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Indians DFA Matt Herges
Dennis Manoloff of The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Indians designated veteran reliever Matt Herges for assignment following tonight's game. The move freed up a roster spot for the recently acquired Winston Abreu.
Herges had been effective for the Tribe, pitching to a 3.55 ERA in 25.1 innings, allowing fewer hits than innings pitched.
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Fun fact of the day: Matt Herges is the only player to pitch for an entire division.
Posted by: jdub | July 03, 2009 at 10:59 PM
The Tribe sure does love rummaging the major league scrap heap this year.
Posted by: not sure | July 03, 2009 at 10:59 PM
He was the best reliever in the pen. Apparently they have fully moved towards "who cares about winning this season" mode.
Posted by: the lowercase zach is better | July 03, 2009 at 10:59 PM
This move makes no sense. He would be a good pick up for a team that needs bullpen help. His walk rate of 0.237/IP is pretty darn good and he has a whip of 1.18.
Posted by: Jeff Levy | July 03, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Stupid, on early looks. Research later, for FIP, ERA+, and BABIP.
Seems like a fit for the Dodgers, Phils, Mets, or St. Louis. I'm thinking LA.
Who's next, Wood?
Posted by: UnbiasedYankee | July 03, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Cleveland must have thought that getting rid of the best arm in their bullpen this year was a good idea...I can't see any other reasons for this move
Posted by: MDWhiteSoxFan | July 03, 2009 at 11:14 PM
Here we are with the stats I said I'd get for y'all.
.282 BABIP (.312 career), 3.86 FIP, an even 3.0 K/BB, 126 ERA+, and 1.184 WHIP . Good stuff. He has actually improved coming to the AL, which I think is very hard to do if you're coming from the NL (especially the NL West), even if it is Colorado as your former team.
Where do I sign up for the Cleveland GM job? Mark Shapiro is looking really dumb right now. After all, this SHOULD be Meloan being called up, if someone was to be called up.
Posted by: UnbiasedYankee | July 03, 2009 at 11:29 PM
The Indians admitted they were done this year when they traded DeRosa. Considering there was no trade market for Herges, makes sense to let him go. Actually surpised it took this long to do it, thought they would do it last week when they activated Chris Perez.
Herges started off really well but has been hit VERY HARD lately. ERA was under 1.00 for a good while and has risen all the way over 3 and been close to 4.
He was a good guy to have for a lil while, but nothing special.
Think it's funny everyone thinks this is a dumb move....especially after NO TEAM gave him Herges a major league deal this winter. He was in the minors and not on the roster for almost 2 months. The guy is old and has little left in that arm of his. Was getting by on guts alone and that has caught up to him lately.
If someone else wants him fine, they could have had him all winter for nothing but no GM wanted him. Won't help a playoff team down the stretch, but a team in need of a filler? yeah he'd help there.
And UnbiasedYankee....you do realize Meloan was traded right? And that he was TERRIBLE in the minors? He doesn't deserve to be called up for any team, period.
Posted by: Hermie13 | July 04, 2009 at 12:34 AM
This really doesn't make any sense. Herges has been solid. He'd be a great fit for any playoff aspiring team with a need in the pen. Hope the Dodgers pick him up!
Posted by: VisionsofSilver | July 04, 2009 at 12:44 AM
Detroit needs to give him a shot.
Posted by: Calriver | July 04, 2009 at 01:15 AM
What the heck? Someone should give Shapiro a drug test, soon.
Although none of the moves are major, you don’t trade an unlucky BP arm with a future and release one of the better BP arms you have on your club just to bring in a BP arm that has had success almost solely because of extreme lucky at AAA. Plus, the team keeps saying it needs BP arms, so the release one of the strongest ones they have? Seriously, what is he thinking?
BTW, don’t give me that “hit VERY HARD lately” stuff. His ERA took a hit mainly because of one game, and it was bound to happen since he was sporting such a low BAbip at the time. Now everything has leveled out, and baring injury, something around these stat levels are probably the pitcher you can expect going forward. This is backed up when you consider his percentages pretty much match his career lines outside a higher HR% this season.
Herges had the best WHIP on the club (1.18, next best is Sipp at 1.37). He also had the third best K/BB rate (to Pavano and Lee), 5th lowest BB rate, and third highest stranded rate (to Sipp and Lee) of pitchers with more then a single inning under their belt. This just seems foolish.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 04, 2009 at 01:43 AM
The Matt Herges bubble had burst...... a 39-year old journeyman was bound to come back down to earth at some point.
His ERA wasn't mainly affected by one game as suggested earlier.... in his last 8 games he'd allowed 16 hits in 6.2IP.... his ERA was 10.80 and his WHIP was 2.70..... the fact that anyone can have any angst about cutting a 39-year old retread who was showing signs of him falling apart is laughable frankly.
Posted by: dazzler | July 04, 2009 at 07:32 AM
The Indians didn't need Herge's roster spot to add Winston Abreu but they decided to clear another space anyway. I smell a deal coming soon.
And, yes, Herges had really been stinking it up lately.
Posted by: MickS | July 04, 2009 at 07:49 AM
Dazzler has it right. If you rely on stats to analyze a move, you have to at least look at early stats vs. late stats.
Herges fooled people for a while, but lately he has pitched like what he is, another retread off the scrapheap.
And he certainly didn't figure to be a 40-year-old in the Tribe's 2010 bullpen.
Mike
Posted by: chitownmike | July 04, 2009 at 08:14 AM
Dazzler has it right. If you rely on stats to analyze a move, you have to at least look at early stats vs. late stats.
Herges fooled people for a while, but lately he has pitched like what he is, another retread off the scrapheap.
And he certainly didn't figure to be a 40-year-old in the Tribe's 2010 bullpen.
Mike
Posted by: chitownmike | July 04, 2009 at 08:14 AM
Fun fact of the day: Matt Herges is the only player to pitch for an entire division.
Posted by: jdub | July 03, 2009 at 10:59 PM
true...and Steve Finley is the only other player to play for every team in a division (also the NL West)
Posted by: Boswa73 | July 04, 2009 at 08:59 AM
"Although none of the moves are major, you don’t trade an unlucky BP arm with a future and release one of the better BP arms you have on your club just to bring in a BP arm that has had success almost solely because of extreme lucky at AAA. Plus, the team keeps saying it needs BP arms, so the release one of the strongest ones they have? Seriously, what is he thinking?"
Totally agree with all of this. It was easier just acknowledging yours than retyping it out in my own phrasing.
Giving up Meloan for Abreu made no sense, and letting go Herges, in spite of his 3.87 FIP thanks to only 6 walks and 3 homers allowed in 25.1 innings, in order to find Abreu a spot seems awfully questionable as well.
I guess maybe they're trying to find guys that they want for next year or whatever, but then why give up on Meloan?
They're 13 games back in the division, and even farther from the wild card.
They're out of this thing, but they have a lot of good pieces in Martinez, LaPorta, Hafner, Cabrera, Shoppach, Peralta, Choo, Sizemore (of course), Lee, Perez, Wood, and others. This team can get good again really quick, but I think that moving Carl Pavano for a prospect or two, as well as Cliff Lee and/or Victor Martinez for some high upside young pitchers if they can, is something that they really need to do, because Carmona, Sowers, Laffey, Huff, Reyes, and Jackson really just don't cut it.
Posted by: scribbletone | July 04, 2009 at 11:44 AM
“His ERA wasn't mainly affected by one game as suggested earlier....”
Remove the 3 run game and he sits at a 2.52 ERA and 1.08 WHIP. (instead of 3.55 and 1.184) Yes, his ERA and WHIP were dramatically affected by that one game, as I originally said.
“If you rely on stats to analyze a move, you have to at least look at early stats vs. late stats.”
His early stats had an unsustainably low BAbip. He was bound to give up more hits, and in turn, more runs at some point to even it out at a realistic point. It is now evened out.
And if you all think Herges is bad, wait to you see Abreu. Who I might add, also doesn’t figure to be “in the Tribe's 2010 bullpen” unless they resign him as a FA.
As said, one solid producing BP arm and one solid BP arm with some future both gone for one relying on nothing but luck in AAA. That’s the laughable aspect here.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 04, 2009 at 12:00 PM
"Remove the 3 run game and he sits at a 2.52 ERA and 1.08 WHIP. (instead of 3.55 and 1.184) Yes, his ERA and WHIP were dramatically affected by that one game, as I originally said."
The 3 run game? I'd say all these very recent performances had a pretty good affect on his ERA and WHIP
06/15 - 0IP, 2ER
06/17 - 1.1IP, 2ER
06/23 - 0.1IP, 3ER
06/25 - 0IP, 1ER
If you want to believe that he's not had more than one bad outing, if you want to believe he hasn't allowed 16 hits over his last 6.2IP and if you want to believe that he hasn't allowed 10 out of 19 inherited runners to score, well OK...... fact is, all those things are completely wrong.
"His early stats had an unsustainably low BAbip. He was bound to give up more hits, and in turn, more runs at some point to even it out at a realistic point. It is now evened out. "
Really? You do realise that is complete nonsense right?
You're saying his overall numbers are more reflective of how he's pitching than his numbers from the last two weeks?
You think that he's suddenly going to flick a switch and because his numbers have now "evened out" he's going to revert from being the 10.80ERA, 2.70WHIP pitcher he's been over the last two weeks to being a 3.55ERA, 1.18WHIP pitcher??
I'm afraid you're statistical "analysis" is extremely flawed.
Posted by: dazzler | July 04, 2009 at 12:24 PM
OMG, are you the kind of person that looks out their window, sees rain, and starts yelling and screaming in the street the end of the world is coming?
Yes, when you are extremely lucky for a period of time, your luck will run out, and most likely reverse itself for a short while. Herges, right now, is sitting with a normal BAbip and rates well within range of his normal. If you think he just is some horrible pitcher you should release for a 4A BP guy getting lucking in AAA because Herges gave up runs in 4 out of his 15 outings this month after giving up runs in 2 of 10 in the first month, well then maybe you are following the wrong game.
Herges has been the single best pitcher on your club outside of Cliff Lee. He has watched his hit rate increase lately because it had too, it had to get high after it was so low for the first month. Will it continue to be this high? Extremely unlikely, it sure didnt stay that low, did it???
And the bottom line is the Indians traded a solid middle-relief prospect and released their second best pitcher to this point to bring in a 4A BP arm experiencing lucky beyond imagination. If you think that is a good move, well then you might want to think of becoming a Nationals fans - you will beyond love all the moves they make in their eternal search for a last place team.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 04, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Did I say a single thing about trading Meloan? Nope
I said DFA'ing a 39-year old middle reliever who was showing that his bubble had burst wasn't an issue and any angst over this move (releasing Herges) was unwarranted.
Where I take issue with your analysis is your idea that (in your words) Herges "is now evened out".
So, you say his numbers have evened out and it makes it the case?
Hey, if you believe in the idea of "evening out" at least provide some logical explanation of how you possibly came to the conclusion that a 39-year old has "evened out" at numbers better than his career averages?!
Or, better yet, surely a full season in 2008 would be a better indicator of where this 39-year old might "even out" to..... you know, the season in where he had a 5.04ERA and a 1.60WHIP.
If you believe in the "evening out" theory there's a whole lot more bad appearances than good coming from Herges if he's going to even his numbers out.
Posted by: dazzler | July 04, 2009 at 01:01 PM
Ok, let us try this again
“Or, better yet, surely a full season in 2008 would be a better indicator of where this 39-year old might "even out" to..... you know, the season in where he had a 5.04ERA and a 1.60WHIP.”
His ERA should have been about 4.06 based off his rates last season. Just like his FIP has been in the 3.75-4.25 range for the last 3 years while his real ERA sits, not surprising, at 4.03 over that time. Obviously, there is a little more to this whole stat thing then you want to believe.
His stats say his ERA is where it should be, and he is within reason of the production he has produced the last couple years. Over the rest of the season, it is extremely likely he would be allowing about a hit an inning with a walk every 3rd inning or so – better then anyone else you have had to this point. His production over an extended amount of time just points to that being the case. His lucky first month then unlucky 2nd month, not surprisingly, left him with an end result of the same thing.
People point to stats because they are right. It is near impossible to buck a trend, or beat the numbers. The numbers say he has, and would continue to be your best reliever, regardless of a couple bad games of late during his unlucky stretch. The numbers on Abreu point to questions, he hasn’t shown anything outside of an ability to overpower inferior minor league hitters while being hit hard by major league talents. His numbers in the majors now are a crapshoot, but most likely will be high as he has shown that “hit hard by major league talents” aspect.
To remove a young BP arm in Meloan for him is questionable enough. To also cut Herges is the icing on this illogical cake.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 04, 2009 at 01:44 PM
Yeah, I realized that Meloan got traded. That was my point. Since Shapiro was dumb enough to DFA Herges, the reliever called up should have have been Meloan, who should have never been traded to begin with, rather than Abreu.
SuzysMan is explaining this well enough, much better than I, and shares my viewpoint. Thank you.
Posted by: UnbiasedYankee | July 04, 2009 at 09:12 PM