don't think the Cards can afford to skip the big bats to give him the opportunity he deserves.

Manny might be a possibility, but I don't think I would want to take the chance on him "being Manny" again. Plus, he would take the rest of the budget.

Burrell is nice, but he is almost the exact same player as Dunn, but is 3 years older. Plus I think Burrell will cost more than Dunn this offseason because of Dunn's reputation of despising baseball to the core of his very being.

So take Dunn's consistent .240/.380/.520 production and stick him in front of Pujols. Hopefully his (probably undeserved) reputation knocks him down a few bucks. Maybe they can get him for 4 year, $60 million with a 5th year option. He has old player skills, but this only runs through his age 34 (or 35) season, which isn't too bad.

(4) This still leaves $10 million or so to fill the rest of the holes. I don't think they should blow their wad on Furcal. Nothing wrong with getting Izturis on another 1-year deal or maybe trying to get Renteria for 1 or 2 years. Another option might be trying to use Bryan Anderson to get a veteran SS like Jack Wilson. But I don't know that Wilson is so much better than Izturis or Ryan to make it worth giving up a good prospect.

Then go get a nice, consistent lefty reliever like Affeldt if the price is right. Don't sign a closer, maybe let Perez and Affeldt compete for the spot (Affeldt is equally good against lefties and righties). Say 3 years, $10 million or so for Affeldt, with some bonuses for games finished and maybe IP.

Lineup:
Schumaker
Dunn
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Molina
Izturis/Ryan
pitcher

Rotation:
Carpenter
Wainwright
Lohse
Wellemeyer
Pineiro
Kennedy/Coke/Todd

I think the offense is pretty good. Maybe you swap Dunn and Ludwick to break up the string of righties a little, but I like Dunn's OBP in front of Pujols a lot more than his K's behind Pujols.

The rotation has some depth, but a lot would depend on Carpenter's health. Hard to replace your ace if he goes down. Still, they would have a lot of options for the back of their rotation since Kennedy, Coke, and Todd are all in the high minors.

I think Affeldt would help stabilize the pen and they would be solid.

They would have a lot of OF depth with Duncan and Mather available to trade or start in case of injuries. If Mather can play 3rd (he was drafted as a SS), then keep him and hope he can start there when Glaus leaves after 2009.

We have an exciting future with Rasmus, Freese and Wallace. I know Freese and Wallace both play 3rd, but I hear they are having Brett play some outfield. That could be a bright future for the Cards.

and PTBNL

is phil coke now a pirates? i think he got traded in the nady trade?

On July 26, 2008, the New York Yankees acquired Nady and pitcher Dámaso Marté from the Pittsburgh Pirates for Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendorf, Dan McCutchen, and Jeff Karstens.

Nope, no Phil Coke.

mymrbig- That's why you add another piece into the trade, such as one of your young pitchers (Motte, Boggs, Todd, etc.) to sweeten the pot. Pitching is always in demand and the team is getting a reliable CF in Ankiel.

StLknows- If you're talking about the Lohse signing and waiting for Burnett or a better pitcher instead, I'd say it was a bad idea. If any of these young pitchers are ready, I'd like to see a Pineiro more to the pen.

Mymrbig: You are drastically overvaluing Kennedy and Coke. Kennedy is not major league ready and is not a major trade chip. Coke would be behind pitchers such as Perez, Motte, Kinney, Worrell, and therefore wouldn't really provide any value to the Cards. Coke and Kennedy might get you Skip Schumaker...but not Rick Ankiel.

Freese will only play 3rd, I bet. Wallace is being tried out in the outfield for a reason.