Discussion: Twins' Offseason

I've been reading lots of articles and comments about trading Nathan, and while I understand the thought process (he's has value as a great closer signed for two more years at slightly below market price; losing a little velocity; looks shaky in the postseason; better to trade a player one year too early than too late; etc), I don't see it as a reasonable option right now.

From the Twins perspective, if they believe they are contenders (and I have to believe they do) then the only way it makes sense is if they think they can fill either 2B, 3B, SS or a SP role by trading Nathan. Or potentially more than one of those spots. But the return has to be major-league production, not potential. And I would guess that only teams that think they are contenders are going to want to trade for am all-star closer with a big contract.

How many of those teams are going to think, "We're close, all we need is a closer, and to get him, we can spare our starting third baseman (or second baseman, or shortstop, or, even less likely, one of our starting pitchers)."

Trading a closer usually brings the best return when done at the deadline, and he is being sent from a team out of contention and looking for prospects. I think holding on to Nathan at this point is the only realistic option for the Twins. Sure, if some great deal rolls along (and at this point I don't even know what that would be), jump on it, but what are the odds of that? If the Twins suffer a letdown next summer and are trailing by 10 games in July, then by all means, trade Nathan for a handful of players. And as a Twins fan, I have to pray that their talent evaluation has gotten better since the Santana and Delmon trades...

You don't go after Uggla the butcher boy.
Sign Orlando Cabrera.
Find a 3B- Beltre?

Twins need starting pitching.

Can't wait for the frozen tundra Aprils and Septembers in the new park.

Nathan, although he pitched them into submission, was at least the last Twin to leave the dugout when they lost. And then he went out and gathered some dirt from the mound before leaving the hanky house for the last time. I'd say he needs to be a Twin for life, if he'll give'em a discount.

Apparently trading your closer is the new way for teams to save money and address roster holes. Of course if everybody puts their closer on the market, they are unlikely to get much for them.

Also, it occurs to me that trading one of the best closers in the league is not a strategy that makes a team better, especially if there is no obvious replacement internally.

Papelbon, Street, Nathan, Wagner (maybe), Jenks, Rodney, Soriano, Gonzalez, Gregg, Capps, and Bell have all been mentioned as possible closers and this list doesnt even include everyone. That is 11 players that are only leaving maybe 2 teams (DET and ATL) that would be going outside the organization for a closer. The other teams I could see signing a closer are BAL, CHC, PHI, WAS, and FLA. The truth is that even these 5 teams have internal options.

At the end of the day, this is a bad year to be a free agent reliever. The free agents of this group are unlike to see the contracts that are being talked about (like someone's suggestion that Rodney will get $10 million per year for 3 years).

Twins will stand pat. Sign Bobby Crosby, Jamie Carroll types. Pitching ok. Bullpen very good. OF/DH excellent. Speed ok. very solid team. Look at record.

Sorry for any poor gammar or spelling in my previous post as it is really hard to revise on an Iphone and really easy to hit the wrong key.

C-Mauer
1B-Morneau
2B-Punto
3B-Cuddyer
SS-Cabrera
LF-Young
CF-Gomez
RF-Span
DH-Kubel

SP1-Harden
SP2-Baker
SP3-Blackburn
SP4-Slowey
SP5-Liriano
RP-Neshek
RP-Guerrier
CP-Nathan

Twins will do what they always do.

1. Mauer will be extended.
2. They'll bargain shop for the left side of the infield, probably bringing back Cabrera after looking at other options.
3. They'll bring in a Pavano-style back-end rotation type veteran on the cheap, in the hopes that Rick Anderson can get him pitching as a #2-3 type guy.

But that's not what Twins fans should really care about. If the past decade has taught us anything, it's always the May/June adjustments the Twins roster make that determines their fate.

I think a Kelly Johnson for Delmon Young would benefit both the players and clubs. Both have shown flashes of promise, but have been too inconsistent. A change of scenary could do them some good (see Franceour for Church).

I would be down with a KJ Young swap but the Twins need to know that for whatever reason he cannot hit at the top of te order.

If they think Gomez can hit enough to hit #2 then it might be worth it for them.

Extend Mauer and Cuddyer. Let Cabrera and his poor defense go. Trade Gomez and Perkins to SD for Kouzmanov. Sign Pavano. Leave Delmon (play him every day) and Nathan alone. SS/2B next season =Punto/Casilla/Plouffe combo. Starting rotation = Pavano/Slowey/Blackburn/Baker/Duensing. Minor leaguers waiting in the wings for sp depth. Bullpen should be exceptionally strong w/o doing a thing. This is affordable and would be a strong team.

Young for Jurrjens?

Comon now.

But I agree ATL would have to add more to the deal or MIN just might wait and see if he is nontendered.

"Kelly Johnson has little value to the Twins. He is no better than Nick Punto and is only marginally better than Alexi Casilla. He does have more power than either of them to be sure, but the Twins are not looking at power as a primary asset at 2B. Trading Delmon Young for Johnson just doesn't make any sense for the Twins.

The Twins need a starting pitcher and a 3B. If Atlanta wants Delmon Young so bad, they will probably need to send Jair Jurrjens our way.

The Braves just don't match up well with the Twins as a trade partner since our needs and their available players just don't fit together." Posted by: bernie

Two months ago Delmon was in the same position with the Twins that KJ is with the Braves. Neither has much value to their current team nor on the open market. Nor am I saying Atlanta "wants" Delmon, but neither did the Twins and I doubt their feeling have changed much since.

I'm not suggesting this would be a blockbuster trade nor that they would be the only players involved, only that it might be something to explore. Do I think it will happen, probably not. But this is a rumor site where the readers are free to post their thoughts and suggestions.

And by the way, Jurrjens for Young is a much better deal than what I suggested. If the Twins want Jair, they'll have to send Young, Cuddyer AND Morneau!!

is Gomez for Hardy enough? I believe Mike Cameron is a free agent so they would be in the market for a cheap CF.

I know its not terribly likely but could the twins build package around cuddyer kubel or nathan plus a very good prospect or two for Yunel Escobar? Some Atlanta fans say he's untradeable but i keep hearing reports that bobby doesn't like him or that he's on the block. Atl seems set starting pitcher wise So what kind of prospects would you guys want? Valencia for 3b? we could really use Yunel to play SS then sign Beltre and thats a pretty solid left side of the infield

Posted by: Den_Orath | October 14, 2009 at 12:16 PM
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After the season that Yunel had last year I would say that he is very close to untouchable. Also, the Braves have ZERO upper tier shortstop prospects in the minors. The reports of him not getting along with Bobby Cox were exaggerated...both denied that they had any problem with each other. Bobby even said recently that he felt like Yunel was one of the best shortstops in baseball this year. Also, Bobby is retiring after next season so it really doesn't matter anyway.

Does anybody know what the dimensions of the new park will be? Thanks

trading joe nathan makes absolutely no sense for 2 reasons:

1) you won't get much for him
2) you can't replace him

joe nathan gave up a home run to alex rodriguez in game 2 at yankee stadium because for some reason, he threw 3 sliders away that resulted in a 3-0 count and made it look like they wanted nothing to do with him. then, after throwing a batting practice fastball right over the plate on 3-0 the SAME pitch is called on 3-1 and A-Rod was not looking for anything else. why a curve or changeup wasn't called in that situation is beyond me. they didn't seem afraid to walk him the first 3 pitches of the at bat and then all of a sudden they need to throw perfect fastballs. it was just a horrible decision by pitcher/catcher/coach or whatever. papelbon, street, and ryan franklin also blew games for their clubs in the postseason. it happens. trading someone just because they didn't do well in the postseason isn't smart. if that's the case, the twins need to ship out jason kubel who went 1-14 with 9 K's.

nathan had a career high in saves this year, had his highest K totals and .BAA in 3 years. to say he is losing his "stuff" is not accurate.

It was said that Atlanta had nothing they could really offer to the Twins to fill our needs. But what about Martin Prado? He has a .307 Avg with OBP of .358! Combined with 11 homers and 50+ RBI, I think he would be a good young fit for us at third base. Maybe offer up Crede/Young for Prado and a young pitching prospect? Then you could have Cuddy in right, Span in center and Kubel in left. We could sign a decent fill in for DH. Let Casilla and Harris battle it out for 2B. Harris may not be the best all around player but he came through in the clutch for the Twins, especially in the postseason. Maybe we could go outside the box for a change and sign Scuataro and try him out at 2B or keep him at short and move Cabrera to second.

Keep Gomez around for pinch running or just get rid of him. Either way I have never really liked him and he makes too many mistakes.

But one thing is for certain, keeping our free agents here is top priority. If nothing else, we have to at least make sure Mauer and Pavano stay. I would also like to see Mahay and Cabrera stick around but those two should not be top priority. The fact of the matter is this, if the Twins want to be able to really compete, they will have to start spending at least a little more money. This 2-16 in the last 18 postseason games just is not cutting it!

For the first time in many, many years, the Twins don't need to look for power for their lineup. They currently have five good to great hitters: Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Span & Cuddyer.

Trading for JJ Hardy, which I am all in favor of - give them Perkins, Delmon and a low level prospect, if we have to - would be a nice addition to the power they already have.

While I doubt the Twins will spend the money, Chone Figgins is the perfect fit for the hole at 3B and in the second spot in the lineup (which, in my opinion, isn't a hole...Gardenhire simply refuses to bat Mauer there and mover everyone else up a spot...whatever). What would it take? 3 years, $30 mil? 4 years, $32 mil? Big money for the Twins, but he would fit nicely in multiple ways: defensive position need, hitting, on base ability & baserunning, and 'gritty', team-style of play.

Gomez, while terrible at the plate and over-excited on the basepaths, is the best option to play center field. Do you realize that he drew almost twice as many walks as Delmon in less plate appearances? Walks certainly aren't everything, but I wouldn't be shocked if he matched Delmon's whopping 12 homeruns if he played everyday as well. Yes, he's bad, but he's just as young as Delmon and at least has one major league ready talent right now: outfield defense. He needs to play everyday, and I fully support playing him and batting him 9th. His defense, especially on a team that features fly-ball pitchers, is critical.

Trading Nathan is a non-issue: don't do it unless we completely fall out of the race next summer. Re-signing Pavano to a reasonable contract ($4 mil base + incentives?) is not an exciting move, but it is likely and it is an improvement over the Livan/Ponson debacles of recent years. That sets up for a rotation of Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Pavano and a battle between Duensing/Manship/Swarzak/etc. And that completely ignores the slight possibility of a Liriano comeback. I think he should be groomed to take over for Nathan, but he has to have better control to be an effective closer.

I know I'm dreaming, but this would be a great improvement over the last few years:

LF - Span
3B - Figgins
C - Mauer
1B - Morneau
DH - Kubel
RF - Cuddyer
SS - Hardy
2B - Punto
CF - Gomez

SP - Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Pavano, Duensing?

RP - Nathan, Guerrier, Rauch, Crain, Mijares, Liriano

Probably another reliever (or two) and a bench of Morales, Casilla, Tolbert & Pridie?

I can't stand Punto, but adding Figgins and Hardy would make his presence tolerable. Still a crappy bench, but that is a respectable lineup and a solid pitching staff.

Svengoolie: The dimensions for Minnesota's new ballpark are 339' to Left; 377' to left field's Power Alley; 404' to Center; 367' to right field's Power Alley; and 328' to Right. The outfield walls are 8' from the left field foul pole to right center field and 23' from right center field to right field foul pole.

Top priority is obviously signing Joe Mauer long-term. everyone agrees there. Other names the Twins need to look at:

1. Adrian Beltre: Twins top of player. Great defense, right-handed bat with some power upside in a rebound year and a some speed too.

2. Troy Glaus: Glaus is kind of a forgotten name at this point, but if he'll sign a low-base, high-incentive contract he'd be a great gamble. He played solid (though not spectacular) defense for the Cards in 2008 while posting a strong .270/.372/.483 line and hitting 27 HR.

3. Hank Blalock: Not as a third baseman, but just as depth off the bench. Our pinch hitting options this year were dismal, and The Hammer would give the Twins a legitimate power threat off the bench, while occasionally spelling Morneau at first and possibly whoever our third baseman ends up being.

4. Felipe Lopez: Solid but unspectacular defense at second base, but a switch hitter with a .364 OBP and marginal power would slot nicely into the #2 spot if the Twins insist on hitting Mauer third.

5. JJ Hardy: A nice buy-low candidate for shortstop. The Brewers desperately need pitching, and have a capable replacement in Alcides Escobar. I'd be comfortable with any one of Swarzak/Duensing/Manship as the starting point for negotiations, and adding another mid-level name on to work out a deal. Solid defense and a good bounce-back candidate for 2010.

6. Orlando Cabrera: Not in love with the idea of O-Cab coming back, but he can provide some leadership, meshed well with our players, and brought a lot of energy. With an offseason to rest, his defense will hopefully improve. He won't be what he was in 2005, but he played respectable defense for the White Sox in 2008 and can hopefully do it again.

7. Joe Crede: I doubt Crede can stay healthy, but if he'd return on a similar deal and there are no better options, at least we'd be getting strong defense and some home runs from third base while he's in the lineup.

Other than that, there aren't many veteran starters who intrigue me. I'd like to see a Harden or Bedard move, but they'll likely be too expensive and they're hardly reliable to pitch more than 100 innings anyway. Justin Duchscherer is of course interesting, but he's a question mark as well. Tim Hudson and John Lackey will be too pricey. Jason Marquis is coming off a career year, ditto for Joel Pineiro -- stay away from those two. Wolf is a Type A and will cost too much, and Washburn should be avoided like the plague.

I could see the Twins looking into Jon Garland, but I'm begging they don't pay him more than a couple million if they do. Re-signing Pavano would be a reasonable move at the right price, albeit unspectacular and unexciting.

Don't sign Beltre anytime soon Clubhouse cancer...Sign a veteran, someone we tried to attain before the start of the season...MARK DEROSA. Derosa's versatility to play almost any position is a great benefit to our team. He could play third, as he did for the Cards this year, or he could play second. He is a great leader and a good teammate. Orlando Cabrera should also be signed. He stated his desire to play for minnesota, and deserves that chance. As for second, save some money for the deadline incase a deal can be made, and work the duo of Punto/Casilla. Sign Mauer longterm, and make an offer to Pavano. Making an offer to Pavano would just help sign Mauer longterm.

pavano will sadly get a nice contract this offseason, so don't bank on the twins getting him back (nor should they want to, with his injury history). he's not going to take less than 5 million. i see him getting 2 years, 14-16 million once lackey and bedard are off the board, seeing as how there are no other pitchers on the market.

the twins need to seriously look into trading for pat burrell. i know, he didn't have a great year last year, but he never seemed healthy and never seemed to adjust to being a full time DH. burrell could play left (he's no worse than delmon in the field, and a better hitter who would be batting 7th) and wouldn't cost much if the rays want to shed some salary. resign o-cab to play short, trade for burrell and trade for JJ Hardy to play third and the offense is a whole lot better.

the starting pitching isn't as big of a problem as it might look. they still have baker, blackburn, duensing. plus slowey is coming back. and you have plenty of #5 options - perkins, liriano, bonser. no need to go out and spend a whole lot.

Pardon me for being a little late in commenting, but I couldn't stop laughing at the suggestions of Twins fans have on here on what it would take to get Hardy.

Perkins?? Please. The Brewers have guys that can post nearly 6 ERAs. You have to start with Slowey if you want to deal a pitcher straight up.

Gomez?? He might make a piece the Brewers had interest in, but he'd be a righthanded platoon guy, so you don't trade an everyday SS (even one coming off a bad year) for a right handed half of a platoon.

If the Twins packaged Liriano and Gomez, the Brewers might bite on that based on perception of upside for both players.

But forget about unloading your excess junk for Hardy. It's not happening.