Odds & Ends: Escobar, Peavy, Mets, Cardinals

"Scott Lauber of The News Journal notes that the Phillies promoted one of their best prospects, outfielder Michael Taylor, to Triple-A"

I oh so would have liked to have seen him in an outfield with Berry and Brown at some point. Congrats to Michael. Now the expected progression (assuming he's not traded) is to spend next year in AAA and then a callup in 2011 unless he forces their hand sooner with his play although the talk of 3 outfielders as all-stars was a bit overblown there. If Charlie's not the manager they get one all star outfielder. If he hits .310 with 30HR's and 100+RBI's next year with solid plate discipline and good speed it'll be hard to keep him out of CBP.

So your saying he will be back in around four years or so? Haha, seriousley though Bowman is right, Yunel isn't going anywhere. The Braves need stop-gap players to keep them competitive and hopefully contenders until 2011 when there top prospects will hopefully begin their reign. You don't trade the 6th best SS in the league who is only 26 and cost controlled for four more years. Before you say that statement is completely bias, he is 6th in OPS, top five among all players in with bating average with RISP, and plays very solid defense with an unprecedented arm. He looks as of late he has gotten his head on straight and realized every umpire is not out to get him. You don't trade a guy like that for a rental.

"If Charlie's not the manager they get one all star outfielder."

Umm no, victorino was a final vote pick. That has NOTHING to do with Charlie

Posted by: Mickey Mac | July 16, 2009 at 09:30 PM

technically you're right, but honestly Kemp's having a better year than Vic. if it was just on whose having a better year it would have been Kemp.

How is Justin Upton still considered a prospect? He's not even a rookie anymore.

As far as Holliday is concerned, it looks like alot of people were fooled once again by the thin Colorado air.
I am convinced that in Colorado, they still use non-humidor balls depending on the pitching matchups. So you can't predict when a high scoring game is coming, but if an ace pitcher is pitching against them I bet my life that they use non-humidor balls for that game.
Why hasn't anyone picked up on this?

As a KC fan I want to know if we have a shot at Taylor. Philly still needs SP even with Pedro, so can we go straight up for Bannister?

I would only trade escobar for Adrian Gonzalez. Both are good players and under control for next few years.

I wish the Cardinals release Wellemeyer now. He can not go 5 innings per start.

having AGon is not as short-sighted as when many fans wanted to sign Tex to multi-year deal.

^^Actually it pretty much is, it's going to take just as much and the braves can't nearly afford that kind of deal now. Texeira actually had some ties to atlanta (he went to college there and his wife was born in the nearby area) and an extension seemed very possible at the time. Braves actually could have afforded to re-sign Tex at the amount the Yanks gave him, all we'd be missing is Kotchman, Lowe, Anderson, and David Ross

YES!! Lowe who has been dependable(except for recent stretc) and Ross(where would we be without him) held down catcher while mac was on DL. Nothing against clint sammons.

If Escobar is traded, it better not be anything less than 2-3 top 10 prospects, plus more. Who cares about Peavy, he has much value as maybe Francoeur, maybe a little more. The Mets need bats and pitchers, and are not willing to part with there future, so don't see Mets competing this year. Maybe it's time for Wellemeyer to not have a job? Has anyone ever seen Harper hit with a wooden bat? If not, Callis should get his eyes checked. Anyone that would take Harper over Upton is beyond dumb. By the way, whoever started the Gonzalez to the Braves nonsense, please log off and never log on again. Like bravesfan pointed out, Gonzalez is not worth our future for a 1B for two more seasons, when we have Freeman within two years. Why are people arguing about Victorino and Kemp, when neither of them are mentioned on this entry?

Yunel Escobar, Jo J0 Reyes and Kelly Johnson for Adrian Gonzalez.

Derek Lowe, Mike Gonzalez and Casey Kotchman to Texas for Nelson Cruz

The Braves would save some money to resign Soriano and still have plenty of pitching. They wouldn't need much power from ss then. When Hayward and Freeman get here then we can cross that bridge.

Matt Holliday carrer:

First half: .315 .382 .517

Second half: .314 .388 .568

He was a product of Coors field. He's not going to do much more in the second half than he did in the first. He's and average outfielder outside of Coors field. How many times does that have to be said?

When Infante comes back Braves need to move Chipper to 1st and trade Kotchman to someone for a reliever. He will be gone middle of next year anyway. Chipper has really struggled defensively and he could move back to 3B next year. Play Prado at 3B, who leads the team in slugging by the way, and Infante and Conrad at 2B. It would be an out-side the box semi-solution for the INF.

I'm sorry but Holliday has been a 2 WAR player so far this year and everybody's favorite jason bay has also been a 2 WAR player. So which one is overrated? Put Holliday in a neutral park (like turner field) and he is a well above average outfielder. Once again he's not a star but a 5-5.5 WAR player is worth quite a bit

Wayyyyyyyyyyy too much for Cruz, and nobody wants KJ or JOJO. Mike gonzalez and a prospect or 2 for Cruz, maybe. But no untouchables of course. And did u read the article? Esco not goin anywhere unless we r blown away, thats far from blown away!

Posted by: T_Rav | July 16, 2009 at 10:36 PM

I think you're mixed up. Yunel for A-Gon would be a heck of a deal for ATL, not SD. As for the TX deal, why would they want lowe's contract as the centerpiece of a deal for a young, cheap, controllable 40 HR hitter who plays above average defense.

Ok bravoboy, that just makes us worse offensively which is where we need HELP. And I don't see a reason not to trade for Agon if we could, his contract will be up about the same time freeman is ready

Posted by: WS2009 | July 16, 2009 at 10:41 PM

Because you're going to give up guys like Escobar and prospects who could contribute from 2011 and beyond, we likely won't win a championship this year or next so why sacrifice the future

Yeah, both would be good deals for ATL.

Technically, he is only cost-controlled for one more year. After that he is eligible for arbitration, and the cost-controlling stops unless Wren steps in and offers one of those multi-year deals to buy out his years. Either way, he stops being cheap...

Posted by: notin | July 16, 2009 at 10:43 PM

arbitration is cost controlled, its still well below market value, hence cheap

T Rav, the reason your trade idea for Cruz wouldn't work is because the Rangers are easily still in the race, Cruz is probably their 2nd best hitter behind Hamilton, and since he's been hurt a lot, they REALLY need Cruz, no way they give him up for a setup guy and some prospects, if anything, they'd want Vazquez, but that would hurt them too badly to lose Cruz, since we can't give them anyone to replace him in the order. Won't happen, think about other team's needs and stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

I think ur retarted! I didnt say yunel straight up for Agon was not in the braves favor, but add two ML ready players and its not overwhelming at all. And i never said Lowe to Texas, I said Gonzo and a prospect or 2, texas would also get 2 draft picks if they didnt sign gonzo in offseason... And u have to ask urself what good have the braves done with Agon/ Esco swap? Diory Hernandez now becomes our starting SS so what u made up for with Agon on offense you give back at SS. Its not overwhelming and the braves are as retarted as you if they trade him without being unarguably overwhelmed.

When did a 4.39 ERA pitcher in the National league convert to a #1-#2 in the AL?

"1) 6th best out of 16 really isn't that impressive. It's barely top 40 percent."

You forgot the hundred or so who are not good enough to be starters.

Some people obviously don't know what a good trade is. And it's not just braves fans, I see it everywhere on this site. It may be foolish, but nothing to get angry about

offering arbitration to gonzalez is not risky at all. You only give up 1 pick btw. He's a solid closer and at worst a very good setup man, the reliever market is extremely weak besides him and soriano, he'll find a job elsewhere that pays

"majors" *AL

The Dbacks didn't even offer Arb to Adam Dunn and he hit 40 Homers and 100 Rbi's but you think a team will offer it to Gonzo?

Danys Baez BAL
Joaquin Benoit TEX
Rafael Betancourt * CLE
Chad Bradford BAL
Doug Brocail * HOU
Kiko Calero FLA
Octavio Dotel CWS
Ryan Franklin * STL
Gary Glover WAS
Mike Gonzalez ATL
Tom Gordon ARZ
John Grabow PIT
Kevin Gregg CHC
LaTroy Hawkins HOU
Matt Herges CLE
Trevor Hoffman MIL
Jason Isringhausen TB
Masahide Kobayashi * CLE
Brandon Lyon DET
Ron Mahay KC
Gary Majewski WAS
Trever Miller STL
Darren Oliver LAA
Troy Percival TB
J.J. Putz * NYM
Fernando Rodney DET
Duaner Sanchez NYM
Scott Schoeneweis ARZ
Rafael Soriano ATL
Matt Thornton * CWS
Jose Valverde HOU
Luis Vizcaino * COL
Billy Wagner NYM
Jamie Walker BAL

Plenty of options.

Adrian Gonzalez could be a 7-8 WAR player in a neutral park, Escobar will likely be a 3-5 WAR player for most of his career. So how is that not overwhelming again?

The Dbacks didn't even offer Arb to Adam Dunn and he hit 40 Homers and 100 Rbi's but you think a team will offer it to Gonzo?

Posted by: bkoke | July 16, 2009 at 11:11 PM

Have you seen him on defense? That's why ARZ declined to offer him arb

Sorry but, defense doesn't make up for .274 .346 .395 at first base. He's one of the worst hitting first baseman in the majors. In that cenario you would also put Byrd and Murphy on the bench which are both better hitters than Kotchman. Give it up it makes zero sense.

He's not any worse than manny defensively and Manny is making 25 million. Give me a break. Your really reaching. The guy is a guaranteed 40 homers every year. Your talking about a RELIEF pitcher. He's not a dominant closer and he's not been very good this year.

So u r saying without Esco we are only 3-5 worse than we are right now? HAHA! Thats laughable. Dont forget that Diory Hernandez is probably negative 2-5 thus making the overall trade a 3-6 WAR in ur terms, so i asl u how is that overwhelming, u cant just say yea Agon makes us 7 games better and Esco only makes us 3-5 because Agon does not replace Escobar! We are in big trouble at short with that trade! It does not help us much at all.

Posted by: T_Rav | July 16, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Once again you can make a minor move to get a jack wilson or such and Infante is back soon, you're not stuck with Diory unless you just sit there. But you do not pass up A-Gon just because you don't have a capable replacement on your team right now.

He's not any worse than manny defensively and Manny is making 25 million. Give me a break. Your really reaching. The guy is a guaranteed 40 homers every year.

I'm reaching, you just compared adam dunn to Manny. Dunn didn't even OPS .900 last year, Manny has a career OPS avg of over 1.000. And yes Dunn's defense is way worse than Manny's. Homers are nice but there is more to the game. Also who sells jerseys, tickets, and merchandise, Manny or Dunn? Final point: LA is a big market team that can afford big contracts, ARZ needs to pick and choose who they can and can't afford to keep

Not to mention Bill James categorized Dunn as having "old player skills" meaning his ability could disappear pretty quickly. His comparision- Richie Sexson. There are a ton of knocks on Dunn, yes he hits homers but doesn't do much else

Juan Cruz had a 2.61 ERA before he was a free agent. Not a good comparison.

"Closers/setup men can always find jobs"

The difference is will a team be willing to give him 4 million and give up a first or second round draft pick?

He would likely make more money accepting arbitration than teams will be willing to give him.

"Adrian Gonzalez could be a 7-8 WAR player in a neutral park, Escobar will likely be a 3-5 WAR player for most of his career. So how is that not overwhelming again? "

Dude, WAR is park adjusted. Both hold about the same WAR value.

I would point out it is much harder to find a SS like that then a 1B though.

and with that said, STOP WITH THE GONZALEZ TRADE TALK! Please! It is beyond ridiculous already.

Juan Cruz .192 BAA
Alex Gonzalez .229 BAA

The #1 job for a relief pitcher is to not give up runs so yes ERA is very important. Half way through the year Gonzalez has blown twice as many saves as Cruz did that year.

It's mostly due to the fact that Cruz doesn't get the opportunity to close but that's where Gonzalez's value lies. People in the baseball world see him as the better option to finish games than Cruz, he had 2 opportunities and blew both of them so dumb point on gonzo having blown more

But I definitely agree, Im so tired of braves fans throwing out gonzo proposals

Who started that stupid Escobar rumor in the first place?

KT was on a local San Diego sports talk station today and said that if the Padres moved Peavy, Gonzalez or Bell it would probably be during the off season since they wanted major league ready players in return and most contending teams would not be willing to part with them before they made a run at the play-offs. He also said that because Cabrera has shown that he can play at the major league level this season so the Padres would probably not be interested in Escobar.

I don’t see the Braves going after Gonzalez because they do not want to part with their high level pitching prospects and I really think that is what the Padres will be looking for.

The Giants would make a good trading partner with the Padres and I don’t think KT has any issues with trading inside the division but I’m not sure if Sebian will want to see his top prospects in different uniform for the next sis years and long after Adrian has signed with the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers.

If Gonzalez goes anywhere before the deadline it will be Boston, they need another bat and a 1B, have the money to sign Adrian long term and have and will be probably willing to part with the high level pitching prospects that the Padres covet.

I'm just saying, if you get a clear, significant upgrade you take it. Say Jack Wilson/Marco Scutaro and Adrian Gonzalez is way better than Yunel and Casey Kotchman. And I never said he was as good as Pujols, I just wanted to see how far you would go with the replacement is necessary idea. Don't twist words

Suzysman, trust me I agree with you I just think it's ridiculous that some braves fans think escobar is equal to a guy like gonzalez.

"plus you would have to unload your system to get Gonzalez" The scenario was based on a 1 for 1 esco for gonzo swap. Aslo I think they both have grown into what they are, I don't think escobar is getting any better but hopefully he'll cut down on the mental mistakes

I love how people on this board are still trying to make up these 'lavish' trades including Escobar. Prado and Escobar are our two best hitters this season, losing either is just stupid. Braves are getting a steal on him for the next four years, he is worth more than his value already.

If anyone is going to be traded it's going to Vazquez. I would say it would most likely would be someone like Dunn and prospects because his Vazquez's stock is one of the highest as of now. Someone that can play outfield and first base. I think Dunn is under a two year contract, so that would benefit the Braves very much so. Because the Braves would just stick him at first base next year and in left for the remainder of the year.

The Yankees also need pitching so they may be able to deal Swisher and prospects. (PAT VENDETTI to the Braves.)

ur too are an idiot!
Posted by: T_Rav | July 16, 2009 at 11:12 PM

I prefer this one, Max.

Offering arb to Gonzalez would be very risky. A 3.43 ERA reliever and giving up 2 high draft picks is not going to be very attractive to teams this winter.

Posted by: bkoke | July 16, 2009 at 10:57 PM

A team only gives up one draft pick for signing a Type A free agent. The team losing the Type A free agent gets the draft pick from the other team plus a supplemental sandwich round pick.

As for Gonzalez, he was doing great this year until Bobby Cox overused him. If you check his stats his ERA only went up during his last 4 games. It was discovered that he has tendinitis in his elbow and he is now out for a few days. A left handed reliever who is a power pitcher isn't easy to find. Yes, whoever has him will offer him arbitration.

I would have to think one of Hanson or Heyward would be going the other way if AG is coming to Atlanta.

AG's one of the best in the game and only making $11.5M the next 2.5 years.

And Buford Highway would have a celebration larger than Cinqo de Mayo.

Escobar is partially "cost controlled". Entering arb his salary expects to go up dramatically. And while it may not reach FA prices yet, you only need to look at players like Howard and Lincecum to realize that guys in their first year of arb can see HUGE spikes in the paycheck.

I also don't understand the Brave fans infatuation with Escobar. Just a quick comparison:

Player 1: Age 26 / 2009 - 294/356/444 line with 3 SB's - career minor league OPS of 781.
Player 2: Age 25 / 2009 - 299/338/411 line with 6 SB's - career minor league OPS of 810.

Player 2 has better defensive metrics than player 1. Player 2 was rated the best fielding shortstop in baseball by Bill James in 2008.

Player 1 is touted as a top young shortstop in the game. Player 2 gets no respect from anyone on this board. While Escobar (Player 1) is being offered straight-up for A Gonzalez, Aybar (Player 2) is considered a joke when mentioned as part of a package for Holliday.

I don't see the justification here.