Red Sox To Talk Trades, Might Deal

The Sox need either Big Papi or Lars Anderson to start hitting.

And they'll give Jed Lowrie a chance to show that he can get healthy and play a solid shortstop.

They've got money, so they should deal Lugo to the Nationals (and pay 90% of his salary) for Nick Johnson. Now. That gives Big Papi another kick in the butt, and doesn't cost much personnel-wise. The Nats could make Lugo their second baseman and leadoff guy. Nick Johnson would be a solid #3 hitter, while he's healthy, which should take us to the trade deadline...

There has been much hype about the Red Sox excess pitching but right now their best pitcher has been Wakefield.I think Lester and Beckett will be fine but I don't see much with Dice-K and Penny.So unless Theo wants to trade Bucholtz I don't see much coming back in a trade.Plus Bucholtz hasn't delivered consistently in the majors.

I think the Padres would take Buchholz, Bard, and Anderson in a heartbeat for Gonzalez...even as good as Gonzalez is.

I think Buchholz, Bard, and Anderson is a pretty good haul for San Diego at this point.

but it's also decimating an offense that is already pretty awful.

an offensive, MLB ready, player has to be included.

I love the Sox fans that think Nick Green is a trade chip.

The only way the Sox trade Lugo to the Nationals for Nick Johnson is if the Nats do an immediate sign and trade with Strasburg after the draft. Lugo is just too much of a commodity to come back empty handed.

Anyone want Orlando Cabrera from the A's?

I agree, I forgot about Blanks however Anderson's athleticism could make for a possible outfield move if he was to be moved to the Padres in a deal.

If not Anderson then Hagadone, Bucholz, Bard and Green then? That way they could still get Hardy for Bowden and more.

And to the guy that made fun of people for thinking Green is a trade chip. I wasnt saying he was a trade chip however he could make for a nice addition to a bigger deal especially for a team in need of a SS like SD or a team giving one up like Milwaukee. Im aware that if the Brewers traded Hardy, it would be Escobar taking over at SS but with Weeks out for a while Green could fit in nicely at 2B until Weeks is back and then Green could become a decent contact hitting utility guy.

Guzman for Lugo is such a terrible idea it's not even funny. Why would the Nats pick up a guy who's even worse on defense and not near the hitter? This is the type of deal Theo makes, Theo would just usually be the one trading FOR Lugo.

Honestly, they may have to check out his problems currently. If it's an ear infection then welcome in but if he cant handle stress than he wont make it.

I look at Joey Votto as a nice bat. I know Yonder Alonso is tearing it up and ready to be called up by the end of the year, and that really is a log jam at 1B.

Possibly Bucholz and Josh Reddick, can net Votto.

Adrian Gonzalez is a Mexican superstar playing in San Diego, imo, he's not going anywhere.

And Nick Johnson is a very good ballplayer, but he's also one of the most injury plagued guys in the big leagues. It won't take much to get him. Lugo can hit, and he can run. At second base he'd probably be an above average defender. If the Sox eat his contract, and the Nats get to plug him in for free, and can get a potential leadoff hitter who can play middle infield, without dealing away a young arm like Olsen, I think they'll make that deal. The Sox have money, and looking at the income statement from last year, the Nats like money.

I still don't think they make a major move until they've a) given Papi more chances, and b) given Lowrie a shot at retaking short.

Posted by: xethicx | June 02, 2009 at 11:43 AM

You are delusional if you believe you can get Gonzalez for what you suggest. Where is the great value in Anderson? He is doing poorly in AA. Hagadone why would anyone want him coming off TJ without having pitched? Let alone Green who is worthless.

The Red Sox are in big trouble if Lester continues giving up hits 2 more per 9 this year and his pitches per innings is also up 2 over last year.

Strasburg can't be traded for one year.

Lugo is open to playing second base. And he might be a player there. Don't discount that. The Sox can't try that because they have Pedroia. Having more time to field the ball and less of a distance for the throw makes a HUGE difference and takes a lot of pressure off. I think a lot of Lugo's problem is the jitters. He seems to flinch a bit sometimes when he's fielding or throwing the ball. Put him at second in a town that's a little more laid back and he might be a good player. And if the Sox eat his contract then someone can try out that idea for free. There's value in that. The guy can steal 30 bases, and he can hit. Just because we're sour on him now doesn't mean that it couldn't work out in a different situation for him.

agreed.

Lugo has minimal value to SD or Washington.

his contract is too big and his skill set is too minimal.

unless the Sox eat the whole contract, which I am sure they dont want to do, considering their own SS situation, this wont happen.

keep in mind, washington has dead contracts in Dmitri Young and Ronnie Belliard. Austin Kearns and Lugo are making about equal money, if im not mistaken...and even the Nats wouldnt make that swap i dont think.

according to you:::

The Reds won't trade Votto.

They'd be smart to have him play the OF eventually if Alonso is really legit.

Votto is a stud. Too much to give up for a team playing in a hitters park...Buchholz hasnt done much to prove he can handle the MLB consistently when a scouting report is out there on him.

Really than why are most people trying to get him if he hasnt proven anything.

They have Arroyo, Volquez(DL), Cueto and Owings, they definately could not use a #2-3 starter in that rotation. They could not use a promising closer, to take over for Cordero. They definately have the farm system for their entire starting roster.

I guess if you were Reds GM, you would say no to Bucholz, Bard, Reddick and Fife? Wow

What about Nick Green? Touchable?

Fact: Its spelled Wieters.

Has to be close to dead last in +/- as well. -4, ranked 33rd.

FPCT? yeah, he's 6th from the bottom in that too.

how are buchholz and homer bailey different?

agreed you are right- their trade chips are not enough. They have a combined farm system ranking of #6 in MLB, but just don't have enough for a 2nd year first baseman.....

Just move on, this guy isn't even top 5 in MLB at the position.

Now if you said they dont have enough for Matt Weiters or David Price then possibly, but not Joey Votto.....

the Johnathan:

So first base isnt a premium position? Then explain to me why...

Mark Teixeira, Jason Giambi, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, Justin Morneau, Carlos Delgado, Kevin Youkilis, Carlos Pena, Lyle Overbay, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, Albert Pujols, Derek Lee, Todd Helton, Lance Berkman and others

.. are all making so much money and loved so much by fans?

Explain to me why most teams have a superstar and franchise type player playing first base? And why so many teams throughout history have had superstars at first base?

In my opinion, Votto is untouchable because the Reds arent in as much of a rebuild anymore and he is one of the major pieces of their puzzle.

He plays an amazing 1st base however Alonzo isnt as versatile as Votto and thus would have to stay at 1B because trading either of them when one of them has the defensive talents and physical abilities to play other positions would be silly.

Votto is not on the block and is in plain fact of the matter as close to untouchable as it gets.

Being a realistic Red Sox fan (is that an oxymoron these days?)Penny and Lugo aren't really worth much. In fact in Lugos case I'd see him more as a negative value given his contract.

I think the only way Lugo is not in a Sox uniform come August is if they put him on Waivers; but even if Lugo was on waivers I doubt a team would want his salary.

In the case of Penny I actually think his best value lies with his low budget contract which means a non-contending team could use his services to help them finish out the year without having to call up a prospect before they felt the prospect was ready. (and by ready, I mean they don't want waste the minor league option and/or start the arbitration/free agency clock on the prospect yet since they know they won't compete this year anyways)

That to me leaves the Nationals (and Orioles). Both have some solid pitching prospects but neither wants to promote these kids too soon just because their rotations are only 3 deep at the moment.

SO....I think the 1 guy the Sox could reasonably get is......Christian Guzman.

Considering Guzman is owed $8 million in 2010 still and the Nats have some depth at SS/2B already its a win win for the Nats. They clear a big contract, keep a minor leaguer down, and actually field a better rotation then currently.

It works for the Sox since Guzman would theoretically be an upgrade over Lugo. (Only tough issue is Lugo + Guzman would be a lot of money - but perhaps at that point Lugo is Waived and the Sox just cross their fingers someone picks him up.

"how are buchholz and homer bailey different?"

LOL

"Votto isn't going anywhere. I really want to know what's going on with his "stress" issues though."

From first-hand experience, problems with dizzy spells can become exacerbated by going from illness related to mental. Basically, you can think/stress yourself into a dizzy spell beyond those that are caused by the medical issue alone. (Mine was severe sinus issues, Votto's has been said to be an ear infection, both can affect equilibrium.) Obviously I have no idea if this is whats going on with Votto, but it could explain how the explanation has gone from ear infection to stress.

(And that's my completely non-sarcastic post for the year.)

"the Johnathan:

So first base isnt a premium position? Then explain to me why...

Mark Teixeira, Jason Giambi, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, Justin Morneau, Carlos Delgado, Kevin Youkilis, Carlos Pena, Lyle Overbay, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, Albert Pujols, Derek Lee, Todd Helton, Lance Berkman and others

.. are all making so much money and loved so much by fans?

Explain to me why most teams have a superstar and franchise type player playing first base? And why so many teams throughout history have had superstars at first base?

In my opinion, Votto is untouchable because the Reds arent in as much of a rebuild anymore and he is one of the major pieces of their puzzle.

He plays an amazing 1st base however Alonzo isnt as versatile as Votto and thus would have to stay at 1B because trading either of them when one of them has the defensive talents and physical abilities to play other positions would be silly.

Votto is not on the block and is in plain fact of the matter as close to untouchable as it gets."

You just explained it yourself. The fact that there are so many great offensive first baseman in the league, and not very many CF's, SS's, C's, 2B (although this is a good time for 2B) is exactly why 1B isn't a premium position. There are lots of sluggers who play first base. There are plenty more amateurs on the way who will end up slugging first baseman. They are just not nearly as valuable as the guys who play the middle of the field who can hit.

Edgar Renteria hit 276/335/385 and committed 30 errors for us in 2005.

Lugo is hitting 276/345/368 and has made 4 errors, which in 20 games prorates to 30 over the course of a full season.

And we got Andy Marte, who we spun off to get Coco Crisp.

Renteria had value. Lugo has value. Especially at second base, and especially if the Red Sox agree to pay most of his salary this and next year, which they are in the financial position to do. Renteria was a #2 hitter. Lugo can bat leadoff and steal 30 bases. He has value.

The Sox aren't making any major deals until they figure out what they really have with Papi, Smoltz, Penny, Lowrie, et al. Nothing big is getting done until the trade deadline nears. Anything else is just a pipe dream. If there's a deal before mid-July, it'll be a minor one- like moving a Lugo or getting a Nick Johnson.

Look, you have your viewpoint, I have mine. I have defended mine with stats, you've resorted to caveman "my opinion is better than yours because I say so, so shut up and go home" logic.

The fact of the matter is that time will tell what Lugo's value is. And when that time comes, I hope you have the good grace to come back on these boards and say that you were wrong. I would, but if we got Marte for Renteria (and eating his contract), then we're getting something for Lugo (as long as we eat his contract). And when Lowrie comes back, he's the logical guy to get traded.

Renteria had value. Lugo has value. Especially at second base, and especially if the Red Sox agree to pay most of his salary this and next year, which they are in the financial position to do. Renteria was a #2 hitter. Lugo can bat leadoff and steal 30 bases. He has value.

You must not be watching the same games I am then that Lugo is playing in this year then. Lugo looks like he can't move 3 steps to either his left, or right at SS and STILL can't make a throw from the SS position without bouncing it to 1B and has barely Lowell speed on the basepaths also. Just how the Sox could con any team to pay 1 dime of his salary, much less trade him for any other equally bad contract is beyond me. At least Nick Green can hit with the same lousy glove.

Sox are better off just waiting another 3 weeks for Lowrie to come back at SS. He can cover the same ground and is steady as a rock at SS and should be able to hit in the .270 range with gap power from both sides of the plate and release the hapless Lugo finally. After all, at least Rent-a-wreck could still move when the Sox moved him and he could hit, an awful lot more than than Lugo.

Forget Johnson from Washington and it's past time for waiting on ortiz to get his swing back. These last dozen or so games struggling to get 5 runs or less and his leaving 6+ runners on base are getting old fast. Make a move on Adam Dunn from Washington as both protection for the DH now, as well as on Bay not coming back as a FA next season if that does not work out, he can also play 1B (in a brutal way) in an emergency and he is signed cheaply at 2/20m through next season.

If the Sox could get Dunn for say, MDC and Doubront, it would be a steal

Maybe they could package Lugo (who has value!) and Green and pick up a prospect even better than Marte was then flip that prospect (along with Kotteras, I guess, to keep the parallel going) for a player even better than Crisp.

Why would Bay sign for 3Y/$37.5MM or 4Y/$50MM?

It's Land of the Idiots here when it comes to Lugo.

Okay, if you want stats, here is what Lugo has done since coming to Boston to be our everyday SS

252 out of a possible 376 games played (67% - not good value)

226 hits in 907 at bats for a .249 average (not good value)

10 HRs in 1021 plate appearances (not good value)

Our "leadoff" guy and 107 runs to show for it (not good value)

a .346 slugging percentage (not good value)

and a .659 OPS (not good value)

These are bad numbers for someone making the league minimum, nevermind a $9 million dollar per year player.

In the field, he has had a negative UZR rating the last two years. Enough said.

The guy brings nothing to the table. Nothing.

Because a) that might very well be the going rate as the economy continues to crater, GM employees lose jobs, the people who work for the companies in their supply chains lose jobs etc. and b) he might want to sign before the Sox get all hot and steamy over Matt Holliday again. If we sign Holliday and lose Bay, we lose a 1st rounder but gain a 1st rounder and a sandwich pick.

Maybe Bay likes it in Boston. And maybe he knows that Theo has lusted after Holliday... If I were playing LF in Fenway and batting 4th or 5th in the Sox lineup I'd jump at the chance for that kind of money. And I'd be aware of contenders to my LF throne. He's in a good situation in Boston.

Whether your willing to give him the benefit of the doubt is meaningless, the stats were posted and Lugo is a below average player making a ton of money. You say he has value at 2nd but Orlando Hudson had trouble getting a job for 5 million and hes about 100 times the player Lugo is. A team would be better off signing Mark Grudz then giving up a gatorade machine for Lugo.

As for Bay the guy is having a great season in a big market, hitting a ton of homeruns and coming through in pressure situations. You think hes gonna settle for a 3 year deal at 12? You bring up the Sox going after Holliday to put pressure on him as a negative, i dont see it that way cause then id almost guarantee that the yankees would turn around and offer Bay the same deal Damon got. which id much rather then Holliday/Boras and their ridiculous demands

"Maybe they could package Lugo (who has value!) and Green and pick up a prospect even better than Marte was then flip that prospect (along with Kotteras, I guess, to keep the parallel going) for a player even better than Crisp."

"Define "unstopable"."

Rofl. You make the comments section very enjoyable.

"Why would Bay sign for 3Y/$37.5MM or 4Y/$50MM?"

What about 4/50 and some stolen laptops courtesy of Buchholz?

No team is going to take on Lugo giving him the benefit of the doubt and hoping he might magically not suck at 2B in a small market city. The position that he has any value at all is totally indefensible. He has negative runs above replacement so far this season - the very definition of negative value - and his last few seasons provide no hope of improvement. Every team has a AAA player that the can call up who will provide similar performance and won't cost 9M/yr. The only way we're getting him off this team is if we eat 100% of his salary. Business-wise, you could make the argument that we should just straight-out release him since he is a counterproductive asset that detracts from the team. Better players have been released from less wealthy teams.
Oh, and he didn't "help" us to a championship in 2007, he was just along for the ride.

First, Lugo has no value. Second, Votto being traded. And third and most importantly, why are'nt people talking about the most sensible trade out there for 2 teams, BRAD PENNY FOR JIM THOME! Boston pays Thome's remaining 9 million while Chicago only has to pay Penny 3 million. This fills both teams needs with 2 players who are FA after the season! Quentin comes back and takes over DH in Chicago while Big Papi steps aside,sadly, in Boston.

REDSOXDYNASTY: No one is talking about Thome because the White Sox are 3.5 games out and he has far far more value to the White Sox than Brad Penny as a 5th mediocre starter.

I've said it before and will say it again. Penny's greatest value is to a team like the Nationals or Orioles who do not want to have to call on a minor leaguer before they are ready just to fill out their rotation for the remainder of the year.

The Nationals have 3 guys in their rotation currently and while they have some nice prospects they would be foolish to start the arbitration/free agency clock on a prospect while simultaneously running the risk they called them up before they were ready and they get rocked. The Nats will not compete this year so there is no reason to cut into the long term value of these guys.

With that said:

Christian Guzman is owed $8million next year and the Nats have 2 capable backup SS already.

Josh Willingham is owed about the same cash as Brad Penny and is in a very crowded OF.

Both of these players are expendable to the Nats and Penny offers the Nats better "value" then both of them right now simply from the point of view of the cost savings of being able to keep a minor leaguer pitcher down until September.

Sadly, the Nats rotation would actually be better with Penny; which is tough to say for virtually any contending team out there.

Penny for Willingham is reasonable; Penny for Christian Guzman with the Sox taking on all Guzmans salary is very reasonable. Sox dealing Penny + a mid tier prospect for Willingham/Guzman with Sox eating all Guzman's salary is even an outside chance given the Strausburg situation*

Penny for any player on a contending team that could help the Red Sox this year is a pipe dream.

*to sign Strausburg, the Nats are going to need to free up some salary to give him his signing bonus.

soxfan, remember the no drinking before 5 pm rule before posting. Kangarooboxer, so the nats and o's are better off trading prospects to protect their prospects? Thats called backwards logic and everyone here who thinks Penny will not pull in a decent prospect or player from a contending team come July 31 know nothing about baseball and how a team needs to do whatever is necessary to make the playoffs and, if anything, will overpay for it!

The redsox should do this, trade Clay Bucholz and Micheal Bowden for Victor Martinez and then go after a shortstop like Stephen Drew or Jack Wilson and trade Julio Lugo and maybe some cash considerations to even the deal and then the lineup would be: 1. Ellsbury,2 Pedroia,3 Martinez,4 Bay, 5 Youkkkk,6 Lowell,7. Drew,8. Varitek,9. Wilson