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« Manny Quotes | Main | Colletti Will Return As Dodgers GM »
Olney On Pettitte, Mussina
THURSDAY: Olney says Pettitte's agent Randy Hendricks informed the Yankees that his client wants to pitch for them in 2009. Olney says the interest is mutual.
WEDNESDAY: Lots of good stuff from ESPN's Buster Olney today. His scoop on the Yankees' free agent starters:
A longtime friend of Andy Pettitte reiterated that the left-hander intends to pitch in 2009 -- and there is a growing sense that Mike Mussina may return for another season, as well, although Mussina has not indicated a final decision, one way or another.
Intriguing news on Mussina, since he's suggested it'll be either three more seasons or retirement. The general vibe among the media as well as Yankees GM Brian Cashman had been that Mussina is leaning toward retirement.
I imagine the Yankees will scrap the plan to sign two of C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, and Derek Lowe if both Mussina and Pettitte return. Or perhaps they'd turn Pettitte away?
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Realistically I think that Yankees end up signing one of Pettitte and Mussina, and one of the big three guys listed above. That would leave them with a rotation of Wang, Joba, Moose/Pettitte, Free Agent, and whoever wins the 5th spot among the other young guys.
But then again, would the Yankees really want to sign Mussina to a three year deal, when they likely could give a similar, if slightly more costly, deal to Derek Lowe? Lowe seems like a far better bet to pitch well through 2011 than Mussina.
Posted by: scribbletone | October 15, 2008 at 11:14 AM
I don't think signing Mussina and Pettite would necessarily mean that they would not go after 2 of the big 3 pithcers.
First off, its not a given that Joba is going to be in the starting rotation next year. There has been enough chatter in NY about what happened to Chamberlain, and Girardi came out and said to the media that they have not decided on what Joba's role will be next year.
I think Pettite would be a one year deal, so it doesn't seem to make sense to avoid Lowe for 3 years because you will have one year of Pettite.
The Mussina three year deal seems a little out there. Word was he was retiring now he wants 3 years.
Posted by: Chris | October 15, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Why on EARTH would the Yankees choose to sign Derek Lowe (who pitched poorly the last time he was in the AL East) over taking two short-term deals with Pettitte and Mussina (say maybe one year for Pettitte, two for Mussina + one year option)?
Mussina and Pettitte like playing in NY, and however poor Moose's 2007 and Pettitte's 2008 were, they're still both somewhat of a known entity. I would so prefer both of them + one free agent over one of them + two of CC, Burnett, and Lowe.
Chris, I don't think Mussina ever indicated that he wanted a three-year deal; in fact, an MLB.com story had him indicating that he'd prefer to take it year to year. I think someone misconstrued his comments about how he'd probably need to pitch three more years to get to 300 as him demanding a three-year deal.
Posted by: syruplike | October 15, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Mussina is a must. He is a quality pitcher and can teach the young righties how to create on the mound when they don't necessarily have their #1 and 2 pitches that day.
Pettitte is a sometimes dominant lefty who may benefit from a Clemens-like schedule of not traveling with the team (except to Texas, of course). That would give the youngsters (Aceves, Hughes) a chance to throw.
Since one starter is bound to get hurt, it's probably a good idea to sign a free agent (CC, AJ, not Lowe).
The fact that Pettitte is only a 1-yr deal would be good for turning over the rotation next year.
Posted by: rossdfarian | October 15, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Moose would be nice on a year-to-year Wakefield'esque plan only. He's 40 years old and after hitters had a chance to see film on his reinvention this past season, there is no guarantee he has the same success.
Say goodbye to Andy. He's a great Yankee but he was batting practice in the second half.
Say no to Lowe! He doesn't have the stuff to get out AL Beast pitching. I don't want CC Sofattia either. He's a WC guy, likes to hit and totally sucked for the second year in the postseason.
What the Yankees need to do is sign Burnett...who is AL Beast tested and owns the Sox...and then trade Cano and Hughes for Peavy!
Peavy, Wang, Burnett, Moose and Joba. (Aceves and Coke in the wings)
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | October 15, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Not sure if they'd use it, but the Yankees have all the leverage in the world over Pettitte and Mussina. Both are Type A free agents so they could, in essense, force either or both to take 1 year deals or let them walk and pick up 2 draft picks.
(I'd rather let Mussina go (to Philadelphia I'd imagine) for the picks and sign Sabathia/Burnett. Need some big time K arms in the rotation. If Pettitte wants back as the 4th starter, I'd be fine with one more year.)
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 12:20 PM
I think it would be wise not to obsess over potential draft picks. If Moose wants back on a 1-2 year deal at a hometown discount, the Yankees would be blatantly stupid to let him walk for picks.
Posted by: syruplike | October 15, 2008 at 12:34 PM
"Moose would be nice on a year-to-year Wakefield'esque plan only. He's 40 years old and after hitters had a chance to see film on his reinvention this past season, there is no guarantee he has the same success."
Is it plausible that both sides could/would do this? I recall 2 yearss ago(?) that moose voluntarily redid his contract from 1 year around 17 mil, to his just expired 2/23 mil deal, but that is not the open ended, club option 4 mil that Wake has and he went 16-12 with 225 IP the year he volunteered for that deal.
It would be a really good thing, as well as a nice show of support for the young arms in the form of veteran coaching, as both Wake and Timlin has done in Boston the last few years.
Posted by: johns | October 15, 2008 at 12:35 PM
"I'd rather let Mussina go (to Philadelphia I'd imagine)"
why would the phils even think about him. we already have a 46 year old pitcher why would we add another one? besides that we dont need him with happ, kendrick, and carrasrco battling it out for the 5 spot.
Posted by: derman1984 | October 15, 2008 at 12:54 PM
"I think it would be wise not to obsess over potential draft picks. If Moose wants back on a 1-2 year deal at a hometown discount, the Yankees would be blatantly stupid to let him walk for picks."
I'm obsessing over the entire rotation and best possible outcome for NY, draft picks included. Its probably safe to say that there are two big money slots open in the Yankees rotation and that one will come from the outside. So, more or less, its resign Mussina versus go out and get another free agent. Given that, you can't ignore the fact that its really Burnett (to choose a FA) and a 1st and a Supp versus Mussina and a 2nd. Granted, I'd take Burnett over Mussina regardless, but given how far the system has fallen relative to Tampa Bay and Boston over the last 16 months or so, any Yankees fan in it for the long haul should be pretty concerned about the 2009 draft.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Seems like the Mussina to Philadelphia rumors come up every year and he's a local, that's why I picked them.
(And Kendrick stinks.)
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM
JJ - Who plays second if we trade Cano? Nobody is talking about that.
There is no need to get Peavy. He's hesitant to leave the NL anyway.
I am in AZ and have seen some of Hughes in the Fall League ... Cashman knows what he's got there (potential dominance). Don't expect him to pull the trigger unless there's a 3-way trade that somehow nets us Halladay. hahaha
Posted by: rossdfarian | October 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM
CC's poor postseason performance MIGHT have a little to do with the number of innings he has thrown over the past 2 years. You know, all those innings that pushed his teams into the playoffs.
Of course, right now the Yanks might just want to focus on MAKING the playoffs - rather than worrying about how CC might perform once there.
Posted by: bjsguess | October 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM
i know kendrick stinks, but carrasrco and happ dont. we dont need the yankees castaway and hes def not worth the 2 draft picks we would give up for him.
Posted by: derman1984 | October 15, 2008 at 01:08 PM
Mussina for President '12 ... Think about it:
Name Recognition
Devoted Family Man
Stanford Educated
From a Swing-State
Owns tractors but has worked in the big city
Full head of hair
Posted by: rossdfarian | October 15, 2008 at 01:16 PM
Sabathia
Wang
Moose
Joba
Pettitte
Hughes, Aceves, Coke, IPK contingency sounds good to me..
Posted by: dapoktan | October 15, 2008 at 01:29 PM
Ross: I think the assumption is Hudson or Ellis.
Derman: He only costs the signing team 1 pick.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 01:59 PM
Ross: Hughes is a great prospect and has good stuff...but to say we don't need Peavy because we have Hughes is incorrect. Peavy is one of the top 5 best starters in MLB and is still in his 20's...and quite frankly, I'd rather have him and his contract over an over worked Sabathia and what he will command any day of the week.
As for who would play 2B if Cano is traded...NJM hit it on the head. Hudson or Ellis would have to be signed. Hudson is far superior defensively to Cano which helps a guys like Wang.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | October 15, 2008 at 03:05 PM
They wont turn Pettite away and they shouldnt. Hes probably going to have a Mike Mussina type year next year when he reinvents himself like Mike.
Posted by: yankfan1 | October 15, 2008 at 03:09 PM
Into a righty?
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 03:38 PM
I think Peavy understands the difference between pitching in the NL vs the AL ...
I could be a .500 pitcher in the NL West!!!
The AL East is a completely different animal. That's why Mussina, Halladay, and (soon to be qualified) Matsuzaka are so special. Career pitchers with great success in the toughest division.
That's why all this talk to Derek Lowe should be quelled ... he had his shot and proved mediocre. Burnett seems like the pick of the litter this year.
Posted by: rossdfarian | October 15, 2008 at 03:41 PM
talk "of" not talk "to" ... apologies
Posted by: rossdfarian | October 15, 2008 at 03:42 PM
"As for who would play 2B if Cano is traded...NJM hit it on the head. Hudson or Ellis would have to be signed. Hudson is far superior defensively to Cano which helps a guys like Wang."
Honestly if the Yankees are going to replace Cano to improve defense, they might as well figure out a way to move Jeter to improve defense as well. At 35 he's just not the SS he was 10 years ago, and honestly he doesn't belong there so much anymore. He's not killing the team there, but he's not good. Then again he's pretty much a living legend so..
As for Cano, the Yankees could/would probably ask for Blake DeWitt as part of the return package if they moved him to LA. That would be one way to solve that issue.
Posted by: scribbletone | October 15, 2008 at 04:28 PM
Why does everyone want to trade cano. If you trade him now you are selling him at his lowest point. This guy is going into his 4th year at 26 with 2 years over .300, including a .340 season, are you all convinced the off year in 2008 means he is done?
Posted by: kwhitey | October 15, 2008 at 04:52 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Yankees need to go balls to the wall for CC. Yes, we've heard he wants to stay closer to home (California) but then again I would never thought Johnny would have left Boston for NY and he did. Everyone has a price.
Try to resign at least one of the two (Mussina/Pettitte). With that, rotation looks like:
Sabathia
Wang
Mussina
Pettitte
Hughes
That leaves Kennedy in the 'pen or minors. I have no doubt, the way this staff has been hit the past few years, that he would be called up and have his turn to start more than a handful of games. That is fine, let him get his experience that way but not depend on him to hold down a spot on the rotation. We see what happened this year depending on Hughes/Kennedy.
Posted by: InvalidUserID | October 15, 2008 at 05:50 PM
Aceves, Sanchez, Coke, and all the rest of the Yankee arms can season in the minors and get called up later in the '09 campaign.
My thought is that the Yankees can't have enough pitching...not with the luck they've had these past few years.
Posted by: InvalidUserID | October 15, 2008 at 05:55 PM
I'm not usually a big "sign everybody!!!" type of Yankees fan but there are a lot of really good players in a lot of positions of need. Sooo ... Yeah. Sabathia, Burnett, Teixiera (or Dunn), lots to like.
(I don't think anyone advocates just giving Cano away, but he's not as valuable as he was after last season when it looked like his plate discipline was coming along. If you can swing him to a team that values AVG over OBP and get another high upside player that better fits your organization, its worth considering.)
((I want Billingsley to tank tonight and maybe have Colletti decide that he's not veterany enough and never will be but then Bowa will talk about Cano and ...))
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 07:27 PM
I dont think Coke would go back to the minors unless he is there to become a starter..
Pettitte had a bad offseason and spring training because of all the capitol hill issues.. He should have a bounce back year, he's young enough to..
Cano is too valuable in the NYY's eyes, and not that valuable in other teams' eyes, so a trade seems unlikely..
Peavy had some arm issues, and it would cost too much of our prospects to get.. If Haren got 6 prospects.. it would take AT LEAST that much.. prolly more.. plus there's also the NL to AL thing..
We DO need to replace Abreu and Giambi's bat.. need Teixera..
As weird as it sounds.. I started thinking that we might need Teixera more than Sabathia.. It WAS our offense that limited us last year..
Posted by: dapoktan | October 15, 2008 at 08:43 PM
A very large portion of the offensive dip can be explained by the catcher position. Love Teixiera, would rather Sabathia if I had to pick between the two.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 15, 2008 at 11:44 PM
The Yanks are going to sign Pettite and CC, and trade for Jacobs. That's just my guess.
Posted by: Michael M | October 16, 2008 at 10:26 AM
"The Yanks are going to sign Pettite and CC, and trade for Jacobs"
Mike Jacobs has 3 years left before FA status and is probably the most valuable of the entire 25 HR+ record setting infield
the marlins had this year on the market this year.
Posted by: johns | October 16, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Typed submit to soon and mistake above..
The Marlins are not going to trade Jake off for a Rasner, or Ohlendorf type, They realize that he is the most valuable of the HR record setting infield they had this past season and can slide one of the 4 outfielders they have to the 1st base position next season to take his place. Jake has only 3 seasons under his belt, thus will remain under a team's control for 3 more year's also and the marlin's are not known for making foolish deals, like some other Yankee trading partners of late.
Posted by: johns | October 16, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Pardon me, but are you saying that Mike Jacobs is more valuable than Hanley Ramirez? He's a .299 OBP first baseman. Rob Deer is offended by his HR or bust approach.
(Seriously, he's the polar opposite of a Cashman type player. No way, no chance. I will eat this post if it happens.)
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 16, 2008 at 01:50 PM
Literally.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 16, 2008 at 01:50 PM
I don't know how you'd consider Jacobs the most valuable member of Florida's infield. I'd rank them as Hanley > Uggla > Jacobs > Cantu.
Hanley's got great numbers all around, puts them up at a position hard to find good offense out of, and is signed to an insanely team friendly long term deal.
Uggla's also got great numbers at a position that's hard to find offense at. While not signed, he's still under team control for 3 more years.
While he had a solid year, Cantu's numbers aren't as impressive considering he plays a corner spot. More importantly, he had lousy seasons in '06 and '07, making him rather risky.
While Jacobs has power, that's all he's got going for him with the bat. He doesn't hit for average and he doesn't take that many walks. He's got an absolutely dreadful OBP. And if you look at his first 2 seasons, he didn't even have enough power to impress.
I'd be amazed if Jacobs had much trade value. No chance the Yankees would give up Kennedy for him.
Posted by: yanksfan | October 16, 2008 at 02:06 PM
"I don't know how you'd consider Jacobs the most valuable member of Florida's infield. I'd rank them as Hanley > Uggla > Jacobs > Cantu."
Most valuable of the ones available for trade is what I should have posted yanksfan, just from the games I personally watched and only IMO also.
Hanley is going NOWHERE, even with his cast iron glove..
Posted by: johns | October 16, 2008 at 02:16 PM
But Uggla is available for trade, according to the rumors.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 16, 2008 at 02:20 PM
C Jorge Posada
1B Mike Jacobs
2B Robinson Cano
3B Alex Rodriguez
SS Derek Jeter
LF Hideki Matsui
CF Johnny Damon/Brett Gardner
RF Xavier Nady
DH Manny Ramirez
SP CC Sabathia
SP Joba Chamberlain
SP Chien Ming Wang
SP Andy Pettitte
SP Phil Hughes
CP Mariano Rivera
SU Damaso Marte
SU Mark Melancon
MRP Edwar Ramirez
MRP Jose Veras
MPR Brian Bruney
LRP Phil Coke
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | October 16, 2008 at 02:37 PM
C Jorge Posada
1B Mark Texiera
2B Robinson Cano
3B Alex Rodriguez
SS Derek Jeter
LF Xaiver Nady
CF Brett Gardner/Johnny Damon
RF Bobby Abreu
DH Hideki Matsui
SP Chien Ming Wang
SP CC Sabathia
SP Andy Pettitte
SP Joba Chamberlain
SP Phil Hughes
CP Mariano Rivera
SU Damaso Marte
SU Edwar Ramierz
RP Phil Coke
RP Alfredo Aceves
RP Brian Bruney
RP Jose Veras
Bench
C Jose Molina
OF Melky Cabrera
IF Wilson Betemit
IF Cody Ransom
Important Members of the Farm
Mark Melancon P
Austion Jackson OF
Humberto Sanchez P
Juan Miranda IF
Franciso Cervelli C
Andrew Brackman P
Dan Giese P
Chad Moeller C
Shelley Duncan IF/OF
David Robertson P
Jeffrey Marquez P
Justin Christian OF
Ian Kennedy P
Since injuries will occur, the Yankees can bring up some kids from the farm as replacements. That is why no farm kids are on the 25 man roster. And sorry BaseballFanatic40 that my layout is almost the same as yours.
Please Comment
Posted by: YankeeFan4life | October 16, 2008 at 04:46 PM
"But Uggla is available for trade, according to the rumors."
Uggs, Jake and Cantu probably all 3 are going to be up. I just have a feeling that the Marlins will want more for jacobs than even Uggla. Just my personal opinion, nothing more.
Posted by: johns | October 16, 2008 at 05:02 PM
I respectfully disagree.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | October 16, 2008 at 05:21 PM
YankeeFan4Life
I dont see the need for the yankees to sign Marte. They should offer arb and if he declines than good. Melacon is going to be 24 next year, I think hes ready. The Yanks should call him up. Coke will be their lefty reliever and Edwar could act as one (with his changeup. Besides leftys hit .229 against him which is pretty good. Abreu is not going to be brought back.
Posted by: yankfan1 | October 16, 2008 at 08:15 PM
As much as I like Mussina, I think you don't bring him back even he wants to. First, it was a free agent year so he performed well. He will return to his normal ways over upper 4 era. Second, we can offer him arb and get a pick if he decides to play.
The Yankees need to get CC and Tex. Helps pitching and offense. It will cost a decent amount put will pay off. Plus if they really want to get better and it doesn't cost the entire farm, get Peavy. I don't know how they would lose then.
Damon
Jeter
Tex
Arod
Matsui
Cano
Nady
Posada
Gardner
CC
Peavy?
Wang
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes
Aceves/Kennedy...?
Rivera
Marte?
Ramirez
Veras
Coke
Giese
Sanchez
Posted by: BaseballForLife1781 | October 17, 2008 at 12:05 AM