Odds & Ends: Angels, Willis, Oswalt, Jones

Memorial Day linkage, as Ubaldo Jimenez continues to amaze…


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27 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Angels, Willis, Oswalt, Jones"


aap212
5 years 2 months ago

As a Mets fan, I’m bitter at the Mets about how they handled Heath Bell too.

I wouldn’t be bitter about a free copy of Sugar, though. Great, under-seen baseball movie.

icedrake523
5 years 2 months ago

Heath Bell was given chances as a Met. He was constantly butting heads with Rick Peterson who wanted him to change his mechanics. Bell thought he was doing it because he wasn’t drafted (even though Aaron Heilman was a 1st round pick and changed his). He was never going to succeed here.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

He was barely given a hundred innings in the big league bullpen as a Met, even when they had terrible pitching shortages and he was destroying the minors. He was mostly given low leverage innings, and his peripherals were phenomenal. He didn’t need fixing. He needed to be left alone. It’s not an accident he was great the second he left New York. He was striking out about a guy an inning when the Mets let him pitch, and his walk and homer rates were very reasonable. I like Rick Peterson, but he was wrong about Kazmir and Zambrano, too. Bell didn’t need fixing. He needed an opportunity.

icedrake523
5 years 2 months ago

He was terrible when he was given 46 innings in 2005 and it didn’t change in 2006. He didn’t pitch well in AAA until 2005 and 2006, the same years he was terrible in the majors.

Peterson wanted to change his mechanics because his were putting him at risk for an injury. When he was with the Mets, there were very few pitching injuries. I think the only 2 goods were Sanchez (taxi cab accident) and Pedro (damaged goods). Look at what happened the first full season he’s gone.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

1) He pitched well in Triple-A in 2004.
2) He put up massive strikeout totals at every level, including his “struggles” in the majors, when he also wasn’t walking many people or giving up many homers. He was hit unlucky.
3) Peterson did a lot of good, but he also helped inspire the Mets to dump Kazmir. Just because you think a guy’s mechanics will cause trouble down the road doesn’t mean you should dump him for pennies on the dollar when he can contribute a lot before his arm falls off. Bell did nothing but strike guys out his whole career with the Mets. If they’d given him enough time for his hit rate to come down, it would have.

icedrake523
5 years 2 months ago

1) True.
2) Strikeouts are important but there is a lot more to pitching than getting strikeouts. Namely not giving up runs. Something Bell couldn’t do in the majors.
3) Peterson never wanted to dump Kazmir. He wanted Zambrano as a project. John Franco was whining about Kazmir playing the music loud in the locker room and Al Leiter wanted him gone because the Mets definitely wouldn’t have re-signed him if they kept Kazmir. Franco and Leiter had a lot of influence (they got Valentine fired), so Jim Duquette traded his perceived “problem child” for a guy his pitching coach wanted as a project. Peterson never said “I can fix Zambrano in 10 min…” until after the trade.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

If you strike a lot of guys out, don’t walk very many people, and don’t give up many home runs, you won’t give up too many runs if given enough innings. He’s helped by Petco, but he would have been fine in Shea or Citi. He had all the components of a pitcher that doesn’t give up runs, and the Mets were not pitching rich enough to not give him that chance.

On the Kazmir front, I’m familiar with that story and fully dislike Leiter and Franco for it. Isn’t the point of a good veteran influence in the clubhouse that you help round out the rough edges on a talented young player with immaturity issues, not chasing him out of town? F those guys.

j6takish
5 years 2 months ago

Seattle should pick up D-Train to DH for them

bannister19
5 years 2 months ago

The only people who truly believe Dayton is the worst G.M. in Baseball are the FanGraphs crew, maybe Joe Posnaski, and the rest of the born to hate writers out there. They make a big deal about minor moves, they write book long essays about Brian Anderson and his OPS+, and so on. They ignore most of his moves and they ignore the facts.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

Signing Jose Guillen, Kyle Farnsworth, Gil Meche, and Juan Cruz, trading for Mike Jacobs, demoting and moving Alex Gordon, blocking Kila, dragging his feet on Butler playing full time in the majors. These are not minor moves.

bannister19
5 years 2 months ago

1. Gil Meche. The work that he gave us through the first half of his contract (two and a half years) was incredible, and worth the money. Though 11 is still a lot, he pitched 86 consecutive great starts, going 510.1IP, 212ER, 406K [3.74 ERA, 7.2K/9], while having the most starts out of every pitcher in the game through that time, and being the most liked player in the team.

2. Juan Cruz. He was one of the best relief pitchers on the market, but his Type A drove people away. Considering we lost Leo and Ramon, he seemed like a great replacement. Obviously, he wasn’t. Always had a shaky walk rate, but you can hardly blame the general manager for his 180.

3. Demoting/Moving Alex Gordon. Lets see: Alex Gordon can’t play third for shit. Alex Gordon so far can’t hit major league pitching too good. The first demotion was so it would delay his free agency, a move most people would make in a team that won’t compete, won’t be much better with him, and he isn’t producing at this point. The current demotion is so he can play left field, which he has been every day in Omaha. He was nothing better than a bottom 5 defensive 3b, so moving him won’t hurt, considering we have no outfielders, and 3B is taken up by Callapso, Fields, and soon Moustakas.

4. Billy Butler. He’s improved, but he’s still a below avearge 1b, and this year he’s been dumber than rocks at 1B. He won’t be at 1B too much longer. Hosmer will most likely take over in the future. Not like his production in 08 made him much worthy for 1B rather than DH. He played mostly full time nevertheless.

5. Kila. Tough one, but prior to the Gullien signing Kila didn’t deserve a promotion. He deserved to DH instead of signing Jacobs though. Probably the main negative along with the Gullien signing that Moore has done. The Jacobs trade itself wasn’t all that bad besides the fact that he blocked Kila. Anyways, he said it himself Kila will have a big part in the future — the only person he mentioned when he asked what players will remain with the Royals in the future.

6. Farnsworth. I don’t think anyone liked the multi year contract. Hopefully he’s learned about them (With the worst bullpen ERA in 09 he didnt sign anyone major this off-season, and now the bullpen has been pretty good, especially since Yost took over). Can’t defend the signing, but the best I can say is he’s been the best arm in the pen all of this year.

Nothing to say about Gullien — his worst move by far.

He doesn’t deserve a Best G.M. award for the couple of things, but besides the fact that those moves are almost two year old, you and most people ignore the bigger moves.
Billy Buckner for Alberto Callapso. Burgos for Bannister. Teahan for Getz & Fields. Even Angel Berroa for Juan Rivera.

He got half-market value multi-year deals for Zack Greinke and Joakim Soria. Soria could fetch at least a good 8MM in an open market while making 3MM and under contract with options to 2014. Greinke will be hitting a good 15-20M, while making 9.

Signed one of the best international free agents, often said 2nd to Chapman.

Almost every source names the Royals farm system top 10 now. It was 24th when Dayton took over. We’ve been the 2nd biggest spenders in the draft, behind the Pirates. We’ve been one of the most active international scouting clubs around. And hell, we’re ranked around 10th only because Hosmer and Moustakes had down years last year. They’re both tearing up the minors this year, hitting top 10 in most categories, and people like Keith Law have said if those two gets hot, it’s easily a top 5 system.

He’s not as bad as it seems.

vtadave
5 years 2 months ago

Wow…yeah Moore isn’t the worst GM in the game (hello Ed Wade), but he’s right there. Interesting to see someone actually defend what he’s done in the four years there.

Don’t forget:

Drafting Luke Hochevar over Lincecum, Longoria, and Kershaw
2 years for JASON KENDALL
Trading Jorge De La Rosa for nothing
Leo Nunez – Mike Jacobs
Cortes for the worst SS in baseball factoring in $$$, Yuniesky Betancourt

Sorry man, but if part of your defense is that he dealt for Brian Bannister and Mark Teahen, it’s a flimsy defense at best.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

Meche was still a bad signing because it was an expensive win-now move for a team that no one could reasonably expect to win at the time. He pitched remarkably well at first, but it was still philosophically wrong. Same with sacrificing a second round pick for Cruz, who didn’t pitch well. I also think you’re calling the smaller moves bigger moves. Spending all that money on Guillen is much bigger than acquiring Callaspo, even though that’s a good move. Trading value for Betancourt is bigger than getting value for Aviles.

And while I admire what he’s done with the farm system, I struggle with a guy whose best move has been pumping money into the farm system, but refused to draft Wieters or Porcello for money reasons.

bannister19
5 years 2 months ago

Money is David Glass’ problem, not Daytons, but even with that said, The Royals have been the biggest spenders in the draft in the Majors, only 2nd to the Pirates over the past few years. In 2007, the Orioles didn’t have another draft pick until the 4th round. They weren’t leaving there spending much money. It’s also about what we got out of the draft, and Moustakas is still our prize. 2006 and the Baird years were the years that money was put above talent, like Luke Hochevar. Most 2007 draft rankings had Moustakes above Wieters. That’s a useless argument against Dayton.

There is no way to defend the Gullien signing, it was a bad signing. He was hired as the #1 GM-Prospect in the majors and that was one of his first moves, it was horrible. He hasn’t given out much major deals in free agency since 2007. The two relievers in 2008 were to make up for gain of speed, defense, and power in Coco and Jacobs. If you remember, the Royals were going in as a possible 500 team in 2009 with things going right — nothing went right at all, and here we are.

Also, calling it “just pumping money into a farm system” really diminishes everything. He came in with a broken ball club, a bottom 5 farm system, a bottom 5 major league roster, and nothing else working. Look at the Twins or even the Rockies as a perfect example. Ryan became GM in 1994, until 2000, their record was 457-608 (.429). Dayton is 230-308 since 2007 (.428)…From 2001 to the end of Ryan’s job, they were 619-514 (.546)..Nothing was dramatic from 2000 to 2001.

Mauer didn’t play for three years since his draft. Morneau didn’t play full-time until 2005. In 2002, they were 94-67 with one of the worst attendances in the league and a 40M payroll. 6 out of their regular 9 man lineup were homegrown players. The other 3 (Ortiz, Mohr, Guzman) weren’t drafted by the Twins, but they all made their major league debuts with the Twins, and moved through they’re system. Same with their rotation, most of them were drafted by the Twins, or acquired as a prospect and made their debuts with them.

Dayton took over a team with only Butler, Greinke, and DeJesus home-grown. Obviously signing Jose Gullien didn’t help that fact, but “spending money in the farm system” is the biggest step to the success of any GM. He had his share of good and bad trades and signings. You have to look past them. Good news is, Gullien, Kyle, Cruz, and Willie are out of the books in 2011, along with Teahan’s saved money, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens with the money saved.

aap212
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t mean pumping money into the farm system to diminish his contributions. It’s a wise philosophy and has often been done well. But every ranking had Wieters and Porcello as better than Moustakas and every report had the Royals passing on them for money reasons. They loved Moustakas, but basically everyone thought Price, Wieters, and Porcello were the top three prospects in that draft in some order.

Ian_Smell
5 years 2 months ago

Aki really needs to go. Walker has looked really good hitting this year and is just as good as Aki on defense.

Threat_Level_RedSox
5 years 2 months ago

Does any one else get that fealing Ubaldo Jimenez is going to get let up next month?
by my count he has to pitch to Arizona, Toronto, Minnasota, Boston and LAA.
Nothing against the guy he’s haveing a great season, but he’s only faced seven different team’s, Arizona, San Diego and Washington twice, Mil., LA, Atlanta, Houston, and San Fran. once. Thats four games against teams that are at Least 9 game’s under .500, 2 at .500, 3 at pitching heavy, low offense teams. , and one at LA and Atlanta. I know Mil., LA, Arizona and the braves have good offenses but faceing boston, toranto, Minnesota and LAA in a row is brutal

orioles
5 years 2 months ago

He’ll be just as dominant. The guy mixes his pitches perfectly. His ERA may have a jump, but I don’t think you’ll see a big one at all.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

any guy with a close to 1.00 ERA is sure to regress lol. But I still think he can get a sub 3.00 if he sticks to what has made him successful so far this year

grant77
5 years 2 months ago

Still don’t get the Oswalt to Washington talk. I mean, they are in last place….

hawkny1
5 years 2 months ago

Washington can help themselves a great deal more with $16m than to spend this amount of money on a fading Roy Oswalt whose best years are behind him.

5 years 2 months ago

The Pirates should hold open tryouts.

bannister19
5 years 2 months ago

You must’ve obviously not read what I said, because Brian Bannister and the Teahan trade isn’t nearly it.

Next:
He was not involved in any draft decisions for the 2006 draft. He was hired exactly four years ago today — a few days prior to the draft. All drafts in 06 were made by Baird and the previous scouting director. Not JJ and Dayton. You shouldn’t attempt to blame him for things you don’t know about it.

The two years for Jason Kendall is a moot point. He’s not being paid a hell of a lot, and he’s blocking not one solid catcher that we have beyond Low A Burlington, who has 2-4 more years to go. There was no one noticeably better in free agency this past off season, and this coming year there is no one who the Royals can sign.

I hate Yuniesky so I can’t really say much about that other than Dan Cortes wasn’t expected to do much, and he hasn’t done anything near mediocre in the Mariners system.

Jorge De La Rosa was PURE crap in Milwuakee and Kansas City. He was just as bad in Colorado for every year besides last year. We traded crap to get him, and we traded him for crap. He was worth nothing, and isn’t worth too much more at this point. His 2009 wasn’t much better posting a 4.40 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, and a disgusting 4+ BB/9. He has a career 4.66BB/9 and isn’t anything special.

Leo Nunez is not that much different than De La Rosa other than the fact he had a solid 08. His 2009 with the marlins wasn’t anything spectacular either.

But like I said, you ignored the main points about his work.

inkstainedscribe
5 years 2 months ago

Love what Ozzie said about his son: “He’s not a tools player.” Just about anyone else would translate that as: “He doesn’t have any measurable talent.”

glberns
5 years 2 months ago

Whats the dilema for the White Sox? They drafted Kenny Williams son, and he’s their GM! Doesn’t seem like they have a problem with nepetism.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

except Willis would just eat a roster spot (Sox will already have 6 starters when beckett comes back) while Lowell can still produce. The Sox need to chase a Max Ramirez again imo

bannister19
5 years 2 months ago

Haven’t had too much up in Omaha in a while. Duffy was our most advanced prospect, and would’ve probably made it to the majors around this time, but he quit baseball during the spring. But as for ‘legit’ prospects, there is at least Aaron Crow and Mike Montgomery. With a few other nice names, mostly left handers around, and the pig piece in Wil Myers..Have one of the best pitching systems in the majors. From AA on down it gets real nice.

And from the looks of it, we’re getting another lefty next week.