Jays Looking For Quality Over Quantity In Any Halladay Deal

Maybe if he wins Cy Young they can get even more than they could in the summer considering that would mean he WAS the best pitcher, even in the hardest division... Just a thought.

I would hope they would want quality over quantity. Their new GM should be ran out of town if they just went with quantity

Could you imagine a Phillie rotation with Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, and Cole Hamels? That would be fun to watch.

Can you imagine a Brave rotation with Roy Halladay Javy Vazquez, Tim Hudson, Jair Jurrjens, and Tommy Hanson? Even better... lol.

I still believe strongly that Roy will still be a Jay in April, he will pitch till the deadline then we will see. Teams will throw their firstborns at Roy then if there team needs a starter

I'm surprised to keep reading that Halladay's value has dropped significantly now that teams would be just getting one year of his services, therefore they wouldn't give up more than one quality prospect for him.

This is not true, any team that would acquire Halladay is also getting two 1st round draft choices, a significant fact that should not be overlooked. Those two picks alone has the value of at least one quality prospect.

That is a horrible deal for a one year rental. Toronto would be lucky to get just Buchholz. Toronto F'd themselves(well actually JP did) when they didn't deal him this summer. The return on him is probably going to be 50-60% of what they could have gotten.

To be honest I thought what J.P. was asking from the phillies was pretty decent. I mean that same deal went to Cleveland for Cliff Lee and I just dont see that deal working out for the tribe. Carrassco is overrated. He had like an ERA in the 6's down in AAA and Jason Knapp is recovering from a brutual injury. Roy Hallada is one of a kind and the price better be high if the jays trade him. He is probably the second best pitcher ever to pitch for the jays..

"...it may make sense for the club to deal Halladay and spend in other areas."
No it wouldn't. Halladay's contract has about $25M in surplus value. If you can get even close to that doing something else, you should do BOTH things.

Buchholtz for 1 year of Halladay and two 1st round draft choices. You think that the Jays would be lucky to get this return?

Good thing you're not a GM

Braves are more than set; no point in even bringing them up here. The Rangers have the pieces, but probably not the $ to lock him up. The best fit is still Boston. They've got the prospects as well as MLB ready pitching. They've got the $. And they know they're going to have to do something dramatic to compete with NY.

Am I really going to have to kick out the first non-sarcastic awful trade proposal in here? Darn.

Although the Phillies are in the discussion, I do believe that Halladay (unforunately) goes within the division to either the Red Sox or the Yankees.

For the Yankees, a possible trade for Halladay could be...

AJax/Kennedy/McAllister/Venditte (for shits and giggles)

Now before you rip on me, know that I'm not a Yankee fan nor do I know how much the Yankee fans value those prospects. Be kind.

The Blue Jays get Jackson and Kennedy, who can both start right now and McAllister, a AA pitcher with good size and velocity and a very high ceiling.

Venditte was just thrown in place of what should be a PTBNL, which should be an A-ball player with a high ceiling as well.

Just to add:

There is NO proposed deal on the table that would guarantee the Jays' future success.

And there is no guarantee that, say, Drabek, Taylor and Brown guarantee the Phillies' future success.

The ONE guarantee on the table is that adding Doc to the frontline of a decent team WILL make them strong contenders for a WS spot.

That is worth paying for. If the positions were reversed, I'd do whatever it takes to get Halladay. Pat Gillick had it right.

To be honest the Bo-Sox should keep their prospects and not worry about Halladay.

Yankees are going to dominate next year anyways so whats the point of trying?

Especially if they sign Lackey ! and Cameron to play center. Domination all over again.

Though it is cute to think anyone else has a chance.

That said I hope Halladay does go to the NL. The Jays just need some building pieces and a few upside guys to go with all the draft picks they will have this year and Antholopoulos's new commitment to signing them.

Halladay in the NL would be SCARY ! He would decimate most lineup and be a def Cy young contender, sorry Timmy.

Theordore,

Get your reasoned and rational arguments out of here - were not in the buisness of making cents, but dollars.

Though a great point, as well as a point well made.

TwinRoyals,

The Blue Jays would hang up on Cashman in a heartbeat. Kennedy was injured all year after struggling. AJax looks like a solid regular, not a star. Montero and Hughes or Chamberlain would definitely be required.

Trusting the Process,

No one is saying Greinke didn't have a great year, and it's not East Coast bias to say the AL East has three of the top offenses in baseball, and that Greinke had an easier time by not facing them.

Since when is giving up the farm for one year of a great starting pitcher a guarantee to win? Do we really need to go down the list of pitchers who were great and then suffered an injury or ineffectiveness. Halladay is awesome but he carries a fair amount of risk.

As for the draft picks - you get less than a 50/50 chance that you will receive 2 first round picks for the guys.

If a team with a protected pick gets him you get one sandwich pick and one 2nd round pick. Then there is the possibility that he could sign with a team that has already signed another Type A that is ranked higher. Think it can't happen - ask the Brewers about that. They landed a sandwich pick and a late 2nd rounder for CC last year. Or remember the Jays own history - how has that 3rd round pick for type A pitcher, AJ Burnett, turning out.

How about him in a 4 way Trade?
The Mets get him to be in front of Santana and Overbay to play 1B.
The Blue Jays get Bradley to be DH/RF,Nick Evans to be LF/1B,Marte future 3B or 1B,Pelfrey-Starter,Holt-Starter,Purnell-Bullpen and Castillo 2B with Hill moving back to SS
Cubs get BJ Upton to play 2b intill Castro's ready then to CF
Rays get Koyie Hill to Catcher,League to Close

"Since when is giving up the farm for one year of a great starting pitcher a guarantee to win? Do we really need to go down the list of pitchers who were great and then suffered an injury or ineffectiveness. Halladay is awesome but he carries a fair amount of risk."

Once again, the point is being missed.

The is no such thing as GUARANTEED SUCCESS in baseball. All you can do is put the best lineup on the field that you can. The Yankees bought the talent this season and crushed it. If the Phillies had taken Halladay AND Lee instead of 'protecting the farm', they would have had a much finer shot at doing the double (and the treble in 2010)

Any team 'interested' in Halladay is welcome to keep their prospects if they wish. Trust me - if I had the choice of inking Halladay to a five year extension OR taking the top three prospects from any farm...I'd keep Halladay. He is so much more than just a win machine - he is a franchise face, a mentor to younger pitchers, a role model to the team, and the 'right kind' of baseball player.

We're only talking trades because Halladay wants to leave. Let's not pretend for a moment that the Jays or the fans are the ones who want this. We'd all much rather keep him, so you can understand why we roll our eyes when other fans are reluctant to talk about their top prospects in return for the world's best pitcher...

"How about him in a 4 way Trade?
The Mets get him to be in front of Santana and Overbay to play 1B.
The Blue Jays get Bradley to be DH/RF,Nick Evans to be LF/1B,Marte future 3B or 1B,Pelfrey-Starter,Holt-Starter,Purnell-Bullpen and Castillo 2B with Hill moving back to SS
Cubs get BJ Upton to play 2b intill Castro's ready then to CF
Rays get Koyie Hill to Catcher,League to Close"

Posted by: Matt Galvin | November 10, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Are you really that stupid? What did the Jays do to deserve 3 awful contracts after giving up Roy Halladay and Lyle Overbay? Let me guess....Mets fan? I thought so. That would never EVER happen in a million years.

"How about him in a 4 way Trade?
The Mets get him to be in front of Santana and Overbay to play 1B.
The Blue Jays get Bradley to be DH/RF,Nick Evans to be LF/1B,Marte future 3B or 1B,Pelfrey-Starter,Holt-Starter,Purnell-Bullpen and Castillo 2B with Hill moving back to SS
Cubs get BJ Upton to play 2b intill Castro's ready then to CF
Rays get Koyie Hill to Catcher,League to Close"
Posted by: Matt Galvin

I have to ask: do you read MLBTR? The Blue Jays have made it very clear that if they move Halladay, they want QUALITY not quantity in return and, they want no part of Milton Bradley!

One of the silliest trade ever proposed on this site . . . Mets get Halladay - the guy nearly every other team wants and a starting 1B as well - without giving up anyone of high value and the Blue Jays get two very expensive, aging players who cost more than Halladay. Yeah, right.

"I mean that same deal went to Cleveland for Cliff Lee and I just dont see that deal working out for the tribe."

it was not even close to the same deal. we robbed cleveland in that deal. economically the tribe saw no real way to keep lee past his option year/free agency and the phils took advantage. all these names you keep hearing--happ, drabek, taylor, brown, gose, etc. are all A-prospects that were, in some combination, considered in roy halladay deal at the trade deadline. the guys that went to cleveland--knapp, carrasco, donald and i cant even think of the fourth--were not at the level of the previous guys mentioned. believe me, i wanted halladay at the deadline in the worst way. but the cliff lee deal was much more valuable in terms of what we got versus what we gave up.

and call me crazy, but i really dont see halladay going to an AL east bigshot. if he wants to play on a contending team he can go to the phils, dodgers, mets, cubs, cards--money permitting.

worldchamps08: i like ur take on things here. but beltre, if he comes here, which i think u and i would both like to see, is going to be 10mil a year for 3years option 4th. i also think victorino might be a guy shuffled around this offseason, since he has no current contract and played himself into a starting CF position.

jrollpatrol2008,

Funny thing is that when Doc was on the trading block a few months back, all the Phillies fans were trying to push the likes of Donald, Knapp and Carrasco onto us.

"We'll give you Happ, Brown, Donald and Carrasco. That's fair"

We didn't want the trash. And we took criticism for it.

For all Ricciardi's faults, I thank Christ that he didn't succumb to such a deal. People may say the Jays are in a weaker bargaining position now, but I don't believe that. At least now teams know what's expected from them...and there's more of 'em to deal with.

Okay Bradley to the Mets with Overbay heading to the Cubs and Aybar heading to the Cubs to.
Cubs then could the trade Overbay to the Giants for Zito and so on and Lee to the Tigers for Inge,Willis,Ordonez.

I like the Florida
Teams,Cardinals and anybody else then the Yankees.

The Dodgers have that much more to trade than the Mets do? Don't get me wrong, the Dodgers farm system has done a great job, and they have better young major league talent, but they're not going to trade any of it to get Halladay. If you take Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp, and Martin off the trade table, what exactly are the Dodgers going to trade that the Blue Jays want for Halladay? The young, raw Gordon? The lower upside McDonald? Corner infielders without much power or middle infielders with positional issues? It suddenly starts to sound like Mets trade chips.

"Just to add (again): Halladay is that increasingly-rare breed of man to show loyalty to those who back him. "One year rental" is a term that gets banded about a lot, but any Jays fan will tell you that the chances of Halladay signing an extension would be darn good."

It doesn't really matter. Once a player becomes market value, he really offers the team no advantage. Signing a SS with a WAR of 6 that you really need doesn't differ materially from signing an SP with a WAR of 6 for the same amount. Depending on the price, a lot of teams would be better off waiting for him to hit the market.

Doc should command at least as much as bedard did! Only way he gets moved is for something like Taylor, Drabek and Brown + one more. That is what it should and will take to get him. I realize every fan thinks this is just a one year deal, but you get freaking Halladay and two picks if he leaves. The package has to be worth at least that amount. That means Bucholtz, Bowden and one or more of westmoreland, Kalish, or Reddick for the Sox. If you don't get that Jays should hold onto him and get the picks.

Lets look at this.Halladay
is 34,will he be the same player in 3-4 years?The longer the Jays wait to trade him the less they will get.When they do trade
him will they give that team a chance to sign him to a longer contract?They wouldn't let any team sign him to a longer contract this yeaar when they were talking to different teams.If not then your taking a very big risk to gave up your best minor league players for a 1 year or mid season rental.Big risk to take if you are a GM.

theodore,

lets face it. players play the game to win a championship. we all like to think our favorite players display some sort of loyalty, but that is not always the case. halladay, however, seems to be a competitive guy who wants to play on a perennial contender. more teams fit that discription than the yankees and redsox. if/when he leaves toronto, i dont see how he would go to the division rivals rather than come to the national league and have the chance to destroy yanks/red sox in a world series. halladay seems to me like the kind of guy that would rather play against the AL bigshots rather than team up with them. especially if money isnt the deciding factor for Roy, then i think he should come to the nl and help lead a team to the playoffs and beyond.

"Doc should command at least as much as bedard did! Only way he gets moved is for something like Taylor, Drabek and Brown + one more. That is what it should and will take to get him. I realize every fan thinks this is just a one year deal, but you get freaking Halladay and two picks if he leaves. The package has to be worth at least that amount. That means Bucholtz, Bowden and one or more of westmoreland, Kalish, or Reddick for the Sox. If you don't get that Jays should hold onto him and get the picks."

If the BJs hold out for that, it's a lose/lose proposition. Buchholz is better than the two draft picks, and Drabek and Taylor possibly each better than the two picks. Holding onto Halladay rather than trading him means you just spent $15M you don't have, and have two draft picks worth less than the top player of either deal.