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« White Sox, Reds Still Talking Dye | Main | J.J. Putz Rumors: Wednesday »
Sabathia Signs With Yankees
1:25pm: Sherman has more details on the Yankees' talks with Sabathia.
12:49pm: Rosenthal talked to a rival exec who sees no upside to Sabathia's opt-out clause. I think it could benefit the Yankees if Sabathia performs decently in the third year but the Yanks do not feel he'll be worth $92MM over the following four years. But, opt-out clauses obviously favor the player.
10:50am: For the first time, Brewers GM Doug Melvin confirmed he offered five years and slightly more than $100MM to Sabathia. Adding a sixth year was under serious consideration. Tom Haudricourt also learned from Melvin that Sabathia wanted an opt-out clause no matter where he signed, and the Brewers were prepared to offer one. Ken Rosenthal says the Brewers will not conduct a fire sale in the wake of Sabathia's departure; Melvin intends to "scramble for pitching."
10:14am: Tim Brown and Gordon Edes of Yahoo report that the deal is for $161MM over seven years (which would top Johan's average annual value).
The deal has an opt-out clause after the first three years, which are worth $69MM. The 31 year-old Sabathia will make his opt-out decision after the 2011 season with four years, $92MM remaining on the deal. He would have to buck the opt-out trend (or renegotiate) to make this more than a three-year, $69MM deal for the Yankees. That is not necessarily a bad thing for them.
8:07am: Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the deal is seven years for approximately $160MM - the fourth largest in MLB history. If that's the exact amount it's a hair under the average annual value of Johan Santana's deal.
7:53am: According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, C.C. Sabathia has chosen to accept the Yankees offer after his latest meeting with Brian Cashman. The news first came in around 3:36am CST.
After three straight days of face-to-face meetings between GM Brian Cashman and Sabathia, the big lefty decided he wants to spend the next six years of his career as a Yankee. The decision came late last night after Cashman flew to see Sabathia at his home in San Francisco. By the time the meeting was concluded, Sabathia had informed the Yankees that he had made his decision to call New York his baseball home, the Post has learned.
Sherman says the deal is not finalized and that there are still "minor hurdles" to overcome. Sherman does not mention if the final offer was any different than the original six-year, $140MM offer or if the contract will require an opt-out clause as was previously speculated.
Cork Gaines writes for RaysIndex.com and can be reached here. Tim Dierkes also contributed to this post.
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Pabelboner, good stuff. I appreciate talking/debating with good baseball fans. Doesn't matter if they root for the Yanks, Sox or Mudhens.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 08:59 AM
Yankees add an ace without giving up prospects.
Money is of ABUNDANCE in that organization.
I hate the yankees, but anyone who says this is a bad move is stupid.
Posted by: mike_lee | December 10, 2008 at 09:00 AM
I think the Yankees had to sign him and he will work out for at least 4 years.
Posted by: SOX2004 | December 10, 2008 at 09:00 AM
If Rosenthal is right in his contract numbers, you really have to laugh at the fact that the Yankees were forced to bid against themselves. There's very little evidence to support the claim that their initial offer was matched by any other team, and even if it was, the amount they moved up is fairly substantial.
So basically, it currently APPEARS for the time being that C.C.'s reluctance to play in NY caused the Yankees to outbid themselves by 15-20 million with an extra year.
God, I hope so.
Posted by: skelley | December 10, 2008 at 09:03 AM
joba should be in the bullpen to replace Mariano when he retires.
Posted by: philsWSchamps | December 10, 2008 at 09:08 AM
"If Rosenthal is right in his contract numbers, you really have to laugh at the fact that the Yankees were forced to bid against themselves. There's very little evidence to support the claim that their initial offer was matched by any other team, and even if it was, the amount they moved up is fairly substantial.
So basically, it currently APPEARS for the time being that C.C.'s reluctance to play in NY caused the Yankees to outbid themselves by 15-20 million with an extra year.
God, I hope so."
Without knowing any other numbers I think that's unfair to assume. Plus, an extra 15-20M over 7 years is only 2-3M per year. I don't think it's that crazy to figure they'd have to pay that to get him out of California where he wants to be to New York.
I'm sure 2M a year to the Yankees is a drop in the bucket.
Posted by: CubbyFan23 | December 10, 2008 at 09:09 AM
Cubbyfan, it's not the AMOUNT, it's the PRINCIPLE of the matter. The idea that a team that I dislike would have to pay more than they initially planned when no one else had matched their offer...meaning they bid against themselves...strikes me as an idea I quite like.
There are no reports that anyone approached the Yankees initial offer. But like I said, it's a hope more than anything else...based on the evidence on hand right now. Just speculation based on a decent chunk of evidence. Nothing more.
Posted by: skelley | December 10, 2008 at 09:12 AM
skelley there are reports that you dont ever hear about so how do you know no one approached that ?
Posted by: hawkeyes12990 | December 10, 2008 at 09:15 AM
Big probs papelboner...i was thinking the same thing for awhile now...i hate people that come on here that say pointless stuff
Posted by: Larsen101 | December 10, 2008 at 09:15 AM
CC seemed really reluctant to play in NY, and it took a truckload of money to convince him.
That's a lot of money for them to spend for a guy who couldn't beat Boston in the 2007 ALCS. At least it's only money and the Yankees didn't have to give up any young
talent to add an ace to their rotation.
Posted by: Gstill45 | December 10, 2008 at 09:16 AM
I agree with papelboner. I've been explaining to Yanksfansince78 among others that trade debate can get hot without name calling and being 5 year olds about it. Comments such as the "Red Sucks" or "you boston homos". try to prove your point rather than trying to just taunt the other teams fans. Even when someone says something stupid like I remember "Raul ibanez is sought after for his defense as well as his offense", correct the person, and let them know they are misinformed.
I happen to think that the CC signing absolutely and greatly increases the chances that the Red Sox throw that 9th or 10th year at Teix to make him bite. I'm not for it as I disagree with signing any player to a 10 year deal. But its a morale thing. The Yanks made a big signing no question in CC, the Red Sox will return with something to make the fans happy, be it Teixiera, or maybe even AJ Burnett (though the rotation is pretty crowded). I think Theo prefers Teix if he has made it pretty clear that he will ask the world for clay bucholz. He (like me) would like to see Clay get 1 more shot at the Red Sox rotation before they decide what to do with him. If they make a pitcher signing, it will be next year. Masterson is the Bucholz backup option and perhaps on the opening day roster as a starter. Masterson will work like Julian Tavarez did in games where Wakefield or Bucholz got off to a shankey start. Anyone goes down no problem, shift him right in. He is very versatile and as he said last year has no problem moving between the rotation and the pen.
I say the Red Sox will make Teixiera an offer within the next 2 weeks for 8 years with a 9th year vested option 230-250 mil. I think thats an offer good enough that Teixiera wouldn't get a better one anywhere else, but is not completely over the top considering A-Rod, Santana, and CC's paydays.
Teix would also be just a great fit in boston. A classy, funny team player who brings alot to the clubhouse to go along with his great bat and fielding.
Lowell, I think is heading to the NL sadly. I love Mikey and I hate to see him go, but if they go for Teix, theres just not room. I think he'll go to an NL team tho i dont have a location picked out. Hes still got a great glove and if his offense comes back he can be a real attribute to the team. not to mention his leadership qualities.
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | December 10, 2008 at 09:16 AM
"Cubbyfan, it's not the AMOUNT, it's the PRINCIPLE of the matter. The idea that a team that I dislike would have to pay more than they initially planned when no one else had matched their offer...meaning they bid against themselves...strikes me as an idea I quite like."
I'm just not sure why. I guess if assigning an arbitrary number is what gets you riled up, so be it, but it reminds me of people squawking about the Cubs handing out 400+M a few offseasons ago. The money's over years, and 20M isn't the real number. The real number in baseball terms is 2M-3M a year, which is the price of a utility infielder or bullpen arm.
And they hardly bid against themselves. I think it was pretty apparent that CC was at least thinking West Coast, and they would have to up their offer to bring him in. I hardly think it's an ARod-Texas situation.
I hope I'm not coming across as a bubble burster, but it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
Posted by: CubbyFan23 | December 10, 2008 at 09:16 AM
KG2577: "
"Welcome Kevin Brown Pavano!"
Fail...
No comparison..."
True. If you're looking for a comparison, think Bartolo Colon. It's why the Indians dumped him.
Posted by: Little Bear | December 10, 2008 at 09:19 AM
Colon was never on Sabathia's level. Stop making that comparison.
Yeah they're both fat guys. David Wells was fat too, he rarely got hurt.
Look at the production to justify this deal.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 09:21 AM
I also think the CC signing greatly increases the chances they give a lil extra money to andy pettite to get him back in pinstripes to solidify their rotation
sabathia
wang
chaimberlain (or burnett/sheets/lowe if they sign one)
pettite
hughes
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | December 10, 2008 at 09:23 AM
The final offer is supposed to be significantly different. About 160M is supposed to be the final figure. I don't know if that includes an option year but my sources here in Vegas are indicating it does not.
Posted by: Stat Man | December 10, 2008 at 09:25 AM
Don't believe for one second that Rosenthal was the first to find out the dollars and years the Yanks were offering
CC!!! Buster Only was the FIRST to announce it this morning on ESPN radio. Rosenthal is a little troll that only comes up with bogus rumors!!!
Posted by: Brian | December 10, 2008 at 09:30 AM
HAHAHA...
CC wanted -
- To be close to home. NOPE
- To hit. NOPE
- Wife wanted him in SF. NOPE
ANOTHER PLAYER PROVES ITS ONLY ABOUT MONEY.
Posted by: 55saveslives | December 10, 2008 at 09:31 AM
People aren't talking about the fact that not only is he 300 lbs, but he threw over 500 innings the last 2 years. His arm is going to fall off!
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 09:31 AM
no brainer my the yanks.
they got the ace they need, and the biggest impact FA on the market. little worried about his woeful postseason stats. and don't expect the "Brewers" sabathia. i can see 19-22 wins, with a 3.50 era.
now, if i'm the yanks, i would...
sign d. lowe. sign a. pettite. sign a. burnett. put joba back in the pen (where he belongs).
that gives ya...sabathia-wang-burnett-lowe-pettite. and a good bullpen (dominate backend).
they should sign man-ram, trade cano/hughes (something along those lines) for matt kemp and a reliever, and sign r. furcal.
that gives...
furcal-2b
jeter-ss
arod-3b
manny-dh
matsui-lf
kemp-cf
posada-c
nady-rf
swisher-1b
something looks off there (damon?), i dunno. but these moves make the yanks to beat in '09.
Posted by: Boston Belongs To Me | December 10, 2008 at 09:32 AM
"skelley there are reports that you dont ever hear about so how do you know no one approached that ?
Posted by: hawkeyes12990 | December 10, 2008 at 09:15 AM"
do you read what you reply to? mainly the parts where i said that i HOPE that that's the case, and that i was SPECULATING?
read, and then reply, or don't reply at all.
and cubby...don't worry, it's all okay. it's not a big deal to me either. it's not my money or my franchise. it's just, like i said, the principle of the matter. IF they actually bid against themselves and had to pay more SOLELY on the fact that he didn't want to play in new york (as it appears), it's just a light laugh on the side for me...not a riotous celebration.
Posted by: skelley | December 10, 2008 at 09:34 AM
Try not to get so hung up on the fact that the Yankees added the extra year to the deal. In negotiations like this, CC was probably saying "Hey I really like NY, but I want to see what any other offers are before I make my decision. I should know in a few weeks." The Yankees don't want to drag this out any more and want to be able to get things set as soon as possible so they don't lose out on other players if he doesn't take their offer. They come back and say, "If we added a 7th year and $20 million to the offer would you accept today?"
And everyone is happy.
Posted by: CMM | December 10, 2008 at 09:37 AM
As much as I and other Yankee fans would like the Yankees to stop going out and signing the top talent for the top dollar, you need to understand that they have a brand and product that they have to sell (ie. new yankee stadium and YES network) and if they do not field a competitive team and miss the playoffs for a second year (even though I wouldn't mind missing playoffs for another year if that meant rebuilding for the future) it would be a big hit on the Yankee name and revenue streams from YES (advertising, etc) and the stadium.
They are at a point where they have to make these moves in order to keep up to the standard that they have set for their brand.
Posted by: BklynJT | December 10, 2008 at 09:38 AM
^^ That's just ridiculous.
The Yankees aren't signing Manny, they aren't signing Furacl, they aren't trading Phil Hughes AND Cano for Matt Kemp. They aren't moving Joba to the pen (rightfully so), they aren't playing Matsui in the field and they aren't signing Sabathia, Lowe, Burnett AND Pettitte.
Their offense is fine the way it is. I'd love Teix, but he's nowhere near a necessity.
They should sign 2 starters. It sounds like they are close with Lowe. The third should either be Sheets or Pettitte. Sheets is a much higher reward guy, but Pettitte will sign for 1-year and has sentimental value.
1. Sabathia
2. Lowe
3. Wang
4. Sheets/Pettitte
5. Chamberlain
Hughes and Kennedy in the wings.
C- Posada
1B- Swisher
2B- Cano
3B- Rodriguez
SS- Jeter
LF- Damon
CF- Gardner/Cabrera
RF- Nady
DH- Matsui
Done.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 09:38 AM
you guys have to look at more than just his weight.... he is 6' 7"! do you know how big that is?
Posted by: letsgoyankees | December 10, 2008 at 09:39 AM
HAHAHA...
CC wanted -
- To be close to home. NOPE
- To hit. NOPE
- Wife wanted him in SF. NOPE
ANOTHER PLAYER PROVES ITS ONLY ABOUT MONEY.
Oh come on now, did you say the same thing a couple years ago about Zito? Quit with the sour grapes.
I hereby promise not to freak out when the Yankees swoop in later today and pluck Derek Lowe out from under my Phils for 5 years and 120 million.
Posted by: philsWSchamps | December 10, 2008 at 09:41 AM
And everyone is happy.
Posted by: CMM | December 10, 2008 at 09:37 AM
Except fans of 29 of 30 baseball teams.
Posted by: skelley | December 10, 2008 at 09:42 AM
that gives ya...sabathia-wang-burnett-lowe-pettite. and a good bullpen (dominate backend).
sign d. lowe. sign a. pettite. sign a. burnett. put joba back in the pen (where he belongs).
they should sign man-ram, trade cano/hughes (something along those lines) for matt kemp and a reliever, and sign r. furcal.
------------------------------
You're asking for way too much. We can't get everyone, leave some people for the other teams. Also, bad contract for 1 person per off-season is one thing, but not 3 (add lowe + burnett)!!! And believe me, those are BADDDD contracts. No wonder everyone has such negative regards towards Yankee fans.
I have heard rumors of Yankees interest in Ankiel for CF. Now that is a great move that they should persue.
Posted by: BklynJT | December 10, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Santana/Beckett - this is actually the opposite impact on Pettitte. if they threw an additional 20M, or anything over 140M for that matter, they are not going to give Pettitte anywhere near 15M. Why they would give it to Lowe is beyond me. It's quite easy to see he has benefited from paying in Chavez Ravine. I wouldn't touch Lowe with a 10-foot pole.
Why can't we go with a cheaper option on the market - a guy who can throw 200 innings and not tax the bullpen every 5 days - like jon Garland. A nice 2 year 27M deal and you have:
Sabathia
Wang
Hughes
Garland
Joba
You people have to remember, Joba is still going to be on a leash this year. It;'s not like he is going to throw 200 inings. hguhes may, but its more liely he'll throw in the area of 180-195 innings. We need guys that can go into the 7th inning. Let smeone else overypay for Lowe, and am I the only person who sees Burnett as a glorified Carl Pavano? he has been in the league for almost 10 years, on the disabled list during 8 of them, and won 18 games I believe once and had only 2 good seasons. Why does this sound so familiarto what people against the Pavano signing were saying? why can't we learn from our mistakes??
Thanks Kevin Towers, for blowing the folowing ridiculous blockbuster:
YANKS: Peavy, David DeJesus
SAN DIEGO: Matt Cain, Austin Jackson, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, George Kontos(SP-NYY) and $3M
GIANTS: Cano (pre-Renteria signing), Mark Teahen,Alan Horne (SP-NYY)
KANSAS CITY; Hideki Matsui, and I think one mid-level infield (SFG) AND pitching prospect(NYY)
Would have been real nice to have:
Sabathia
Peavy
Wang
Joba
Hughes
DH-Damon
SS-Jeter
3B-Arod
LF-Raul Ibanez
RF-Nady
1B-Posada
CF-David DeJesus
2B-Orlando Hudson
C-Jose Molina
DH-Damon
SS-Jeter
3B-Arod
LF-Raul Ibanez
RF-Nady
C-Jorge Posada
CF-David DeJesus
2B-Orlando Hudson
1B-Juan Miranda
Posted by: Stat Man | December 10, 2008 at 09:46 AM
So the Yankees improved in one area drastically by adding two aces to next years staff. (Wang and Sabathia). Adding one more pitcher would be nice but i think bigger needs are adding a little more offense to replace Abreu and Giambi and to improve defensively where they were horriffic last year. I would sign Teixeira and try and make a trade for Ichiro who Seattle has said they would move. Maybe a Damon, Montero, Jackson trade where the Yankees pick up none of Damons salary. That would give them an outfielf of Swisher/Nady, Gardner, and Ichiro (huge upgrade defensively over last season) and a huge upgrade at first base obviously. Ichiro takes over in the leadoff spot for Damon
Ichiro
Jeter
Teixeira
Arod
Cano
Swisher/Nady
Matsui
Posada
Gardner
CC
Wang
Pettitte/Sheets/Burnett
Joba
Hughes
Posted by: paineinflicted | December 10, 2008 at 09:47 AM
Who cares about height? 300 lbs is 300 lbs. And he is clearly overweight. Combine that with the fact that he has thrown over 500 innings the past 2 years! He's a guaranteed injury.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 09:48 AM
You forgot to mention signing Orlando Hudson to play great D at 2B. Hey, while we're at it, why don't they sign Nolan Ryan and Roberto Clemente too.
Posted by: Ink&Paper | December 10, 2008 at 09:48 AM
too bad CC sucked in the AL last yr
Posted by: ... | December 10, 2008 at 09:49 AM
No way I trade Jackson and Montero for an 20mil a year singles hitting outfielder. Let's not totally fall into the pitfall that put us in the position we are now. We need to stay with a good balance of experience and youth.
Posted by: BklynJT | December 10, 2008 at 09:51 AM
As an Indians/C.C. fan and a person who just doesn't like the Yankees, I was hoping that he would sign somewhere else... Anywhere else, really.
I don't really blame Sabathia though. It seems to me that the Yankees were the only team that aggressively pursued him (and not just limited to years/dollars).
I'm genuinely concerned for Sabathia though. So far, he has not shown that he can handle high-pressure situations.. and pretty much every start for the Yankees is going to come with a lot of pressure.
Posted by: GoTribe | December 10, 2008 at 09:52 AM
so you're telling me shaq is a fatass because he weighs 325?
Posted by: letsgoyankees | December 10, 2008 at 09:53 AM
I think the concerns about his workload and weight are legitimate, but at this point what were the Yankees to do? They NEEDED CC in order to stabilize that rotation. If they hadn't gone to such great lengths in terms of years and dollars, it would've made CC's decision so much easier to stay on the West Coast. The Yanks did exactly what they had to do in order to make sure they got their man. 7 year contracts to pitchers are generally not a good idea, but a team like the Yanks will always have the money to go out and restock if CC gets hurt in the last year or 2 of the deal.
I think the Yanks still need to go out and get at least one more starter. I think Lowe is a better fit than Burnett or Sheets at this point (without taking each ones contract demands into account, just in terms of the player). Lowe is a durable, innings eater who can win 16-20 games a year for the Yanks. He'd be another stabilizing member of the rotation. A top 3 of CC, Wang, and Lowe will throw a lot of innings for you and take pressure off of the bullpen and allow the Yankees to limit the pitches/innings they put on Hughes/Joba/Kennedy/any other young starter they deem ready for the rotation.
Posted by: Papelboner | December 10, 2008 at 09:53 AM
Ichiro might be the most overrated player in the game. Please do not bring him anywhere near the Yankees, especially not for that asking price.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 09:53 AM
Bosto Belongs to me, stick to your day job.
If you did that you'd havea pissed off fanbase, an terrified owneer, and a team with no financial flexibility for at least 3-4 years. Oh, and you just cost the city taxpayers more money by inserting a new stadium, as well as higher ticket and concession prices.
Oh yea, just keep signing guys. We don't even have a final number for this contract and you want to sign the entrie free agent list.
If anyone evaluated the talent they would know this class is way over priced.
we have 4 solid pitchers. The 5th could be Andy Pettitte, it could even be Jon garland. there's absolutelyno reason why it should be Burnett or Lowe now that we have Sabathia-Wang.
I mean, compare it toBoston.
Sabathia matches up with Beckett. We tatoo DiceK and he matches up with Wang. Lester and Masterson are NOT better than Joba/Hughes. lester/Buccholz is closer but Buccholz looked worse than hughes last year. and then you have wakefield and... Pettitte/Garalnd?
Why do we need to spend 55-65M and dedicate 4-6 years on 2 guys that you know for a fact will not be worth their investment. They'll be pedro signings.
Look at the stats. And if anyone wants to know what im talking about, let me know and I'll le the numbers talk.
Posted by: Stat Man | December 10, 2008 at 09:54 AM
yeah, my yankee scenario is out-there (a bit, maybe). and this comes from a sox fan. but the yanks definitely can do these things. they have the money. there are no crazy trades in there. and how good does there line-up look with an "actual" lead off hitter.
Posted by: Boston Belongs To Me | December 10, 2008 at 09:54 AM
shaq like 7 foot
Posted by: ... | December 10, 2008 at 09:56 AM
I agree but if we signed Teixeira than Montero would have no position to play and Jackson in my opinion isnt that hot a prospect. Ichiro is the top defensive right fielder in the game with probably the second best outfield arm in all of baseball, he is signed reasonably (three more years left I believe) and would take over Damons spot effectively in the lineup. Damon is signed for more money with one year left. That gives Seattle a year to grrom Jacson to take Damons spot and take the draft picks when Damon leaves. Its a win win deal for both teams.
Posted by: paineinflicted | December 10, 2008 at 09:56 AM
yeah....and sabathia is 6' 7". my point is that big guys (height) are obviously going to weigh more. im not saying he's skinny by any means, but i wouldnt consider him like david wells.
Posted by: letsgoyankees | December 10, 2008 at 09:57 AM
"so you're telling me shaq is a fatass because he weighs 325"
No, have you ever looked at CC Sabathia? He, in fact, IS a fatass.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 09:58 AM
I'd rather keep Jackson than get Ichiro.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 09:59 AM
stat man,
that's not a horrible trade, but why would the Royals trade Matsui for Dejesus?
Posted by: philsWSchamps | December 10, 2008 at 09:59 AM
stat man...
you lose all credibility when you say lester and masterson are not better than joba/hughes. and then say "look at the stats...let me know and i'll let the numbers talk".
and i'm a little hurt. i think my yanks scenario is pretty damn good. wow.
Posted by: Boston Belongs To Me | December 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM
And again, the point no one is talking about: he has thrown 500 innings over the last 2 years. That's a ridiculous workload, his arm is in serious trouble.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Boston Belongs To Me,
You lost all credibility when you posted your Yankees off-season wish-list.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 10:03 AM
On the plus side, the Yankees will likely take much better care of Sabathia's arm.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:05 AM
''Ichiro might be the most overrated player in the game. Please do not bring him anywhere near the Yankees, especially not for that asking price.''
A guy who averages 225 hits a season, 25 doubles, 8 triples, a .375 obp, 40sb with 9 cs, 110 runs, Ks less than 10%, who is the best defensive outfielder in baseball with a great throwing arm is over rated at the same figure we paid Abreu last season. By the way his .331 average is second only to Pujols in active players.
Im sure Pujols is over rated though.
Posted by: paineinflicted | December 10, 2008 at 10:06 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/colonba01.shtml
Sabathia's future.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:07 AM
The Royals would not trade DeJesus for Matsui. If they trade for anything, it would be for either a catcher, a 2B, or a pitcher.
Posted by: Ink&Paper | December 10, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Lester and Masterson are NOT better than Joba/Hughes. Although Joba might not be able to stay in the rotation which changes the comparison a bit.
Posted by: BklynJT | December 10, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Did you seriously just compare Ichiro to Pujols?
You just listed a bunch of repetitive stats: hits, double, triples...
Runs are created through OPS. Yeah, he gets 225 hits but his OBP is .375. That's not good at all.
His SLG% is putrid as well. So what does he do? He gets on base at a .375 clip and plays good defense. Damon put up the same OBP this year with a better SLG%. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying he's incredibly overrated.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:11 AM
dorfmac wrote:
Another purchase that will come back to haunt them. Will the Yankees ever realize that they never won championships by buying their teams? It was always about developing the core and signing role players. They need to get back to that if they want to actually win, instead of just be competitive for most of the season.
_______________________
I couldn't give a fudge what anyone else thinks. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Plain and simply put ..this in no way limits the Yankees from signing and developing pitchers in house. I'm hoping they save a spot for a guy like Hughes to fight for a spot but this helps because now we don't have to rush guys like Betenances, Brackman, McAllister, Reyes, Heredia, etc to come along slow in the minors. CC automatically pushes everyone down a notch and makes them better. The media always said "Wang isn't a #1" well now he's a very, very good #2 or #3. If Pettitte were brought back people would say "He's not a good #2 or #3" well now he could be a great #4 or #5. YOU SIMPLY DO NOT WIN W/O A TOP #1 (see Santana, Beckett, etc).
Why were you people so upset because we didn't pull the trigger to get Santana, a deal that would've have cost us practically the same amount of money that was given to CC (minus the extra 1/20 mil) AND 3 top prospects/players? This is just a cash deal and other than a #1 draft pick which we would've of lost w/ any pitcher we signed, it doesn't effect our farm system at all.
The Yanks think that Joba and Hughes might be #1 starter material but they probably wouldn't reach that potential for another year or two, meanwhile you have star players in Rivera, Posada, Jeter and Arod that are aging everyday. It could well have taken the Yanks 3 to 4 years to see their best lower level prospects ready to join Joba and HUghes and even when you think they're ready there's no guarantee that they will become star pitchers (see Brien Taylor, Todd Van Popple, Paul Wilson, Ben Davis, Kris Benson, etc).
What's even better is that the Yanks are getting a guy @ age 28, as opposed to their usual history of signing a guy when he's in his mid to late 30's. I'm not really crazy about them going after Lowe but people seem to think he's the "cat's meow". I think we're getting an older version of the guy that got rocked for a 5.00 era back in 04. I would rather they go after a guy like Oliver Perez or maybe even Ben Sheets for a 2 year deal. I think a rotation like:
CC (28)
Wang (29)
Perez (27)
Joba (22)
Pettite (37) 1 year deal
Hughes (22) on the major league staff as a 6th man spot starter/long relief
...would be incredible. That staff would be set for the next 3 to 4's and allows you to restock and retool both the major league roster and the farm with position players.
But now that we have CC I can digest the idea of Burnett and/or Lowe a lot better.
Let's sign another pitcher and then set our aim on BIG TEX!!
GO CASH!!! GO YANKS!! LARGA VIDA AL IMPERIO DEL MAL!!!
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | December 10, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Ah, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Only in America.
Posted by: Ink&Paper | December 10, 2008 at 10:18 AM
And an opt-out clause after three years as well??? So Sabathia can pull an A-Rod if he is healthy and a Pavano if he isn't???
Wow, this deal just is looking worse all the time for the Yanks.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:19 AM
That is one scary contract. At least he will have incentive to stay healthy and productive for the first 3 years.
Posted by: MVPujols | December 10, 2008 at 10:20 AM
CC's playoff line: 5 GS, record 2-3, 7.92 ERA, 1.48 WHIP, 24 K, 5 IP/Start
Posted by: Mrs_Thompson's_Boy | December 10, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I, for one, can't wait until CC breaks down after all the innings the Brewers milked out of him.
Posted by: OmegaMan | December 10, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Opt-out clause? Might be a good thing for NY.
Scenario A.)
Sabathia is great the first 3 years of his deal. He either thinks he can get a new, better deal on the market or he doesn't like NY and he opts out. The Yankees essentially just got him for 3/$69MM, a terrific deal since most think he breaks down after 4-5 years anyway.
Scenario B.)
He sucks for the first 3 years. He either sticks with the Yankees so he gets paid (the negative implication for NY) or he opts out because he really hates NY and the Yankees are off the hook.
Or he just stays all 7 years as we originally thought...pitches well for the first several years and then tails off/breaks down at the end.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I guess some thought 30 million could not make a difference between 110 & 140 because he wanted to be on the West Coast. That 51 million difference mattered, too.
Posted by: studio179 | December 10, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Opt out after 3 years? Don't like that at all...
Posted by: KG2577 | December 10, 2008 at 10:23 AM
I'm trying to get my head around how giving a pitcher the equivilent of four $20M player option years three years hence is in any way a good thing....
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:24 AM
""Come back to planet Earth. A million holes to fill? This is a team that was decimated by injuries last year. It's something a lot of people forget about. It's not like they were healthy most of the year and played poorly. A-Rod, Posada, Matsui, Damon, Wang, Kennedy, and Hughes all missed significant time. For crissakes, they had to go out and get Sidney Ponson at one point because of their starting rotation.""
QUOTED FOR TRUTH. Although, They can always say that their club was more banged up. I love that one. And on 7 yrs as opposed to 6; maybe this was Cashman's idea; lower the AAV and ensure you have the ace for another year if you look at it that way, which most don't. It is not finalized yet, so it may be an team option, too.
On the rest of the Rotation, one spot for Sheets/Pettitte/Burnett/Perez/Lowe. In that order. ensure flexibility relative to the contract that will be signed with CC. Hughes is ready for the big leagues IMO. There is nothing left for him to prove.
""trade for Ichiro who Seattle has said they would move. Maybe a Damon, Montero, Jackson trade where the Yankees pick up none of Damons salary. ""
NRMax, is that you?
TO RSD; don't get your hopes up on MarkT. Although we have no one ready to take 1B long term, besides Swish; i have alot of confidence in him, You don't give that much money to a first baseman unless it is a pujols-like hitter/fielder/baserunner. Theo know that. and besides, you think the yankees are going to lay down and let teh ALWC champs get Mark. I know this is speculation, but with everything equal, you think he is choosing boston or NY?
-friendly Yankees Fan
Posted by: ArodMVP217 | December 10, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Jeez, YanksFan, get a freaking blog why don't you. Huge Tribe fan, hate Yankees. Wanted to see CC sign out west, but I guess CC stands for Cash Cow. He will continue to be a horse for you, he's so dominant.
Posted by: Furrski | December 10, 2008 at 10:25 AM
And people keed this in mind. Do you honestly think that if Beckett, Webb, Halladay, Felix Hernandez, etc were to continue to pitch well and stay healthy that they wouldn't have easily commanded deals that were similar to, if not bigger than Santana's deal? Next year Beckett, Lackey, Webb and Cliff Lee all have option years coming up. All of those teams know, especially for the pitchers currently under 30, that they will need to spend, spend and spend to lock up their talent. A great young pitcher is like a pretty girl. She doesn't stay single for long unless she wants to.
You know what's even more hilarious about some of the comments from Yankee haters?
They say we shouldn't sign the big free agent and we're evil because we do so and we should instead develope them. When we do develop them (see Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams, Cano) and then sign them to long-term deals to keep them then we're bad. There's no satisfying anyone, so let's worry about satifying ourselves.
We didn't give Zito 125 mil and we weren't the ones that gave Arod his initial $250 mil. The cats out the bag and the market has been set.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | December 10, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Don't like the Yankees but I respect the way they run their organization they always seem to get their guy.
Still hate them though.
Posted by: BucSox | December 10, 2008 at 10:25 AM
I don't think the opt-out is a bad thing. The only way the Yankees are significantly hurt by it is if Sabathia really sucks or gets hurt in the first 3 years and then stays with the team, so they'd owe him all 7 years and $161 million.
Most people think he's going to break down after 4 years or so anyway. If the Yankees can get him on a 3-year contract, while he's at the top of his game, why the hell not?
Everyone thinks giving him 7 years is risky/a mistake. Well, now there's a chance that he's gone after 3 years and the Yankees are off the hook.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Clearly the opt-out allows for CC to wait and see if the Knicks sign LeBron, then he can stay in NY to hang out with his boys. If not he has the option to go to whatever city LeBron did sign with.
Posted by: weeha004 | December 10, 2008 at 10:27 AM
$30 mil for approx. 33 starts. That's almost a $1 mil per game.
Posted by: OmegaMan | December 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM
furrski:
I'll meet you on the corner of Ontario and East 9th and box your ears in dude. And then we can have a beer at the Winking Lizard and talk about this blog thing.
Go Yanks!! Go Cavs!! Go Knicks!! (when they sign a FA NOT named LeBron). Go Giants!!! Go ROmeo Crenell!!....no reallly GO!!!
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | December 10, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Of course the opt-out is a bad thing for NY, in that it dramatically increases the real costs of the contract/value to the player.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Oh come on now, did you say the same thing a couple years ago about Zito? Quit with the sour grapes.
I hereby promise not to freak out when the Yankees swoop in later today and pluck Derek Lowe out from under my Phils for 5 years and 120 million.
Actually phils...YES! Zito said he wanted to play for a winner. Mets were going to offer 5 / 80. Zito signed for 7 / 126.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
Funny how you hate Giants and Giants fans so much. You are always all over Giants threads. SF doesn't care about you or Philly. Why do you care so much??
Posted by: 55saveslives | December 10, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Let me put it this way--if CC is pitching lights out in 3 years the Yanks under a true 7 year deal would always have the option to deal him for a haul. Now the best they'd get is draft picks should he walk.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Congratulations to the Yankees for outbidding themselves by $30 million and outbidding everyone else by $70 million. As any shipbuilding Steinbrenner will tell you, it takes a boatload of acumen to do that.
Posted by: GravediggerHebner | December 10, 2008 at 10:32 AM
I'm really suprised the Yanks gave him an opt-out clause. If after 3 years the Yanks don't win a championship and he finds out he doesn't like the intense nature of NY, the fans, the media (just like Boston), he could opt out and head west. Doesn't really hurt the Yankees as much as it gives CC more options down the road. He could very well go 3 and out in NY.
Posted by: Papelboner | December 10, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Let me put it this way--if CC is pitching lights out in 3 years the Yanks under a true 7 year deal would always have the option to deal him for a haul. Now the best they'd get is draft picks should he walk.
Deal him? How many teams are going to eat the remainder of that contract? Come on now. Teams would jump at the opportunity to sign C.C. to a 3 year $69 MM deal. The problem is that these guys won't sign for less than 6-7 years.
Most of us agree that C.C. will be good for the first 3-5 years and then tail off, correct? Well if that's the case, then the Yankees are only on the hook for those good years, and then they can let some other team pay him as he declines.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Yanks should sign Leo Mezzoni.
Posted by: DominicanYanks | December 10, 2008 at 10:35 AM
does anyone else find it ironic that the Yankees GM's name is
"CASH" man.
Posted by: philsWSchamps | December 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM
ajgdrums, How on earth is a .375 OBP "not good at all"?? That would have been T-10th in the AL last year. You must have pretty high standards...
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 10:37 AM
If he goes 3 and out, so be it. Then its not a 7 year deal and they are off the hook for the big contract.
If he cant hack NY, he can leave...works out for both him and the team.
Worse case scenario is he gets hurt and stays for all 7..which would be no different if there was no opt out clause.
Posted by: yankeegirl49 | December 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM
I like how he took and extra million just to make sure he was the highest paid pitcher.
Posted by: CitizenSnips | December 10, 2008 at 10:39 AM
metzfan,
.375 OBP is good, but when you're getting 225 hits and batting .330 every year, no, it's not terribly impressive. The guy does not walk at all.
.375 is good, but this guy is constantly praised as the best leadoff hitter in the game. Sorry, but .375 OBP is not great enough to call him that.
He doesn't slug worth a damn either. He's a singles hitter. That's it. No walks. No run production. He just gets a ton of hits.
Again, he's a damn good player, but he's INCREDIBLY overrated.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:41 AM
yankeegirl,
Exactly. I don't think the opt-out is a bad thing for NY.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Nop, Phillies will
Posted by: DominicanYanks | December 10, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Amazing. An incredibly player-friendly provision is not at the expense of the Yankees.
You all are delusional.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Why am I delusional? Can you give me a reasonable explanation as to why I am wrong? I just spelled it out very clearly. The front page of MLBTR even said they don't think it's that bad of a thing for NY. Sure it's player-friendly. But it might also bail the Yankees out of what will likely be the worst years of that contract.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:48 AM
"A guy who averages 225 hits a season"
Mostly singles.
"25 doubles"
That is not good. In fact, it is pretty horrible considering how many AB.
"8 triples"
Let's go sign Cristian Guzman!
"a .375 obp, 40sb with 9 cs"
Not bad.
"110 runs, Ks less than 10%"
Not useful stats unless you want to talk about his BA, which you already do.
"who is the best defensive outfielder in baseball with a great throwing arm"
He is not the best defensive OF in baseball by a longshot.
"is over rated at the same figure we paid Abreu last season."
Yes.
Posted by: CubbyFan23 | December 10, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Baseball-Reference has Ichiro averaging 228 hits a year. I don't care if they're singles. A single is a hit. It gets him on base, where he averages 40 steals a year, and 112 runs scored a year (on the Mariners, who aren't the Yankees). He isn't overrated, he's a damn good baseball player. On the Yankees, he'd have 125+ runs a year, with the 230 hits and 40 steals. Again, that's not overrated.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 10:50 AM
"the yankees will still not win the world series"
I hope you're right, but thanks for the insightful comment. Glad you wasted your time and mine with that post.
I agree, the opt out isn't a bad thing for NY, unless CC is lights out for 3 years but decides he wants out and leaves for the west coast. This would leave the Yanks with only a couple draft picks. But in 3 years, they can just go after the free agent starter du jour and throw that money at him. If CC gets hurt early on, the Yanks would've been stuck with the contract anyway. I would imagine CC insisted upon the opt out in case he really didn't enjoy NY or else he was going to start seriously looking elsewhere.
Posted by: Papelboner | December 10, 2008 at 10:51 AM
I think it's obvious that if CC get's hurt or is ineffective that he probably would want to high tail it out of town in 3 years anyway.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | December 10, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Why are you looking at hits though? It is a misleading argument. When you say that he averages 228 hits, you imply that he gets on base all the time.
Yet his OBP is .375. Again, a very good number, but nowhere near the best in the league, which he's constantly praised as (leadoff hitter.)
So yeah, he gets a lot of hits. A lot of other people get less hits but make up for it with walks. Ichiro gets no walks. So the hit point is moot. He is a .375 OBP player with zero slugging production and good defense. A very good player? Sure. But very overrated as well.
Posted by: ajgdrums7814 | December 10, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Papelboner..its now being reported he wanted the opt out no matter where he signed, so I guess its not about him enjoying NY. It seems more about making more money when I read that.
Posted by: yankeegirl49 | December 10, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Nop, Phillies will
THANKS DOMINICAN!!!
actually i know you're just kidding. Can you please let us have Lowe and move onto Burnett first or better yet Tex and then Burnett.
Posted by: philsWSchamps | December 10, 2008 at 10:56 AM
better be nice yankee fans or he is gonna bounce
Posted by: 661dodgerblue | December 10, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Fenton from Philly..
Thank you for proving to the rest of this forum that the Yankees and Sox are not the only ones with obnoxious, arrogant fans.
Now go away.
Posted by: yankeegirl49 | December 10, 2008 at 10:56 AM
You are delusional because you are acting as if a low probability event (CC is great for three years leaves and another team is holding the bag for his stinky four remaining years) somehow outweighs the fact that the far more likely scenario is that he is hurt/sucks over the next three years and the Yankees have a $20M/year contract they have to eat.
Posted by: George Purcell | December 10, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Haha nice Fenton, finally a "classy" philly fan shows up. I can't wait till someone hits a bomb off Lidge, therefore destroying his career for another 3 years. I can't wait till your plan of replacing Pat Burrell with Juan Rivera (or someone to that degree) falls short after Rivera hits .240.
Posted by: metzfan22 | December 10, 2008 at 10:58 AM