Rosenthal's Latest: Peavy, Wilson

How about this three way deal?

Cubs get: Brian Roberts, Jake Peavy
Orioles get: Felix Pie, Sean Marshall, Mitch Adkins
Padres get: Garrett Olson, Josh Vitters, Donnie Veal, Tyler Colvin

Hard to picture a team with a legitimate chance at the playoffs willing to take marquis and be willing to pay him even half of the 9 million he is due. A innings eater in the NL, but not effective at all, nor of much use period in the AL and why would the Padres want him at any price?

TheGrinch- If the Padres want Veal, they can get him in the Rule 5 draft. Veal's stock is in the floor. Anyone can have him quintessentially for free.

That isn't nearly enough going to the Padres for Peavy. Olson's stock has fallen crazy.

"TheGrinch- If the Padres want Veal, they can get him in the Rule 5 draft. Veal's stock is in the floor. Anyone can have him quintessentially for free."

That's not completely true. Adding Veal through the Rule V draft means that you have to give him a spot on the 40 man roster or send him back to his original team. Does anyone really think that a team would want to put Veal on their 40 man roster? Doesn't seem terribly likely considering that he doesn't seem terribly close to being a solid major league pitcher

"That's not completely true. Adding Veal through the Rule V draft means that you have to give him a spot on the 40 man roster or send him back to his original team. Does anyone really think that a team would want to put Veal on their 40 man roster? Doesn't seem terribly likely considering that he doesn't seem terribly close to being a solid major league pitcher"

I agree with scribbletone Donald Veal will be a rule 5 draftte and I think that Veal will be picked number 3 by the Padres he might and might could be and I am not saying he will be Johan Santana. maybe?

These are the three players that I want in the rule 5 draft:
Donald Veal, Chris Mason, and a position player

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/11/the_2008_rule_5.php

"Why are the Pirates so stubborn in giving up Jack Wilson? They should be jumping at the chance to get rid of him and his obscene contract. He's garbage."

You base everything on how well he hits I guess. He is one of the best defensive SS in the league. He hits out of the 8 hole for the Pirates what do you think his OPS will be? No he will never hit 20 HR's but hitting .300 wouldnt suprise me but his real value is his glove and range.

Getting Hu who can field but shows no sign of hitting makes no sense if the Pirates are not getting something else that makes them better. Young is no better than Moss.

I hope the Pirates dont trade him unless they get better than what LAD is offering.

Sometimes I wonder where Rosenthal gets his "suggestions." Can someone explain to me what's in it for the Giants, with their pitching depth, to take on Marquis if they aren't getting anything else out of it?

Wouldn't be such a bad deal to see the Dodgers get involved to take Marquis + cash from the Cubs. He would benefit from the big park and the 2-3 ABs a game of his own (remember, Marquis is an excellent hitter) and the Dodgers wouldn't have to use him any higher than a 4th, if not 5th starter. Perhaps the following:

Cubs: Peavy
Padres: Vitters, Xavier Paul, Sean Marshal, Hu
Dodgers: Jason Marquis + cash

"I don't get this speculation people have been posting. The pads don't particularly want a 3B - so why not flip vitters to the orioles in return for pitching prospects?

Cubs get: Peavy
Orioles get: Vitters, Pie
Padres get: Tillman/Matusz, Sean Marshall, Olson, Ronny Cedeno and another B/B- prospect from the cubs."

I agree with Sam. No way the O's we include Tillman in any deal, but they would seem to be more interested in Vitters then SD. Maybe the O's could give up that Liz kid. BUt anyways, I agree with the idea of your post. Vitters to the O's along with Pie, Marshall and and other prospects (from Cubs/O's) to SD, and Peavy to the Cubs.

that seems to make the most sense assuming there are any pitching prospects the O's are willing to deal and SD would want.

Buck Henry: Look at the Giants bottom of the rotation. Zito -whose first half struggles are well documented. Lowry who may never pitcher over 100 IP in a major league season again. Sanchez - a pitcher that has yet to show he can produce over 125 quality IP in the majors. After that what is there? Joseph Martinez- a guy he does not profile has a top of the rotation type pitcher and put up good number in AA Conn which is a very pitcher friendly park so his number should be regarded a bit of a jaded eye. Am I mising any one?

I would not give up much for the privilege to pay 9.78M to Marquis next year but his skills between the chalk lines could serve a purpose for the Giants. Epically if it was part of a packaged that addressed another area at the same time.

First I want to say that Braves fans you are not getting Peavy so don't come on posts saying that your deals are better. Your GM moved on and you should too.

Is their anyway that Cubs could trade Marquis in some sort of package to the Dodgers to get Hu? And then spin him around to the Padres. Then they could trade Greene to the Reds, Giants, Blue Jays for someone.

Cubs send- Marquis, Colvin, Cash
Cubs get- Hu, another low level minor leaguer
Cubs send- Hu, Marshall, Vitters, Veal, Pie, Hart, and another player possibly for Peavy.

Im really finding it funny there's all this fawning over a guy who's career has been defined by playing in the most pitcher-friendly park of all time, a guy who sports nearly a career 4 ERA on the road. He was 4.28 last year. Cubs fans, you want a 4.28ERA pitcher for all your prospects? You are insane, this will blow worse than the Bedard to Seattle deal.

Peavy's a #2-3 starter at best away from SD. Buyer beware Peavy's home/road splits are hard to ignore.

the grinch thats a terrible idea.

@daveinexile:

Henry Sosa, Matt Cain, Tim Alderson, Madison Bumgarner, and others add to the Giants' pitching depth. Tim Lincecum is only the tip of the iceberg, and Alderson/Bumgarner are coming off of fantastic 2008 seasons, winning the MiLBY in their respective A classes.

But I digress. Marquis' only drawback is his $9 million salary. Otherwise, he is the ideal back-end starter for any NL team regardless of perceived pitching depth. The Cubs' willingness to part ways and dole out some cash -- let's say, $5 million to make Marquis' contract match that of a Tim Wakefield -- makes for a more interesting trade piece than many are willing to admit.

Ideally, in a three-team scenario, Vitters would be an Oriole and either Cedeno or Fontenot a Padre. Both GMs have interest in Pie (I cannot fathom why), so it seems that whichever team needs more compensation -- the Padres, in this case -- would get him. And either team can benefit from a Marquis, though I feel his presence in the NL would serve him and his team better.

I suppose we will have to see what comes of this fodder. Much like Chicago, there is a lot wind being blown about this deal with very little action behind it.

Athletic_Domination....

With the Cubs' pursuit of Peavy, they aren't looking for a #1 starter. They have Zambrano as their ace. It doesn't matter where the Cubs would put Peavy, a rotation of:

Zambrano
Peavy
Dempster
Lilly
Harden

would honestly frighten any major league team.

CubsForgas why put Zambrano in front of peavy?

How about this:

Orioles get: Derrick Lee, Khalil Greene
Cubs get: Jake Peavy, Brian Roberts
Padres get: Ramon Hernandez, DeRosa, Vitters, Marshall, Pie, Cedeno & Hill.

Everyone happy now?

Let's see.

The Padres, who don't want to take on any salary, are now taking back Hernandez and his $8m salary? Plus DeRosa's $5m for 09 and $5.5m for 10.

The O's are trading a superior middle infielder for an significantly inferior one (Roberts for Greene). In exchange for that they get the privilege of having Lee take over for Huff. Of course Huff posted a 912 OPS with 32 bombs compared to Lee's 823 OPS and 20 HR's.

From the O's perspective - why not just move Roberts separately? Certainly they can do better than a declining slugger at 1B and a SS coming off a 600 OPS season. Couldn't they find better value in FA and still retain Roberts? The only way the O's get involved is if the deal is a slam dunk for them. The big pieces are between the Pads and Cubs. They won't be taking one under the chin to help those two teams facilitate a deal.

Yes, I realize that Zambrano and Harden have very "scary" stuff. I'll admit that Dempster has to prove that this past year wasn't a fluke. Lilly is still very consistent. And Peavy, well, he was the Cy Young Award winner in 2007...and I'd trust a rotation with two pitchers that have "scary" stuff, a pitcher one year removed from a Cy Young Award season, and two 17 game winners from 2008 more than I'd trust any rotation in the major leagues.

Wow! The Padres get a boatload of spare parts and crap for Peavy and Greene!

That makes sense!

Hernandez and DeRosa are exactly who the Padres want to rebuild their team around.

Hill is a headcase.

Pie is a failed prospect!

If Cedeno were an everyday player he would have emerged on the Cubs by now!

BLEEDINGCUBBIEBLUE,

I'm pretty sure the only reason the Braves alleged offer was mentioned was because Towers clearly didn't think it was enough value in return for Peavy. Whether or not the Braves get back into discussions for Peavy, it seems clear that the Cubs will need to put together a better package than the Braves offered, or at the very least a similar package. The point was that a package of Garrett Olson, Josh Vitters, Donnie Veal, and Tyler Colvin seems pretty light compared to what the Braves offered and thus wouldn't be enough for KT to pull the trigger. The Braves offer serves mostly as a measuring stick at this point for what a team needs to beat, not because the Braves have that offer on the table, but because it was on the table and KT didn't think it was enough.

Make sense?

I'd say Fontenot, Marshall, Vitters, and then Olson from Baltimore plus two O's prospects from Baltimore for Greene if he's traded to the O's.

I'm a diehard Cubs fan and wish they would include Harden to the Pads and pay part of his salary...but it won't happen. If Marquis is traded, probably will be to the O's. Yeah, Braves deal is better. Who know's what's going to get done.

Can anyone explain as to why a third team may have not been brought up in the talks with the Braves? I find it hard to believe Frank Wren would not have tried that for Peavy.

"Why would the Orioles give Brian Roberts away for that junk, much less add Olson?"

Ditto.

Cubs fans, stop the stupid trade offers!

The Orioles are not interested in trading anyone named Wieters, Arrieta, Matusz, or Tillman in what is a side trade. Vitters is a very good prospect and the Orioles or any team would love to have the player, but, not at the expense of changing the organizational philosophy by trading away elite prospect. This is just dreaming on the part of Cubs fans.

It's this same Cubs fan hype that resulted in the Cubs holding onto all of the players/prospects last year in the Brian Roberts rumors. Most of which was pretty moderate values. Even if heavily Oriole favouring versions went through, the Os would have lost out considering the disappointing years by Pie and Hill.

iowacubs,

your a dumbass why would you want to trade Harden. He is argueably the Cubs best pitcher right now. And I heard they will try to sign him during the season to a 4 year deal.

So pretty much Lilly and Marquis are gone along with DeRo I say.
If they get Peavy Cubs big 3 will be around for a while.
Peavy
Zambrano
Harden
Dempster
Samardzija

Ya'll probably right but I still think if Wren and Towers were good buddies like he and the Cubs GM, it would have gotten as far as getting another team involved. I could be wrong but I don't think they'll(Wren and Towers) be hanging and drinking beer anytime soon!

"It's this same Cubs fan hype that resulted in the Cubs holding onto all of the players/prospects last year in the Brian Roberts rumors."

Yes, because we all know that Jim Hendry consults Cubs fans, specifically 14-year-olds on message boards, before making any moves.

All fans overvalue their players/prospects -- deal with it or quit reading Cubs-related rumors.

All this talk about the Cubs is because Towers didn't like the deal and Peavy told the Padres if he goes anywhere, he wants it to be Chicago.

"Yes, because we all know that Jim Hendry consults Cubs fans, specifically 14-year-olds on message boards, before making any moves.

All fans overvalue their players/prospects -- deal with it or quit reading Cubs-related rumors. "

I only mention this because the hype around the Cubs system is at an extreme right now. The system is pretty thin right now. There is some high potential guys in the lower levels, but that's the mark of a thin system. There's a reason why the Cubs need to bring in a 3rd team. They don't have a lefty starting pitching prospect to entice the Padres right now. I think for a guy like PEavy you're fair to ask for a top righty pitcher, top lefty pitcher, and top position prospect. The Cubs don't quite all of those parts. Vitters is an excellent prospect but he's so young and so low in the minors that it will take him a while to reach. A lot can happen between now and 3 years.

Why is sean marshall a good player?? Can someone tell me why he is sooo good??

Cubs or Braves fan if u want Jake Peavy really badly, put Brian Giles and Khalil Greene in the trade to get tons of prospects in return:
Padres get from Cubs for Giles, Peavy, and Greene: Vitters,Marshall,Cedeno,Fontenot,Pie, Harden,Samardzija,Hart
Padres get from Braves for Peavy, Giles, and Greene:
Flowers,Hernandez,Hanson,Rohrbough,Marak,Escobar,Reyes or Morton,Jones
too much?? too little??
I no that is not going to happen but maybe??

BLEEDINGCUBBIEBLUE:

Your the dumbass for wanting sign Harden to a 4-yr deal. How stupid can you get? Name me one season he's been healthly. I dare you.

Oh, if I'm a dumbass, better call David Kaplan one as well. He's the guy who hosts a local chicago talk show on tv. He doesn't think keeping Harden was a very good idea, either.

Peavy or Harden? If the other team wants Harden to get Peavy. I'm taking Peavy. Sounds to me like you want Harden. Huh?

I wouldn't say that you won't be good this year, but I do see the logic in thinking that the cubs have an easier road than the braves. You do have the Phillies and Mets within your division and the Cubs don't have as much competition. I do think that the Braves will be back to form in a year or two, but I don't know if they have as good of a shot as the cubs, short term anyway.

I don't see this deal going through at all. The Cubs need to get another pitcher but I don't really see it being Peavy. They don't have the financial flexibility or the prospects to get it done. I'm a die hard Cubs fan but I'm not sure i want to see Peavy in the cubs uni. Why does San Diego want to unload him so much? He first experienced arm problems this year and I read somewhere that he is throwing more breaking balls than ever right now....
It all smells trouble.

Sean Marshall is not a particularly "good" player. He has a mid-rotation ceiling (SP3) as an innings-eater. He's neither a strikeout hawk nor a significant win-share provider, but he has promise and a cheap contract. If he were a "good" player, it would not require the inclusion of three or four other players to sell him in any package deal.

This transaction hinges entirely upon the inclusion of Orioles players or prospects. I can see them including Ramon Hernandez and a pitcher or two in getting Khalil Greene and a Cub TBD. That way, Matt Weiters has an open spot on the 2009 roster. But as is, the Cubs do not have nearly enough to get this done. Cubs fans (unlike myself) are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

Let us see what the Orioles and McFail (misspelling intended) want to acquire and speculate from there. Until then, this remains wild hearsay.

iowacubs-

Just ignore Bleedingcubbieblue like everyone else does. As you can see from any of his posts on any Cub related thread on this entire site, pretty much everything he says is completely assinine. He has yet to grasp the concept of a payroll budget, the need for a balanced LH-RH lineup or any of the other countless things that myself and other posters have tried to explain to him. He still doesn't understand that Samardijza is not ready to be a starting pitcher, and especially with the bullpen in it's current condition, is NEEDED in the latter innings despite having that spelled out for him several times on various threads. He's the kind of person that makes your average Cub fan look like an idiot and just needs to go stick to his XBox.

Here's a primer on the Cubs system from John Sickels:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/11/29/675375/chicago-cubs-top-20-prospe

As of right now the only way this deal is attractive to the Orioles is if the Cubs can entice the Os into trading Olson. Between Olson's upside and Pie's tarnished elite status, a straightup deal might do it. Maybe a throw in or so.

I've been checking on different blogs, rumors and what ever else that I can come across and I can not find anything that is realistic or better than what the Braves have offered. The cubs are short on money and have class A free agent Wood to offer arbitration to. If they don't they won't get the Draft picks. Wood will most likely take arbitration if it is offered to him, which will defiantly leave them with less money to fit Peavys contract. Even with the O's it is very unlikely in my opinion.

Then as the winter meetings start up Towers is going to drag Angels into this mess as much as he can for more competition. Cubs even with a third team will be out matched for the Angels or the Braves. Towers will try to start up talks with the Braves again to match against the Angels. If Angels lose out on getting C.C. then they might be competition for Peavy, but if they sign C.C. that will leave just the Braves as the only realistic option for the Padres.

Then if Towers drags this out till the F.A market dries up the Padres are really going to get screwed on this deal because the Braves will change their offer.

Would I like to see the Cubs land Peavy??? Of course, Harden is fragile and a FA after 09 Marquis is also a FA after 09. Lilly is a FA after 10. But to rape the farm system for an ace is crazy. Big Z is the ace (tho not as good) as Peavy. If the Cubs want another pitcher there are cheaper alternatives for a MID rotation starter. Yes Peavy and Big Z would be 1 and 2 but the rotation of Z Lilly Dempster Harden is pretty good. Now on to the fans wanting Brian Roberts, the Cubs dont need him---yes they need a lefty hitter but in RF or CF not 2nd base. Roberts is better in some regards than DeRosa but not drastic to merit adding an additional $8 million salary. DeRosa will play OF but is more comfortable at 2nd. Roberts will get approx 100 more at bats and give you 29 more runs 6 more xbase hits 35 stolen bases BA/OBA/SA are about the same.And what we the Cubs give uo for him??? McPhail will rape a teams farm system to trade any one on his team. Just remember what hid did to the Astros and Mariners.

"I've been checking on different blogs, rumors and what ever else that I can come across and I can not find anything that is realistic or better than what the Braves have offered. The cubs are short on money and have class A free agent Wood to offer arbitration to. If they don't they won't get the Draft picks. Wood will most likely take arbitration if it is offered to him, which will defiantly leave them with less money to fit Peavys contract. Even with the O's it is very unlikely in my opinion.

Then as the winter meetings start up Towers is going to drag Angels into this mess as much as he can for more competition. Cubs even with a third team will be out matched for the Angels or the Braves. Towers will try to start up talks with the Braves again to match against the Angels. If Angels lose out on getting C.C. then they might be competition for Peavy, but if they sign C.C. that will leave just the Braves as the only realistic option for the Padres.

Then if Towers drags this out till the F.A market dries up the Padres are really going to get screwed on this deal because the Braves will change their offer."

Couple of things to say here. First, just because a bad offer is the best SD has got so far doesn't mean they should take it. It's still a bad offer. If that's all we're getting for Peavy, keep him.

Second, OI personally think the Angels will get involved no matter what. First, I can't imagine CC ending up anywhere else than NY. Second, I think the Angels are most likely viewing CC as plan B if they fail to sign Texeira. It's too good of a match to be ignored.

Finally, even if this does drag on until the FA market is dry, some teams who have been priced out of all the good FA's (quite possibly the Braves BTW) may get desperate and give in.

zambrano is a headcase and I do not trust him I wouldn't put him in the same sentence as Peavy either.

EVERYONE!!!

Peavy wasn't traded to Atlanta for this reason:

Are you listening Braves fans?

He has a no trade clause!

He said NO to a trade to Atlanta!

THE END.

funny i seem to remember the braves being a team he said he'd go to and i seem to remember the "three finalists" as being the dodgers cubs and braves