Roy Halladay Rumors: Thursday

I've seen Montero in Double AA, Yankees would be smart in trading him. I am a Red Sox fan.
This kid is good.

It doesn't make any sense for the Tigers to trade Porcello for Halladay. He's going to be an ace soon and he's cost controlled for a while longer. It's too little of a short term benefit for the costs.

I can understand not wanting to trade Porcello, but I can't understand the thought that the Tigers don't "have what it takes to get it done." Porcello alone would be the best starting pitcher the Jays could hope for at this point, even more proven than Clay Buchholz. So, any deal that starts with him would be a great start. How much more would they have to add? I would think only 2 more prospects and it gets done. Porcello could step right into the Jays rotation and pitch well right away, which is more than they could say for Drabek, Wallace or any other young prospect.

The Tigers could probably get Halladay with a package of Porcello, Perry, two other names of their choice from our farm system, and cash considerations.

Madden's an idiot.

Hughes, Joba, and Montero are off limits. Anyone else can be had, but not those three.

Problem with offering Porcello, is after him, there is nothing.

"Hughes, Joba, and Montero are off limits. Anyone else can be had, but not those three."

haha i love the yankee fan that thinks the yankees can give up a couple poor prospects to obtain an ace. when dealing with halladay for any team there are no "untouchables" or there is no deal. clearly the jays are holding all the cards. if the yankees want halladay they have to at least start with montero or hughes.

oh btw i will stop waching baseball if the yankees get halladay. they are a disgrace to baseball and it just makes the lincecum and greinke stories so much better

Montero 2-2 in Eastern League All-Stars.

Joba is hurt. Everyone points to his move to the rotation as the excuse why he isn't throwing the big heater but apparently according to Joel Sherman , the Yankees have been telling him to let lose and not hold anything back, which some (like that moron Casey Stern) think he is doing.
Either way I'd deal him if his shoulder is indeed toast.
Montero is a luxury and he isn't going to be a catcher anyways when he gets to the bigs... with Tex blocking him I'd deal him as well... his value has never been higher.

"Madden's an idiot.

Hughes, Joba, and Montero are off limits. Anyone else can be had, but not those three."

LOL Pot meet kettle. Typical Yankee fan ignorance. Montero may be one of the most overhyped prospects in baseball. Most analysts don't think he'll even be a big league catcher. Also, Joba is struggling and hurt. Finally, if you think you can get 1.5 years of the best pitcher in baseball while having a list of untouchables and dealing low level prospects - then you sir are the idiot. Hughes/Joba and Montero/Jackson otherwise JP hangs up on the phone on Cashman (and rightfully so given what the Cards and Phils will offer).

LOL Pot meet kettle. Typical Yankee fan ignorance. Montero may be one of the most overhyped prospects in baseball. Most analysts don't think he'll even be a big league catcher. Also, Joba is struggling and hurt. Finally, if you think you can get 1.5 years of the best pitcher in baseball while having a list of untouchables and dealing low level prospects - then you sir are the idiot. Hughes/Joba and Montero/Jackson otherwise JP hangs up on the phone on Cashman (and rightfully so given what the Cards and Phils will offer

-Pete you have No idea what your talking about . .GO look at Monteros numbers ! .. He Crushing the ball in AA . He may not project to be an everyday "catcher" but the kid can flat out HIT . Yes Joba is struggling a little bit but he's NOT hurt .

I think the Yanks combination of Hughes . Jackson and Montero plus another player is right up there if not better than other teams. Don't hate just because we are the Yankees

I can recall when the yankees signed montero in the ny daily news a baseball scout refered to him as the best venezuelan hitting prospect since miguel cabrera. I would love to see him and joba stay because joba is going to replace mo and montero looks like the real deal. Let us not forget how good the santana deal has worked out for the mets and in some circumstances you have to pull the trigger on a deal like this. If a package of romine, hughes, and jackson doesnt work then they should drop out of the race for doc

I would trade any pitcher other than the trio of Verlander, Jackson, and Porcello to get Halladay, and there is no prospect in the Tiger organization that's off limits. The Jays want Cale Iorg- SOLD! Galarraga won 13 games as a rookie in '08- DONE! Figaro, French, Marte? Some combination of three or four of these guys is as good as a package with Kyle Kendrick (I'd rather have Howie Kendrick) or Brandon Wood.

People throwing these trade proposals out need to keep in mind that addition to 1.5 years of a Cy Young-caliber pitcher, the Blue Jays are essentially trading away their compensatory draft picks for losing a Type A pitcher. You're going to have to pay for both in any trade.

"One exec told Jon Heyman of SI.com that he would trade Joba Chamberlain for Halladay, but wouldn't give Rick Porcello up for him."

I'll just say/caution notice he said an "EXEC" not "scout" would trade him. To me there is a big difference in that.

The problem with Montero is he's pretty bad behind the plate; he's too slow to play OF and 1b is kinda occupied.

The Yanks are hoping he can improve his D as it's not remotely close to MLB-quality right now, but it's looking like he'll end up as a DH.

"heard from a Phillies source who says Halladay's $14.25MM salary is nothing"

sounds just like the Yankees

I predict at LEAST two blockbusters by the all-star break:

Roy Halladay traded to the Phillies (and they fork over their top prospects)
Adrian Gonzalez gets traded to the Red Sox (Buchholz goes, but not much else, and the Towers-Epstein connection strikes again).
Matt Holliday gets traded to the Cardinals to help protect Albert Pujols

Some lesser names will also move:

Sherrill, Huff, and Ty Wigs are all out in Baltimore.
Meche is traded out of Kansas City to the Mets
Doug Davis goes back to the Brewers

and MANY more.

Posted by: aclbosox | July 16, 2009 at 12:00 PM

are you serious? Why would the Padres do that? for just Bucholz who outside of a no hitter hasn't done anything on the ML level? Towers isn't that stupid plus he doesn't have to trade Gonzalez yet. He's got a 4 year deal that not up until after the option year that will be picked up that keeps him affordable until 2011.

Keep dreaming.

True true. Its like I said though "Preferably Rios." In either case I would put them in right, and sit swisher. Use one of our remaining CF's and wait until next year before trying to use Ajax.

The Giants need a hitter, not a pitcher, but they have some interesting prospects too.... so how about:

Halladay and Rios to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez, Brandon Crawford, Tim Alderson, and either Villanova or Gillaspie?

Giants get to keep Bumgarner and Posey, and get a bat they need in Rios. (The 2010 salary of Rios basically replaces Randy Winn's of 2009 and they let Winn leave in FA). They also get an INSANE 1-2-3 punch of Lincecum, Halladay, Cain.
Toronto can put Sanchez in the rotation now, gets the left-side of the infield prospects they desire, plus Alderson for the future. (Not to mention $25-M in salary relief next year)

alright sorry that made NO grammatical sense at all.

Porcello is too good to be traded for Halladay, but Billingsley and Kershaw are not.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Somebody made a funny.

Im saying that they aren't going to trade Hughes. Cashman has said "How can I look at Mo in the face and tell him Im going to weaken the pen." - He was only referring to moving him to the rotation there, so trading him seems even more farfetched to me.

bob loblaw,

while i agree with that there's no guarantee that those draft picks amount to anything. You also have to factor in the percentage chance of Halladay resigning with the Jays after 2010 which is dropping by the day. The best deal they can get is what they get today. By the offseason it goes down.

I still think nobody offers enough, the Jays keep him, they start winning more than they have been, everyone says it's because there's no distraction from trade talks, but it's actually just regression to the mean on the team's poor clutch scores. (Which, as we know, aren't predictive.)

I don't know if I made my point in my other posts. Hopefully this is will clarify want I wanted to say. Toronto is not acting out of desperation. They know the value they want in any Halladay trade. If they do not get what they have already decided he is worth, they will not deal him. They will not take a lesser package because they are concerned with what happens after the 2010 season. J.P's contract runs out then anyways

The Tigers can't afford Halladay at this point. They sent away much of their promising talent a couple years ago, so they need to hold on to the few guys they have now.

Here's an important fact to remember.

The Blue Jays are the only team in MLB that already has more money committed to players in 2010 than 2009... think about this for a second. Before they can even think about filling spots after losing guys to free agency, watching some guys salaries go higher through arbitration, etc... they already go into 2010 with a higher payroll. Thanks mostly to the Rios and Wells contracts kicking into full gear.

Now, as an owner of a MLB baseball team destined to watch his team finish 4th or 5th this year and probably 4th or 5th next year in the AL East... wouldn't you be doing everything you can to shed payroll?

Not saying this means getting nothing in return for guys like Halladay, Rios, and Rolen... but rarely do you ever see a team already have more money committed to players the FOLLOWING season than they do during the CURRENT season.

Maybe other teams realize this, think these guys prices will ultimately come down (due to pressure from ownership to shed)... and someone can pluck one of these guys for less than 80 cents on the dollar.

The Jays might take that if the Yankees took on Wells. They wouldn't want to and I wouldn't want them to, but they might have pressure from the owners to cut costs and this might be the only chance of unloading Vernon. That said, I don't even see the yankees taking on Vernon's contract.

aclbosox - "Adrian Gonzalez gets traded to the Red Sox (Buchholz goes, but not much else, and the Towers-Epstein connection strikes again)."

Towers will be gone before Gonzalez goes anywhere. Maybe the "Towers-Epstein connection" can get him a job. Depodesta should be gone as well.

"Yanks give:

1.Chamberlain
2.Gardner/Melky
3.Melancon/McAllister
4,5.Two PTBNL"

That seems like a pretty good deal for Halladay without the Yanks having to take Wells' massive contract. And no, I am not a Yankee fan.

"Yanks give:

1.Chamberlain
2.Gardner/Melky
3.Melancon/McAllister
4,5.Two PTBNL

Jays give:

1.Halladay
2.Wells"

If I'm the Blue Jays, I think that you seriously have to consider this kind of offer.

The Vernon Wells contract is going to turn into an absolute disaster, and that team is going to have some trouble absorbing so much wasted money.

If they can shed the salaries of Halladay and Wells long term while adding an impact talent in Chamberlain, along with some other solid pieces, then that could be a huge move for them.

Does anyone else find it shocking how much money the Blue Jays seemingly have committed to Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, A.J. Burnett, and B.J. Ryan over the years? Seems crazy..

The Blue Jays are the only team in MLB that already has more money committed to players in 2010 than 2009... think about this for a second. Before they can even think about filling spots after losing guys to free agency, watching some guys salaries go higher through arbitration, etc... they already go into 2010

The money they have committed next year is only to 8 players. their payroll would be 81 mil. because of those two god awful contract will force the hand of the jays to trade halladay because he is due 15 million and actually get something in return. the jays are in really really bad shape over the next couple years. let the fire sale begin.

Okay, I'm a Yankee fan, and I'm trying not to be biased here.

If you're the Blue Jays, and the Yankees offered you Joba, Jesus Montero, Ian Kennedy, and Zach McAllister for Halladay, would you take it?

Unlike others on here, I'm not so hesitant on giving up Montero. The Yankees' farm system may be bare in a few positions, but catcher is NOT one of them. Cervelli, Austin Romine, and Gary Sanchez, help to provide a lot of catching depth.

"The Giants need a hitter, not a pitcher, but they have some interesting prospects too.... so how about:

Halladay and Rios to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez, Brandon Crawford, Tim Alderson, and either Villanova or Gillaspie?

Giants get to keep Bumgarner and Posey, and get a bat they need in Rios. (The 2010 salary of Rios basically replaces Randy Winn's of 2009 and they let Winn leave in FA). They also get an INSANE 1-2-3 punch of Lincecum, Halladay, Cain.
Toronto can put Sanchez in the rotation now, gets the left-side of the infield prospects they desire, plus Alderson for the future. (Not to mention $25-M in salary relief next year
"

That's a sad sad offer. Without Bumgarden or Posey, Giants are not coming close to Roy. Sanchez, even if he just pitched a no-no.. isn't good.

"""""|"Hughes, Joba, and Montero are off limits. Anyone else can be had, but not those three."

haha i love the yankee fan that thinks the yankees can give up a couple poor prospects to obtain an ace. when dealing with halladay for any team there are no "untouchables" or there is no deal. clearly the jays are holding all the cards. if the yankees want halladay they have to at least start with montero or hughes. """"""

he never implied that Halladay could be had without those three e.g. Z-mac, jackson, Betances, suttle +. He just said he, as a fanatico would be displeased to see Montero, Hughes or Joba traded. Why so fast to jump on a comment from someone who is partial to a team you are not? Does it make you feel better about you?

and Re: porcello/Chamberlain; I don't know if he is talking about the values of each prospect or oganizational state, as the Yankees are in more of a position where they can in theory mortgage some future with a better pitching staff and pitching farm

I'm not sure why it's surprising that the Jays have more money committed next year than this year. Unless the player in question is 40, every multi-year contract pays the player at least as much as the previous year, every year.

Posted by: Torgen | July 16, 2009 at 03:15 PM

Um, no... this is not true. Not every contract signed is a backloaded contract.

Plus, mid market teams are the ones who especially need payroll flexibility. You need money coming off the books as there will inevitably be areas for improvement. I doubt an owner who already has a more expensive roster next year will be willing to add significant payroll in a division dominated by 3 teams.

I would be shocked if both Rolen and Halladay are on the team this time next year. And I am sure Riccardi is doing everything he can to unload Rios, but his crappy .712 OPS and even worse contract is getting in the way... despite being an excellent defender.

Can I just point out the hypocritical nature in which people are evaluating the Yankees situation?

Point 1-Joba

Where oh where was it stated that the guy is hurt? I agree that there have been some inconsistencies to his velocity this year but overall the guy has had a decent year. In his 1st full season as a SP at age 23 I would hardly call a 4.25 ERA in 17 starts a bust. I would also say that if Porcello or Price struggle thru this year and end up with less than stellar numbers, no one would be calling them busts either or suggest that Price be sent to the bullpen because they need an 8th inning guy. Joba was and should stay a full time starter, unless for health reasons that proves to be a better option. Joba is a prisoner of his own hype, hype brought on by NY AND national media (ESPN highlights, etc, etc). That has nothing to do with how a baseball decision is made. For the sake of brevity I wont bother to repost stats, etc, but Joba is not getting hammered. He simply needs to maintain velocity on his fastball (94 mph or better) to keep hitters honest and mix in his superb off speed stuff. He's been mildly wild, meaning he's not all over the place, but he's not exactly hitting the corners with regularity, thus causing a lot of 3-2 counts, high pitch counts and thus short 5-6 IP starts. All things you might expect from a 23 yr old SP 3 years removed from college. The light switch could easily turn on and he can easily become a 15 game winner IF he can learn from his mistakes and learn to harness his stuff a little better.

And just my pinion, but a mid-20's SP who can win 15 games @ $400k is a lot more valuable to me than a $15 mil 32 yr old who might win you 20.

Point 2-How the Yanks value their young.

On one hand the Yanks get bombed for never developing their farm, trading them away for older vets, etc, etc. On the other hand people are now bombing Cashman for being hesitant on trading 4 or 5 GOOD prospects and mlb ready talent for 1 1/2 years of Halladay? And the funny thing is…both arguments are coming from the same people.

**Just because a Yanks fan says, I wouldn’t trade for Halladay if it includes Montero, Jackson, Joba, Hughes, etc ISN’T the same as assuming the Jays would accept anything less. Some Yanks fans are stupid but I don’t think any of them think we can get Halladay w/o giving up a couple of guys that we don’t want to trade. Because the Yanks are a team with a $200 mil payroll and huge amounts of money ($100 mil) committed to Tex, Arod, Jeter, Posada and Mo is the EXACT reason why we should hold on to Joba, Hughes, Jackson, Montero, Melancon and Romine. The Yanks have really good talent who in the very near future can be cheap, controllable and affordable good replacements for aging, expensive veterans. The only way they can keep their payroll from escalating is by using the farm to replace the older vets.

Despite missing the playoffs in 2008, ask yourself, which scenario has worked out better for the Yanks?

Yanks with Johan
- $135 mil
- Hughes, Cabrera and IPK.

Or

Yanks with CC
- $161 mil
+ Hughes
+ Cabrera
+ IPK

Point 3- Montero and the alleged “overhype”.

Your opinions are what they are and I won’t bother to try to convince anyone. Montero does have to improve his defense if he wants to debut as a C. However, he is only 19 and isn’t being counted on for another 2 years or so. However his numbers are really good and until this year I don’t think he’s been ranked in anyone’s top 20.

2008 - @ 18 yrs of age @ Low A: .326/.376 171 hits, 34 dbls, 17 hrs, 83 SO in 525 at bats

2009- @ 19 yrs of age @ A+/AA: .330/.386 20 dbls, 13 hrs, 41 SO in 288 at bats

Thus far he’s demonstrated the ability to hit for power, for average and has shown good plate discipline. The truth will be shown once we see how he finishes this year and how he fairs at AAA which I think will be by 2010. Still…..how can you call him overhyped when he’s posted better numbers than most of the position players ahead of him. The only legitimate problem with Montero is finding him a position. I think Cervelli will be the short-term replacement for Posada and eventually he’ll replaced by Austin Romine who is a better hitter than Cervelli and a better defensive player than Montero. However when you have a guy of his caliber you find a spot for him even if it’s as a DH. I wouldn’t be shocked to see him turned into a LF soon. He’s young and agile, not some 260 lb sloth.

So the Yanks would trade Hughes (FOR potential), Jackson (possible 2010 starting CF), ROmine (possible replacement for Posada), Melancon (possible closer) pay $15 mil for Halladay in 2010 AND eat about $70 mil of Wells to get Johnathon Sanchez? And the GIants would want to pay the other $56 mil owed to Wells because.............they want to platoon him with Aaron ROwand to become the most overrated and over compensated dynam-du-du OF tandem? I think the Yanks and Giants would pass on that deal.

How about the Tigers trade Granderson, Porcello, Dontrelle, Casper Wells (Pros) & Jeff larish (Pros)for Doc Halladay & Vernon Wells

I dunno Jake, that sounds like a bunch of Yankee homerism. I agree that the Yankees are well equipped to take on salary, but I doubt they'd want another mega contract in addition to the ones they already have.

In addition, I doubt the Yankees will trade Jackson/Montero/Hughes/Joba, and you'd have to include at least two of those in any deal, even if Wells was included.

About Halladay only liking the Yanks or Cards - PLEASE. It's pretty clear that the Phils are the team to beat in the NL East. With Halladay, they have a pretty clear shot to the playoffs, and they did win the WS last year. Further, he would be in the NL - and I'm sure he knows how much better his numbers would look there.

The best of both worlds? Athletes can put their personal feelings aside; and to be honest, the Phils and Red Sox both have better teams than the Yankees, sorry to break it to you (not that the Red Sox would trade for him, I can't see that happening).

I say this as a White Sox fan, having no opinion on the AL East or Phils/Cards.

"The best of both worlds? Athletes can put their personal feelings aside; and to be honest, the Phils and Red Sox both have better teams than the Yankees, sorry to break it to you (not that the Red Sox would trade for him, I can't see that happening)."

This is the funniest statement I've heard in a while. While the Red Sox are a better team than the Yankees, (but not by much) the Yankees are easily better than the Philles. The Philles may have a slight edge in the lineup, but the pitching staff of the Yankees is WAY better than the Philles. You don't see them begging Pedro to only take a million.

And this is coming from a Rockies fan. No bias.

i laugh.
NO prospect is untouchable. ANY prospect would only be one of MULTIPLE prospects included to get Halladay.

i could see the Jays ending up with Joba. the Jays seem to have a history this season of injured pitchers on the DL, so Joba would just be another one.
please Toronto, do no trade for Joba!

any deal anyone is thinking up, its not enough. there has to be 3 top prospects, and more.
look at what the Rangers got for Teixeira, and work from there.
the prospects for Halladay, have to be comparable to Saltalamacchia/Andrus/Feliz/Harrison/plus

if its not up to that level, dont bother.

"any deal anyone is thinking up, its not enough. there has to be 3 top prospects, and more.
look at what the Rangers got for Teixeira, and work from there.
the prospects for Halladay, have to be comparable to Saltalamacchia/Andrus/Feliz/Harrison/plus"

I beg to differ that the deal I offered wasn't enough.

Chacin is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. Equals Feliz in the deal.

Rosario is the top Rockies catching prospect, very high upside, and is barely 20. Compares to Saltalamacchia in the deal.

Gomez is a a young defensive whiz at SS who has a good bat. Only 21. Compares to Andrus in the deal.

Hammel is a former Rays top pitching prospect who has put great numbers with the Rockies. Don't let the 4 + ERA disenlighten you: he has a 1.98 ERA away from Coors. Much better than Harrison, who profiles as a BOR starter.

Add a mid level pitching prospect in there, and the Rockies easily trumph that deal for Tex. The Jays would have to seriously consider that for Halliday.

"If the Yankees take Zito for Vernon then it makes sense for the Giants!"

I'd cry if that happened (Yankee fan).

"Joe Strauss of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch says the Cardinals are now downplaying a potential Halladay trade, mentioning that they have too little pitching and won't include centerfielder Colby Rasmus in a deal."

Soo, this means the Cardinals are probably out of the Halladay race, since I can't see a deal happening without Rasmus.

The "untouchable prospects" lingo is getting stupider by the minute.

"The "untouchable prospects" lingo is getting stupider by the minute."

Most of the guys discussed aren't even prospects anymore...they are starters on the MLB team that would create a whole by getting Halladay, like Rasmus.

How about Zito & Sanchez for Joba

"We will give you Gardner,Montero,McAllister (best pitcher in the farm system right now and was the best pitcher in the AA all-star game the other night) and Brackman or Betances (young guys that have a HIGH potential) and will also take all of the contract $$ involving Halladay and Wells, they will accept the deal gladly and have no regrets. "

Yankees won't take on Wells so it's all moot. Also, moot is this idea of Colorado. Roy wants to win not play in his hometown. Sorry but Rockies aren't happening. Also, since STL is downplaying a trade it looks like its Philadelphia or nobody.

The Yankees should trade Joba Chamberlain for the following reasons: He has been extremely inefective during the last 5 starts and upon being interviewed - has accepted that he pitched well and the hits against him were a result of pitching to very good batters and major league players. These are CHILDISH comments!!! - they demonstrate that Joba does not take responsibilities for his actions and moreover, is not willing to make every effort to improve his performance. His velocity has decreased from 100 to 92mph! and does not have the killer instinct he showed as a reliever. For this and other reasons, the Yanks MUST get rid of him. Go after Halladay.

Posted by: angelrodriguez | July 16, 2009 at 05:14 PM
--------

This has to be one of the most ignorant statements ever. Trade Joba because he had 5 bad starts? And that comments about not taking responsibility for his actions? This is still a baseball game where talking about right? Give me a break. Why is it that Yankee prospects are hyped beyond imagination by the media (and many fans) yet when they struggle initially (like their 1st year) then they're slugs and total busts? Not ever prospect is going to hit like Albert Puols or pitch like Dwight Gooden in their first year or even their 2nd or third. DOesn't make them busts dude.