Braves To Acquire Javier Vazquez

I heard Flowers is included. Hell yeah! 22-year-old On-base machine and power hitting catcher? I'm on board now.

Looks like the Braves are out on Peavy unless they dig into the "untouchables". Somewhere, I think Hendry is smiling as big as it gets right now

Vazquez is not worth Flowers straight up let alone with additional prospects. Surely Wren wouldnt make this deal.

Tell you the truth I think he should have won ROY, played various postions this year, also he did not strike out at all compared to Langoria. Langoria had .964 fielding avg. 12 errors,Ramirez had a .979 fielding avgerage, 13 errors with only 61 strikeouts, Langoria had 122K's.

"Brave fans, I hope Vazquez does well for you. He has great stuff, but when he is bad (Like Last year) it is extremely painful to watch...."

Yep. When he gets his stuff together, he will dominate a game. But 4 of every 5 games he pitches is just hard to watch as teams just bat him around. He will benefit from the NL though.

I-Cubs, Homer Bailey is absolutely nothing special at all. His stuff is just average and he won't get by with that at the ML level, which we have seen.
If Flowers is included, then the Braves got fleeced.

The Braves aren't anywhere near being out of the Peavy sweepstakes!! If it's not Reyes, I'll bet it's either Morton(hope not), Parr, or a lower pitching pros. Flowers wasn't in the Peavy talks, I don't think, so Escobar and the rest of that deal are still in place. I was hoping Flowers could be in a deal for a power bat, but you take what you can get when it comes to pitchers.

I hope Flowers being apart of the deal is pure speculation because that is WAY too much for a middle of a rotation type pitcher. To be honest, I could give a rats *you know what* about his Boone guy. Wren must be in love with LOOGYs. (Aybar trade last year anyone?).

Flowers in the deal ruins the whole thing. Javy is a 3rd starter at best. This is exactly what I was afraid of. I knew Wren was going to make some dumb trade and try to sell it as suring up the rotation. This guy hasn't been good since he left Montreal and now he's gonna turn it around ?? Give me a break.

Amazing that Flowers would be in the deal.

That being said, I know White Sox fans want to dump on him, but Vazquez HAS posted four straight years of league average pitching which may not sound like much, but is hard to find nowadays. 180+K the last four years and 200+ the last two. I love this guy as a buy low, and I could see him winning 15 with a high 3 ERA in Atlanta this year.

Yes, the Braves are CLEARLY out of the running for Peavy. They don't need him now, so if they decide to put an offer back on the table it will be worse than the one Towers did not accept, and Towers will not take a lesser deal.
Braves fans, you need to face the facts. The Braves were out of it WHEN THEY SAID THEY WERE OUT OF IT. This trade just further confirms that Peavy will not be a Brave.
Again, if Peavy doesn't expand his list, he won't be traded. The Cubs are probably going to go after that LH bat they covet so much, and probably don't have the prospects to get Peavy anyways unless they can get Samardzija to waive his no trade clause which won't happen.

Hate it.

How long is Vazquez under contract? Anyone? Flowers is at the height of his value, this makes no sense. Reminds me of the Joey Devine disaster.

Here's the thing braves fans dont get about trading Flowers (and Saltalamachia by extension) They are just trading chips bc they are blocked by one of the game's top catcher's McCann. All things considered it'd be nice to keep top guys, but Flowers is ultimately expendable and his value is through the roof right now. Might as well pull the trigger.

I'm fine with Vazquez for Lilibridge + pitcher & maybe even Flowers. I hope that pitcher is Jojo & not Morton though. I know Kenny R. says no on Jojo, but we'll see.

Yeah Metzfan, I remember Javier blowing a few big ones for the Yankees. That said: he's got great movement on his fastball & it seems like if he's happy where he's at, he can be a good pitcher.
If this is true (and I hope it is), Braves fans should be welcoming Vazqeuz.

"Here's the thing braves fans dont get about trading Flowers (and Saltalamachia by extension) They are just trading chips bc they are blocked by one of the game's top catcher's McCann. All things considered it'd be nice to keep top guys, but Flowers is ultimately expendable and his value is through the roof right now. Might as well pull the trigger. "

Posted by: Matty Ice | December 02, 2008 at 06:05 PM

I agree to an extent, but that doesn't mean you trade one of your more attractive pieces for an average pitcher just because Flowers is "expendable".

Id Dye isn't in this trade (which he likely isn't), then this means Wren isn't looking to get him to fill his LF spot. Wouldn't u think if we don't get Dyer now, we aren't gettin him at all?

And for the Peavy deal?? It's dead. Plain & Simple...

for all intents & purposes Wren just spent $11 mil of that $45 mil aimed toward upgrading the team, so that leaves sayyy $34 mil. Sign Burnett for $16-$18 mil per, that leaves MORE than enough $$ to find a bat for LF and pay some arb raises & Smoltz when he gets his arm back, and whatever else needs to be done...

Have faith Braves fans... we'll be just fine in '09

Braves can still get Peavy. This doesn't do us in.....still possible

Kenny took a chance too trading Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd and that looks to have turned out okay. I'm actually good with this for both sides, I would rather keep Flowers though, I think after a full season in double a his value would increase but I thought Scott Thorman's would too and how did that turn out? If we get AJ,or Peavy now we should be okay but I would still like to kick the tires on Paul Byrd and or Randy Wolf since we lost Hampton today, and I just don't trust Smoltz or Glavine to be good next year or Campillo or Morton either.

tsweet- if you think flowers holds a candle to wieters than you are unbelievably biased and just misinformed... he may end up being a very good hitter, but he isn't even likely to stick at catcher... please check your homerism at the door

"Sox fans dump on him because he never lived up to the hype. KW did not think he was getting an average pitcher. He thought he was getting a #1 starter thats, why they gave up so much to get him."

Not blaming you per say, but once a trade is made, it's done. I think it's not the best idea to sell low on a guy (Swisher, Vazquez, etc.) just because you are disappointed with what he produced compared to what you paid for him in a trade.

That being said, if it's Flowers in the deal, it's a nice coup for KW.

"127-129 career record with a 4.32 ERA...great just what the Braves need, another mediocre pitcher. Dumb move by ATL. What happened to the days of JS fleecing other teams out of players???"

Judging a player on W-L record is pointless. A player with a career 4.32 ERA with high Ks is a player who is going to succeed, and translate well to the NL.

"People can keep bringing up how Vazquez is an innings eater (and that's good to have). But I'm looking at other stats. Here's what they tell me...

Over the past 5 years, he has had an era under 4.40 only once.

But don't let those awesome numbers fool you, he is an impressive 63-61 during that span."

Again, no one judges a player on a W-L record. It is arbitrary. If you don't think Vazquez is at least a #3 in the NL, you're nuts.

Well Dave O'Brien of the AJC is pretty sure that the third piece of the deal is Flowers, unfortunately. But after soaking it in for a bit, if Wren can some how get Burnett to sign with the Braves, then I wouldn't mind a starting three of Burnett, Jurrjens and Vazquez. It's not the best, but it certainly isn't something to overlook.

I really think this is a solid deal for the Braves. Lillibridge has no future with the team. The Braves are either going to play Escobar or trade him and sign Furcal. Lillibridge has no shot of competing against Schaffer or others in the OF. He is decent at best in OF. JoJo is probably the guy given up. He is a solid SP. I hope they did not give up Flowers but if they did I thinks its still a strong trade. I'm sure Wren is still willing to acquire Peavy this is just a sign to show Towers he is a stubborn donkey! Hopefully we can land Burnett as rumored. If we add Burnett and a OF like Ibanez, Dunn or Abreu I will be a happy camper.

The Dodgers traded Dioner Navarro (along with Jae Seo) because Navarro was "expendable" considering they already had Russell Martin.

The steaming pile of craap received in return?: Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall.

I like Javy Vazquez, but GMs need to be careful trading "expendable" players just to shore up other areas.

"Agreed. But I think besides being disappointed with swishes and vazquez performance, KW is getting rid of these two guys to free up money for a good lead off hitter?...Juan Pierre maybe?"

I thought you said a good leadoff hitter...

Sorry Braves fans out there, the reality about Peavy is the only way you get him now, is to include Either Jason Heyward, or Tommy Hanson. I know they are untouchable but it's the reality of the situation.

Kevin Towers may be in a bad spot now, but not as bad as it looks. The Cubs know they are the front runners and probably don't need much to tip the scales. The Braves will try for A.J. Burnett but if the Yankees fail to sign either CC or Lowe, or both is likely, they are going to make an offer A.J. can't refuse. Ben Sheets will get a ton of offers from better teams, so he's unlikely. Unless the Braves want Oliver Perez, Randy Johnson, Brad Penny, John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, or Randy Wolf as their frontline ace, they will have to dig into their untouchables to land Peavy. And it will all happen at the winter meetings I'm sure.

As a sox fan I am glad to see them get rid of Vazquez. Sure he helped lead them to a Ring in 2005 but besides pitching alot of innings he can win a big game. Who cares if you can pitch a long time if you cant win.

And as far a swisher is concerned, another good move. I love swisher and the type of player he is but with Konerko at 1B, Thome DH, and Quentin and Dye takin care of the corners in the outfield there is not space to put a guy who batted .219

And finally, the ones who believe Ramirez is overrated... please check your numbers before you talk... and he'll be playing SS next season (his natural position) so a shortstop is not what the white sox need.

Simply the Sox need a speedy leadoff man and a center fielder. I like the new look of the White Sox, hopefully we can do more than just Hit homeruns this season.

Why would it take Heyward or Hanson now? None of these guys were part of the proposed Peavy deal. The Padres had the choice between JoJo and Morton and Morton is a better pitcher. No problem there. The Braves may have to up the offer a bit and give them Locke some one along those lines. I am not saying the Braves are going to get Peavy I am just explaining that this trade is relevant to a potential Peavy deal.

I'll admit that W-L can be very deceiving. I do not see how ERA is overrated at all. How many runs a pitcher lets score is the most important criteria. You can be awesome at everything as a pitcher, but if the runners still score, you're helping the other team.

"Sorry Braves fans out there, the reality about Peavy is the only way you get him now, is to include Either Jason Heyward, or Tommy Hanson. I know they are untouchable but it's the reality of the situation. "

Posted by: Nuschler's News | December 02, 2008 at 06:33 PM

But if that is the case, then explain to me HOW the Cubs are still in the running for Peavy? They have NO one, other than Vitters not, that has the ceiling those two have.

"Lastly, considering all the hype Alexei Ramirez gets from you Chicago guys, a .317 OBP= OVERRATED."

OBP is great, but there is a lot more to being a hitter.

Hopefully Thomas Hanson or Cole Rohrbough is the starter mentioned.

I hope the Thomas Hanson Cole Rohrbough thing is a joke.

"My point wasnt that Flowers is a better prospect than Wieters. My point was he clearly outplayed him in the Arizona fall league. I made the comparison to relate how good Flowers has been. One thing you cant deny is Flowers has much more power."

Posted by: tsweet9000 | December 02, 2008 at 06:40 PM

Others are just upset that the Braves have some very good prospects in a variety of positions (catcher, starting pitcher, relief, and outfield).

CptTopOff: How are the Cubs going to afford Peavy without finding a sucker for Marquis?

"Again, no one judges a player on a W-L record. It is arbitrary. If you don't think Vazquez is at least a #3 in the NL, you're nuts."

Agreed 100%. This is fair trade all around. Braves get a middle of the rotation innings eater, a lefty specialist and the Sox get their catcher of the future and a utility IF'er, plain and simple. Sounds fair to me.

Now with regards to Peavy, Flowers and Lillibridge were never mentioned before in trade talks with the Pads. The Braves are TOTALLY still in it for Peavy.

"Now with regards to Peavy, Flowers and Lillibridge were never mentioned before in trade talks with the Pads. The Braves are TOTALLY still in it for Peavy."

Flowers was.

"CptTopOff: How are the Cubs going to afford Peavy without finding a sucker for Marquis?"

I'm sure if they eat a little of the salary they'll be able to find someone for Marquis.

Peavy is going to the Braves or Angels. This trade will not effect acquiring Peavy, it actually gives Braves more leverage over Towers. The Cubs have been out of the Peavy deal since they got Dempster, they don't have the money or the pieces even with a third team that can compete with the Braves and Angels.

@ Boone Logan: nah nah nah. lol dont worry kid they're not saying boo, they're saying Booooooone. lol

So did the Sox just throw their hat in the CC ring??

tough,

I hope they sign Shane to a long term deal to buy out some arbitration years until Dominic Brown is up. Shane is just a winner, plain and simple

Cubbyfan: The Cubs would have to eat *most* of Marquis' contract which would defeat the purpose because you still won't have enough money for Peavy...

WATCH THE FREAKIN KID PLAY!!! OVERRATED = statistical evaluations.

Here are just a few #s from Vasquez in the '08 season:

- ERA= 4.67
- Record= 12-16
- WHIP= 1.32

Those are numbers from a pitcher past his prime. BRAVES, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP GOING AFTER THE OLD GUYS. YOU QUIT ON PEAVY TO GET THIS GUY, PITIFULL, NO PLAYOFFS AGAIN? SAD!

Vazquez was also 4th in the AL in Ks. That never hurts a team.

"Uhh actually he's capable at the very least. Look at what he did in 2007 in the AL while pitching in a hitters park. He's very capable of being a 2 starter."

What the hell did he do to demonstrate number 2 potential?

philsWSchamps

Signing Victorino longterm would be perfect for the phillies. even when Brown gets brought up Victorino still has the ability to move to another OF position. The OF in Philly has a bright future without a shadow of a doubt

''So did the Sox just throw their hat in the CC ring??''

Well-said. I'm still under the belief that Kenny Williams has something up his sleeve and a big signing or two is coming to the Southside. I know he's one of those ''switch 'em up'' kind of GMs but I wouldn't be surprised if he's clearing all this salary with a motive towards free agency.

I won't be surprised if the White Sox are in on Sabathia. A staff of Sabathia, Buehrle, Danks and Floyd would do some serious damage in a division where they are already the defending champions.

I don't think they will make a run at C.C. for numerous reasons.

1 - C.C Sabathia will get a record breaking deal. Kenny Williams doesn't like to spend a lot of money and sign pitchers for a lot of years.

2 - Sabathia will give the Sox 4 Lefties in their starting rotation. This may be too many lefties.

3 - 2 Ace right hand pitchers are out there and they are cheaper then Sabathia. One of the 2 of these Righties will be KW's target.