A's Acquire Matt Holliday

"Love how Angels fans are sweating this deal...the AL West is now Oaklands to lose if they didnt give up any of their top 5 prospects.

The Angels were an 88 win team last year, the A's 76, their luck was just huge and it showed come playoff time."

You seem to have missed the Angels series. They ran into a white hot Jon Lester and Ervin Santana was uncharacteristically shelled. You remove those two factors and the Angels, not the Red Sox, win that series.

Anyway, for all your talk of "luck" the Angels would have still beaten your hapless A's by 12 games if Pythag was any good at predicting the success of teams that play a small ball heavy style.

"AA hates the A's and is sweating this."

The A's are low on my "hated teams" totem pole. The Giants, Yankees, Mariners, Padres and Rangers all trump the A's for various reasons. Anyway, I am not sweating this deal. I don't even think the Coors Field Matt Holliday is good enough to fix the mess that is the Oakland A's and I am very interested to see just how good a player Holliday is outside of Coors.

Bobo...I agree Holliday's overrated, but he's still an above average ballplayer. Ludwick on the other hand needs to show me more than one year of success at age 30. I rather have a package of decent young prospects and a trading chip like Sheets or Duscherer than just one average outfielder.

no cause now he can try 2 cash in on Tex and Manny...and we all know Boras will work his magic in the Holliday deal

This deal makes sense to me if it is Street, Gonzales and Smith. Gonzales had a half a season in the majors and I am assuming they did not like what they saw, Smith is a fringe big league starter and Street is not in the long term plans.

Having seen Holliday play quite a bit outside of Coors, I think his bat will play anywhere. The hr numbers are just a portion of what makes him a good hitter, he is more Pujols than Dunn as far as hitting is concerned.

I see Holliday with something like this in Oakland:

.300/.380/.480 (OPS of .860 or so).

25 HR, 90 RBI

Basically something like his average road stats for the past 3 years.

Talk about uneducated people.

First, if the Angels lose Tex AND K-Rod AND have no replacements via FA or a trade consider the following:

K-Rod blew 7 saves out his 69. How many more saves will Arredondo blow? I don't know - maybe 3 or 4? Go ahead - subtract out those wins and come back down to 96.

Second, Tex was with the Angels for TWO MONTHS. He racked up 60+% of his AB's in the NL. While Tex made the club better this was still a club on pace for 95+ wins without him.

Finally, the Angels are NOT old. They are under 30 at C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B. Depending on who they go with in LF you can probably add that in as well. The rotation consists of all guys that are 30 or under. Oh, and don't forget that the Angels were decimated by injuries - injuries that would rival what ANY club saw last year.

As an Angels fan I can honestly say that I am not sweating this move. The A's have a chance to be real good, but they are a few years away from being serious threats.

unless the A's build a team around him, they will stay just about where they are, maybe finish in second but i dont see them winning the division, or the wild card since there are lots of other better teams to fight for that still

i'm guessing beane will let him walk after the season and get the draft picks. i'm not all that familiar with the a's, but do they have any other Type A FA's coming off the books after '09? maybe beane really likes what next year's draft looks like...
or maybe they spend big this winter and try to contend? didn't rosenthal write an article about how they have all kinds of money to spend?

It seems that the A's stay pretty low on payroll alot of the time, so I would think that Billy Beane would have the $ to retain Holliday.

"Just face facts. Your team overperformed last season, and you are most likely going to be worse next season."

I'm a Mariners fan. I hate the Angels, A's, and Rangers.

Spieg7 = thats some jaw dropping ignorance and homerish posting there. Lackey is the only true stud SP they have and the A's have a better relief options already.

The Angels are not that good a team! Only Angels fans think they are as good as their inflated W-L was last year.

Hurry up and tell me who's in the deal.

I can live with Street/CarGon/Smith, but Anderson is downright stupid.

Although I'd rather not give up CarGon and give up a corner OF instead.

Second, Tex was with the Angels for TWO MONTHS. He racked up 60+% of his AB's in the NL. While Tex made the club better this was still a club on pace for 95+ wins without him.

While that is true, the Angels had Kotchman at first before that. MOrales isn't going to be better next year than Kotchman or Tex'. Young players just don't come to the majors and dominate. It takes a couple years to become good MLB'ers

melonis - yeah Im going to be very disappointed if Cargo, Anderson or Cahill is in this deal. Im fine with losing anyone else. The only way Im cool with losing those specific dudes is if Ian Stewarts name gets added to the deal somehow.

Remember how bad Beane ripped of the Rockies in the Dye deal though? He's housed them before lets hope he does it again :)

"

Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports says its...........

Street
Car-Gon
Smith
"'

Tim Brown also broke the news that the Mariners were thinking of dealing Rowland-Smith to the Yankees for Hideki Matsui...

jpshark + Athletic Domination-

Every report I've seen is saying Cargo/Smith/Street.

Please Beane, get Cargo out and give up a corner OF. I'm very weary of Cunningham's ability to play CF. The Rox don't need a CF anyways, they have Dexter Fowler.

"Albert Pujols and Geovanny Soto disagree with you."

Do you understand that the Chamberlains, Pujols', Longoria's, and the others are the exception to the rule? The majority of players don't come up here and dominate, and expecting Morales to duplicate his minor league numbers would be as stupid of a move as the Yankees did with Hughes/Kennedy when they expected them to duplicate their minor league numbers in 2008.

Street, Smith and Gonzalez!!!! Rockies are robbing them blind.

Well i'm not a fan of this deal unless Stewart is packing his bags as well. Depth for depth as far as prospects go, if not this deal sucks.

Hey melonis, what if Furcal and Giambi get on board too? Trade Barton+Crosby for an innings eater and all of a sudden the A's jump to forefront of the AL.

Anderson 09 = Hudson 99.

"I love how Angel fans are saying how much better pitching they have, yet their entire team ERA last year was only .02 lower than Oakland's. Please realize that"

A's ERA
1st Half: 3.39
2nd Half: 4.93

There starting pitching was terrible in the second half to the tune of a 5.82 era. I am not a fan of either team, but the Angels pitching staff is way better than the A's.

Smith/Huston/Gonzales? I say that's a pretty fair deal for both teams. Smith is a decent back end starter, but soon would be out of the A's rotation with all their better pitching prospects. Huston is overrated like many closers are and injury prone. Gonzales still has upside and may be productive in the long run. Not a bad deal for 1 year of Holliday and compensation picks.

yeah, but to perform like an all star hall of famer right out of the gate is very very rare, which is certainly the case with albert who has been on an absolute war path for the last few years

Not to rain on your parade, but how are the A's affording Holliday (even if just for the 1 year), Furcal, and Giambi? That's 35 mio easily of 2009 payroll

I've figured out how it all makes sense for Oakland.....they are going to move the fences in 30 feet next year. That should be good for 50 bombs from Holliday!!

Seriously though, this has got to be a record for comments on an Athletics article.

Wait, was thinking Gio Gonzalez, sorry.

Curious to see how Holliday does with the switch to the cavern away from the bandbox. No doubt Beane is hoping he puts up great numbers because if the A's tank again he's going to want to spin Holliday at the deadline. Seems like a pretty risky deal for the A's to me. Nice haul by Colorado for a one year rental, even if Street is injured.

DodgersBruin do some homework. The Rox had Dye for a few hours from KC then flipped him to Oakland for 3 bust prospects.

"You really can't divide the A's ERA like that"

Ummm, you can especially when the team traded two starters in Harden and Blanton, and you had two pitchers pitching way above their expected production in Eveland and Smith.

"Hey melonis, what if Furcal and Giambi get on board too? Trade Barton+Crosby for an innings eater and all of a sudden the A's jump to forefront of the AL.

Anderson 09 = Hudson 99."

I don't think that's happening. Furcal wants a 4 year deal. NO WAY should the A's do that, period. I do not want to see both Furcal and Eric Chavez sitting on the DL for long periods of time. If Chavez can play 3B upon return, this could be interesting.

1B:Giambi/Barton
2B:Ellis
SS:Pennington
3B:Chavez
LF:Holliday
RF:Sweeney/Buck
CF:Cunningham
DH:Cust

Cust's numbers will probably be somewhere between his 2007 and 2008 numbers. I really think the lack of support in the lineup had something to do with his drop off, although I'm not sure.

And, if they add Giambi for 12MM and Holliday for 13MM, pairing that in with the 29MM they have committed for 2009 (although Street's money will come out so I'm guessing 26) and adding in arbitration (I think only Cust), their payroll will still be under what it was for 2007.

Well their gonna have to do more then this if they wanna be a playoff team,but this is a good start...They should look at Rafael Furcal and try and sign a pitcher.

DodgersBruin, it wasnt a 3 teamer it was 2 deals on the same day, a true "flip":

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dyeje01.shtml

"About the deal, I'd be willing to bet a months paycheck that Beane didn't include Cahill or Anderson."

I hope you keep your money, Ari.

Buck should not be playing CF. I like some defense from my center fielder please.

The CF is Cunningham.

Sweeney is not that great a defender either. Either Buck is moved or Sweeney/Buck share an OF spot.

Okay Athletic Domination, if you want to call it two deals, fine. We'll use your semantics.
In 2001 the Rockies were in the midst of a 73 win season. They had Neifi Perez for $3.5 mil and $4.1 mil in 2002. They traded him straight up for Dye who was making $3.8 mil. His salaries for the next 3 years were $7.1 mil, $11.6 mil, $11.6 mil.

The Rockies traded a player that wasn't going to help them compete (Perez) to a team that allowed them to trade another player that would be expensive and wouldn't help them compete (Dye) for 3 minor leaguers. In fact, I'll quote Joe Sheehan at the time of the trades (and he lumps them into one trade):

Joe Sheehan: Dye for Perez is a disaster. Encarnacion, Ortiz, and an arm for Dye is not bad. Perez for the three A's is a great deal. Ortiz in Coors could become a rich man. Dan O'Dowd moves up a few ticks in my eyes.

It's nice to look at the trade now and say none of the minor leaguers panned out. It's also nice to disregard salary. But there was no fleecing of the Rockies.

I am going out on a limb here but I do not think Beane is done dealing. His stockpile of talent could be used to shore up a lot of spots and build a team made to win for the next 1-3 yrs.

"If the Angels dont get Teixiera or an impact bat they become irrelevant and nothing to worry about."

Irrelevant and nothing to worry about? Hahaha

You folks realize that the Mariners had the same attitude lasy year and look where they ended up. The CELLAR.

Athletic Domination,

Yes they have a great young rotation, but who else on the offense is good besides Holliday? And the bullpen isn't that great.

Yeah bullpen isnt that great, its OUTSTANDING! What team are you thinking of?

Offensively Cust was their only hitter, now he finally has a known bat hitting behind him he might actually get a pitch to to hit every once in a while. Giambi and Furcal are both being targeted too. Chavez is supposedly healthy (doubt it though) but you have to take their word for it so thats 3 big bats+G-man and maybe Furcal, the offense could go from mediocre to excellent

Well if the A's want to contend, then they're going to have to make alot more moves. Matt Holliday is going to disappoint in that big park...he'll hit .302 with 12 hrs and 58 rbi (at home) but .322 with 26 hrs and 84 rbi on the road.

Athletics Domination, you got the second best minor league system part right, but actually you will be behind the Rangers not the Rays, which may actually have more pitching in their minors than the Athletics.

Texas truly has an incredible system, which is rather crazy if you look at how poor it was 2 years ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if Beane goes out and gets Fielder.

BadVlad - you obviously dont pay much attention. The A's are more like the Rays than the Nats. Deep farm system, developing young stars, well-rounded in every area. The Angels offense is woeful, Vlad cant run anymore and if they dont sign Teixiera or Manny or someone like that then they become also-rans. Thats the cold hard truth. This div is completely open except the Mariners. If Oakland keeps making moves and the Angels stand still, then you have to give the edge to Oakland for 09.

And your offense wasn't mediocre last year, it was horrendous and one of the worst in baseball.

Gonzalez makes this a really good deal for Colorado, though I still think Ludwick would be a better haul than these 3 (especially for a team that can compete next year in Colorado).

Though the 2 draft picks will lighten the loss of Gonzalez.

Not awful for Beane, but I still give the edge to the Rockies.

"Well if the A's want to contend, then they're going to have to make alot more moves. Matt Holliday is going to disappoint in that big park...he'll hit .302 with 12 hrs and 58 rbi (at home) but .322 with 26 hrs and 84 rbi on the road."

So your predicting a .312 38hr 142rbi season for Holliday nymforlife?

The A's are still nowhere close to the Angels, anyone who thinks this trade closes the gap is in for some disappointment...

nymforlife- Carlos Gonzalez. Gio Gonzalez in Coors Field would be a nightmare. Greg Smith is also a flyball pitcher, so Rox fans beware.

The A's could easily afford to resign Holliday at 20MM per year. Chavez's money comes off the books right when most of the young players will be hitting arbitration. Perfectly timed.

Well we know this for sure-Willy Taveras will be gone very very soon, now that the Rox added another OF.