Yankees "What If": No A.J., CC, Lowe?

Here is a plan B that's better than plan A:

Trade for Peavy. Sign Sheets and either Penny or O Perez.

Peavy, Sheets, Wang, Joba and Penny/Perez.

When healthy, that rotation is just as nasty and will cost a LOT less.

Yea, there is Sheets and Penny. Both are injury prone but so is Burnett. When healthy, Sheets is much better. Perhaps Wang, Sheets, Peavy or Penny, Pettitte, and Hughes? I really don't want to see Joba in rotation. He's great, but much better in pen. And besides Mo, we got no one else who is dependable.

jman120,

Our bullpen was really good last year. Joba won't be needed in the pen when we got the likes of Coke Aceves Marte Veras Bruney and others waiting like Albaladejo etc. we are set at the Pen. Peavy... i just dont see it happening due to the face that if he does come here, he would want a Santana or Sabathia type extension.. not happening

"1. Wang - Won 19 games back to back and was well on his way to another great season before a FREAK ACCIDENT occured. The guy is an Ace, and people need to forget strikeouts and look at the fact that when he pitches, the Yankees win.

2. "

2. ??? Did you go away? I want to hear #2

"There are several (Sheets and Perez come to mind) that have more upside than Lowe"

You do realize that Lowe was just about the best pitcher in baseball the last month and a half of the season, and is just about the best postseason pitchers in the game, right? That, and he never gets hurt.

Alright, people need to ease up on the need for two or three starters. That's a crock if you ask me, because lets look at the facts.

1. Wang - Won 19 games back to back and was well on his way to another great season before a FREAK ACCIDENT occured. The guy is an Ace, and people need to forget strikeouts and look at the fact that when he pitches, the Yankees win.

2. Pettitte - Yeah, he struggled down the stretch. But he won fourteen games and had a respectable ERA with all the pressure in the world on him. I remember countless times, "Pettitte and Mussina have to win every game for the rest of the year if the Yankees have a chance" was uttered. Other than August, when he posted a 5.84 ERA, he pitched quite well for us and is better than people give him credit for.

3. Chamberlain - Dominated in both the bullpen and the rotation, but got injured and it totally threw his season into a down-whirl spiral and had people saying he might never be able to start. Bogus crap is you ask me.
Pettitte

4. Hughes - Biggest over-reaction in baseball. He only allowed more than three runs in three of his eight games, he only allowed three home runs over those eight games, and never walked more than four batters. Obviously, he dominated in the minors when he was rehabbing from injury, and his AFL stats have been impressive. He's not nearly the flop that people make him out to be, he just hasn't had the time on the mound he's needed to adjust to the big leagues.

5. Kennedy - Well, he sucks. No question there. But Aceves, Coke, or Giese could hold their own.

Now, I'm not going to pretend that we can just roll into the season and win. Don't get me wrong. But if we can get Sabathia, I don't see a need for Burnett or Lowe, let alone both of them. Sabathia-Wang-Pettitte-Joba-Hughes is more than enough, that rotation would be great. What we need is Teixeira. With all the money that went out, our number one priority should be getting CC and Teixeira into pinstripes.

Rotation: Sabathia-Wang-Pettitte-Joba-Hughes
Lineup: Damon-Jeter-Teixeira-Rodriguez-Matsui-Posada-Cano-Swisher-Gardner/Cabrera

That's a pretty damn good team right there, let's get there. If you have to add a starter, do it by trading Xavier Nady while his value is high. Cuz in case you didn't notice, I left him out of the lineup and put Swisher in right field with Melky and Gardner battling it out for center field.

One thing they didn't factor in on CC going to New York is endorsements. You best believe that Sabathia will get pletny of endorsement money in NY.

I would laugh so hard if..

CC goes to LAD/LAA/SF/MIL
Burnett goes to ATL/BAL
Lowe goes to BOS/NYM
TEX goes to LAA/BAL/WAS
Manny goes to LAD/PHI
Sheets goes to HOU/MIL

How embarassing would that be for NYY fans who think that everyone just would LOVE to play for them.

Plan B would be getting jake Peavy and then spending more moeny on Tex(which we should be doing now).

I pray that we don't sign Burnett or Lowe.
As for C.C I've stated before I'd rather have Tex anchoring the middle of the lineup.

I'd love to see what Sheets could do in the AL, yeah he's injury prone but he has #1 stuff when healthy and would likely take less than Burnett.

This rotation would be more than capable of handling the Rays and Sox IMO.

1)Wang
2)Peavy
3)Sheets
4)Pettitte
5)Aceves/Chamberlain/Hughes(both aren't ready to take the full load yet.

If that rotation stays in tact then in 09 a rotation of
Wang
Peavy
Sheets
Chamberlain
Hughes
becomes the premier 1-5 in the league.

Yeah I know, people are going to say Peavy won't accept a trade to the AL and Sheets won't hold up a full season(get in line) but I'd love to see that in action.

Some people, including the creater of the post are missing the obvious. If CC and Lowe somehow slip through Yankees fingers, they will give Burnett whatever he wants and vice versa.

"what if the Yankees fail to sign Burnett, Sabathia, and Derek Lowe?"

What's the problem? All we heard last preseason was how Hughes and Kennedy were going to blow the rest of the league away. Surely they'll be ready to do it this year.

Team ERA in 2008 4.28
Team ERA in 2007 4.49

Runs in 2008 789
Runs in 2007 968

We need offense over defense...if you dont get C.C. its not a big deal sign a good 3-4 starter and invest in the offense

Jman....
Joba was sent to the pen out of necessity, he has been a starter his whole career. Strikeout pitchers always have high pitch counts and as he becomes more experienced, chances are he will go deeper into games. By your logic, the Mets should have sent Santana to the pen. Why aren't more "ace" types converted to relievers?
What good is having a dominant 8th inning guy, if your starters cant get you to the 8th with a lead?

And obviously I dont care about naming the guy, but the point is, a dominant starter is more important than a dominant 8th inning guy.

We will get one that's obvious...

Phil Hughes is only 22!
Hughes will only get better. You guys will see the potential in Phil Hughes soon. All we need is CC and Tex. that's about it.. Offense wasnt so good last year. Upgrade the Offense and we will be fine. 4.49 Team ERA in 08 and 4.29 Team ERA in 07.

I know ppl have seen this a million times but 789 Runs in 08 as opposed to 968 in 07...

Enough said..

"what if the Yankees fail to sign Burnett, Sabathia, and Derek Lowe?"

I dont see a problem, since all the experts on this site keep telling us how CC's arm is going to fall off, AJ is going to be the next Pavano and Lowe will suck in the AL East.

omg ur a physic!!

no kidding i was thinking the same thing!!

i always dreamed of a wife that knows more baseball than me =]

Antone: "One thing they didn't factor in on CC going to New York is endorsements. You best believe that Sabathia will get pletny of endorsement money in NY."

Wendy's is already talking to him about a series of ads for the Baconater.

CC is the must have. If they sign him it automatically hels every other spot in the rotation. Wang may not be a #1 but he would be a great #2. Sheets/Burnett/Perez are a good gamble as a #3 choice but not to anchor and be the staff ace. Pettite shouldn't be counted on to ever win 18 games again but 12-14 wins, 200 innings w/ a 4.50 era as a #4 guy isn't bad. Joba as a #5 has less pressure and if he can give you 25 starts and 150 innings then great. I think Hughes should be a #6 guy and spell Joba or Pettite once every 3 or 4 starts as well as pitch long relief.

yanks78,

i only had CC and Wang in order for 1 and 2 i didnt put the 3,4,5 in order but i really like ur idea of the 3,4, and 5 very good rotation if u ask me

BTW u and yankeegirl49 always have a good perspective on the Yankees i love reading them =]

Here is my ideal staf for 09:

CC (28)
Wang (29)
Perez (27)
Joba (23)
Pettite (37)
Hughes (22)

A young power staff for the next 3 to 4 years (minus Pettite after 09).

oh man.... mRyAnkEe was at work till 4 and then college at 4:30 till 8!!!!!

ill get my chance.. btw how old are u really??

thank you sir.

My pronlem with Lowe is that he wasn't that great 4 years ago with the Sucks (5.00 era) and at his age and the # of years he would want we have to consider what would this deal look like 3 or 4 years from now. At least with Perez, despite control problems, he's young and relatively healthy , has nasty stuff and if he can find his control he's one of the best left handers in the game.

im starting to think that Ollie would look very good in a Yankee Uniform. He knows how to deal with The NY media. Walks are high but he has the ability to just dominate. He dominated the Yankees and the last game @ Shea he pitched very well against The Fish, just bad luck in an awful bullpen for the Mets.
Not to mention he is a lefty and just 27

i dont think we need anything for the bullpen we are good the way we are.. we need starters. Ollie Perez CC sabathia and any pettitte.. along with Tex and we are like a taco bell commercial: Good 2 GO!!

I agree about Bruney in the 8th. I was impressed with what I saw last season before he got hurt.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Bruney. Replace Robertson with him in the bullpen.

Mattchu...
I got scared when I saw Nomar..but then I saw your plan on how to use him and don't think thats a bad idea.

I don't think the Yanks will get CC and Tex but I am about 100% sure they will gwt one of them.

yankeegirl49....

Will you marry me?

this is definetly a first

i am a yanks fan in LA. and honestly, i was pissed when everyone thought theat the yanks woul just buy a rotation of cc-wang-lowe-burnett-joba. i loved that they were the yankees and could buy anyone they want, but this is just too far. including tex, the would give out contracts totaling 400million dollars! most teams in baseball arent worth 400 million! really that the yanks buy whoever they want ruin the whole offseason. i would like to see what the yanks do in panic mode, after givivng out 300 million in contracts last year, imagine if they had to settle for the pennys, nomars, perezs of the free agent market? like i said, im a yankee fan in LA, but when does it stop? now with hal running the show, i have a feeling its going to be a lot different(pulling CC contract). good luck to my beloved yanks having to have 1 normal offseason

Really? You don't see a big difference offensively between Teixeira and Giambi?

.308/.410/.552

vs

.247/.373/.502

33 hr 121 rbis w/ 97 walks vs 93 so's?

vs

36 hr 96 rbis w/ 76 walks vs 111 so's?

I see a big difference. Giambi is a one dimensional hitter where as Tex gives you power, obp and is a better contact and batavg hitter. Giambi can score runs 1 way...with a 500 ft hr. Tex can give you the 500 ft homer and a base hit single/double as well.

Tex base hits: 177 vs Giambi's 119

Tex xtra base hits: 74 vs Giambi's 55

Did somebody really say that Giambi and Teixeira are roughly similar???

Anyways, I'd be scared if Yankees 1) only get Lowe or 2) get no one from CC or AJ. Since that they seem to be conceding out of Burnett race, they better do a lot for offer to CC...

I wouldn't want next year's rotation filled with uncertainty.

I don't get this? Why are people worried about what the Yanks spend? And you have to stop making the "Yanks spent 400 mil" this off season comments. The Yanks handed out big EXTENSION deals to retain some of their best. I don't think the Yanks signed one player last year that wasn't already a Yankee (Posada, Rivera, Pettite and Arod). And what were suppose to do to replace:

a) C who hit well over .300 with power

b) The best closer in the game.

c) a 3B coming off of a MVP year with 50+ hrs and 150 rbis

d) A solid 15 win 200 inn starter.

People get real.

And as for this year are we suppose to sit back and not sign a FA SP and go into next year with Wang and Pettitte as the only pitchers who've logged more than 200 innings? We don't have the blue chip prospects to trade to get a #1 guy like Peavy, and honestly the few blue chips we have I'd like to use them for our own purposes (Hughes, Jackson, Montero, Betenances, etc). Next years SP crop doesn't get any better:

Starting pitchers
Josh Beckett - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Erik Bedard
Justin Duchscherer
Rich Harden
Tim Hudson - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
John Lackey
Cliff Lee - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Brett Myers
Brandon Webb - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout
Todd Wellemeyer

And as for our offense, we're coming off a season where the Yanks were down by a 150 runs scored fron 07 and two of our biggest guys Posada and matsui may or may not be healthy next year. Are we suppose to count on them AND lose Abreu and Giambi and not replace their offense?

Please people. C'mon Cash...back the Brinks truck up and start spending.

Also, you people are forgetting. With over 85 mil coming off the books:

CC- 25 mil
Burn/Perez/etc- 18 mil (high est)
Tex- 22 mil
Swisher- 5 mil

That totals 70 mil. So in actuality we can add all of those players and come in 10 mil under last years payroll. In addition we lose another $26 million off the books next year (Matsui, Damon and Nady's contracts expire).

yanks78, they will never understand.. because the yanks have the highest payroll blah blah blah..... Yankees dont pocket their money.. they give the fans what they want and we follow up by giving it back y buying their merchandise attend games, etc. Seriously the spending too much money is really getting old. Tell ur teams GM and owners to put their money on the team and not pocket it...

YanskFanSince78: "Please people. C'mon Cash...back the Brinks truck up and start spending."

Seriously. Why bother to compete on organization, scouting, player development, and hard work when you can just buy a championship?

Little Bear, i imagine your a Cubs fan right? because if you are you should learn more about ur team than ours. maybe in your lifetime you will see 1 championship... and in my life time, i've seen about 4....

but if ur not a cubbie. Just stfu!!

Thank You

mryankee:

And you know what's crazy? If the Yanks do sign CC, Burnett/Perez/Sheets along with Tex we would really become a organization with some real depth.

2009

CC, Wang, Burnett/Perez, Pettitte and Joba (w/ Hughes as the 6th man) then assuming everyone's healthy then we don't have to worry about SP next season which isn't very good anyone.

in 2010 we can go CC, Burnett/Perez, Wang, Joba and Hughes.

w/ Kennedy, Sanchez, Betaneces, Aceves, Horne, Wright, Igawa, Brackman, Bleich and McAllister waiting in the minors.

If we sign Tex then for 09 we have:

1B-TEX
2B-CANO
SS-JETER
3B-AROD
C-POSADA
LF-DAMON
CF-MELKY/GARDNER
RF-NADY
DH-MATSUI

EXTRA-SWISHER

we can either dump Matsui for mid-level position prospects (mid-level meaning projects/reclamation players) and cash or

in winter of 09 we let Matsui and Damon walk. We can resign Nady if he has a good 09 or let him walk as well. We could then make Swisher our starting LF with either Melky/Gardner/Jackson as out starting CF and possibly lead off hitter or we can go after:

OF- Bay, Crawford, Holliday, Crisp or Figgins

DH-Magglio or Vlad

C-Victor Martinez or Bengie Molina and move Posada to DH. bengie can hold down the spot until Montero or Romine are ready in 2010 or 2011.

SS-Khalil Green or Bobby Crosby and move Jeter to DH (even though he lacks the power of a DH).

So by being agressive this year and with the pick up of Swisher you really do have some flexibility going into winter of 09 and can take your time with some of the younger prospects in A and AA.

yanks78,

not to mention, that if any of our pitchers go down there is a very good crop of FA SP after the 09 season:

Josh Beckett
Erik Bedard
Justin Duchscherer
Rich Harden
Tim Hudson
John Lackey
Cliff Lee
Brett Myers
Brandon Webb
Todd Wellemeyer

youre right, if we are agressive we can have a solid 1 though 4 rotation of CC wang Perez joba for 3 to 4 years. and we know that Hughes will get better and out of those young guns in the minors, one will step up if they havent already have (coke and Aceves)

all in all, it would be great if we got the players we mentioned.. and i actually think it will happen with Cash up there

Kind of appropriate that our Gm's name is Cash-Man

he is our super hero lol

im truly sorry JohnS
i was hoping i wouldnt insult anyone but fans like little Bear give ur team a bad Rep.

Since my yankees didnt make it i was truly pulling for the Cubs. Besides i actually have a family member in their organization (Marcos Mateo)
well he's my 3rd cousin but still a little bit of blood lol

The only one of those three that Yankees really need to worry themselves with signing if they fail to sign the other two is CC Sabathia. After CC, the Free Agent pitchers are either in the later years of their careers or injury prone.

If none of them come to the Yankees, oh well, but only one of them is worth blowing other offers out of the water for and that is CC. If he doesn't sign, life goes on.

Little Bear, i imagine your a Cubs fan right? because if you are you should learn more about ur team than ours. maybe in your lifetime you will see 1 championship... and in my life time, i've seen about 4....

but if ur not a cubbie. Just stfu!!

Thank You
someone took some estrogen pills

There are only two, maybe three truly high market teams right now, the Yankees atop them all. $$ doesn't guarantee anything, and considering 2008, it doesn't guarantee the playoffs either

but what all people that are baseball fans, even me, a yank fan for life, is pissed they buy everyone and still miss the playoffs(i wanted to kill someone) but they dont allow anyone else(lad, laa, nym, stl, and some mid marekt teams) the chance to get these free agents to give them the chance. the only reason that small-mid market teams have won, is homegrown talent, while all other large market teams have no chance

Wow....the Yanks did not sign a single player for their 08 team that wasn't already a member of the team in 05, 06 and 07 so stop the bull with the "buy every player" comment. Furthermore, we missed the playoffs once in 14 years. I've been a Yanls fan for the last 30 years and had to suffer thru the long droughts from 82-95. If missing the playoffs once makes you want to tie a rope around your neck , then please by all means send me your address and allow me to kick the chair from underneath you. Lastly, give me a f'n break!! This is competition. All of the owners are billionaires and if anyone of them including the Giants, Dodgers, Angels, Sucks, ChiSox, Cubs, Phillies, Rangers, Mets, Orioles (which really are not true small market teams) want to step up and cut a check for a player then fine. But the Yanks should never ever give a f*ck about how much money they have or who can and can't play in their financial neighborhood. We though CC was worth $140. We knew he wanted something better than Santana and we need an ACE. If someone wants him more than we do, then let them pull the check book out. People are always going to hate the Yanks for whatever stupid reason they have. So gine get mad because we pay the price for the players we want and hopefully that means long term competitiveness and a shot at the WS every year!!!! VIVA LA YANKEES!!!!!

We are sort of forgetting something here, say the Yankees do get Sabathaia and Burnett/ Lowe.

Ok, does that without a doubt give them a better rotation than Boston or Tampa? I don't believe so.

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Joba and Pettite is good, but so is Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Buchholz/ Masterson/ Bowden.

Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price and whomever survives.

These things are won on depth, and I would go with Boston and Tampa in that category.

Yanksfan..his point just proved yours since he had to go that far back to find early first round picks.

How is depth come into play when you're comparing a 5 man rotation? A rotation of CC, Wang, Burnett, Joba and Pettite is absolutely competitive with the Rays and the Sucks.

CC/Beckett/Kazmir= Adv NY/Boston
Wang/Daiske/Garza=Adv NY/Boston
Burnett/Lester/Shields=Adv NY/Boston
Joba/Wakefield/Jackson=Adv NY
Pettite/Insert Boston rookie/Sonnastine= At worst a draw.

"Joba/Wakefield/Jackson=Adv NY"

yeah alright

661dodger wrote:

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Joba and Pettite is good, but so is Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Buchholz/ Masterson/ Bowden.

Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price and whomever survives.

These things are won on depth, and I would go with Boston and Tampa in that category.

___________________

Where's the depth for Boston? All you mention were 4 starters and a few minor league pitchers? And for the Rays you mentioned 4 starters and didn't even mention E.Jackson. Your post is so obviously biased dude.

Ok here we go. You assumed the Yanks would sign CC and Burnett so lets go with that.

CC
Wang
Burnett
Joba
Pettite

Depth:
Hughes
Kennedy
Alceves
Coke
Igawa (yeah I said it)
Sanchez
Horne

That's our starting staff in AAA next year (assuming the Yanks sign Pettitte and Hughes starts in the minors).

661dodger wrote:

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Joba and Pettite is good, but so is Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield and Buchholz/ Masterson/ Bowden.

Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price and whomever survives.

These things are won on depth, and I would go with Boston and Tampa in that category.

well i didnt say that