Discussion: Which Team Has The Best Young Core?

Go ahead Braves fans:

The Mets don't have the quantity of some other teams, but they do have Reyes and Wright, who are arguably better then any other two "young" guys on another team. They also have Pelfrey, Murphy, Parnell, and Martinez.

What about the Rangers with Hamilton, Salty/Ramirez/Teagarden, Cruz, Davis, Kinsler , Andrus and Holland?

Atlanta with McCann, Escobar, Jurrjens, Hanson, Johnson.

It depends if you are talking about quantity or quality. It also depends if you are only including guys on ML rosters right now.

im going with the dodgers, even though im biased. They have the guys listed, along with Cory Wade, Kuo, Belisario(isnt from our system, but finally gave him a chance at the MLB), McDonald, etc. They not only have young talent, like the Marlins, Dbacks, etc, But they are producing as a team, and therefore winning.

Having said that, my vote is for the L.A. Dodgers, at least at the moment.

And, I'll go on the record saying the Red Sox young core is, albeit good, slightly overrated.

I hate to sound like a homer, but I watch the Red Sox every night on NESN and i thoroughly enjoy the young players they have. The maturity that they have is from the program that the Red Sox have them go through when they are in the minors to handle the media. I really like this, as it helps them to handle the pressures of the media in Boston. I hope more franchises adopt a program like this so prospects with such high ceilings would not fizzle out due to pressure as often. Feel free to attack me but, I'm open to criticism and I would never shove the Red Sox down your throats like some other Sox fans on this site, as I'm embarrassed to admit. We don't have the best prospects in baseball, but I do like them, and the program they go through to get to the majors.

I would probably agree that it's between the Dodgers and the Rays, but the A's and Rangers should probably be in this discussion, too.

Texas has Andrus, Davis, Salty, Holland, and a couple older, but still fairly young guys like Kinsler and Cruz. I guess more guys are still in the minors.

Oakland definitely should, though, with Cahill, Anderson, Outman, Mazzaro, Braden, Suzuki, even Barton, Buck and Sweeney, even though they've disappointed so far in their young careers.

I'm going redsox they have a minor league pitching staff that could probably be a professional staff

Papelbon is 29 hardly qualifying as young core as Dodgers' and Rays' young core do. Delcarmen is 27 btw but i guess he could be considered one

and my answer is Dodgers with Rays being close second. Sox are bit away from them

"Go ahead Braves fans:"

haha this made me laugh.

BUT

I do think they deserve at least a mention with:

McCann, Johnson, Schafer, McLouth, Escobar, Kotchman, Hanson, Jurrjens, Medlen, all to some degree.

I don't think they're number one, but in the top 4-5. In a few years, though, maybe.

Brewers: Braun, Fielder, Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, Gamel, Escobar, Parra?

It has to be the Reds, they have Volquez, Cueto, Bruce, Votto, Encarnacion, Phillips is still pretty young, we also have Micah Owings who is 26, Chris Dickerson, Herrera, Masset, and Burton. Give the Reds a year and they will be consistant winners. They also have Alonso coming up along with Frazier. Then in like 4 years we have Juan Duran and Yorman Rodrigez

Papelbon is 29 hardly qualifying as young core as Dodgers' and Rays' young core do. Delcarmen is 27 btw but i guess he could be considered one

and my answer is Dodgers with Rays being close second. Sox are bit away from them

Posted by: The Goggles Do Nothing | June 19, 2009 at 10:02 PM

I had no idea they were that old. I guess it makes sense though. Thanks for the correction, guess I should have done my research haha.

"nrmax, the thing with the mets is Wright is a stud, but many scouts fear that Reyes is at his peak. It would be a shame, but it could be true."

Buster Olney isn't "many scouts", he is just idiot. Even if Reyes has stopped getting better, which I don't believe to be the case, he has still been worth well over 5 WAR in his last 3 years.

(joke)

"Brewers: Braun, Fielder, Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, Gamel, Escobar, Parra?"

Good point.

It's gotta be the Orioles right now. One of the best outfields in baseball, consisting of 25 year old Nick Markakis, 23 year old Adam Jones and 25 year old Nolan Reimold. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Throw in the super-hyped Matt Weiters at a premium position, catcher. Pitching-wise, Jim Johnson and Chris Ray should be shut-down pieces in their bullpen. The only member of their rotation at the moment that really stands out to me is 23 year old Brad Bergesen.
But take a look at the arms in the minor leagues for this club. Tillman, Matusz and Arrieta are three hyped prospects with high ceilings. Add in Brandon Erbe, Zach Britton, David Hernandez and Troy Patton, and that's a hell of a core. Don't be surprised if Brandon Snyder becomes a masher at the DH spot for the O's, either.

Best young core is the Dodgers. Martin, Kemp, Ethier (an example of why Billy Beane isn't as good as people think), Loney, Billingsley, Kershaw, Broxton, Troncoso, Wade, Bellisario, etc.

"Buster Olney isn't "many scouts", he is just idiot. Even if Reyes has stopped getting better, which I don't believe to be the case, he has still been worth well over 5 WAR in his last 3 years."

Exactly. Even without further development, Reyes is an elite player at his position.

Sorry to continue on with the Orioles, but I was having this discussion earlier with a friend and I wanted to put it out here for discussion, just for fun, and it's kind of germane to the topic:

We pretty much decided (full disclosure, in case you haven't already noticed, we are O's fans) that we wouldn't trade our starting outfield - Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, and Nolan Reimold - for any other starting outfield in the majors...

Anybody think there's a better trio out there?

(hold the Braves jokes hehe)

In my opinion i feel that the Los ngeles Dodgers have the bestcore of young talent among the major league teams. Jonathn Brxton has become a sloid closer for the Dodgers, after taking over for Takishi Sito. Matt Kemp is oe of the best offensive players in baseball, and still developing. He could potentially become a five tool player. James Loney is a lock for first base. He is kind of a John Olerud in his prime. Great runner producer.The same goes for Andre Eithir, he is a player you want on any team. Plays hard and seems focused on the plate. The pitchers Billingsly and Kershaw have ace potential and amazing stuff. Finally, the leader ofthis team, the running catcher Russell Martin. He is sound defensively, he controls possibly one ofthe bst pitching staff in baseball, considering the starters they have. He has a soild bat. All of these players are developing on a possible division winning team.

Ishikawa is J.T. Snow without the bat. Think about it.

I know they justly receive a lot of flak for some bad contracts and fading older guys, but Verlander, Jackson, Porcello, Perry, Zumaya, Granderson, and Cabrera aren't too bad of a core for the Tigers.

Boston is clearly no.1 as their young core is the most established although Tampa is a close 2nd and could be first soon if their core matures quicker. Texas would be third ahead of the dodgers IMO.

I think the Detroit Tigers should get some love here too. They have very deep young pitching--Porcello, Jackson and Verlander are all in their early-mid 20's, no other team has a better top 3 of the rotation, much less a better young three pitchers. Add young talent like Curtis Granderson and Miguel Cabrera and the Tigers look like a team that is setting up nicely for a 4-5 year run.

Hey Mike, what the (sexual intercourse) was up with Girardi having Tomko start the 9th in a 4 run game *with Rivera already warming behind him*? If you don't trust your 12th man enough to go alone, don't bring him in.

@LakersDodgersyankees4life:

It isn't really very close. Longoria currently has an OPS of .986 and a career OPS of .913. Kemp's .859/.824 and Ethier's .835/.834 don't really compare.

Sox fan here and I agree that it's fun to watch a strong core group of kids in the system, and we're so follow the team that we look way down the road now, so guys like Lars Anderson, Mike Bowden, Josh Reddick, Casey Kelly and Kris Johnson could contribute.

Now the part that'll get me laughed out of here --

I live in DC and despite their utter awefulness, they have the makings of a great young staff:

J. Zimmerman (23)
Lannan (24)
Martis (22)
Detwiler (23)
Stammen (25)
Strausburg (hopefully he'll sign) (21)

Very encouraging. If they get the 1st pick next year and take Bryce Harper to go with Ryan Zimmerman, they could start to rise quickly in the NL east.

How about the Cubs a team whose not on this list with Randy Wells, Jose Ascanio, David Patton, Geovany Soto, Andres Blanco, Micah Hoffpauir, Angel Guzman. If I had to go with the list though, it would be The Dodgers.

How about the Cubs a team whose not on this list with Randy Wells, Jose Ascanio, David Patton, Geovany Soto, Andres Blanco, Micah Hoffpauir, Angel Guzman. If I had to go with the list though, it would be The Dodgers.

Right now, maybe the Phillies with Ibanez, Victorino, and Werth...but in a few years I believe the O's could have the top OF

Posted by: THEBIGFISH99 | June 19, 2009 at 10:51 PM

I'm a Phillies fan, and I would swap our OF for the Orioles OF in a second if we had the chance, even just based on this year and not the future.

The Orioles deserve more than just a consideration they are the team to beat in the next 4-5 years.With markakis, Jones, Weiters, Roberts,Reimold,Scott..the lineup is going to be potent as anyones for years to come..I won't even mention the pitching they have.It's a lock.

I'm a Phillies fan, and I would swap our OF for the Orioles OF in a second if we had the chance, even just based on this year and not the future.

Posted by: JohnG | June 19, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Well that's why i said maybe haha...I actually am an O's fan and I wouldn't trade our OF either..I was just responding to the guy because no one else was

The Nationals don't really have any big pieces right now besides the two Zimmermans (no strasburg does not count). The Orioles OF is easily the best especially when you see what Luke Scott is doing this year as well. No way the Cubs are anywhere near the top of the list of teams with a nice, young core. Soto is really the only intriguing name you listed and you can add Marmol, Theriot, and Fontenot but that's not very impressive

"How about the Cubs a team whose not on this list with Randy Wells, Jose Ascanio, David Patton, Geovany Soto, Andres Blanco, Micah Hoffpauir, Angel Guzman. If I had to go with the list though, it would be The Dodgers."

hahaha, good one. The Cubs aren't even top 10 with that list. I sure hope that was a joke but I know how much Chicago fans tend to overvalue their players.

Cute.

(To elaborate beyond a snarky one word response, there is a huge gap between #6 on those combined lists and #7 and #8. Ellsbury and Masterson are unquestionably the latter two. Its a huge, huge gap.)

Who is Polonia?

An underrage girl loving LF from the early 90s Yankees. An (apparently poor) attempt to say "anyone else".

26 and under is what i could consider young nucleus. The Rays quartet is better as listed but the red sox have much more quantity so they can make up for the difference in quality

"In my opinion young core players should be 25 or younger. because with arbitration the 26+ would go into their 30s which isn't always a peak for players. But hey my opinions aren't always the norm what is the age you should consider players apart of the young core?"

I think you're right in that core is poorly defined but wrong in focusing on age. Cost controlled is probably more important; be it a 28 year old who hasn't even hit arb yet or a 23 year old who got locked up to a long term deal.

"Cute."

I know.

But wanted to eliminate a 7th inning reliever vs a starting C, an injured SS vs an oft injured SP who has sucked absolutely (profanity) this year.

2 pitchers(each), a CF(each) and a 'team mvp' all young talent seemed a more reasonable discussion.

Crude math I've got the Rays 4some at 16.5 WARP, and the Sox 4some at 18.0 WARP, non position adjusted. It is quite a collection of talent. I'd want the Rays talent because of a lower median age, and the chance the BJ Upton lives up to his potential.

It's gotta be the Braves. They have Francoeur!

Seriously, I'll go Rangers, Rays, Marlins, Red Sox, Braves, Brewers, Orioles, Reds, Giants, Dodgers, Nationals. None of the rest are really worth mentioning.

arodsucks remember that price hasn't pitched much this year so the WAR estimates aren't exactly fair

Sox fan, but liking the Dodger up and comers. Actually every one that was mentioned. Like most of the Sox mentioned, but lukewarm on Ellsbury (OBP) and Lowrie/Masteron as major leaguers. Expecting Rays core players mentioned to be top notch in 1-2 years

Braves and O's players seem like they're still a few years away

I'd take Ellsbury just because I think he's the safer bet, Upton plays terrible D, and Jacoby will likely get on base more and steal more bases during their careers. Upton holds an edge in power but is too inconsistent. On talent alone, he'd be the pick but there are other things to consider

"Other things" like Upton's better career OBP (ie: better ability to get on base) and the fact that he's one year younger and not a career CF? Ellsbury is more Gardner than Upton.

"a CF(each)"

C'mon, dude. I know he's in a slump but Upton and Ellsbury aren't in the same stratosphere. If Theo were given a chance to swap, he'd accept quicker than you can say "all the Sox fans who chastised the Yankees over DLing Wang with a case of the sucks will go quiet when Matsuzaka gets the same treatment later this week".

Posted by: Not Joe Morgan

I've been wanting a Dice-K DL trip for a month, I didn't need Smoltz to be ready. I'd take Charlie F'ng Zink over him.

I'm not comparing Jacoby to BJ only 4 people who play similar positions.

I'd trade Jacoby for BJ Upton in .00000001 of a second.

I'm a redsox fan, but i have to admit that the dodgers have the best current major league core, with the rays right behind them. redsox are a somewhat close third.

(I know a certain CF who had a stellar first 33 games that has rose-colored his mediocre at best production to date.)

Lester > Kazmir

The fact that Kazmir could be dropped from the Rays top 4 should be all we need to say about the head to head comparison.

The OBP is 10 points different. Ellsbury has a better K %, Upton has a .003 SLG advantage, slight OPS lead, ellsbury has a much higher speed score, ellsbury 88 for 105 on SB and upton is 106 for 139 (adv. ellsbury), and he also plays better D. So I guess it depends on what you're looking for but Ellsbury is a much better top of the order guy and im not sure a career ops of .770 (upton) plays well in the middle of a lineup