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« 2010 Options: St. Louis Cardinals | Main | Free Agent Matchmaker: Braves Need An OF »
Which teams are most likely to become sellers in the next few months leading up to the July 31st trade deadline? To help determine that, let's take a look at Baseball Prospectus' Playoff Odds report. The report gives the following eleven teams less than a 10% chance of making the playoffs:
The report likes the 20-28 Indians more than the 21-25 White Sox, because Cleveland has a better run differential. The report gives the Tribe a 14.4% playoff chance. The Padres have pushed themselves up to 11.94%.
As far as pure offensive production this year, your trade candidate leaders from these eleven are Adam Dunn, Russell Branyan, Brad Hawpe, and Nick Johnson. This year's top pitchers from these non-contenders include Mark Buehrle, Matt Cain, Wandy Rodriguez, Erik Bedard, Jarrod Washburn, and Doug Davis. I'm not sure whether Buehrle, Cain, and Rodriguez will actually hit the market.
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Couldn't you just take the teams, sort them by run differential, take the bottom ten teams, and you would get basically the same thing?
The 10 worst teams, by run differential:
Nationals, Orioles, Astros, Marlins, Mariners, D-Backs, Padres, White Sox, Athletics, and Rockies.
Then take out the Pads because they've been red hot lately, and switch them with the Giants, who have the next worst run differential in that division.
So, basically, at this point, meh..
Posted by: scribbletone | May 28, 2009 at 12:35 PM
If you were wondering why the Cubs aren't on it, keep in mind this list is for one year, not 100.
Posted by: Trivia Jockey | May 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM
I had higher hopes for the Astros this year. I knew they weren't going to be good, but I had a hard time believing they would be this bad. I can't stand our owner because he has some high priced vets, which if they had spent some money on some others they would have had a better chance this year, but instead they didn't and now have a bunch of high priced vets that can't win without some pitching, other than Wandy and Oswalt (who needs to get it together).
I do think Cooper's days are numbered when you can't score runs with 3 people on the team with a .315 or better avg and 5 of your starters have OBP of over .360.
I don't normally blame coaches for a losing team because most of the time they are dealt a bad hand, but this is ridiculous and needs to be addressed. This is by far the worst Astros team I have seen since 2000, but I have only really been a Stros fan since around 94, when I first started watching baseball religiously (9 years old).
Posted by: H-Town-Baller | May 28, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Fixed V-Mart error. Regarding Holliday, note that I was listing offensive leaders this year.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | May 28, 2009 at 12:46 PM
All I can say is that the Braves need to have Hawpe or Dye in the lineup soon, or kiss another season goodbye. I would even take Luke Scott over anyone in the current outfield.
Posted by: BravesRed | May 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM
"I had higher hopes for the Astros this year. I knew they weren't going to be good, but I had a hard time believing they would be this bad."
I believe that this is my chance to throw this out there:
I told you.
All those Houston fans insisted before the season that they could contend and that a rebuilding effort would be ludicrous.
Realistically, they don't stand a chance of winning their division, and the only reason that they won't rebuild is because Drayton McLane is delusional, and also because they saddled NTC's on all of their stars, which was obviously genius.
The Astros have a couple good pieces, but they have some serious issues. Pence is a star and I'd argue he's underrated by a lot of people, Bourn has emerged as a solid hitter, and the veteran core of Berkman/Lee/Tejada is decent.
But the bullpen isn't good and the rotation has serious depth issues (who didn't see that coming with Russ Ortiz pitching every five days..).
I'm just going to do this for all of the Houston fans out there:
Please Drayton. Give up on winning with this core. Figure out a new plan, one that actually includes spending big on the draft and development, rather than trying to slap veterans into stopgap situations, hoping to build a team that can stick around the .500 mark.
Posted by: scribbletone | May 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Adam Dunn would look real sharp in those blue jerseys the braves got, just saying
Posted by: bravoboy10 | May 28, 2009 at 01:01 PM
What do these number mean? Exactly nothing.
Take the White Sox for example. Before last week's 20-1 loss, their run differential was much smaller. One game made for a huge difference at this point, but over a full season the impact will be much smaller.
Do I think the Sox have a shot at the playoffs? Probably not, but they do have a better chance than the current numbers indicate.
As for Buehrle, he's not going anywhere. His contract will stop that, unless some team is desperate and willing to deal heavily in favor of the Sox.
With respect to the comment above about Dye on the Braves: you can have him, but you have to take Lillibridge back too.
Posted by: LaoCain | May 28, 2009 at 01:09 PM
I was one of those that got hammered here when I suggested during the off-season that the Astros had no chance and should trade off Oswalt, Berkman, etc. and rebuild their dismal farm system. These veterans aren't getting more valuable as time goes by. Without action now, I think the 'stros are setting themselves up for a decade long losing streak.
Posted by: MickS | May 28, 2009 at 01:14 PM
I would love for the Braves to trade for Hawpe.....he is young enough to make a difference for this team for the next few years. However, they need to do a sign and trade deal since he can opt out of contract after next season if he is traded. The Braves can't trade prospects for rentals.
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | May 28, 2009 at 01:20 PM
If the nats can also get Nick Johnson gone what about
Atlanta sends Kotchman, Medlen, Acosta, Parr, Johnson, and Redmond to WSH
WSH sends Dunn and Dukes to ATL
Washington gets a quality 2B and 1B proven at ML level, two promising SP prospects, a solid long reliever, and a guy who can become a closer(acosta was 5/7 last year)
Atlanta gets the power they need and this makes McCann even more dangerous as the 5 hitter where he prefers.
Atlanta then sends Francouer down, DFA Garret A. calls up barbaro carnizares, activates campillo, calls up brooks conrad, and finally we call up Tommy Hanson
2B prado
SS escobar
3B jones
LF dunn
C McCann
RF Dukes
CF Schafer
1B Carnizares
bench
norton
conrad
diaz
hernandez
ross
Before you rip this and point out all the flaws please think about the situations of the teams, the economics, and the team needs
Posted by: bravoboy10 | May 28, 2009 at 01:21 PM
Bravo, the Braves would NEVER want Dukes because of his personal problems and issues. And I doubt that they would trade for Dunn either. How bad would they look after failing to sign him last offseason only to trade away valuable prospects for him now.
Also, Carnizares is the one that needs to be traded. He is horrendous defensively.....he needs to go the AL where he can DH. The Braves have groundball pitchers like Lowe and Jurrjens who need solid defensive infielders. Lowe would implode after the first few errors by Carnizares.
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | May 28, 2009 at 01:26 PM
Correection to my previous post, the Sox run diff was not "much smaller" at that point due to a just-ending losing streak that added -17 runs to their differential.
That said, in less than a week after that game, they improved their diff by +19 from a low point of -47, primarily without Carlos Quentin.
My basic point remains that the numbers are very fluid. One hot streak can force a team way up, and one cold streak can drop them way down (see: Cubs).
Posted by: LaoCain | May 28, 2009 at 01:29 PM
Coming from an Astros fan, the Astros need to rebuild, straight up. If this team is allowed to stand as is for the next 4 to 5 seasons, there is going to be a whole lot of losing going on in Houston. Oswalt still has plenty of trade value, while guys like Berkman and Lee (if he can be persuaded to waive his NTC) could bring a considerable bounty of young talent as well.
The Astros don't need to aim for Teixeira-style fleecings here...just solid returns for productive veteran players. The 2002-2005 Diamondbacks can be used as a rebuilding model.
Posted by: Scott B. | May 28, 2009 at 01:31 PM
Yo, how many freaking times must it be written that Matt Cain is NOT available!?
The most valuable trade chip the Giants have available this season is Bengie Molina.
Posted by: kdub | May 28, 2009 at 01:31 PM
14.4% chance??
Wait til we get back Paul Byrd, Koo KoOoOoOooOOOOo!!!!
Posted by: Blue Rauchmann | May 28, 2009 at 01:31 PM
My suggestion for the Braves is to trade either Mike Gonzalez or Rafael Soriano and possibly Kelly Johnson to the Rays for prospects. Flip those prospects to a team that is looking to rebuild who has a young outfielder that can hit for some power and play RF. Either send Francoeur to AAA or trade him if another team wants him. Send a couple of low level prospects to the Nats for Willingham.
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | May 28, 2009 at 01:32 PM
Jermain Dye and Mark Buehrle to the Reds. White sox pick up 1/4 or so of the remaining money in the contracts, and the Reds would be willing to give up some good players i think if theyre still in it. both are very good, and an extension for either of them is not out of the question.
Reds give up:
Micha Owings
Homer Bailey
Drew Stubbs
Todd Fraizer
another C+ or B- prospect
i think that might be a good haul. to be honest i forgot how much Buehrle has left on his contract.
Posted by: GmblngPtchr20 | May 28, 2009 at 01:34 PM
So the Pirates have almost twice as good of a chance of making the playoffs as the White Sox. Not saying the Sox will make the playoffs, but that is just absurd.
Posted by: OmegaMan | May 28, 2009 at 01:39 PM
alright, i'll give you the carnizares sucks defensively but about dukes, my thought was that maybe he could come to a functional organization and bobby and scherholtz would tell him plane and simple they wouldn't put up with his garbage and maybe then he could get his act together. and by the time dunn's price had dropped to 10mil the braves had already signed lowe and kawakami so they didn't have the money left, but now if you dfa anderson and don't call up glavine Dunn's prorated salary is one we can afford. Will you agree though that trade is fair for washington though
Posted by: bravoboy10 | May 28, 2009 at 01:40 PM
bravoboy,
Please, stop commenting on here... Your trade proposals are absurd.
Posted by: BravesRed | May 28, 2009 at 01:43 PM
At this point in the season, these projections mean truly nothing. I bet at least half of the teams currently in first place and given greater than 50% chances at winning their division do NOT end up winning it. I'd be interested to see how the Playoff Odds at this point in past years went on to compare to who actually made the playoffs...
Teams like the Cubs, Indians, and Rays will have MUCH higher percentages in two months. This site currently gives the Tigers a 57% chance at winning the AL Central, the Rangers a 55% chance at winning the AL West, and the Cardinals a 51% chance at winning the NL Central... I don't think any of these teams will win their respective divisions, and these numbers are pretty meaningless, and based off a pretty small section of the season.
Posted by: Browns0286 | May 28, 2009 at 01:44 PM
I really don't think Washington would make the trade and include Dukes....he is one of those uber talented guys and they aren't going to give up on him. They would say that the offer you proposed wasn't enough of a return. They would want prospects like Gorkys Hernandez in the haul. And they really don't need pitching....they have a lot of good young pitchers.
The Braves are one of those organizations (like the Carolina Panthers in the NFL) that places a HIGH degree of value on character. The Braves just wouldn't go for this guy no matter how talented. The Braves front office gets really annoyed with Escobar because of his antics...and Yunel is a choir boy compared to Dukes.
Also, the Braves must pay Glavine whether he plays or not. It is not as simple as just not calling him up. Same goes for Anderson. If he is released, the Braves are still on the hook for his entire salary.
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | May 28, 2009 at 01:48 PM
I'm a huge Astros fan and I have been clamoring for them to rebuild for 2.5 years now. Once we lost Clemens and Pettitte there was no hope with our staff. If McClane doesn't get out of the way and let the GM do his job and rebuild the team there will be many in Houston calling for his head.
Posted by: trevordchi | May 28, 2009 at 01:49 PM
The Giants aren't trading Cain unless they get equal value back, meaning a hitter who is controlled for a similar amount of time. Those trades are very rare, Hamilton-Volquez being the latest I can think of, oh, Young-Garza too.
I think Sanchez is a more likely situation, but still, I don't see the Giants trading off their young players. They have held onto them this long, so it is not like they are not patient.
At worse, they trade off Randy Winn to open up RF for Schierholtz, but I don't see any other trades happening for the Giants.
The likelier bet would be that the Giants trade lesser prospects to take a big salary off another team's books. I can see that happening for a 1B, 3B, or 2B.
Posted by: obsessivegiantscompulsive | May 28, 2009 at 02:00 PM
White Sox- Gmblng, I think it's a real waste putting Micah Owings on an AL team, and I think his bat gets him a bit more attention deserves. Also, I think we can get more total value by trading Dye and Buehrle separately.
Astros- Yeah, everyone says "see, they should be sellers" but until the Astros stop putting together second half runs, they will probably be buyers in the market. Even if you think the notion of being better in the second half is absurd, I don't think the Astros FO does.
Holliday- Would a trade to the Jays make sense? The quality of package would depend on how well he hits until such a trade, but that would make waves on a team that might be inspired by last year's Rays that the division is winnable.
Posted by: mateodh | May 28, 2009 at 02:05 PM
The White Sox went through a rough stretch that is skewing the numbers. I still believe they contend for the division. They never start hitting until the weather gets warm and the pitching is getting back on track.
LOL that anyone thinks Buehrle is on the block. Even if they were giving up on this year, they will never go into full rebuild mode. They may consider moving Dye but they will not be moving any players that are clearly part of the future (Buehrle, Quentin, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Jenks....
They just tried to acquire Peavy - they plan on contending.
Posted by: southsider | May 28, 2009 at 02:08 PM
@GmblngPtchr20 - That package won't net you both of the players you mentioned. Homer Bailey's GO/FO ratio is not good enough for success in Chicago. Same for Micah Owings.
Stubbs would be nice, but not a centerpiece. Frazier appears to be a lesser Stubbs, so acquiring both would not help.
Stubbs and a strong pitching prospect might be enough to get Dye, but it certainly won't net both. The other two parts are not valuable.
It would take a lot more talent than you listed to get both, as Buehrle is having a great year and has some tricks in his contract which may prohibit him from being traded at all.
And don't look for the Sox to pick up any of the money at all...
Posted by: LaoCain | May 28, 2009 at 02:08 PM
Gmblng, I have to disagree with you. That trade makes no sense whatsoever for the reds. The Reds have one of the best rotations in baseball...which already has 2 higher paid vets that compliment the three young guys...Buehrle makes no sense. Go beyond that, the talks last winter were Bailey for Dye. So, looking beyond that, you are giving
Micah Owings...who is already pitching well as a 5th starter without considering his bat
Drew Stubbs...who, as much as I hate to admit it...has really come on this year (I never liked him much)
Todd Frazier...who just flat out rakes
and more for a guy that the reds don't even need.
Posted by: coltholt | May 28, 2009 at 02:12 PM
"Oswalt still has plenty of trade value, while guys like Berkman and Lee (if he can be persuaded to waive his NTC) could bring a considerable bounty of young talent as well."
I highly doubt Lee has much value at all. He's a useful player, but besides Zito, his contract is probably the least team friendly in all of baseball. Unless Houston eats 90% of that salary, they'll be lucky to get a team to take him for nothing.
Posted by: 86 Mets | May 28, 2009 at 02:13 PM
I think it's time that the Mariners REALLY look into trading Ichiro while he still has "some" trade value.
If I was the Marlins, I'd put Hanley on the market despite the contract given to him last season.
Posted by: la16 | May 28, 2009 at 02:16 PM
"And they really don't need pitching...."
Uhhh...bullpen help, please?
Posted by: DCSportsGuy | May 28, 2009 at 02:42 PM
The Mets are 75% chance to make the playoffs? Apparently, the inability to hold a division lead in the past few Septembers doesn't factor into the formula.
And if the Marlins were to put Hanley on the market? You might as well pencil Clay Buchholz into their starting rotation, because the Sox would be after him big time.
Posted by: Gstill45 | May 28, 2009 at 02:58 PM
Not really sure why the Padres get a better chance than the Giants. San Diego's run differential is -29, while San Fran's is -3, with the Giants half a game behind the Pads. Both teams struggle to score runs, while the Giants' pitching is much stronger.
Posted by: ncbowman | May 28, 2009 at 03:05 PM
There has never been any indication that Mark Buehrle is going anywhere. Unless the White Sox office is wiped out from Reinsdorf down, and the team moves to El Paso, I expect him in a Sox uniform for the next 40 years. No joke.
As for Floyd or Thornton, that's another story. Kenny has had no problem trading young arms (McCarthy, Gio Gonzalez, etc.).
Posted by: H0RAT!0SANZSERIF | May 28, 2009 at 03:09 PM
The Angels had a ridiculous 14 game differencial between run diff and actual w-l, those numbers are flawed.
I also refuse to believe any team is out until its mathematically impossible. The lopsided schedule means many games can be made up very quickly. Its not even June yet, and a team like Oakland is loaded with big time 2nd half performers. Kind of odd idea for a post, just sayin.
Posted by: PL | May 28, 2009 at 03:50 PM
"I also refuse to believe any team is out until its mathematically impossible. The lopsided schedule means many games can be made up very quickly. Its not even June yet, and a team like Oakland is loaded with big time 2nd half performers. Kind of odd idea for a post, just sayin."
I won't say that no team is out until they're mathematically out, because I just don't agree with that. Honestly, the Nationals and Orioles are out of it..
But I do agree that this post is fairly odd.
The playoff odds are essentially a list of the ten worst run differentials in the game, and at this point in the season, you just don't have a big enough sample size to consider any type of team statistic as definitive.
If you wanted to go over teams that are likely to sell off players as they drift from contention, why even reference such a seemingly rudimentary system, at least at this point in the season?
Posted by: scribbletone | May 28, 2009 at 04:18 PM
I love this!! Flawed or unflawed as this system may be, 3 of the 4 NL West teams have less than a 10% chance of making the playoffs while the Dodgers have over a 90% chance! Great time to be a Dodger fan!
Also, kind of unrelated but thought that I would throw it out there for fans of the other NL West teams, Kuroda and Manny (when they return) may be the best midseason pickup by any team. Not a trade, but just a couple of useful and productive additions.
On another point, this system is deeply flawed. There are so many intangibles and statistically unmeasurable aspects of the game (injuries, suspensions, etc.) to truly rely on such "predictions." I'm sure that Tim knows this, but he put up the post as a crude measuring stick of what teams are the most unlikely to end up making the playoffs.
Posted by: cutmeibleedblue | May 28, 2009 at 06:11 PM
It's basically to bottom 10 teams in run differential - it's bound to change
Posted by: southsider | May 28, 2009 at 06:22 PM
"I think it's time that the Mariners REALLY look into trading Ichiro while he still has "some" trade value."
How much trade value does a 36 year old singles hitter have that has 68M left on his contract? The team he has the most value to already owns his rights.
Posted by: johns | May 28, 2009 at 06:23 PM
The Nats wont trade dunn this year so i dont know why he is the 1st listed
Posted by: DC Sports Fan | May 28, 2009 at 08:24 PM
Take what they say with a grain of salt. When the Sox clinched the division in 05 they said they had a 98% chance of making the playoffs. They were already in.
Posted by: rype123 | May 28, 2009 at 09:59 PM
"The Braves are one of those organizations (like the Carolina Panthers in the NFL) that places a HIGH degree of value on character."
Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | May 28, 2009 at 01:48 PM
Don't know a whole lot about the Braves FO, but you do realize that the Carolina Panthers employ Juluis Peppers and Steve Smith (who has been suspended 2 years in a row)
Posted by: Yanksallday | May 28, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Well, odds are that one of these teams make a run towards the playoffs at some point. It's a lot of teams, in an age where there's always more "parity"... so some of these trade possibilities will be moot.
And to the Giants fans... why is Bowker being overlooked in all the talk about dealing Winn... Bowker is killing in AAA right now and has solid power numbers. Does his defense really stink, or what?
Posted by: Slider Johnson | May 29, 2009 at 03:44 AM
"Also, kind of unrelated but thought that I would throw it out there for fans of the other NL West teams, Kuroda and Manny (when they return) may be the best midseason pickup by any team. Not a trade, but just a couple of useful and productive additions." - Cutme
Getting Kuroda back might be an improvement, but do you really think the "Manny being Barry" circus is really going to help the Dodgers? If so, you are sadly mistaken.
The Dodgers, while having a very good team, have been very fortunate in playing other teams when they are not playing at their best, while going pretty much without injury (other than Kuroda).
I think it would be prudent to wait until the end of the season to see if the kids pitching don't run out of gas and see who the inevitable injury bug bites before crowning them World Series Champions.
Posted by: A | May 29, 2009 at 09:08 AM
Woot! The Orioles are up from the 1% and smallest chance they hit earlier this month!
Next goal: sole possession of 4th place.
Posted by: wickedwitch | May 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM
"The Dodgers, while having a very good team, have been very fortunate in playing other teams when they are not playing at their best, while going pretty much without injury (other than Kuroda).
I think it would be prudent to wait until the end of the season to see if the kids pitching don't run out of gas and see who the inevitable injury bug bites before crowning them World Series Champions."
Not sure who crowned them the WS Champs, I simply pointed out that they are playing great baseball right now and are likely to become even better. To argue that their record is a result of mostly luck or encountering teams when they are not playing well if foolish and blatantly displays your bias.
The West is quite weak, but the Dodgers are destroying teams within their division and playing quite well against other teams as well. Who have they not played yet that is considered a contender in the NL? Mets? Check (sweep). Phillies? Check. Cubs (playing currently with the series split 1-1). Who's left? You have a point with your prudence comment; however, you don't have much of an argument.
Posted by: cutmeibleedblue | May 29, 2009 at 06:38 PM
Re: comments about Dodgers supposed lack of injuries.
Perhaps you haven't looked at our bullpen. We've lost Kuo, arguably the most effective setup man in all of baseball last season. We've also lost Wade to injury and he has yet to regain his '08 form, and Ohman just recently hit the DL. So, we've been without Kuroda, Manny, Kuo, Wade and now Ohman. Our bullpen hasn't been anywhere near as strong as it was last season, and is our weak point right now.
I have my doubts about Kuroda replicating his '08 success, but he'll almost certainly be an upgrade over Milton or Stults, whomever is dropped. Having Kuroda back (and his ability to go deeper into games than Stults/Milton) should also help the bullpen somewhat.
And, while Pierre has overachieved with Manny suspended, Ethier has been absolutely awful. If he doesn't regain his form before or shortly after Manny's return, we may see a Manny - Kemp - Pierre outfield which (if everybody continues to perform as they have) would give our offense a huge boost.
I do, however, think the notion that the Padres will finish over the Giants is ridiculous. The Giants have a much better and more consistent team. The Padres will come crashing back down to Earth again.
Lastly, even after today's loss, the Dodgers have 6 more wins than the next best team in baseball. It is quite a bit more than just luck and weak opponents. The Dodgers are 8-3 against the East, winning series against the Mets (sweep) and Phillies. And the NL West overall has been stronger than the NL East. The Giants, Padres, and Diamondbacks all have winning records against the NL East, too. And the Dodgers have winning records against all of those teams.
Posted by: dodgersdan | May 29, 2009 at 10:09 PM