Curtis Granderson Rumors: Friday

What would the Tigers get in return? Granderson's a very good player with a solid contract.

And that new defensive alignment for the Angels sounds crazy. Rivera's a better corner than Abreu, and Granderson's probably a bit better than Torii. From left to right, I'd go Rivera, Grandy, Hunter, with Abreu DH'ing.

I as a Yankee fan in no way want Granderson as the everyday Centerfielder or Leftfielder for that matter. I like Keith Law consider him a platoon player. Because of this it would be extremely foolish for the Yankees to surrender any high propsects for him. However if they could somehow get him for anyone not named, Hughes, Joba, Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero or Zach Mcallister. Then by all means pick him up. If it takes one of the names mentioned, then it's not worth it. The Yankees need to save those chips for a Roy Halladay or even more importantly a Felix Hernandez trade if made available. Oh also, none of this John Lackey to the Yankees. Let him goto the Mets. I don't want any part of Lackey. Hopefully the Yankees interest is to just drive up his price.

Really ? This is disapointing as this would take them out of the Roy Halladay discussion completly - Well, predicated on the idea that they would trade Wood and or Napoli.

"This is disapointing as this would take them out of the Roy Halladay discussion completly"

True, but it does make signing Lackey much more likely.

Probably floated to nudge Figgins in a direction. Angels have to have a plan going into free agency and it starts with Figgins.

Lots of moving parts here.

Granderson's a much better bat when he's allowed to bat in the 5 spot in the line up verse the lead off. He's just not a good lead off hitter... He tries too hard to be and it shows. Move him down in the lineup and he produces.

Gosh what can i say about Granderson. He has so much potential but just cant seem to put it all together. He is basically an automatic out against lefties, and he now tries to pull everything he sees over the right field wall instead of getting base hits. And the sky might fall if he ever worked out a walk. Keith Law might be right in saying he is basically a platoon player so I'd be quite happy if the Tigers could get some useful pieces for him.

That being said, his off field presence in Detroit is irreplaceable. His work with charities exceeds anyone elses and he is just a stand up guy. That is what I'd miss most about him being traded

If needed the angels can trade abreu or rivera to the mets since they need a lf

Please give them Matthews and cash, please oh please.

I think the Yanks need to take a real long look at who Grandy is.

Negatives
-Strikes out way too much.
-Not a very good contact/OBP guy.
-Misreads/plays too many flyballs.
-Doesn't take advantage of his speed enough by putting the ball in the air too often (5th in the AL on Air Outs, yet hits in to very few Ground Ball Outs).

Positives
-Does a fairly good job of drawing walks.
-Makes pitchers throw lots of pitches (4th in AL in # of pitches taken).
-Great base to base speed but not a particularly "elite" base stealer.

I think if he can refine his swing and aim to be a better contact, gap to gap line drive hitter he can be a more dynamic offensive threat. If he can pick and choose when he swings for the fence, especially RF in NYS then he can raise his avg and obp and take better advantage of his speed. I don't see him being a 30 + hr hitter year in year out but if he makes better contact and learns to spray/drive the ball thru the gaps then he could easily be a 40 dbls, 15 triples and 15 hrs type hitter w/ a .285/.350 line. Sort of like a Brian Roberts/Carl Crawford type. I think in the long run he's more of a top of the lineup guy moreso than a middle of the lineup power hitter. Hopefully, teams will value him as the first.

Even if they try to acquire Grandy I still want them to bring Damon back just in case Grandy continues to swing for the fences and struggles to raise his OBP. The Yanks had a great 1-4 this year and I don't think we should deviate too far from that hitting approach of OBP, bat avg, speed and power.

Angels may be a good fit , tigers could really use brandon wood especially since he has been playing short recently. Maybe Izturis too gets it done. They need a SS and 3B more then they need another OF. Defense may be OK with Clete Thomas , but Clete thomas can't hit a lick or at least consistently. Napoli would be nice but Avila should get the most starts this year and napoli is too good to be a backup and no room for him at DH

I'll be willing to part with Bobby Wilson or Hank Conger but no way will I want Napoli gone. Nor Mathis for that matter.

If the angles got Granderson RIvera to Atl wouldnt be a bad idea. not sure what LA would want back, but Braves get RH LF with pop that they really need for a manageable contract.

Izturis and Matthews.Izturis is a 2B-SS would give Detroit what they need a decent top of the lineup .280 hitter with a good glove.Matthews would take over the CF role for 2010.

Granderson doesn't have that much trade value.He's what he is high SO so-so defender platoon player.

Cronus. It is understood that wherever we send Matthews we will eat 70-100% of the dollars owed his way.

This trade doesn't make any sense.

If the plan is to pass on Figgins why would the Angels trade his replacement away?

If the plan is to move Napoli, why are they giving up a premium offensive player at a premium position who is under team control for another 2 years? Napoli is a better offensive player and when you factor in positions he is just way more valuable. AND the Angels don't have anyone who can platoon with Mathis (who should not catch more than half the games).

Granderson would be much more valuable for a team looking for a CF'er. For better or for worse, Torii Hunter is the CF'er for the Angels. If we are looking to fill an OF spot (which we should because Abreu is awful with the glove) then we need to be looking at LF or RF trade candidates.

I can maybe see a Wood + others deal if Figgins can be retained. Granderson could hit in the middle of the lineup and hopefully provide plus defense in left or right. Still I would rather target a true corner outfielder.

Cubsfan25, I think the Cubs would be estatic if they could get Granderson for spare parts like Hoffpauir, Colvin and Fox. There's no way the Tigers do that. Maybe as additional throw-ins. On the other hand there is absolutely no chance the Cubs trade Castro. Granderson's a good but somewhat limited player (you're description sounds like the Alfonso Soriano of 2-3 years ago), you don't give top shelf talent for that. Vitters is a possibility but that's as high a prospect that the Cubs will deal.

Well then, what do YOU think the Cubs need to give for Granderson?

Btw, I forgot to put in my last comment that there's no way the Cubs would trade Castro. But I actually wouldn't be surprised i they did...

Granderson is being grossly undervalued on this thread. He's been worth 18.5 WAR over the last four years (a $77 million value), even with an outlier 2008 UZR and a law 2009 BABIP. And you get him for his age 29-31 seasons at $25 million? Yeah, sign me up.

If I were the Angels GM, I would offer Matthews/Wood/Napoli for Granderson/Galarraga.

As far as I'm concerned, the Cubs NEED to go after Granderson. How often are you going to find an affordable, speedy CF who hits 30 HRs? Sure her strikes out quite a bit, pops out like there's no tomorrow, and not the BEST defender, but I think I would take all of that when the guy can hit 30 HRs and steals bases.

But to get Granderson, the Cubs are probably going to have to give up SOME value. I think they would have to trade Vitters, Colvin, or Castro, and also, I think Micah Hoffpauir could be in that mix, I think if this guy played every day, I think he could hit 25-30 HRs, same for Jake Fox.

Posted by: CubsFan25 | November 13, 2009 at 12:17 PM

Do you ever propose a trade that actually has a chance of happening? Even video games couldn't make that trade. This was the same guy that said the Reds should trade Brandon Phillips, and Cordero for Bradley, Fox, and Fontenot.

This guy needs some serious help. My dog is a smarter cub fan.

No way the Cubs can afford Granderson especially with the whole Milton Bradley fiasco. Jim Hendry has done a wonderful job setting this team back about 5 years.

In your scenario, the Cubs would possibly trade Castro, B. Jackson and someone for Granderson? Not a chance. But using the same "one from column A and one from column B" scenario you laid out, the trade could also be Cashner, Atkins and a player. There is a HUGE difference in talent between those two scenarios. Cashner is likely a reliever and Atkins, a bottom of the rotation starter. Vitters, Castro,J. Jackson and B. Jackson have far greater potential to be impact players. That post defies logic on so many levels.

I don't think the Cubs want to move Castro or B.Jackson. If that's the case the Cubs should pass. Of your column A guys, Vitters matches up the best in my opinion. Vitters, Atkins, Shafer, and Fox/Fontenot could be offered in your scenario. I could live with that but I think the Cubs should get another bench player in return. It'd be nice if the Cubs could pry Scott Sizemore out of the deal as he is a 2b with leadoff potential.

"I don't think the Cubs want to move Castro or B.Jackson."

What they want to do and what they would need to do can be different things though - that is why upwards of 95% of discussed deals never go down.

"Of your column A guys, Vitters matches up the best in my opinion. Vitters, Atkins, Shafer, and Fox/Fontenot could be offered in your scenario."

Pretty save to say Vitters is the weakest of the Group-A, and if he was the one chosen, you would have to assume Det would be pushing for the best of Group-B - either JJ or Cashner. Cant imagine they would settle for the weakest of both groups.

"1. The cubs need a leadoff hitter with speed. they tried fuckudome, theriot, soriano, and others but none of them have speed. Curis Granderson does."

Granderson is a fairly weak leadoff hitter. Realistically he should be hitting 2nd or 5th (with 3rd also a possibility depending on lineup around him) to minimize his slight OBP limitations and maximize his SLG strength. That is the problem we currently have with Soriano. Granderson would be passable as a Leadoff guy, but he isnt the answer to a team needing a leadoff hitter.

Is it that difficult though to carry a platoon.

Finding hitters that can play great D at the corners, run the bases at a great rate, and can be platooned that effectively with a right-handed hitter is worth something.

.275 .358 .539 .897 in his worst year in a while. That's pretty solid. You find a righty bat that effective (there are quite the few of them, one of them being Juan Rivera himself) and you have a player with more speed, better defense, and AL experience than Matt Holliday.

"Did ANYONE see his mlb-worst for an AL OFer 484 OPS against lefties?

Talk about a flawed player, thats like, most pitchers OPS in the NL. If the Tigers get Wood for him though, more power to them, thats a fleecing...."

Well, luckily we have Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, and Theriot

All right-handed hitters, three of which are capable of hitting 40+ HRs

suzy, why do you keep saying that fox is a possible non-tender candidate? there is absolutely no way they non-tender him. The guy has 100 rbi posibilities with regular playing time, you dont just cut a guy like that.

Trading Napoli is a little bit counterproductive. It saps the lineup.

"Did ANYONE see his mlb-worst for an AL OFer 484 OPS against lefties?

Talk about a flawed player, thats like, most pitchers OPS in the NL. If the Tigers get Wood for him though, more power to them, thats a fleecing...."

Yet even with that OPS verses Lefties, he has still been the statistically most valuable CF in the game.

"suzy, why do you keep saying that fox is a possible non-tender candidate? there is absolutely no way they non-tender him."

This is only true if teams are able to carry as many players as they want on the roster. Unfortunately, there is a 25 man limit on players you can carry though. And Fox being out of options means he needs to be on the ML roster or be released/non-tendered.

While Fox is basically a DH on a NL club with no current RF (since Bradley is being removed), a LF who cant play a full year, a CF who cant really play a full year in Center and currently 4 Utility Infielders (Miles, Blanco, Baker and Fontenot) taking 3 of the 4 non-catcher bench spots.

If Hendry sticks to his feelings on him and decides that non-tendering Fontenot is not an option, then Fox has to go so we can add a defensive capable OF to the bench.

I really think Granderson's value isn't even Napoli though.

He struggled at the end of last year, but a decent defensive catcher with a 858 OPS in a down year last year? A 858? Not to mention he's cheap. That's extremely tough to find.

As much as I'd like to get rid of Miles, I think we're stuck with him for another year. That said, Fox has some trade value as a cheap AL DH. I think he'll be dealt but don't expect much. Other teams know the position the Cubs are in, they'll either trade him for a mid to low level prospect or make him a throw in player in a multi player deal.

"no, he doesnt. they arent keeping miles, fontenot and baker on the 25 man roster. Miles is likely gone."

If Miles was likely gone then he would have been gone last season and Hendry wouldnt be talking about how he will bounce back in 2010 to be "very good" again (yeah, unfortunately Hendry said it about 2 days ago)

"Fontenot has no impact on Fox."

The last roster-spot comes down to one of those two based off Hendry's comments regarding Miles. I know, it sucks, but it is what it is. One of the two needs to be traded, non-tendered or released. While everyone and their mother knows Hendry likes Fontenot and is obsessed with middle infielders - not a good sign for Fox.

And even if Hendry does choose to remove Fontenot, it isnt a guarantee that Fox will be kept. Fuld likely would be the defensive bench spot, but he doesnt make a good pinch-hitter with his extremely weak bat. Hoffpauir (a lefty with similar poor defensive ability and similar hitting value) poses a possibly better line-up fitting option then the RHed Fox - LH hitting is the other obsession afterall. Or maybe he goes out and looks on the FA market for a corner guy with more experience - a good idea as our bench stands to have no real positive experience on it currently.

Leaving us with an overall strong possibility that Fox could be traded/non-tendered/released this offseason under multiple scenarios.

"why would they make him a throw away player?"

27 Years Old. No defensive ability. Out of options. No real Major League Experience. Inconsistent minor league production.

Realistically, he just doesnt hold the value you apparently think he should.

I think I would rather see him start in left too.

Fox could be the next Adam Dunn, strikes out a lot, didn't take that many walks, but whatever, and with regular playing time, I think he could hit 25-30 HRs and drive in 100+ runs.

He's not a bad defender, he just hasn't had enough experience, and he can play the corner spots in the OF and IF, and he can play C in an emergency. You just don't cut a player like that.

Go call the Nats and try getting Adam Dunn instead of Granderson

that is true about the best players being at his positions, but thats not a huge issue. Those guys are starting to get a bit older. I wouldnt hate to see Fox play once a week at LF, RF, 1B, and 3B. give those guys some regular time off to keep them healthier. Use him like they used DeRosa

he may not get his best shot with the cubs. As much as I like the guy, if we can trade him for something good then by all means do so. But this talk about him being a throw in player on a deal or flat out non-tendering him just seems rediculous

I wouldn't trade Castro or Vitters for Granderson. It'd suck to trade Cashner, but he is the one of those 3 I would consider.

Still, I think they HAVE to put Fox in a deal for Granderson. He is made for the DH spot, and he can play a bit of defense at 4 or 5 spots (LF, RF, 1B, 3B, C). They could put Jay Jackson in as a OF replacement since they will be getting Granderson.

Still, and ideal move I would like them to do is Fuld, Fox, Gorzelanny or Marshall, Blanco of Fontenot (or Baker, with the Cubs then doing the alleged 3-way deal that results in Castillo), and one or 2 righty relievers (since they have a bushel of good, young 'pen arms--Patton, Atkins, Caridad, Berg, Stevens, Guzman, etc.).

The reason I think this COULD happen is that the Tigers would maybe get 5 or 6MLB-ready players at positions they need help. They will need a SP with Jackson maybe leaving, and they don't really have a good lefty SP option. Blanco is a defensive stud at SS, and they need it with the hole they have there. Fox brings the 30+ HR power with defensive flexibility (even if he's not much of a defender). Fuld would give them a defensive CF to replace Granderson (since their corner OFs are trash on D). They have Lyon and Rodney as FAs, so they will need to reload the 'pen if one or both leave.

So, in review--defensive SS, defensive CF, monster power in Fox, decent #4-5 lefty SP, and one or 2 young 'pen arms. I would think this WAY more than enough, even without the A-level prospect most think DET would need.

Don't give up on Napoli because Mike Scioscia manages in the 80s

“Fox could be the next Adam Dunn, strikes out a lot, didn't take that many walks, but whatever, and with regular playing time, I think he could hit 25-30 HRs and drive in 100+ runs.”

Because of his defense, Dunn ends up being pretty close to average. Dunn – Walks – HR (since Dunn hits 40, not 25-30) means well below average. It actually pretty much creates Jeff Francouer without the Defensive ability. And everyone knows Jeff is holding on because of fair defense, blind hope of potential at the plate and his being under 25 – well, now 26 for 2010. Fox only has 2 of those 3 things – the hope of potential. But Fox hasn’t shown said potential at the ML level like Francouer did.

“But this talk about him being a throw in player on a deal or flat out non-tendering him just seems ridiculous”

We were on the verge of possibly having to DFA Felix Pie before dumping him for similarly dumped out-of-option Garret Olsen (to ensure we get something for him) who we packaged with Ronny Cedeno to get a whopping Aaron Heilman, but you think its ridiculous to think the team might just give Jake Fox away? Fox holds less value then Pie and probably about as much as Cedeno, but Pie only brought Olsen and Pie + Cedeno merely ended up in Heilman – a borderline value middle reliever.

Out of option borderline corner types get DFAed/non-tendered all the time, especially when they are over the age of 25 with no real ML experience. Players like that just arent that hard to come by. Tim has guys like Wang, Genks and Garko as non-tender types. Shoot, David Ortiz was non-tendered for being a slugging no-position guy, and he actually had already hit 20 HR in a ML season.

Are the red sox involved in this?

i'd be interested to see a major leaguer that couldn't play a handful of positions with mediocrity...maybe david wells?

suzy, why do you keep saying that fox is a possible non-tender candidate? there is absolutely no way they non-tender him. The guy has 100 rbi posibilities with regular playing time, you dont just cut a guy like that.

Posted by: Sabinus | November 13, 2009 at 02:07 PM"

THANK YOU!!!

Posted by: CubsFan25 | November 13, 2009 at 02:08 PM

Great now there are two complete idiots on this site.

I think the Angels can afford to take some chances. I would not make a trade for Granderson though unless it involved Matthews.

And for those of you that think a lot of cash would have to be involved, I don't think that is true. Angels have one bad contract they need to get out of the Tigers have a couple.

Give up Matthews and Wood or Napoli for Granderson and one of the over payed Detroit pitchers who haven't lived up to expectations(Robertson, Willis, Bonderman).

I think I would rather see him start in left too.

Fox could be the next Adam Dunn, strikes out a lot, didn't take that many walks, but whatever, and with regular playing time, I think he could hit 25-30 HRs and drive in 100+ runs.

He's not a bad defender, he just hasn't had enough experience, and he can play the corner spots in the OF and IF, and he can play C in an emergency. You just don't cut a player like that.

Posted by: CubsFan25 | November 13, 2009 at 03:08 PM

Are you drunk, high, or both?

I think the Yankees will become big players if perhaps Damon doesnt resign with the team; In which case, what type of package do you think it would cost the Yanks to nab Curtis

Now I've heard everything. We just watched the Phillies make a trade this year for the reigning Cy Young Award winner without giving up any of their elite prospects, and everyone on here thinks that the Cubs have to give up everyone to get a guy who 1) hit .249 last year; 2) can't hit lefties and is essentially a platoon player; 3) is mediocre defensively; 4) has a lot of money coming to him that the Cubs would have to take on; and 5) had a lower OBP than Sam Fuld.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't go after Granderson. I think he'd be great in CF for the Cubs. I'm just saying that all of you who have been saying that we have to give up Vitters, Cashner, Jackson, and company for him are complete pinheads. There is absolutely no reason why the Cubs should be required to give up their top picks from the past three years (or even two of them). To those of you who suggested this, are you out of your minds? Who are we going after, Roy Holliday?

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up overpaying for him though, if we look at Hendry's track record during the past year. I have absolutely NO confidence in Cubs management making a smart deal here.

If it takes a little bit more money from the Ricketts, they should stretch the budget a little bit. Hopefully they really do care about winning.

The Cubs need to do the following, as quickly as possible:
1. Trade Bradley to the Rangers for Kevin Millwood, or work out a three way deal which would give Bradley to the Rays and Burrell to the Rangers.
2. Trade for Curtis Granderson.
3. Stop being cheap and re-sign Reed Johnson.
4. Admit they were wrong and sign Mark DeRosa.
5. Work out a trade with the Indians for Kerry Wood while asking them to pay some of his salary. We need more quality arms in the bullpen and he has the best stuff of anyone besides possibly Marmol.

This team has so many available fixes, if they would stop being cheap and stop making so many bad decisions.

To everyone above making dumb trade proposals for Granderson where we give up everyone in our farm system along with Jake Fox: PLEASE STOP IT.

Keep up the great work, everyone!

Are the red sox involved in this?

"No there not for the first time on this site its really wired. But dont u think they already have a speedy leadoff type CF guy in Elsbury?"
ya i thought granderson would be a backup plan to the red sox if they didn't sign bay. Besides they may put elsbury in a blockbuster deal.

For those of you who think Detroit will do any kind of deal that includes Matthews, Dream on. That being said, Granderson seems to me like he'd greatly benefit from joining the Angels. His plate discipline and running game could both improve with a little Halo guidance. His salary is very reasonable considering his upside.

If I were Reagins, I'd offer Napoli, Wood, and a pitcher TBNL (maybe O'Sullivan). Napoli has shown flashes of brilliance and I can't help but love the guy, but realistically Mathis is a better catcher and showed during the postseason that he has at least some offensive potential. This may be the time to sell high on Nap, and Wood is a lost cause so they can have him.