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« Mike Cameron's Option | Main | Baseball Blogs Weigh In: Greinke, Manny, Burnett »
Next up in the Offseason Outlook series, the Astros. Their likely 2009 commitments:
C - J.R. Towles - $400K
C - Humberto Quintero - $405K+
1B - Lance Berkman - $14.5MM
2B - Kaz Matsui - $5MM
SS - Miguel Tejada - $13MM
3B - Ty Wigginton - $4.35MM+
IF - Geoff Blum - $1.25MM
IF - David Newhan - $575K+
LF - Carlos Lee - $18.5MM
CF - Michael Bourn - $400K
RF - Hunter Pence - $400K
OF - Darin Erstad - $1.75MM
OF - Reggie Abercrombie - $400K
SP - Roy Oswalt - $14MM
SP - Wandy Rodriguez - $451K+
SP - Brian Moehler - $2.3MM
SP - Brandon Backe - $800K+
SP - Alberto Arias - $400K
RP - Jose Valverde - $4.7MM+
RP - Geoff Geary - $1.125MM+
RP - Tim Byrdak - $400K+
RP - Wesley Wright - $400K
RP - Fernando Nieve - $400K
RP - Chris Sampson - $401K
RP -
That's roughly $86MM committed, plus arbitration raises to Wigginton, Rodriguez, Backe, Valverde, Geary, and others. Those raises could put the team past $95MM. The Astros began the season at $88.9MM. Fortunately, GM Ed Wade has payroll flexibility this winter.
Wade will begin the offseason by attempting to re-sign Randy Wolf, Doug Brocail, and LaTroy Hawkins. That alone could result in '09 salaries of $15MM+. Then Wade might replace Quintero with a more established backup catcher, which could cost another million bucks. So we're looking at something around $110MM to keep the current group intact. It's hard to see the 'Stros plunking down an additional $10MM+ on another veteran starter.
It's possible to envision the pitching staff working out, but the offense is a question mark. Several factors needed for improvement: second-year success for Towles, more Matsui, Lee and Wigginton, and a higher batting average from Pence. Center field seems likely to remain an offensive void.
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"Wade will begin the offseason by attempting to re-sign Randy Wolf, Doug Brocail, and LaTroy Hawkins. That alone could result in '09 salaries of $15MM+."
I know they need this pitching depth, but wouldn't $15MM+ be better spent for this team on another front-line starter to join Oswalt. I think A.J. Burnett would fit that bill for them to have a dominant top 2 spots on the pitching staff.
Posted by: drchstrpunk | October 10, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Would someone like Johnny Estrada or Michael Barrett be a better catcher than JR Towles?
Posted by: bamabosoxfan | October 10, 2008 at 11:33 AM
where do you see "It's possible to envision the pitching staff working out, but the offense is a question mark" Wasn't it the offense that carried us to the second best record after the break? wasn't it the pitching that was almost dead last before the break? I know neither one are extraordinary but I would say (in my opinion) that unless pitching is analyzed this year, the pitching is in question. I am mostly happy with the offense with the exception of a tweak or two.
Posted by: AstrosCoverage.blogspot.com | October 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I have to agree with the TEEJ, stick Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee in the middle of an offense and you will score runs.
After Oswalt that pitching staff drops off quick...
Posted by: Andy Braves Fan | October 10, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Everything I have read on astros.com and chron.com has said that Q is the likely backup for a new addition unless Towles earns the job in Spring training. I'm not very confident he will be able to learn to hit the ball the other way in 1 offseason. I think he is destined for another year at AAA.
Posted by: trevordchi | October 10, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Oh an Backe is probably going to get non-tendered and I'd be surprised if Brocail is back. They will probalby offer him arbitration and let him walk so that they can gain the draft picks. I'd rather have 2 first rounders than another year of Brocail. He was good in the first half last year but I don't think he is worth 2 draft picks. He can be replaced.
Posted by: trevordchi | October 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM
So another year of Baby Bourn leading off/as the #8 hitter? (those two things should not be used to describe the same person
Im glad we traded Lidge for our pinch-runner of the future.
Posted by: Laputian | October 10, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Just as I feared ... Astros fans believe they are a good team despite the peripherals.
The Astros of 08 have a lot of close parallels to the Mariners of 07. Instead of buying they should be selling and retooling.
Posted by: bjsguess | October 10, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Considering that this was the first year after Tejada's Age-Gate and Mitchell Report appearance, esp. since he was one of the more prominent players in the report, I'm curious to hear what some people think about his value today? Is he an asset still or a liability? Apparently it sounds like he can still play short. He started out of the gate pretty strong but then had streaks and slumps. Overall the numbers were above average but the power slipped.
Posted by: basemonkey | October 10, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Also we must that this was Tejada's first year as a 'Stro. He was traded for Troy Patton, Matt Albers, Dennis Sarfate, Luke Scott, and Mike Constanzo. Patton was out with an expected injury, but 3 of those guys (Sarfate, Albers, and Scott) posted solid years for Baltimore. Constanzo is an organizational player but Patton might be the best of that bunch if he comes back from the injury. At the time of that trade a lot of Cubs fans here bashed the Orioles for getting "trash" back. Based on what we know today who wins that trade so far?
Posted by: basemonkey | October 10, 2008 at 01:07 PM
I am just looking at simple numbers...12th in the NL in OBP at .323, 9th in SLG at .415. Not sure how you could project that offense as above-average unless, like I said, a bunch of things change/come together.
Pitching-wise you could have Oswalt, Wolf, Rodriguez, and Moehler, who were all respectable in 2008.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | October 10, 2008 at 01:38 PM
Orioles won, even with Patton rehabbing. First of all the age thing, Tejada will be 35 in May next season, not 33 as thought. Odds are his skills will continue to decline. But the major thing is the Astros brought him in arguing they were bringing in a slugger, Tejada was anything but that. In the National League, he's on the bottom of the list in OPS and SLG and by far lead the entire MLB in grounding into double plays. Personally, I'd rather someone who strikes out rather than someone who grounds into double plays. Tejada's just not the electric player he once was.
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | October 10, 2008 at 01:45 PM
I hope the Astros give Towles another shot starting. He will be 25 next year. He was horrible in 171 plate appearances with the Astros (.137/.250/.253) but his .157 BABIP indicates some bad luck was involved. His LD% was very low so he would have had a low BABIP regardless, but .157 is just silly low. Then they could save a million or 2 they might otherwise spend on a backup. He did fine at AAA and I think he'll be pretty close to average (at worst) if given another shot.
The only other question mark on offense is CF. If Bogusevic has a good performance over the winter, I could see them letting him, Bourn, and Erstad battle it out in spring training. Bogusevic hit .371/.447/.556 in 124 at-bats at AA. Nice showing, but he is not that good (small sample size and luck) and its hard to believe he would be ML ready after pitching exclusively the last couple years. Still, he can handle CF and its hard to believe he could be much worse than Bourn/Erstad. Still, given that the Astros have 3 options, I don't think it is worth trying to bring in a free agent CF.
The exception might be getting Jerry Hairston Jr. or Willie Bloomquist to platoon. Laught all you want, but Bogusevic, Bourn, and Erstad are all lefties. Bloomquist is a righty with pretty good splits against lefties over his career (.278/.339/.362, with his OBP over .360 the last 4 years). Sadly, it would be an upgrade over leaving Bourn or Erstad in there against lefties.
The rotation is tougher. Oswalt is still an OK #1 (no longer an ace) and he might be more like a #2. Wandy is a good #3 or a weak #2. I wouldn't trust the rest of the rotation any further than I can throw it.
It looks like the Astros only have enough cash to go after 1 mid-rotation starter. I have always liked Wolf and he has more upside than a typical mid-rotation starter, but he also has a lot of downside (injury). Still, I wouldn't go more than 2 years on him and he can probably find 3 years elsewhere.
But if they are thinking of paying Randy Wolf $20 million over 2 years (which is a minimum it probably takes after Silva, Lohse, etc.), why not just chase someone more dependable like Lowe or with more upside like Burnett and back-load his contract a little.
Tejada, Wigginton, and Valverde are all coming off the books after 2009 which will free up more than $25 million if they want to get creative. $60 million (or higher) over 4 years for either Lowe or Burnett shouldn't be a problem. Just make the first year $10-12 million and then split the rest evenly.
If Randy Johnson doesn't go back to the D-Backs, he would be a great fit. It would only take a 1-year deal and the Astros could pay him plenty. Hell, flags fly forever and if they could get Randy and Lowe for $25 million next year, I think they suddenly become NL Central favorites. Maybe it is a big 1-year increase, but with this proposal, RJ, Tejada, Valverde, and Wigginton would all be gone after 2009.
Posted by: mymrbig | October 10, 2008 at 01:50 PM
I think Randy Johnson is a great idea for the Astros. Injury risk between him and Wolf would be high, but both have some upside. You would have three lefties in the rotation, but that is OK.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | October 10, 2008 at 02:03 PM
I thought there were a lot of rumors about the Astros wanting Sheets?
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | October 10, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Even though he is vastly over-paid, the Astros are very happy with Tejada because of his intangibles and leadership in the clubhouse.
I still say the Orioles won that trade by a long shot.
Posted by: trevordchi | October 10, 2008 at 02:28 PM
Oh an mymrbig, Oswalt was 10-2 with a 2.24 ERA in the 2nd half. He was hurt in the first half. I still say he is one of the top pitchers in baseball and easily an ace in every sense of the word.
Posted by: trevordchi | October 10, 2008 at 02:30 PM
mymrbig: Roy Oswalt is only a 2? I'm just wondering where you come up with that? As to the trade, the Orioles won that trade even if Scott is the only player they received. He has no defense, but his offense is vastly underrated.
Posted by: seanbergmanrules | October 10, 2008 at 02:31 PM
We cant afford to give Bourn another chance. He was god awful. We cant keep playing the guy with the lowest OPS in the league. I suggest spending a little $ on a bat. Adam Dunn is very well possible.
He’s from Houston, he’s always spoken highly of the Astros, there has been rumored mutual interest since early in his Reds career, etc. Considering the Astros always seem to make 1 big move every offseason, this could very well be it.
And before anybody yells at me saying the Astros need an arm more than they do a bat, we were above league average in pitching categories, and below league average in batting categories. Berkman and Lee are awesome, but the offense isnt great.
Posted by: cords | October 10, 2008 at 03:19 PM
seanbergmanrules - I call Oswalt a very good #2, but you are right in the sense that he would be a #1 on many teams.
Still, he definitely isn't in the top tier of NL starters any more. Lincecum, Peavy, Santana, Webb, Haren, Billingsley, Hamels, and Sabathia are all clearly better. I think Oswalt is in the next tier with guys like Wainwright, Lowe, Zambrano, and Chris Young. And if healthy, you can argue about whether Oswalt is better than Harden, Smoltz, Sheets, Gallardo, Harang, and Carpenter. Not to mention emerging guys like Volquez, Nolasco, Jurrjens, Dempster, and Cain.
Put another way, here are some of Oswalt's numbers for 2007/2008 and where he stood in the NL rankings:
ERA: 3.18 (6th)/3.54 (13th)
ERC: 3.72 (15th)/3.42 (12th)(ESPN)
DIPS ERA: 3.51 (6th)/3.80 (16th) (ESPN)
FIP : 3.59 (6th)/3.80 (17th) (fangraphs)
FIP : 3.54 (6th)/3.84 (18th) (THT)
Looking at just the playoff teams, the White Sox are the only team where he would clearly be considered the #1 starter: Phillies (Hamels), Dodgers (Billingsley/Lowe), Cubs (Harden/Zambrano/Dempster), Brewers (Sabathia/Sheets), Red Sox (Lester/Beckett/Dice-K), Rays (Kazmir/Shields), or Angels (Lackey/E. Santana). Even then, it is hard to compare his Astros' performance with what he would do for an AL team in a tougher ballpark.
Posted by: mymrbig | October 10, 2008 at 04:05 PM
Forgot about Danks on the White Sox, so don't know that Oswalt is their clear #1, though he would be #1 based on experience.
Posted by: mymrbig | October 10, 2008 at 04:06 PM
cords (and others) - I'd like to agree about Bourn not being a starter. I think he'd be OK platooning with someone else. At the very least, either Bourn, Erstad, or Bogusevic could be decent against righties and Bloomquist/Hairston Jr. would be decent against lefties.
Even my suggested platoon would be amongst the weaker CF in the majors. But the free agent CF market is very weak this year so there just aren't many other options.
And while the Astros offense isn't great, they are probably average or better everywhere except CF and C. Lee, Wigginton, and Matsui all missed some significant time this year, which really hurt the Astros' team offensive numbers. Hopefully Lee and Wigginton can stay healthy (Matsui obviously can't).
Posted by: mymrbig | October 10, 2008 at 04:12 PM
I never understood where the whole "Luke Scott can't play defense" thing originated. I don't have access to his +/- numbers (any help Tim?). But over the past 3 years, he has been about league average according to his RZR (THT), ZR (ESPN), RF/9 (baseball-reference), and SFR (Dan Fox of Baseball Prospectus ran a beta version of the 2007 numbers that put Scott amongst the best RF in the majors). Scott kills righties but does struggle against lefties.
That said, I think the Astros clearly lost the Tejada trade. And the Lidge trade. And the Valverde trade (Qualls was just as valuable and cost 1/2 as much). And the Villareal trade.
Posted by: mymrbig | October 10, 2008 at 04:20 PM
"Just as I feared ... Astros fans believe they are a good team despite the peripherals.
The Astros of 08 have a lot of close parallels to the Mariners of 07. Instead of buying they should be selling and retooling."
bjsguess, you are absolutely correct. The thing is, Ed Wade has a lot of close parallels with Bill Bavasi, so the 'Stros will ignore common sense and ride the emotional high of a late season winning streak and go into next season thinking they'll be contenders. Who knows, if their payroll gets up over $100 million we might have two $100 million/100 game losers in back to back years. Doubtful with guys like Berkman, Lee and Oswalt on the team but with Ed Wade steering it's clearly possible.
Posted by: pageian | October 10, 2008 at 04:21 PM
So um, how'd that Lidge for Bourn trade work out?
Anyone here who didn't know that Michael Bourn was a bad hitter raise your hand. Go on...... we're waiting....
Maybe someone should have told Ed Wade, because he obviously didn't know. But then again, there's a lot he doesn't know, like not to piss off Shawn Chacon.
It's so much fun to have a stooge like Wade in the drivers seat of a team that you don't like. Nothing personal Astro fans but I have a feeling that things are going to get a lot worse for you before things will get better. Don't be fooled by your second half surge, the Astros are a team that seems perilously close to a complete and total collapse, a la Seattle.
Posted by: pageian | October 10, 2008 at 04:26 PM
I never said the offense was ABOVE Average. I just said that the pitching should be more in question than our offense right now.
Posted by: AstrosCoverage.blogspot.com | October 10, 2008 at 06:10 PM
Still don't see it...offense has more question marks.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | October 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM
With a small tweak or two, the Astros have the ability to be a perrenial contender I think.
You see plety of teams like the Rangers have a semi respectable records even with a team based completely on offense. But the Astros aren't screwed like the Arlington Rangers who never will get a better team until they fix their park. Astros have pitchers who aren't all going to post 5+ Eras with even a healthy Wandy, Wolf, and Oswalt of course. An offense of Mastui, Pence, Berkman, Lee, Tejada will be successful a good bit without help but if Bogusevic breaks out and maybe grab a catcher from Texas(Salty? Laird?) I could definately see this team a legitimate wild card team. You see what the Brewers did this year with a question-filled team.
Posted by: insomniac | October 10, 2008 at 11:35 PM
C - J.R. Towles
C - Josh Bard
1B - Lance Berkman
2B - Kaz Matsui
SS - Miguel Tejada
3B - Adrian Beltre
IF - Geoff Blum
IF - David Newhan
LF - Carlos Lee
CF - Hunter Pence
RF - Juan Rivera/Luis Gonzalez
OF - Darin Erstad
OF - Reggie Abercrombie
SP - Roy Oswalt
SP - Ben Sheets
SP - Wandy Rodriguez
SP - Brandon Backe
SP - Brian Mohler
RP - Jose Valverde
RP - Geoff Geary
RP - Tim Byrdak
RP - Wesley Wright
RP - Fernando Nieve
RP - Chad Cordero
*trade Michael Bourn for Chad Cordero
*trade Alberto Aria,Felipe Paulino, cash for Adrian Beltre
*sign Ben Sheets
*move Pence to CF and sign a veteran outfielder like Juan Rivera or Luis Gonzalez
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | October 11, 2008 at 04:44 PM
"I am just looking at simple numbers...12th in the NL in OBP at .323, 9th in SLG at .415. Not sure how you could project that offense as above-average unless, like I said, a bunch of things change/come together."
Tim, I think they must have been looking at a bunch of Berkman highlight films and not much of the rest of the team ;-)
Posted by: AA | October 12, 2008 at 12:40 AM
The Astros' team OBP and SLG numbers are really hurt by missing Lee and Wigginton for significant time.
BaseballFanatic40 - you must be on drugs. Chad Cordero is going to be released by the Nats (they announced it months ago), so he will be a free agent. He is also coming off an injury. Your Beltre proposal is not nearly enough for hi, unless the Mariners' new GM is a fool. Pence was pretty poor defensively in CF. Rivera would be an interesting signing, but Luis Gonzalez is way, way past his prime and has a terrible, terrible arm. Signing him to play RF would be utter foolishness. Nice tries though.
Posted by: mymrbig | October 13, 2008 at 10:09 AM
No maybe not enough but if u offer to pay the remainder of his contract im sure they would definitely be interested ... i much rather them sing Juan Rivera in RF as well but a backup would be a veteran OF who still has some pop and a decent arm. I never heard of Cordero surely being released it was just speculation but if it does happen they just sign him. Was what i really said so foolish that i had to explain it to you like this...i dont think so
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | October 13, 2008 at 07:14 PM
maybe your the one taking drugs...but i have never taken them a day in my life...
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | October 13, 2008 at 07:15 PM
sign*
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | October 13, 2008 at 07:16 PM