Phillies' Third Base Targets

Beltre still makes the most sense, and I'd only bring on Polanco or DeRosa as bench insurance in a perfect world.

Of course, that won't happen. We'll probably end up bringing back Feliz or signing Melvin Mora or some other dumb move.

Seriously? Polanco didn't fail as a Phillie. He was expendable because of the emergence of Chase Utley.

PLEASE no Polanco or Mora. Please... Sign DeRosa cheaply for a bench bat and sign Beltre for the starting hot corner.

I really like the idea of bring Polanco back, as well as signing Derosa. I would rather have the more versatile player (Derosa) coming off the bench to be able to spell the starters, which is a real need for this team. However I think Derosa will land a starting job somewhere. If we don't resign Feliz I'd be satisfied with Polanco at 3rd

"Polanco already failed here."
Now that's just plain stupid.
Polanco led BOTH leagues in batting in 2005, but didn't have enough plate appearances in either league to qualify for the batting title.
The guy is a stud. He's the best contact hitter in the game, the toughest to strike out in most seasons, moves a runner better than anyone, hit .330 with runners on base every year, and is the steadiest defender you can find. He doesn't add a lot of BB's to his hit total, and he isn't Babe Ruth, but he's a solid ball player, and would be a big time upgrade over Feliz.
If the Phils do sign Polanco, I hope they do so before December 1st, because the Tigers have a GM that is dumb enough to not offer him arbitration, for fear that he'd have to pay him a reasonable wage. Polanco is a Type A free agent, and the Tigers could use the draft pick that our GM would rather leave on the table.

"I have no idea why the Phils wouldn't kill three birds with one stone..."

It's all about supply and demand allaboutthe phils.. 4-5 teams will be looking at Figgins and can see a bidding war looming, no idea why, he is going to be 32YO next year, wanting 4+ years and his game is speed, which is going to be just how good about year 3 onwards of that deal? It just seems far safer to go with the best defensive third basemen in the game, Adrian Beltre, who should find his long lost power stroke in Philly and be looking for 2-3 years (and cheaper) than Figgins.

I'm still hoping DD will offer Polanco arbitration and he takes it. Nothing like taking out your second best batter for a total rookie in an already struggling lineup.

Polanco isn't what the Phils need. They should definitely take Beltre over Figgins. Look at what Ibanez did after coming over from Seattle. Who's to say Beltre wouldn't find similar success. The Phillies game is big home runs with a little speed mixed in. Stick to it. Plus the guy plays a wicked 3B.

Posted by: BaseballFan0707 | November 12, 2009 at 01:11 PM"

They need Polanco more than Beltre. Victorino can move to lead off, Polanco in the 2 hole. Rollins hitting 7th..

@vtadave
Those are some pretty nice stats. But how many years ago was that? Has your mom brought your lunch to you down in the basement yet?

"@vtadave
Those are some pretty nice stats. But how many years ago was that? Has your mom brought your lunch to you down in the basement yet?

Posted by: Harangody's hang time | November 12, 2009 at 01:22 PM"

Mad? because you can't take 2 seconds and look up some stats?

Polanco has done nothing but hit and play a damn good Defense since leaving Philly.

They need Polanco more than Beltre. Victorino can move to lead off, Polanco in the 2 hole. Rollins hitting 7th..

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 01:17 PM

Finally someone else who realizes that Rollins should slide to the 7 hole with Victorino leading off. Victorino would have a .370 OBP easy if he didn't constantly come up to the plate with 1 out and get antsy trying to make up for Rollins not getting on base.

I agree Beltre signing needs to get done. He'll get back to hitting 30+ bombs in Philly, plays better defense than Pedro and he's RH and hits lefties well. We don't need another switch hitter or LH bat. This is what the lineup should look like next year

Victorino
Utley
Werth
Howard
Beltre
Ibanez
Rollins
Ruiz

Makes for a much better balance than they had last year and your 1-3 hitters all will have high OBPs and see alot of pitches.

i love it. finally some more fans on board with beltre. i do think his offensive power will be resurrected in philly. the availability of 3base options for the phils should be a good bargaining chip for them and bring down beltre's price. also his injury last season might make some teams hesitant to go out and pay for him. the seattle-to-philly connection has already been made, but its a great point. i could see a guy like beltre being REAL productive in this lineup! --dont know about that exact order jman1984--but def those players would present problems for opposing pitchers. j roll could start off on fire, high obp, scoring runs, and stay in the number 1 spot.

figgins will be overpaid somewhere, since he is generally considered the top 3rd base FA. i hope the phils do not fall into a bidding war for this guy. he would definitely impact the offense, possibly in more ways than beltre, but i do not think he is going to be worth the contract he will probably get.

derosa/polanco, although mid-30s, will probably find starting jobs somewhere. derosa as the 'ultimate backup utility guy' sounds all fine and good, but he is good enough to start on a mediocre team--not backup players on the phils. i wouldnt mind gettin polanco to play 3rd, but only if ruben is really, really concerned about finances for the offseason. 1-2 years cheap contract with polanco, who has better defense than feliz and beltre, would allow finances towards pitching......

bottom line--i really hope beltre can come in at a multiyear deal. get it done ruben

Figgins is too expensive, though he'd be great.

Beltre would be great if he can be had for a decent number.

I'd have NO problem with Polanco coming back. He's a gamer, perfect in the clubhouse, and left Philly on good terms. Beltre may bring more pop, but there's nothing wrong with adding some contact-hitting with all the Phils' sluggers. Quite a few fans (including myself) wanted to see him move to 3rd when Utley emerged.

Utley's OBP last year .397. Werth's was .373. But you're not allowed to let "sluggers" bat higher than 3rd in the lineup, because it makes Tim McCarver cry.

Adrian, for as great as he has been touted defensively, had the 3rd worst zone rating and fielding percentage, not just in the AL, but in baseball for 3rd baseman...

allaboutthephils, Beltre played injured last year. Look at his body of work, not one season. He's been a consistently good to great fielder who hits for power despite playing all of his home games in a bad (Dodger Stadium) or horrible (Safeco) hitter's park. He's also a year younger than Figgins and, in part because of the seasons that they each produced last year, he should come cheaper and probably for fewer years.

Adrian, for as great as he has been touted defensively, had the 3rd worst zone rating and fielding percentage, not just in the AL, but in baseball for 3rd baseman...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 04:02 PM

In 2009, despite playing injured, Beltre was 3rd among MLB 3B's in range factor and he led MLB 3B's in UZR/150, which is one of the, if not the, most widely accepted fielding metrics. However, I will admit that I'm not sure how to explain the difference between ZR and UZR or UZR/150.

dont get me wrong--figgins would be a great addition to any offense because of his obp. thats obvious. however, his game is predicated on speed. At 32 years old, im not real excited about seein him in a 5yr 50 mil deal. As he leads the FA market for 3basemen, that is the deal he probably will get.

Very little chance Figgins gets that much... There are too many options out there for 3rd baseman... We saw this last year for outfielders... What happened to Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell and Adam Dunn ??? I'm not saying that Figgins will end up like those guys, but Ibanez and Bradley didn't get max value for their seasons because GMs could have settled for other, cheaper options... Same with this market on third baseman...

After Ibanez and Bradley got 3@30MM below market deals... The rest were left to scrounge for whatever other team would sign them... It's looking like that might happen this year...

Figgins will not get more than 4 years, if he gets that... It will probably be 3@30 or 33...

over the next, say, 3 years, adrian beltre has a greater potential to be hittin more homeruns and drivin in rbi than figgins or feliz. the phillies were the highest scoring offense last year, so even though jimmy could/should have done much better, they still were the best offensive team with his struggles. add beltres power bat for the right price and you will get incredible production out of the 6-7 hole.

Unfortunately,

Jimmy's time for leading off has come and gone... Vic doesn't get on enough to lead off... Jimmy hasn't had a productive year since 07 and it doesn't look like he is going to rekindle that magic any time soon... His glove is what keeps him in the lineup and makes him worth his weight in gold...

“In 2009, despite playing injured, Beltre was 3rd among MLB 3B's in range factor and he led MLB 3B's in UZR/150, which is one of the, if not the, most widely accepted fielding metrics. However, I will admit that I'm not sure how to explain the difference between ZR and UZR or UZR/150.”

UZR is basically Fielding runs over average, where UZR/150 is Fielding Runs over Average if given 150 Games

Now, compare three players

23.7 UZR, 9.7 UZR/150 for Beltre (403 Games)
33.3 UZR, 12.1 UZR/150 for Feliz (440 Games)
21.1 UZR, 10.4 UZR/150 for Figgins (389 Games)

So to everyone pushing Beltre,

Its fine to say you want Beltre over Feliz because of Beltre having a better bat at this point. But don’t say its because he is a superior fielder. He is probably the worst fielder of the 3 at this point in his career (that is only saying that all three are well above average at 3rd but he is the lowest).

And since Figgins is a superior hitter (by roughly 20 Runs, or 2 WAR over the last 3 season at nearly the same amount of PA), he is the superior overall option if price isnt that different. Figgins is just superior in every way, and fits better into a lineup (as where do you really bat a no-OBP fair-SLG hitter? Maybe 7th on a NL club?) You only realistically target Beltre if Figgins is going to cost 5+ million more and you just cant afford it.

why am i the only one that want figgins? if we dont get figgins i want Beltre

they can get scutaro to play 3B, but i cant realy see that

lowell sucks...hes too old and is making 12 mil on the r sox. the phils are not dumb enough to offer him anything close to that. the phils wanted him before feliz when he had some left in the tank...now though, waste of time.