Graziano's Latest: Sabathia, Halladay

If LA wants an ACE, CC is the way to go. They're aided by his love for the west coast and NL, assuming they can come within range of Yankees, they have a very good shot at landing him.

Kenan and Kel....I'd take Halladay over CC anyday. Halladay is as much an ace as any pitcher in baseball.

2 years 30 million, compared to 6/120 for the same thing, i mean come on

Im calling BS on this one.

Every time some bored sports writer has a day dream and makes a prediction of Halladay being traded, both Halladay and the Blue Jays squash the rumour quickly.

Why do people keep starting random BS rumours like this?

It must be nice to be a sports writer and just make things up randomly to seem like youre an insider.

This is the equivalent of an EKLUND hockey rumour and for those that dont know who Eklund is. He is an anonymus hockey blogger that claims to be an insider when all he does is invent trade rumours just to have teams and players squash them within a day.

16 of his starts were against either the Rays, Yankees, or Red Sox, and he still put up huge numbers. That he had 31 decisions speaks to how deep he goes into games, and that he managed 20 wins out of those decisions with the worst offense in their division, and one of the worst in the league, is even more impressive. I really think he was the best pitcher in baseball last season.

I say again to Frank Wren: forget Peavy and go after Halladay. I'm sure he's not actually available, but...According to Tim's outlook, they need a SS, DH, starters and bullpen help. Escobar, Hanson, Soriano, Moylan and whoever the hell else they want. Hell, sign Manny and trade him in that package...Halladay would be ridiculous in the NL.

lol to boston belongs to me

"Kenan and Kel....I'd take Halladay over CC anyday. Halladay is as much an ace as any pitcher in baseball."

Did I say CC was the better pitcher?

CC cost cash.

Halladay would rape the Dodgers system/young guys.

gotta think that the Jays asking price starts with Billingsley, and goes up from there.

If Halladay is available, expect EVERYONE to be interested.

I would not be surprised to Texas offer something like Feliz and Andrus and possibly another top 100 guy for starters.

Halladay would get a kings ransom for Tor

Daslied, I agree: I'd much rather the Braves get Halladay than Peavy - especially at this point. But Halladay's most likely not going anywhere. And as far as CC goes, the Yanks are going to overpay to the point of CC having no other choice other than to accept. I don't see why the Dodgers wouldn't have the best chance with Manny though.

"I would not be surprised to Texas offer something like Feliz and Andrus and possibly another top 100 guy for starters."

Two prospects? And possibly another top 100?

I know the Rangers are loaded but you'd have to imagine Roy Halladay would be worth some major league talent.

Drumzalicious, you'd have to include Hanson. Which I'd be fine with for Halladay, even for two years of him.

I would give YanksFanSince78's right arm for Halladay.

Wonder what the Phils could have that would interest the Jays? Donald, Carrasco, Marson and Quintin Berry? I'd rather try to avoid Michael taylor if i could.

Yeah, any deal involving Halladay would START with a young MLB player with star potential.

After that you're talking about the inclusion of something like 2 of the team's top 3 prospects.

From Atlanta, I'd imagine something like Escobar, Hanson, Hernandez would be a decent starting package.

alright I'll add Victorino to my package from the Phils and also include YanksFanSince78's left arm as well.

oh, and aquirrem2, i have some magic beans, ya know, if you're interested.

this is probably the first and last time i will agree with thirty5thirty6, that trade proposal is just awful. kennedy is the big catch in a deal for arguable the best pitcher in baseball, seriously. youd need to give him with hughes and melky AND cano without even blinking an eye

"I'd be willing to give up ANYONE except Gardner, AJax, and Hughes(with the possible exeption of Christian) for him.... "

dude.

a deal involving halladay would start with Hughes and someone else from that list. the jays don't want your yankee rejects.

in fact, i don't think the yanks have what it takes to get doc for 2 years on $30 mil.

I have trouble seeing the Phil being able to put together a package that would interest Toronto without the inclusion of Cole Hamels.

ALRIGHT, stop right there. we're done this discussion. That's just crazy talk. Hamels is untouchable and controllable for at least 3-4 years.

"I'd be willing to give up ANYONE except Gardner, AJax, and Hughes"

K then I guess you prefer to start with Joba?

Who entertains trading for one of the best pitchers in either league and immediately declares their two most tradable/valuable assets as off limits?

Ok, I appologize for my comment above. I was having one of those kid in a candystore moments. Coming back down to reality, I probably would give up some of those prospects for halladay. Realistically I'm not a very big fan of Hughes, but I think he *MIGHT* be able to pull it off later, Kennedy I think would be a very good pitcher, for a team in a smaller market. I'd have no problem parting ways with either of the two (if not both) for Halladay, but AJax is off the table (in my mind anyway). And I think that Gardner is an asset to the future for us, because Damon's contract is up next year and if we re-sign him it'll be as a DH (I'd have Gardner in Left, Jackson in Center and Nady/Someone else in Right for 2010).
Realistically here's what I'd offer:
Kennedy
Igawa
Hughes
Melky
Cano (infact I'd like to get rid of him, but there are few alternatives not named Orlando Hudson)
but I'd expect Halladay and another (low level) prospect from the Jays.
Oh, and one last thing, if you're gonna bash me, please get my name right, its aguirrem2 with a g not a q.....

aguirrem2,

you're an idiot.

Kennedy/Melky/Igawa/crappy prospect for Hallaway?

Wow, Yankee fans are so diluted.

Any deal would have to include at least Joba or Hughes and Ajax plus a couple more solid pieces.

You're talking about a bonafide ACE.

realistic yankee trade for Halladay:

Phil Hughes
Austin Jackson
Andrew Brackman
Robinson Cano/Melky Cabrera
Ian Kennedy

"Wow, Yankee fans are so diluted."

So the entire Yankee fanbase has been made thinner by the addition of water or another liquid. Good one, bro. Good one.

"When are people going to listen. Hanson is "untouchable," meaning he's not going to be TRADED. Not for Peavy, not for Halladay, not even for A-rod or Sabathia or Webb or any other player you want to mention.

Stop being so dense."

You're the dense one if you believe Hanson wouldn't be traded for the right player/package.

EVERYONE, with maybe the exception of Albert Pujols, is available for the right price.

red sox trade for Halladay

Clay Buchholz
Lars Anderson
Michael Bowden
1 Double A prospet
my left testicle

"realistic yankee trade for Halladay:

Phil Hughes
Austin Jackson
Andrew Brackman
Robinson Cano/Melky Cabrera
Ian Kennedy"

I would say Hughes, Cano, Montero and Betances undoubtedly gets it done.

That's a lot.

"Giving credit for pitching in the AL East compared to the NL West I think it's reasonable to say that the pitchers are very equal."

How much credit are you giving?

I think in this case the difference in leagues contributes significantly to any disparity in stats.

Hanson is untouchable for Peavy. I don't think anyone is untouchable for Halladay. Wasn't Salty untouchable? How about Craig Hansen? Adam Jones? You think if they offered Halladay for Hanson straight up that Hanson would be untouchable? Semantics. Negotiation strategy.

phils:
You think that 2 years of Halladay (a 31 year pitcher, and Ace none-the-less) is worth Joba AND MORE? Joba is a 23 year old starter who promises to be the next Yankee Ace! And seriously if the Yankees didn't offer Hughes AND Kennedy for Santana, what makes you think that they would offer JOBA!?!
And I would understand if the Jays traded him out of division, but if the asking price is Joba high for him, then its just better to sit back, wait for the 2 years to be over and then offer him a 5 year contract at some ridiculous amount of $.

Bjsquess, Peavy and Halladay are pretty equal in skills. But where Halladay is more attractive is the commitment - if he blows out his arm in May, which doesn't seem likely, he's gone in two years. If Peavy does the same, you're stuck with him for 4, plus that $20+ million option at the end.

Razor, i can understand that, but that wouldnt happen, an inter-division trade would never happen anyway, i dont know how we even got on this topic anyway, i just wanted to make a joke about my left testicle more then anything lol

aguirrem2,

Yes i do. And when do the Yankees not keep a player under their control so don't make like its 2 years and then he's gonna bolt for more money with the Marlins.

Joba, while very good so far is a much more unproven commodity than Halladay. Also, and mark my words, he's out of position. He should be their 8th inning guy until Mariano retires and then take over the closer role. This coming year the hitters in the AL will adjust to him and his stats will come back to earth. I know you want him to be the second coming, but he's gotta prove it first. So yes you start there and go on from there.

peavy and halladay are not pretty equal in skills. halladay is the best pitcher in baseball, pitching in the al east. peavy is very good in the NL west.

and yeah - 2 yrs of halladay is worth joba and more. get a grip. joba has yet to pitch more than 200 innings without getting hurt.

daslied, if Halladay blows out an arm (12-18 months), you've traded your starting SS and best prospects for nothing. If Peavy does the same, you've still got 3 1/2 years of service from him (Mike Hampton is the only "3-year injury" I'm aware of).

Halladay is great, but I don't see the Braves offering nearly the same package for a 2-year commitment as they have for a 27-year-old under contract for 5 years.

I agree with the original premise, which is that the Dodgers have both the young talent to spare, and the future payroll flexibility (once Andruw and Schmidt are off the books) to replace or sign him in 2 years.

Just don't see the Braves as players in a Halladay sweepstakes.

actually my left testicle has good defense and bats 400 to left field, but sadly its under contract to me for the rest of my life, so....

Halladay is not going to be moved. J.P. Ricciardi is a wildly unpopular figure among most Jays fans & there is absolutely no way ownership would let him trade Roy Halladay.

That said, I think that any package would require a young, already established player (a Jose Reyes type guy) & then at least 2 more HIGH ceiling prospects & then you'd still have to add a bit more.

"Joba, while very good so far is a much more unproven commodity than Halladay. Also, and mark my words, he's out of position."

Sure he may be prone to injury and has to "prove" himself.

But...

175 high leverage innings as a starter >>>>>>>>>>>>> 75 high leverage innings as a reliever.

He is more valuable in the rotation plus the Yanks have a decent bullpen. It isn't a bad idea to start him in the pen to save him for down the stretch but if he isn't starting eventually it's a waste of that talent.

Let's not forget that Jake Peavy pitches in the best pitcher's park in the Majors and his stats reflect it:

Home - Career 2.77 ERA

Away - Career 3.80 ERA

Away from PETCO, Peavy is still an ace calibre pitcher, but to say he is at Halladay's level is absurd

Kenan and Kel,

yes their bullpen is decent but it could be lockdown like it was in the days of Mariano setting up for Wetteland and like the Phils was down the stretch with Madson and Lidge. Shortening the game will help them more in the long run and if they're going to spend 500 million on 4 new starting pitchers then all the better for them.

Phils, that's just not true. Joba has shown that his stuff doesn't dramatically differ from the pen to the rotation so he's going to be far more valuable in 2x or 3x the innings pitched, regardless of leverage. Otherwise, your logic would dictate than any good SP should actually be used as a lights out reliever. We saw what happened with SP injuries last year; its far easier to backfill 30 innings in the pen than 15 starts in the rotation.

Not to mention the Yankees are not guaranteed to land a single FA pitcher. Yes their the favorites for CC and will be after Lowe/Burnett etc but they still have two holes to fill and no one to fill them as of yet.

"Mike Hampton is the only "3-year injury" I'm aware of"

Have you forgotten about Carl Pavano so soon?

Another reason to favor Halladay over Peavy: He pitches complete games, Jake doesn't.

Wren may take the untouchable tag off of Hanson if Halladay is available -- but only if the deal is for not more than three players, say Hanson, Gorkys and one other prospect (Flowers)?

I'd be shocked if Wren deals Hanson and Escobar in the same transaction, unless the Jays threw in McDonald.

And McDonald ain't no Yunel.

"What's the bread situation looking like on that sandwich? If it's rye, it's pretty much a done deal..."

if i say the bread is white, will ken rosenthal write an article calling me a racist?

Did anyone pencil in Madson as a shutdown 8th inning guy prior to 2008? The Yanks have enough arms, and enough money, to fill whatever void Joba's departure from the pen would create.
"

Not at all and in fact in 2007 he was bumped for a period of time from the 7th/8th to the 6th inning around the time of his injury, and yes relievers are extremely volatile so why not entrust it to someone you know, like JOBA will perform.

Of if you could prefer you could go the Mets route for the last 2 years and throw darts at a board.

appreciate the clarification.. but they're not both really good.

according to richard justice: In the past two seasons, Peavy has recorded just 16 outs after the seventh inning.

he's just very good. halladay is otherworldly. stop comparing them.

i wouldn't be surprised if ricciardi was "quietly shopping" halladay (though, why he'd leak it to a cut-rate jersey paper escapes me...) - he could re-stock his team for years to come. he's never worried about being popular.

They have to be ahead through the first six though.

ya but with Manny, AROD, Teixeira, Jeter, Dimaggio they should be able to come back if down against anyone.

Whoops. Did i add a dead guy? Sorry I got carried away with my Yankees free agent shopping.