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D'Backs Discussed Haren With Angels?
Ken Rosenthal at FOX Sports says that the Angels inquired on Dan Haren, hoping to add the elite starter through a deal that could have included "their surplus of catchers and middle infielders to put together a blockbuster offer." However, the Diamondbacks declined to engage in more serious talks for Haren. Says one D'Backs exec:
"I almost can't conceive of a package that would motivate us to move him."
Rosenthal goes on to say that the Diamondbacks consider Haren an integral piece of their future, but one source indicated that "talks could accelerate" if the Angels bowl over the Diamondbacks with an overwhelming offer. Rosenthal notes this is a sign that teams are trying to get creative in a depleted market for starting pitching.
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For all the teams that are looking for Pitching, Im suprised someone isn't Throwing out a good Package for One of the Braves Pitchers. Considering They need a right handed bat preferably in the out field. Package Javi and Frenchy for someone. I could see that happening.
Posted by: Bravesfan13 | June 30, 2009 at 05:41 PM
That list of players talked about must have been from:
INFIELDERS
Aybar Wood Sandoval Pavkovich Statia Kendrick Izturis Mount Romine
CATCHERS
Mathis Wilson Conger Johnson Walker
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 05:44 PM
That would actually make a lot of sense. Brandon Wood, Mike Napoli, and Sean Rodriguuez would be a good starting point. Maybe another marginal prsopect would be added. The Angels would get a legit ace under their control afordably for a few years. They also say the best trades are the ones that never happen.
Posted by: metfan57 | June 30, 2009 at 05:44 PM
Add one more infielder
Rodriguez
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 05:45 PM
Man-O-Man, add Dan Haren to that Angels staff and you have the best staff since the '71 Orioles you get them all healthy.
I would LOVE to see them get Haren, just to see know it happened/see it and not even an Angels fan.
Posted by: johns | June 30, 2009 at 05:47 PM
Honestly I dont feel that Napoli is touchable. He provides a lot of offense from a spot that usually doesnt get a whole lot of it. I think Napoli is too valuable to trade away.
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 05:48 PM
THe package would likely be more of a "Aybar, Mathis, Wood" Package. I dont believe the angels would trade Napoli.
Posted by: BK | June 30, 2009 at 05:49 PM
Shapiro and Byrnes are making the same mistake. They need to get rid of those pitchers to start rebuilding.
Posted by: BravesRed | June 30, 2009 at 05:53 PM
I think a key guy in all of this is Kendrick. He is quickly becoming lost in the future plans for the Angels and with Izturis currently doing a great job, Howie could become expendable. My package would start with "Kendrick, Mathis, Aybar".
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 05:55 PM
Actually I dont get the Catching aspect. Isn't Montero and Snyder, enough catching for this MLB team. I really would like to see them be smart at this trade deadline.
How about this:
Reynolds to Boston for Bowden and Bard
Jon Rauch and Dan Haren to Angels for Conger,Wood,Chaffee,Rodriguez, and Walden
Doug Davis to Phillies for Jason Donald
If you think that the Haren trade is unfair, just look at what the A's got for him about 2 years ago. He is signed through 2013 with a player option.
Posted by: theJonathan | June 30, 2009 at 05:55 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the surplus of Angels middle infielders = surplus of AAAA infielders? There is not one MI in that group that would move me enough to consider dealing Haren.
Posted by: Mace27 | June 30, 2009 at 06:00 PM
I don't see why the DBacks would even consider a deal with those players being thrown around. Yeah, Napoli is a good offensive catcher, but his defense leaves something to be desired. Brandon Wood is an amazing talent in the minors, but he could be had for a lot less than Haren. He's one of the best pitchers in the league, and rebuilding or not, he's the type of player you'd be crazy to trade unless you get another massive bounty like the A's got, Which didn't really pay off so well either.
Posted by: bigpat | June 30, 2009 at 06:13 PM
Byrnes, seriously, don't trade Haren. Especially after you gave up a huge haul for him in the first place. All the team needs to do to be a winning team again is get a closer and someone to protect Upton. The team could be pretty good in 2010 with a Haren/Webb/Scherzer/Parker/Auginstein rotation. Or Scherzer could be converted into a closer, and bring in another starter. I don't see why they can't be a good team next year.
Posted by: jdub | June 30, 2009 at 06:20 PM
I want the D'backs to trade Haren. Mostly because I'm a huge fan of his and would like him to end up on a team that has some semblance of offense.
Posted by: catswithbats | June 30, 2009 at 07:19 PM
Also this makes me think of what could've happened had the Tigers been willing to give up Miller and Maybin for Haren in 2007.
Posted by: catswithbats | June 30, 2009 at 07:20 PM
"he's the type of player you'd be crazy to trade unless you get another massive bounty like the A's got, Which didn't really pay off so well either." - bigpat
Brett Anderson
Chris Carter
Carlos Gonzalez/Greg Smith = Matt Holliday
Aaron Cunningham
Dana Eveland
Yeah, that didn't pay off for anyone. Holy shite.
Posted by: jpkinney7 | June 30, 2009 at 07:23 PM
Point #1: Keep in mind the DBax might lose Webb to FA. What becomes of their staff without Haren AND Webb? Why would an owner do that to his team? He wouldnt. They are going have either Haren or Webb or both, long term.
Point #2: So apparently the Angels havent looked in the dictionary under "failed prospects" and seen the names and faces of Brandon Wood, Howrie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, Erick Aybar, Sean Rodriguez and Casey Kotchman? You know, those guys that were supposed to be winning MVPs by now? Once you hit 25-26 you arent a blue chip anymore, you are 1 year away from being a failed prospect because you have a hole in your game that isnt fixable. None of these guys have really come close to their ceiling and havent done much at the big league level.
Hank Conger? Laughable prospect, maybe a cup of coffee but most likely plateaus as a backup C. He's a perfect example of Angels being like the Mets and hyping the living hell out of their prospects because they saw Beane always going for prospects and over-rated them to all hell.
Wood+Rodriguez have horrific plate discipline and wont ever be as good as the Angels say they are, if they were, they'd be stars in the game already, like Justin Upton, make sense?
Posted by: PL | June 30, 2009 at 07:43 PM
Best staff since the 1971 Orioles? Did someone completely miss the Braves staff in the 1990's? Seriously compare the 1998 Braves staff (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1998-pitching.shtml) to the 1971 Orioles (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1971-pitching.shtml) and it isn't even close. The Braves pitching staff as a whole was 28% better than league average in 1998, while the O's were just 12% better. Baltimore's best SP has an ERA+ of 125, while Atlanta got a 187 from Maddux, 168 from Glavine, and a 143 from Smoltz. Hell, Palmer was the only guy on that staff with a better ERA+ than Atlanta's #4 starter in 1998, Denny Neagle. And even with Haren, the Angels staff isn't going to be challenging the Braves 1998 group anytime soon.
Posted by: nixa37 | June 30, 2009 at 07:49 PM
I was actually just thinking earlier today of when the Mets had the best offer on the table for Dan Haren, and it began with Lastings Milledge, lol
Posted by: PL | June 30, 2009 at 07:52 PM
Sorry, the Angels just do NOT have the pieces.
1- If Haren is traded, he is going to command a package EQUAL TO OR BIGGER than the package the DBacks gave up because he's got more years on his contract than he did when the A's traded him at a WAY below market rate, aka a massive bargain.
2- The Angels just don't have the elite prospects to pull off a Haren trade. Here's a rundown, using rankings at the end of 2007:
2 elite prospects (Anderson + Gonzalez)
2 middle prospects (Cunningham + Carter)
2 MLB ready BOR starters (Eveland + Smith)
No way the Angels can fill that up.
Posted by: melonis rex | June 30, 2009 at 09:17 PM
Taking that should be an automatic pink slip for Byrnes. Especially with how Anderson is finely emerging.
"Jon Rauch and Dan Haren to Angels for Conger,Wood,Chaffee,Rodriguez, and Walden
Doug Davis to Phillies for Jason Donald"
And Josh Byrnes gets fired the next day, I assume?
"he's the type of player you'd be crazy to trade unless you get another massive bounty like the A's got, Which didn't really pay off so well either."
huh?
How many 21 year olds are pitching in MLB and making the adjustments as they go on like Anderson is? This guy was a top 25 prospect coming into the season.
Too early to tell on Cunningham and Carter.
Eveland is your run-off-the-mill 4th-5th starter. He's just been pushed out of the A's rotation. He's a #4-5 on at least 20 teams.
Posted by: melonis rex | June 30, 2009 at 09:26 PM
I just can't see this working out for either team. First of all, the D-Back overpaid dearly for Haren's services, there'ss no way he's being traded unless there's an offer than tops the one they gave Oakland. Secondly, Haren isn't worth all the Angels top prospects. Pitching in the AL is much different than the NL west, which was obvious by the way Anaheim blew through that entire division.
It would take Aybar, Rodriguez, Kendrick, Conger, Walden and Bell to land Haren.
The Angels are looking at cutting a deal of Wood, Rodriguez, Conger and Reckling for Haren, which is still overpaying, and that's still not enough for Arizona.
Just so everyone gets the correct value of each of these prospects:
1. Wood, he's going to be a .260 30 DB 30 HR SS/3B when given the chance.
2. Rodriguez. .250 30 DB 20 HR 2B/SS.
3. Conger, .290 30 DB 15 HR catcher.
4. Kendrick, .300 40 DB 10 HR 2B.
5. Walden. John Lackey type of starter, front of the rotation projection.
6. Reckling. Like Barry Zito with a better fastball and less control, middle of the rotation projection.
7. Bell. Lively slider, good fastball, either back end of the rotation or potential closer.
In reality if it's totally fair, the right deal would be Kendrick, Conger, Walden and Reckling for Haren.
Never gonna happen, for either side.
Posted by: Scott | June 30, 2009 at 09:41 PM
If I was Reagins I would offer:
Saunders
O'Sullivan
Kendrick/Aybar
Mathis/Conger
Reckling/Bell
for
Haren
Qualls.
Posted by: socalbsbl | June 30, 2009 at 10:01 PM
dbacks will never trade haren, atleast not anytime soon and its pointless to even have this discussion. Pitching is all the Dbacks have and if it wasnt for that they'd have half the wins they have now bc there offense is absolutely dreadful. Webb and haren puts the Dbacks in contention and they also have sherzer. If webb wasnt injured theyd actually be in contention
Posted by: Cwsbaseballyes | June 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM
"If webb wasnt injured theyd actually be in contention"
But Webb is injured and the D-Backs are not in contention. Plus too there is uncertainty in Webbs future as well. If Arizona can get back a large haul that could fill in some of their holes for Haren then I think they will pull the trigger. Wouldn't any team?
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 10:43 PM
D backs get
3B Matthew Brown
SS Erick Aybar
C Ryan Budee
2B Howie Kendrick
Angels Get
SP Dan Haren
RP Chad Qualls
Put Wood @ short
Izturis at 2nd
and then if John Lakey doesn't sign in the offseason The Angels Aren't doomed or in need of an ace
As Tony Reagens I trade 7 middle infielders and prospects for A starting Pither a Releif Pitcher And A Much needed bat because Vlads on the decline.
Posted by: chris mlb expert | June 30, 2009 at 10:50 PM
Chris
D-Backs get screwed on that deal. They would want a catcher who could start everyday and produce and Matt Brown would have to be Wood in your proposed deal.
Posted by: socalbsbl | June 30, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Chris
I wouldn't go as far as saying the D-Backs get screwed, it is a nice start with Aybar and Howie but more needs to be added.
Posted by: #1 Angels Fan | June 30, 2009 at 11:01 PM
HAREN SUX, DIAMONDBACKS SUCK, ANGELS SUCK!PERIOD
Posted by: EastCoastBiasedmy*** | June 30, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Judging by the needs of the D-Backs and the going rate of certain positions and prospects, the D-Backs would require 1 OF, 1 2B, 1 1B, 1 Catcher and 1-2 pitchers. The D-Backs are in desperate need of players that will get on base, catchers than can hit and pitchers. Therefore, this would be the dealbreaker here (if there was such a thing, I don't think there is).
Gary Matthews Jr and cash, Sean Rodriguez, Howie Kendrick, Hank Conger, Trevor Reckling and Sean O'Sullivan for Haren.
Unfortunately, for the Angels, that is too much to give up. Reckling may be as good as Haren by the time he's 25. We'll need Rodriguez in the Of sooner or later, Kendrick will return to form, he's still only 26 and soon enough for would be worth Haren alone, and Conger has an MLB ready bat at age 20.
Not to mention, it doesn't look like the Angels will need Haren to win the division. My best guess is, that if the Angels do put together a good enough group of players, it won't be until the offseason.
Posted by: Scott | June 30, 2009 at 11:54 PM
"Am I the only one that thinks the surplus of Angels middle infielders = surplus of AAAA infielders? There is not one MI in that group that would move me enough to consider dealing Haren."
No, you are not alone. But the weird thing is, it seems Angels fans see those 4A types and think a couple of them together is too much to give up for one of the better pitchers in the game on a really cheap longterm contract. I dont get it at all.
And I mean really, it is strange. The Angels have apparently had one of the top systems for most of the 2Ks. Yet for all that time and all that hype, what strong positional players have they produced? I seriously cant remember a single star coming from their system. I guess Figgens would be the biggest star they really created, but he wasn’t even one of the hyped ones. Kotchman is arguably productive if you value his defense at first that much and completly downplay it being a position you look for production with the bat. Is anyone else even in the bigs with a steady job really?
I'm dead serious, what has the Angels system given us other then endless hype?
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 01, 2009 at 12:53 AM
you can compete still with good pitching, and haren is elite, i wouldnt trade him 4 prospects
Posted by: Cwsbaseballyes | July 01, 2009 at 01:07 AM
"I'm dead serious, what has the Angels system given us other then endless hype?"
I guess nothing statistically worthwhile. Obviously Rodriguez and Wood have torn up AAA, but have been blocked by consistent play by Aybar and Izturis. If your argument that Aybar and Izturis don't put up stats, my counter is that they play TREMENDOUS defense and, honestly, the Angels keep winning. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Posted by: AHaloForever | July 01, 2009 at 01:12 AM
Isn't this really a misleading headline? The Angels asked about Haren. There's really little or no sign that the Dbacks discussed a potential trade.
There's no reason to make it sound like the Dbacks are shopping him around.
Posted by: Fianna | July 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM
SuzysMan, I agree the hitting hasn't quite panned out as expected. One could argue Napoli since he has the highest ever hr/ab ration, but he has never been given a full year and may not if we re-sign vlad (hope not). However, the pitching that has come from our farm system is pretty damn impressive: Lackey, K-Rod, Shields (up until this year has been the best set-up man), Santana, Saunders, Jered Weaver, etc... So to completely focus on the failures of the hitting prospects is a bit unfair. Additionally, Wood, Rodriguez, and other hitter currently in the minors have never been given a full-time position in the majors so they may indeed pan out when given the chance.
The biggest problem I have with Mike's managing is that he is extremely timid to play young hitters while very willing to play young pitchers - pretty weird and that could be part of the reason the hitting prospects hadn't panned out thus far. Also, Mickey Hatcher is a awful hitting coach IMO and is only there due to his friendship with Scoscia
Posted by: Halotoyou | July 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM
Quick list of guys that have come up from the Angels organization over the past 7 years:
-- Francisco Rodriguez
-- John Lackey
-- Jared Weaver
-- Ervin Santana
-- Joe Saunders
-- Casey Kotchman
-- Howie Kendrick
-- Eric Aybar
-- Chone Figgins
-- Mike Napoli
That's 4 All-Stars with possibly another 3 that are deserving based off this year. They lost their top pitching prospect in the fatal car accident. Their top positional prospects are currently blocked.
Sure, guys like Kotchman and Kendrick have been disappointments but this isn't just Angel fans hyping their own guys. Kendrick was a consensus top prospect and Kotchman was in everyone's first round of the draft.
The fact is that the Angels have had more than their fare share of top talent graduate to the ML level. While the minor league system isn't top 10 they do have plenty of high ceiling talent.
Posted by: bjsguess | July 01, 2009 at 01:46 AM
Agreed, only Mike Scioscia is dumb enough to block someone like Brandon Wood, with someone like Erick Aybar. Basically there's a utility infielder meant for the bench blocking 30+ HR's from the SS position every year.
By the time Wood is 35, he will have hit .280 40 DB 40 HR 20 SB more than once. IT's incredible the Angels take a SS like that and make him a 3B, and now they are trying him at 1B. HE's an above average major league SS defensively. It's all so mind boggling.
Posted by: Scott | July 01, 2009 at 03:31 AM
Trading Haren for a mountain of players would be completely ridiculous. The Dbacks are playing poorly, I understand that. But, they have a number of position players stepping up. Reynolds, Upton and Lopez are all doing great. Trading one of the top pitchers in the league for a combo of infielders, outfielders and pitching wouldn't do anything to improve the Dbacks team as a whole.
The Dbacks won the 2001 world series behind the pitching of two aces, and that should be the case for the near future with Webb and Haren.
They won't make it back to the playoffs using a mountain of mediocre players.
But I don't have a single problem with getting rid of Qualls, or anyone in the Dbacks bullpen for that matter...
Posted by: Jude22 | July 01, 2009 at 08:52 AM
bjguess
Yes, I know the Angels have produced solid arms. Some may argue they are enhanced by the stadium they play in, much like the pitchers in Oakland. But overall, that is an area of strength.
However, the bats seem to have never shown up. I will give you Figgens, he is an integral part of your club and every other year is he in the top-10 at third. But outside of him, it is rather bleak.
Napoli hits very well, but it is not that easy to get excited about someone who plays such a small percentage of the games. Overall, for as good a hitter as he might be, the Angels catcher position has hit only .233/.320/.397/.717 (ranks 18/30). It might just be Scioscia, or maybe he is physically able to hold up if he was playing more. No matter, his value is dramatically hurt by his extremely limited playing time year after year.
Kotchman, I’m sorry, is borderline horrible. Morales is hitting well right now, but it still merely puts him in the middle of the pack as far as overall value for a first baseman. Kendrick hasn’t shown anything other then inconsistency and a tendency to hurt himself; and do not overlook the fact that his already uninspiring career line is actually helped a bunch by the .342 BAbip. And Aybar’s fielding is not enough to make up for his complete inability with the bat.
Then you have Rodriguez and Wood where one has to question why they would be unable to supplant utility types like Aybar and Izturis for a job. It was said above that he is hesitant to play youngster position players, but between Aybar, Morales and before him Kotchman, the catchers, Kendrick, and even Izturis is/was rather young and inexperienced. I can only guess that maybe he is unwilling to sacrifice the defense, which would have an unknown negative affect on the pitchers production, for some offensive boost. But then one would ask why they didn’t long ago trade these assets when their value was higher if their offensive mind-states do not fit the teams philosophy of playing to the ballpark tendencies.
Whatever the case, if I am the GM of another club, I am extremely cautious about Angels hitting prospects. The ones we have seen havent gotten close to the production they were supposedly to possess. The ones we havent seen are basically being blocked by utility types. And if I am trading them Haren, I am looking almost exclusively at pitching with next to no conversation spent on Catchers or Middle Infielders.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 01, 2009 at 11:24 AM
(oops, sorry about spelling Figgins wrong up there)
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 01, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Too bad the Angels didn't get Miguel Cabrera for Howie Kendrick, a live arm, and a handshake when they had the chance.
Posted by: aap212 | July 01, 2009 at 12:15 PM
1. Dan Haren is not moving anytime soon. The D-Backs have enough young parts to think they can put together a competitive team next year. The only players they should be moving this summer are those with expiring contracts.
2. If the D-Backs somehow decided to trade Haren, they're going to shop him around, and another team is going to offer a much better package than the Angels can muster. There's not a blue-chip prospect in the bunch of guys discussed here, and a lot of question marks. You're telling me that Texas or San Francisco or Boston wouldn't jump in on Haren and his contract? The guy would win the NL Cy Young if the season ended today. Get real people.
Posted by: robdeer | July 01, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Dan Haren is not going anywhere. I'm a Giants fan, but the NL West is so up and down that every team has a chance at being the top team on a year to year basis.
On a side note... the Giants would have no interest, or use, for Dan Haren. Pitching is hardly the Giants weakness!
Posted by: JT | July 01, 2009 at 02:45 PM
I really think that Angel fans need to stop with their man crushes on Wood and Sean Rodriguez. Figgins, Ayabr and Izturis are exceptional defenders and average hitters(expect Figgins, he's above average...and he should be resigned).
Angels are already leading the majors in team batting average, infield hits, and moving runners from 1st to 3rd on base hits....so I don't see why Angel fans need a Wood or Rodriguez.
They're scoring enough runs without the home runs. If Abreu and Vlad were hitting like themselves, they would be supplementing the team those extra HR's that Wood and Sean Rodriguez could add. At this point they'd bring the team down.
Keep Wood on the roster next year, but don't give him the starting job.
I'd like to see this line-up next year:
3rd Figgins
2nd Izturis
RF Abreu*
CF Hunter
LF Rivera
1St Morales
DH Napoli
C Mathis
SS Aybar
* I'd re-sign Abreu again if he finishes the season with at least 18 HRs. Holiday could be a good option in that spot.
Speaking of Dan Haren, I would trade: Willits, Kendrick, Wilson, & Walden or Wood.
The main thing the Angels need is Bullpen help. Speier, Bulger, Oliver, Escobar, & Lackey are all free agents this off season.
They should only pick up Oliver again to be a lefty specialist.
And depending on how Speier does, they should only pick him up again for one year to be a 7th inning guy at the most ONLY if he finishes with an ERA under 4.00.
Posted by: cuscus85 | July 01, 2009 at 03:00 PM
This definitely makes sense and the Angels have the pieces. The package starts with Howie Kendrick, a lifetime 306 hitter in the majors and 360 in the minors. He will win a batting title. Possibly Aybar at short. He has only made 2 errors in the past 43 games. He's a 280-300 hitter with speed. Anthony Ortega, left handed pitcher with great stuff. Sean O'Sullivan. 93mph fatball and has been very impressive in his first three starts. A big man with major presence on the mound. That's two pitchers who will be in their rotation and two starters up the middle. Wood would step in for the Angels at short. This would also leave the Angels with bodies to trade for a reliever. Arizona gets 4 players, 2 of whom who will play everyday.
Posted by: Hey You! | July 03, 2009 at 05:17 PM
"I seriously cant remember a single star coming from their system."
That's because you didn't do your research.
Someone made a list earlier, which was a good list and showed mostly quality starting pitchers and one of the Game's best closers.
I would like to ask why you think stars are only developed in all other positions other than pitcher. That's what your logic suggested.
Since 1986, the Angels have produced an everyday player every single season.
And a LOT of them have become All-Stars and/or World Champions.
Here's a list of some valuable players that came from the Angels' system...
Roberto Hernandez, Wally Joyner, Devon White, Jim Abbott, Paul Sorrento, Dante Bichette, Tim Salmon, Garrett Anderson, Jim Edmonds, J.T. Snow, Lee Stevens, Troy Glaus, Darin Erstad, Troy Percival, Adam Kennedy, David Eckstein, John Lackey, Francisco Rodriguez, Ervin Santana, Bobby Jenks, Joe Saunders, Mike Napoli
(A few of these players were traded for and brought up)
And since 2000, this club has brought up so many players that they have had competition in most positions.
That's why it APPEARS that these players are overhyped.
Brandon Wood is blocked because there is no room for him. Angels are deep.
Look at all the injuries the Angels have sustained, and then look at how they hung in there with those so-called AAAA prospects.
Angels prospects have had to win their positions, BTW.
Keeps them on their toes.
Why do you think USC Football is so freakin' good?
Posted by: XxRyana.k.a.RufusxX | July 04, 2009 at 12:04 PM