Red Sox Still Eyeing Miguel Montero

As long as Montero comes cheap i'm ok with it. If BOS keeps Buchholz Bowden Masterson maybe Bard out of a potential deal then go for it.

Silverman means that they will add Smoltz and Kotsay. Neither have been "officially" signed yet.

call me ignorant, but Montero's stats don't seem very impressive - what's the big hype about him? Why give up a plus pitching prospect for him? Is he really that much better than Boston's minor league guys? I guess there is less opportunity for trial and error in Boston, but it seems that Kottaras or Brown probably would be given a similar chance in Arizona if they were there and their minor league stats don't seem that bad...

He seems to have ok stats, had a .255 avg last year I think but thats about all I know about him. Any one that has seen him or knows more about him, how is he behind the plate? what does his ceiling look to be?

I found this scouting report... sounds like a good pick up for the Sox... http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Miguel_Montero/

Assets:
A good athlete for a catcher, he has a very live bat. Also shows solid mobility behind the plate. His home-run potential is major for a backstop.

Flaws:
Makes a lot of mistakes behind the dish. Needs to work on anticipating base-stealers. As a hitter, he could stand to shorten his swing.

Career potential:
An offense-first starting catcher.

Only way I am in favor of acquiring any of the Montero/Salty/teagareden trio is if it requires no more than a Danial Bard at best as a pitching prospect. No way does Masterson, Buch, or Bowden get swapped for any of that trio of virtually unproven catchers.

im not sure if anybody has pointed this out yet but it seems like the consensus is from sox fans is to move varitek asap....as a nyy fan id want that not so much cuz he bats around the mendoza line, but because he is smart behind the plate and is a leader in the clubhouse....i think him being gone is like the yanks losing oneil to retirement..and a piece of the old tougness

I think Sox should think about giving kids a chance also, unless deal can be worked out without losing Bowden and Bard. Which I doubt.

the red sox do have the upper hand with snyder signed to an extension. even though the sox need a catcher, its a problem that can be solved in another temporary fashion. I think the dbacks will blink first if bard or Hagadone get on the table, they dont have much to work with since the spot is filled for a few years

As a dback fan I would love bowden to replace doug davis in a year or two. And this would be a great deal if we could unload byrnes to get some money for a starting pitcher, and possibly a back up outfielder(maybe even in this trade).

I think Teagarden would still be the ideal option. He's a plus defender with a good arm, and he projects to be a pretty good hitter with some pop as well.

I wouldn't give up Buchholz for him, but a Bowden-Teagarden swap would be solid for Boston.

"it is with mixed emotions if varitek does in deed move on/retire, then only tim wakefield is the only man left from the 04 team, sad thought really"

Both Youk and Ortiz were with the 2004 team.

That said, it's just as well. Most of the 2004 team are, at this point, past their primes. There's a reason Manny, Millar, Cabrera and Varitek are all still free agents. Honestly, most of the 2004 starting nine is either in free agency limbo or retired.

"As a dback fan I would love bowden to replace doug davis in a year or two. And this would be a great deal if we could unload byrnes to get some money for a starting pitcher, and possibly a back up outfielder(maybe even in this trade)."

Unlikely. Theo's expressed an unwillingness to deal Bowden or Buchholz for anything but a proven MLB catcher and we couldn't really fit Byrnes anywhere, we have five suitable outfielders already. Taking on Byrnes would mean sacrificing a roster spot that should be going to a relief pitcher. Our 25-man only has enough room for a catcher, at this point. If we make a deal for Montero, it won't involve taking Byrnes off of your hands.

my error on david ortiz, cant believe i forgot him! but youk i did remember, but he really wasnt technically with the team all year so i didnt count him, kind of how i dont count nomar that year either

And to think Varitek had anywhere from $10M- $12M in arbitration just a few months ago.

no doubt cy young. but i think at the end of the day, Tek will tell Boras to take what the sox give him. Sox have Tek, Tek has the sox. Everyone is happy - except Boras, but who cares.

I could live with Tek and Montero, I wouldn't want the guy teaching the kid how to hit or anything but teaching him how to catch and manage a team would be a big help in Montero's progression towards being a good everyday catcher.

Montero is Majors ready, which Kottaras does not fit yet. He's a year, maybe two away. Montero can backup anybody, and can take on a "full" half load, which Kottaras could not. Plus, Montero is under control for awhile, Josh Bard is only a one-year non-guaranteed signing, so he really fits what Theo tries to do in building a squad. Montero has an average arm but above-average power and, like all catchers, will likely improve as he ages. If you look at the status of catchers over all 30 teams, Montero would put the BoSox in the top half.

I agree on keeping Masterson and Buchholz no matter what, but the BoSox have to be careful not to buy into their own press about how great their pitching prospects may be, like the NYY did last year not moving Kennedy. IIRC, Craig Hanson was supposed to be a stud, too, and while it got the Sox Jason Bay eventually, Hanson was hardly the lynchpin of that deal.

Moving a speculatively good pitcher like Bard or even Bowden for a speculatively good catcher like Montero at this juncture would seem a reasonable move. Just my opinion.

"Trade Masterson and Lars Anderson for Mauer."

Bahahahahaha!!! Man, I have seen some people undervaluing Red Sox prospects but good just because they're on a big market team, but Masterson and Anderson would only net Mauer if they were secondary parts in a deal that included Pedroia on top of it.

Beyond that, Anderson isn't supposed to be a direct replacement for Youkilis. He's an indirect replacement for Lowell. His development should be completed at around the same time Lowell's contract is up. When Lowell's done, Youkilis will be moved back to third and Anderson will take over at first.

"Are you folks crazy? Why does everyone want to include Bard in trade talks? Bard will be better than Masterson. He was a 1st round pick and look at his stats. Trade Masterson and Lars Anderson for Mauer. Anderson is very talented but Youk, hopefully, will be at 1st for years. Avoid a biding war for Mauer with Yankees, get him now."

Maybe it's because Daniel Bard has serious command and control issues, while Masterson has proven himself at least somewhat at the MLB level.

Bard may have better raw stuff, but he literally is incapable of keeping his walks down as a starter, and is basically a sure thing to be a reliever at this point.

Bard still has an electric arm, but those control issues will prevent him from having any upside higher than a good closer.

Masterson meanwhile, thanks to that great sinker, has the potential to be the next Aaron Cook or Derek Lowe. Guys that can keep the ball on the ground while also posting some strikeouts have a good chance to become productive pitchers.

And now, moving on to the Joe Mauer suggestion: Why?

Minnesota has shown ZERO willingness to even consider moving Mauer, who is among the best players in baseball.

He's still under team control through 2010 at a reasonable cost, and it seems likely that the Twins will at least put a very good effort into signing him to an extension.

Otherwise, trading for Mauer will cost you a fuckin haul.

I'm talking about something like Mauer for Lars Anderson, Clay Buchholz, Josh Reddick and Yamaico Navarro.

I think if BOS wont trade Bowden for Montero, they should just keep him, and have a real nice right/left combo at catcher for years to come.

AZ has no real reason to trade Montero. For AZ, he is cheap, has Years of control, and will get enough PT spelling snyder about 40% of the time, and getting a bunch of pinch hit opportunitys.

AZ has no real reason to move him.

Tolo, you have absolutely no idea what the red sox have offerend AZ for Montero. Furthermore, the sox have a deep system at all levels... just because they may have masterson/buch/bowden/anderson off the table (supposedly) doesn't mean they aren't offering a good package.

And FYI, stud pitching prospects are worth far more than catching prospects with a plus bat.

There is no way Texas gives up Teagarden for anything less than Bucholz and another high ceiling prospect, he is their catcher of the future, and I don't see the Sox ever doing that. Salty would probably come cheaper, but it would most likely still need to be Bucholz. Montero is probably the cheapest option for the Sox, and he looks like he has potential. But at the same time if a deal gets done, does it take the Sox out of the Joe Mauer derby, assuming there will be one?

Indications are that Boston has already pulled Bowden/Buchholz/Masterson, and yet these talks are supposedly "intensifying."

I think that in the end a deal is built around Daniel Bard, but I'm just saying that the Red Sox have to the depth to figure out a deal even without any of their big time prospects.

So, why is he a releiver in AA? I just dont see him as fitting what AZ wants.

Good control? Really? Last year his stats look OK, but the year before was pathetic. The scouting on his control isnt good.

The Diamondbacks need a start. I dont trade Montero unless I get Clay Buchholz in return.

Heh, Serg Rush,

Boston gives 10 million and Bard. In return they get Montero.

I think you could see something like Montero for Nick Hadagone and another prospect, if the D-bakcs are looking for a starter.

If the sox will not give up Buchholz for Teagarden (good pop solid MLB ready defense), there is no way they will give him up for Montero

I did not mean all-star catcher every year but he has a good chance to make a few all-star appearances.

Kenan and Kei - I just posted what I think they should do - just like others have posted what they thought Boston should do.

My point is only that AZ does not HAVE to make a trade. If BOS doesnt want to up the offer, than they should go to ST with what they have. Thats my opinion.

Bard doesnt fit what AZ would want... I just dont see it. I could be wrong, but i dont see it matching up that way.

A reliever like Bard should not be the centerpiece of this deal. It's not like he is a proven reliever like Mike Gonzalez was during that trade. Bard has not shown anything in the bigs. If a reliever like him was the centerpiece of the deal, Arizona would be laughed at.

Bard might have closer potential, but he also has disaster potential. I need to see him have some success in AA ball before i think about trading montero for him. Bard had success last year, but his walk rate went right back up to 4.7 per 9 when he was promoted. To gamble on a guy like this is really really dumb IMO.

AZ has Sclereth, Pena, Qualls, Rauch for the next two years. After that, relievers are a crap-shoot anyway, and a bunch of draft picks are coming this year for AZ.

Ruse to get Tek to sign.

Hagadone is likely as untouchable as Bowden.

His ceiling is huge and the Sox don't quite know what they have considering he's coming off injury.

He could vault himself into the conversation of elite starting prospects with a big year.

qudjy1,

Ya maybe Webb gets traded. Wow, you would net a huge deal for him. While it would suck to think about losing him, it could more than likely happen. Probably 5 to 6 pretty good prospects for a guy like WEbb with a window to sign him.

"""If he didn't have any flaws he'd already be in the majors..."""

Why would i trade a guy in the majors for a guy with flaws in AA. Im sorry, but blowing away A ball hitters does nothing for me. 8 wild picthes in 49 AA innings? Yeah, his ERA is nice, but i dont see that kind of wildness translating to players in the majors with way better discipline. If its up to me, no way - and it isnt close.

Yankfan - I have no idea what happens with webb - we wants alot of money (as he should). Its a tough choice - if they sign him, someone else will have to go down the line. 20M a year is alot to allocate to one guy when you have a limited budget.

I expect this deal will get done and it won't be earthshattering by any means.

Salty and Teargarden are great prospects but like Bowden/Buchholz none has really proven themselves full time in the majors yet.

That being the case, I stick with cheap pitching every time because having a low cost pitching staff allows for plenty of flexibility all over the field.

The cost of pitching is rising every year while the cost of veteran catchers that hit .220 and call a good game is falling every year as there are more and more of them available.

Replacing Tek's production is easy, replacing an arm that might be useful for 5-6 years is very tough and expensive.

IF Beckett were to sign an extension I'd be more inclined to think the Sox deal a prospect pitcher but without it lets remember:

Wakefield/Smotlz/Penny could all be gone after this season leaving the Sox with several rotation holes.

MVPedrioa: "But at the same time if a deal gets done, does it take the Sox out of the Joe Mauer derby, assuming there will be one?"

I don't think so. You need two catchers. Montero would make a great backup ... or a good trade part for Mauer. My belief is, Mauer will not be traded this winter. If he's traded at all, it will be at the trade deadline in 2010.

If Mauer somehow gets all the way to free agency, the Yankees will just outpay everyone, like always and the Sox will have missed their (slim) chance. I think the only time the Red Sox have ever been able to outbid the Yankees was for Dice-K, on a sealed bid.

Of course, if the new Twins ownership are not the cheapskates that their predecessor was, maybe Mauer will be a Twin for life. In all honesty, that would be better for baseball.

"""Would the D-Backs really trade Montero for Bard? Anything is possible with that franchise. Remember, Josh Byrnes is the same guy who traded half the D-Backs top farm talent for Dan Haren."""

True, but Dan Haren is good. Bard?

I dont know what will happen - but if AZ settles for Bard - i will be extremely disappointed.

""".240-10-30-40"""

I am fairly certain you can expect better than that from Montero. I could see 260/340/460 pretty easily. Esp in fenway.

Bard's outstanding but I'd have to think Masterson is more valued just on the basis that he can still potentially start. I think if Masterson was assured to only be a bullpen option, then at that point you could take Bard.

Love this move for both sides, I'd imagine with Snyder locked up, he'll get the bulk of the playing time, and Montero's value might never be higher, especially if he only has 25-35 games a year in the next few years. If they can acquire a few nice prospects, it makes a lot of sense. Montero could be a very good hitter in Fenway too, I agree.

""".240-10-30-40"""

I am fairly certain you can expect better than that from Montero. I could see 260/340/460 pretty easily. Esp in fenway.

Posted by: qudjy1 | January 12, 2009 at 03:45 PM

qudjy,
I wasn't referring to OBP/SLG.

10 was HR's, 30 was Runs scored and 40 was RBI's.

I think if Montero achieves these stats in 200-250 at bats that is pretty amazing considering it translates to about 20HR/60 runs/80 RBI's over the course of a full season. Not many catchers outside the top tier produce like that.

the stats dont lie - Bard walks a pile of guys, has awful control, and while thats fine for A ball - Major leaguers dont swing at crap.

"""Love this move for both sides, I'd imagine with Snyder locked up, he'll get the bulk of the playing time, and Montero's value might never be higher, especially if he only has 25-35 games a year in the next few years. If they can acquire a few nice prospects, it makes a lot of sense. Montero could be a very good hitter in Fenway too, I agree."""

If no trade was made, AZ would have a real nice Lefty Right Combo - where they both could play alot and stay fresh, and get a pile of PH ABs.

Snyder would prob get 60% of the time (~100 games) and Montero the rest. I think Trading montero should net more than a couple nice prospects if we are convinced to trade him.

I don't think anyone is requesting, or would accept, Hagadone as a major piece of a trade at this point. He'll have to prove that the surgery was successful before he has trade value again.

the stats dont lie. bard has had a sub 2.00 era for the last two years in the minors

Posted by: glen_quagmire | January 12, 2009 at 03:46 PM

Quagmire: Bard hasn't has a sub-2 ERA the past 2 seasons. He did last year (2008) but was a mess in 2007.

"""30 walks in 77 Innings Pitched in 2008 for Bard v.s 107 K's in those same 77 Innings Pitched."""

Its a shame it breaks down like this.

A-Ball - 4 walks in 28 innings = 1.3 bb / 9Innings

AA ball - 26 walks in 49 innings (and 8 Wild pitches) = 4.7 bb / 9 innings.

Its not a good trend.

"""Guess you don't watch much Diamondback baseball....

Guys like Juan Cruz, Jose Valverde, etc.etc. were the exact same way coming up"""

LOL...

Did AZ trade Major league talent for Valverde? We got cruz for Brad Halsey - so im not sure what your point is there.

I don't think anyone is requesting, or would accept, Hagadone as a major piece of a trade at this point. He'll have to prove that the surgery was successful before he has trade value again.

Posted by: Little Bear | January 12, 2009 at 03:55 PM

The Rangers were interested in Hagadone. If healthy, that guy's a beast - a 6'5" hard throwing lefty who's been compared to B.J. Ryan. With him and Papelbon in the 8th and 9th innings, Red Sox starters will be happy campers for years to come.

Montero isn't great value he is pretty unproven as a capable full time major league catcher.

Doesn't sound like a HUGE difference.