Offseason Outlook: New York Yankees

I honestly prefer that they only sign Baldelli and maybe Lowe, because I think they're the only ones that are worth it. What are your thoughts Tim?

Duck and cover. This is about to become a crazy thread...

The Yankees will once again be among the top four teams in the AL next year. Although with all the jubilant talk on ESPN and the blogosphere about their 'downfall', you'd think they had just put up a .500 season.

We saw the downside of the Yankees in 2008. Their upside remains absolutely tremendous, especially if they land Sabathia.

Andrew, when you spend 70 or 80 million more than the closest competitor, you should be THE top team in baseball. It's amazing that 200+ million per year couldn't win a championship over the last how many years?

melmann - you know little about baseball if you equate salary = winning without understanding the other variables. Your statements are a bit zealous. The fact that the Yankees made it to the post-season 13 years in a row is superb. You can't knock the Yankees not winning MORE WS on payroll.

#4 is for all the NYY fans that get hammered on this site for being homers.

melmann, as Tampa is doing a good job of showing, you can win with a small payroll. The Pirates problem is bad management, no more, no less.

And you're crazy if you think the Yankees have no limit on what they can spend. They're losing money by having these $200 million payrolls. The teams turning the highest profits are the ones with the really small payrolls.

At the end of the day, it's all a business. The Yankees ownership has decided they have enough money and would rather win than turn a profit. A lot of the small market teams feel the opposite. Don't blame the Yankees for the problems, blame the teams taking those revenue sharing payments and sticking them in savings account.

"Sign Lowe and Garland. Best to sign efficient arms who wont cost a lot of money."

How cheap do you expect Lowe and Garland to be? I'm guessing Lowe in the $16M range and Garland at least at $12M. I don't consider that not costing a lot of money.

The Yankees need to sign Sabathia. That should be #1 on their priority list because they need a true, work horse ace; not to mention power pitcher. They need to stay away from Lowe, he's 35 and isn't getting any younger. I'd take my chances with Burnett to a 4 or 5 yr deal that pays him around 17/18 a year. If he doesn't accept, then fine. If he does, then when he's healhty, he can match up with the best pitchers in baseball with his electric stuff. If the Yanks could pull out Mark Teixeira in some INSANE way, then I'd say go for it because the team OBP is going to suffer with the loss of at least 1 of Abreu and Giambi. Last, I think they should try out Brett Gardner for 09 and see what he can do, but in 2010, the Yanks will have Ajax ready and see what all of his hype is about.

Yanks sign Sabathia or Burnett, Plus Moose. They trade Marte, Betemit and a mid level prospect for Nick Johnson. They sign Cameron to a 2 yr deal (Giving enough time to "season" CF prospect ActionJackson). Let Ransom be your utility infielder and Gardner your 4th Outfielder/Pinch runner/Defensive Replacement. Miranda is your bat off the bench. Melancon joins the pen.

Sabathia or Burnett
Wang
Joba
Mussina
Hughes or Aceves or Coke

Mo
Melancon
Coke
Veras
Aceves
Bruney
Edwar/Albaladejo/Giese/Sanchez

WhoreHey Posada C
Johnson 1st
Cano 2nd
Jeta SS
Arod 3rd
Damon LF
Cameron CF
Nady RF
Matsui DH

Molina Backup Catcher
Ransom Utility Infielder
Gardner 4th Outfield/Pinch Run
Miranda Bat on the bench

plus great depth at AAA

Done.

No love for Shelley Duncan or Juan Miranda as the currently slotted Yankee 1B? Also I bet Francisco Cervelli beats out Molina to be the back-up catcher next year.

I think the Yanks should break the bank for Teixeira, re-sign Mussina (or Pettitte if Moose retires), sign/trade for a legitimate utility player (perhaps Kennedy from StL?) and go after either Burnett or Lowe. I love Burnett from a talent and Red Sox-killer perspective but I think he has the best chance to be Pavano 2.0 of this year's class. Lowe seems safer but I worry that his last year in the AL, playoffs excluded, was miserable (though it's been said he's gotten help for problems with alcohol which could explain '04).

Aren't CC, Lowe, and Beckett all type A's? How are they going to sign 2 out of the three? I don't see any of the 3 previous teams not offering arbitration and surrendering the picks.

I am on the bandwagon for Cameron in Center ... just one problem, he has to opt out of Milwaukee and they seem to be on an upswing.

I am amazed the 'homer' Yankee fans haven't been coveting Ryan Braun, to tell you the truth.

C - Jorge Posada
C - Jose Molina
1B - Mark Teixeira
2B - Robinson Cano
SS - Derek Jeter
3B - Alex Rodriguez
IF - Wilson Betemit
IF - Cody Ransom
LF - Hideki Matsui/Xavier Nady
CF - Brett Gardner/Austin Jackson
RF - Bobby Abreu
OF - Melky Cabrera(easily replaceable by AJax)
DH - Johnny Damon

SP - CC Sabathia
SP - Chien Ming Wang
SP - Derek Lowe
SP - Mike Mussina
SP - Joba Chamberlain

RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Damaso Marte
RP - Brian Bruney
RP - Jose Veras
RP - Phil Coke
RP - Mark Melancon
LRP- Phil Hughes

BaseballFanatic40

The 1 thing that I have wrong with that roster is Derek Lowe. I would not even think about signing him because

1. He's 35 and not getting any younger.
2. His last year in the AL East was horrid (aside from the playoffs)
3. He's the kind of guy the Yanks WERE trying to stay away from (and I hope STILL are trying to stay away from) although they're interested in him which worries me a lot.

I think Burnett would just be a lot better signing over Lowe because of age and his stuff. Yes Burnett is injury prone, but who knows.. maybe that's behind him now.

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about Delmon Young being an option for the Yankees in RF if Abreu walks. The Twins dont seem to convinced about him but remember he's only 23 and it has been rumored that he is available... just putting that out there ...

It is a sad state of affairs when one competitor has such an unfair advantage (or two, if you include Boston). New York gets the Lamborghini and the credit card for their date. Pittsburgh gets two bus tokens and a five dollar bill.

Delmon Young would be a good fit. His upside is threw the roof and when the yankees played minnesota he displayed great opposite field power which could come to his advantage at yankee stadium. Who the yankees would trade for i dont know.

So, let's just take Zrosey21's club as an example of Yankee lunacy.

According to Tim the Yanks will have a baseline team salary of approx $150m. Then you sign (or resign):

Sabathia - $22m
Mussina - $12m
Pettitte - $12m
Tex - $18m
Lowe/Burnett - $16m
Abreu - $14m

That adds over $90m to your current salary bringing the new total close to $250m for year.

Put another way, that's one quarter of a BILLION in team salaries for the Yankees for 2009. And you still have Posada catching? For $250m you should be able to land a back-up catcher to help out Posada when he inevitably can't catch next year. That payroll would nearly double the next closest team. Unbelievable.

Hey Tim as for other committments you are forgetting Igawa's $4 million.

Baseball Fanatic40: The Yankees wouldn't have enough money for CC, Tex, Abreu, Mussina and Lowe even if they added $20 million to their payroll. Which I think is a bit unlikely since all the talk is they are going to cut payroll by at least $20 million.

Even if the Brewers keep Cameron i'm sure they'd move him for a couple mid level prospects so that could be an option. But the guy that makes the most sense is Jim Edmonds. No he is not what he once was but he had a good year for the cubs and still plays decent defense. My guess is his price would be under the $10 million of Cameron as well.

As for the rest of the Yankees plans i would figure prob no on CC b/c the yanks need at least 2 starters and if they are only gonna have $30-40 million. I think they resign Moose, and grab one of Lowe, Burnett, or Oliver Perez. Sign Edmonds and maybe Eric Hinske for 1B.

HebrewHammer1989:
My point exactly... Delmon Young has phenominal upside and in the new Yankee Stadium he would still be able to the the ball over the RF fence with that great opposite field poweras well since the dimensions are the same... if my memory serves correct, the twins were once discouraged about another play who they felt couldn't develop power ... .ummm what was his name.... oh yea David Ortiz

"Sabathia - $22m
Mussina - $12m
Pettitte - $12m
Tex - $18m
Lowe/Burnett - $16m
Abreu - $14m"

That's making a fairly big assumption. I would imagine that they won't be offering contracts to 4 starters and that if the yankees sign tex they wont sign abreu and vice versa.

If the Yanks net sabathia, there is no need to overspend for a third starter - just bring back pettitte (or Mussina). this will allow them to sign Tex and potentially stay around 180 Million. Marte's option must be picked up - other than that, there is no need to add to the bullpen. There is no absolute need to get a stopgap CF - meky and gardner can handle the position for one year. I do like the posibility of getting D Lee for two years if Tex falls through.

sabathia
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Hughes

Rivera
Melancon
Marte
Bruney
Veras
Coke
Aceves

Damon
Jeter
Texiera
Rodriguez
Matsui
Nady
Posada
Cano
Gardner

Molina
Melky
Betemit
Ransom

"

Cameron + Fielder = Hughes + mid level prospect????

Yankee fans are just killing me.
"

Isn't that a fact. Hip boots needed already with some of the wild &@^# proposals flying in this topic.

At least most are centering on Tex, which is a logical (and much needed) acquisition.

Remember Yankee fans, build up that farm system and the unknown "mid B range" prospect can actually have a name.

Forget Cameron people....he'll be 36 years old, struck out 142 times and hit .243...in the NL!!

Forget Fielder...he's 5'5 390 lbs, struck out 134 times, had the most errors at 1B in MLB and it takes his 20 mins to run to first base.

Forget CC SoFattia. He's logged what, 900 innings in 2 years, is horrid in the playoffs, likes the WC, prefers the NL because he likes to hit (and dominate). He's not coming here...and we don't want him!! Why? Have we not learned that showering mercenaries with $$ only ends in inflated payroll problems and early playoff exits??

What we need to do is trade some of our younger player for younger players.

Trade: Cano, Kennedy & Humberto Sanchez for Peavy.

Sign: Hudson

Sign: Texiera

Trade: Hughes, Melky and Ed Ramirez for Zach Greinke.

Sign: Burnett

Say goodbye to Giambi, Abreu, Moose, Andy, Marte, Pavano, Pudge & Kevin Long!!

Peavy
Wang
Burnett
Greinke
Joba

Damon - LF
Jeter - SS
A Rod - 3B
Tex - 1B
Matsui - DH
Nady - RF
Posada - C
Hudson - 2B
Gardner - CF

Mo
Melancon
Bruney
Coke
Veras
Aceves
Robertson

Ransom, Molina and a few minor signings to fill-out the bench. This is an area that always gets overlooked and needs to be addressed properly.

NOTE: I don't give a rats rear end about the opinions of all the ignorant Yankee haters that only come here to start needless arguments, spout insult and act like morons. You hate the Yankees, think our fans overvalue our prospects, think we feel entitled to win, etc?? Don't come to our chat threads!! Go to your own teams board and overvalue your own players!!

It seems like the Yankees (assuming they really do cut payroll) can really only take on one of CC or Tex. Otherwise combined you're talking about $40 million and I just don't see that happening esp. when they will need at least one starter and a centerfielder. I realize every Yankees fan is waiting for Austin Jackson and by every account he could be the next Bernie Williams. What I don't understand is how so many fans can be content with Brett Gardner as your everyday CF as a backup thats one thing but this guy shouldn't be starting. He is not a GG caliber defender. He doesn't have one tool, like speed, power or is an OBP type of guy. What does he really bring to the table? Shouldn't the litmus test for the Yankees be that if this guy couldn't start or prob even play for the Nationals he prob shouldn't be starting for us??

Everyone wants Tex, and I understand why he is prob the 2nd best all-around 1B behind Pujols, but the Yanks already had good production from 1B, Giambi had a good year, even with the low average he is a great OPS guy. And while Tex Defense is going to be a big improvement over Giambi his offense won't be that great of an improvement. CF on the other hand the Yankees got almost no production out of Melky/Gardner and fans don't seem to want to improve at all in that area.

What's wrong with Cam + Fielder for Hughes and another prospect? If Fielder isn't quite enough to get Hughes (as Tim said in the original post), adding Cam, who fills a position they really need should do it plus bring back another prospect.

I'm a Brewer fan, by the way.

With respect if your a Brewer fan your not a very good one if you want to hurt your team so bad. Where did Tim say Fielder isn't quite enough to get Hughes??? Hughes isn't near enough to get Fielder, while it woudld be a good start it wouldn't be enough. Prince Fielder is one of the best power hitters in baseball, Phil Hughes is a very intriging arm but not much more than that until he pitches effectivly. No way are they equal.

cf is not a concern b/c austin jackson is a top prospect who is headed for AAA in 2009 and plays CF. Also, brett gardner showed flashes last year. other than jesus montero, they have no 1B prospects in the system and 1B is a position they have needed to address for some time now.

I wonder how long this page will get.

Yanks should go crazy

1. B. Sheets
2. A. Burnett
3. J. Peavy
4. J. Chamberlain
5. C. Wang

z

Yanks 09

1. I. Susuki RF
2. D. Jeter SS
3. M. Ramirez DH
4. A. Rodriguez 3B
5. I. Rodriguez C
6. X. Nady LF
7. J. Posada 1B
8. W. Betemit 2B
9. B. Gardner CF

z

Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Ian Snell for R. Cano, Phil Coke, Melky Cabrera, and PTBNL

For the love of money!!!

Why do people insist that we need to trade for a CF? I have yet to hear 1 baseball analyst or expert say the reason why we failed to make it to the post season was because we lacked a stud CF.

Melky is a very capable CF who everyoen talks about having both range and a cannon for an arm. Gardner has the tools to cover a lot of ground and is arm is decent. I don't expect either to ever be a star but who needs them to be. The knock on both of them right now is that they have light bats. As long as I can get .250, 12 hrs and 60 rbis from Melky than I'm happy to have him play CF and wait and see how Austin Jackson develops. Please let's not pull a Bush/Cheney and get distracted from attacking the real problems with this team (lack of a #1 or #1 starter, 1B and an aging team). With as much offense as we should have, if healthy, we can carry a .250, 10 hr, 60 rbi CF).

No disrespect to Zach Greinke but if we were unwilling to trade Hughes and Melky for Santana then there's no way we're trading them for Greinke. Greinke had a great year and is still young but I would rather take my chances that Hughes can put those numbers up if healthy.

redbirdfan:
No way that would be a horrible trade for the Yankees... Mark Teixeira and better 1B than Adam LaRoche are available... Phil Coke is a young lefty(you never let go of them) Melky had a down year but did drive in 75 rbi's at 23 and we may need him to preserve CF till Ajax comes up... Ian Snell is very inconsistent (isnt even the ace of the Pirates and thats bad) and Freddy Sanchez doesnt produce as much as Cano does... if the Yankees wanted Sanchez their time was when he was released by Pittsburgh in the beginning of the season...

We should only sign CC and Teixeira. We don't need 2 FA pitches. Use CC, Wang, Joba, one of Pettitte/Mussina, and one young guy who's doing well (maybe Hughes or Aceves). If we can't get Pettitte or Mussina for #4 then just use 2 young guys. We need to stop going crazy with our off-season plans.

If we can't get CC, then get Sheets, Burnett, or Lowe. Maybe 2 of those since they're cheaper. But if we do get CC we don't need a second FA pitcher. We should only get Teixeira and CC.

Wow...Iv never seen so many bad contracts...whats another 2 or 3 eh?

"The Pirates' problem is bad management, no more, no less."

"The Pirates won't win because they have incompetent management."

Get a meme in your head and then repeat.

Get a meme in your head and then repeat.

Get a meme in your head and then repeat.

Yes, the Pirates had bad management. Past tense. The new management:

--CEO Frank Coonelly
--GM Neal Huntington
--Manager John Russell

All hired after the post-2007 purge, all on the job for 1 year or less.

How have they done so far? Well, the jury is still out, but after what could've been a fiasco with Pedro Alvarez, they got him signed to a new deal.

Yes, they had to trade Jason Bay, and what they got back may or may not pan out(the deal probably rests on Andy LaRoche and his uncertain future), but I would be hesitant to call that deal a long-term win for the Yankees, either(Nady and Marte aren't all that great.)

So, it's small sample size, but I'm seeing signs of hope for the future.

Time for a new meme. ;)

"Melky is a very capable CF who everyoen talks about having both range and a cannon for an arm. Gardner has the tools to cover a lot of ground and is arm is decent. I don't expect either to ever be a star but who needs them to be. The knock on both of them right now is that they have light bats."

Gardner looked like he really has the ability to make things happen with both his glove, as well as on the base paths in the games i watched him in. Can they afford to just pencil him into the CF lineup next year though without acquiring a veteran backup (if they trade melky) whom would be willing to either split time, or play the 4th OF position if Gardner succeeds? Veteran OF'ers that are of that caliber are not easy to find that are willing to sit on the bench, look no further than Crisp in Boston with his early season griping and he is a weak hitter, only glove and speed, much of all that Gardner translates to really.

"The Yankees aren't trading Cano for anything other than a top-flight starting pitcher. And seeing as how teams aren't going to give up a top-flight starting pitcher for a package centered on Cano, he's most likely to stay right where he is."

You are more than likely right on regarding this Andrew IMO. With Danny Uggla more than likely also on the market and a shortage of 2B in the market this year, it may be that Uggla will be more easily obtained and more sought after, due to his power/rbi production at the position, as well as the trade cost may be somewhat less also with Uggla possibly being packaged with other arbitration eligible players the marlins have.

If Cano does go, it will probably be only after Uggla.

Gatling ... I had Lowe confused with someone else. My post was ignorant, not stupid. Speaking of stupid ... defending the addition of a 36 year old pitcher who is prone to giving up HRs is not exactly smart.
The Yankees should let this guy go and be 13 and 12 with some other team.

A-rod's salary is correct. His contract is frontloaded a bit because you would pay more for his services in his prime rather than paying him 30 mil when he is 40. He contract is like 25 mil towards the end so it works out better for the Yanks although it was stupid to pay him that much all Hank's fault.

Does anyone think that Manny Ramirez playing in NY (where he grew up) in front of his friends and family and in front of a large Dominican fan base in NY would forcast a better attitude than what we saw of Manny in Boston where maybe he wasn't comfortable and was just a big cash grab for him?

strikefour, the one positive in the new A-Rod contract is that it's rather front loaded. The dollars per year go down every year until reaching $20 million near the end.

Of course, a lot of that is because he gets the $5m bonuses each time he moves up the home run list once he approaches the top. There's a good chance that a lot of the later years of the contract will end up being worth about as much as the early years.

Whoops! In my previous post, I was a bit unclear and my wording makes it sound like Bay, Marte, and Nady were all involved in the same trades.

To clarify, Marte and Nady were sent to the Yankees in exchange for Ross Ohlendorf, Jeff Karstens, Daniel McCutchen, and Jose Tabata, while Bay netted Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss from the Red Sox and Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from the Dodgers.

Sorry for the confusing previous post. :)

YanksFanSince78 on Giambi:

""GILF"...a "grounder I'd like to f*ck (up)"."

did you read my post? tough to boot grounders when you're DHing, isn't it?

Hating on Giambi just shows that you can't comprehend the value of OBP.

What I believe would be the most realistic roster:

Wang SP
Burnett SP (5 yrs, 90 mil)
Chamberlain SP
Pettitte SP (Mussina retires)
Hughes SP

Giese LRP
Bruney MRP
Veras MRP
Ramirez MRP
Coke LS
Ohman SU (Marte, offered arbitration)
Rivera CL

Damon LF
Jeter SS
Teixeira 1B (8 yrs, 160 mil)
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Nady RF (Abreu offered arbitration)
Cano 2B
Posada C
Gardner CF

Molina C
Betemit IF
Ransom IF
Cabrera OF

Leave via free agency:
Giambi
I. Rodriguez
Pavano

Payroll should be around $185 million.

I want NO part of the following players on the Yankees

Lowe: Old. Would get hammered in the AL East (like he did in his last year in Boston).

Pudge: Old. Over the hill. Performed terrible as a Yankee.

Pettite: An admitted druggy. Didn't do too well without his juice. Back to the NL if he's smart. Gone.

Betemit: Just plain bad all around. I'd take Ransom over him any day.

Marte: Never did well as a Yankee. Would be good trade bait.

Giamroid: Another druggy. Poor defense, poor average, slow. That "shift" kills him. Say Goodbye.

ABreu: rated the worst defensive outfielder in baseball. Has lost all his HR power offensively. Rather offer him arbitration and take the picks. Nady takes his place in right.

I personally say that we avoid Sabathia, and go after Lowe and perhaps Burnett via FA. Sign Burnett to an incentive-laden deal. How about Sheets to an incentive-laden deal as well? This will give us two potential great pick-ups, while allowing Joba/Hughes to fill up the final spots of the rotation (assuming that Moose nor Pettite will be back). If Sheets is able to pitch and is healthy, send Hughes back to the minors to have him work even more on his game.

Rotation:
Wang
Burnett
Lowe
Sheets/Joba/Hughes
Joba/Hughes

As for the positions, we must sign Tex. A switch hitter will solve the problem of too many lefty's in the lineup, while also filling a hole at the same time. He has great OBP, while also hitting for power and average. Gold-Glove candidate IMO at 1st base as well.... massive improvement over Giambi. I like the suggestion of signing Edmonds as a stop-gap CF for a year.. possibly another incentive-laden deal. Or Baldelli could work too.

I would trade Matsui (and possibly cash) for 2-3 mid-level prospects somewhere. This could open the door for Manny to come to the Bronx. I know many don't want him, but as a DH, he would be valuable. Could you imagine this line-up?

1. Damon - LF
2. Jeter - SS
3. A-Rod - 3B
4. Manny - DH
5. Texiera - 1B
6. Posada - C
7. Nady - RF
8. Cano - 2B
9. Edmonds/Gardener - CF

That is a healthy line-up in my opinion. Jeter would see better pitches with A-Rod hitting behind him instead of Abreu, while A-Rod will see better with Manny there too. Manny just dominates at Yankee Stadium.

I would also offer Abreu arbitration. He's bound to decline, which would net us 2 draft picks that we would lose if we sign Burnett/Lowe.

Sign CC Sabathia
Sign AJ Burnett or Derek Lowe
Try to Keep Mussina
Try to Keep Pettitte
Keep Abreu
Keep Cano
Possibly get Manny Ramirez

CF/LF Damon
CF Gardner
LF/DH Ramirez **
LF/RF Nady
RF Abreu **
DH/LF Matsui
1B Teixeira **
2B Cano
SS Jeter
3B A-Rod
C Posada
C Molina
ULT Betemit or ULT Ransom

1. CC Sabathia **
2. Chien-Ming Wang
3. Derek Lowe or AJ Burnett **
4. Mussina or Pettitte or BOTH **
5. Hughes

CL Rivera
SU Joba
SU Marté
MR Bruney
MR Veras
MR Ramiréz
LR Coke

Ultimate Starting Lineup

CF Damon
SS Jeter
LF Manny *
3B A-Rod
1B Teixeria *
RF Abreu *
DH Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano

BTW: As for the centerfield I think the Yanks have to have Melky and Gardner fight for the spot in spring training.