The Yankees’ 2011 Rotation

Continuing MLBTR's look at next season's probable and possible starting rotations, today we look at a staff that will likely be one of, if not the most, expensive in baseball.  The Yankees spent a little more than $63.5MM on their top five starters in 2010, and that total looks to go up next season.

Three spots in the rotation are secure.  C.C. Sabathia's 2.34 K/BB ratio is on pace to be his lowest since 2004 and his 3.0 BB/9 is on pace to be his highest since that same '04 season, but while these peripherals are of a minor concern when you have $115MM committed to a pitcher through 2015, Sabathia is still one of the top pitchers in the American League.

A.J. Burnett has had his typical hot-and-cold season, posting a 6.7 K/9 ratio that would be his lowest since 2001.  New York fans can expect to look forward to the Burnett rollercoaster of form for the next 3+ seasons.

Phil Hughes' first season as a regular starter got off to a tremendous start with a 2.70 ERA in April and May, though his June and July (5.34 ERA) were a different story.  The Yankees are already being cautious about their young star's innings total and have put an unofficial "Hughes Rules" cap of 170 IP on the right-hander for the rest of the season.  Hughes may be limited for the rest of 2010, but will be back in full force for next season.  He will reach arbitration for the first time this winter, so it's possible the Yankees may explore a longer-term deal to cover his arb years.

The fourth spot in the rotation will depend on the feelings of Andy Pettitte.  As he has for the last four winters, the veteran left-hander will decide on whether he wants to retire, or sign a one-year deal with the Yankees.  Pettitte can certainly still pitch — he's enjoying one of his best seasons (a 2.88 ERA, 2.37 K/BB ratio in 18 starts) though he's currently sidelined with a groin injury.  If Pettitte does return, he'll get a pay bump from the $11.75MM contract he signed last December, but the Yankees surely wouldn't mind giving a raise to a franchise stalwart that can still perform at a high level.

It's almost a certainty that Javier Vazquez won't be back with the Bronx Bombers next season.  The only question now seems to be whether the Yankees will offer arbitration to the free agent right-hander, as Vazquez is still hanging onto a Type A free agent status

Depending on what Pettitte does, at least one spot in the New York rotation is available for 2011.  It's widely expected that the Yankees will make a hard push to fill that spot with Cliff Lee when he reaches free agency this winter.  (They almost had him at the deadline had their trade with Seattle not fallen through at the eleventh hour.)  The Rangers have expressed their interest in re-signing Lee now that their ownership transfer has been settled and certainly other teams will look into the left-hander, but given that Lee will command a contract worth more than $20MM per year, it gives the Yankees the obvious advantage if things turn into a bidding war.

So if Lee (or another free agent starter) replaces Vazquez and Pettitte returns, New York is set.  If Pettitte retires, then he will likely let the Yankees know early in the offseason so the club can plan accordingly.  With the Bombers' big payroll, there's really no shortage of options for what they could do to fill that fifth spot in the rotation.  Free agents with AL East experience like Bronson Arroyo or Ted Lilly could be of interest, or perhaps the Yankees could go after a veteran with something to prove coming off an injury (i.e. Brandon Webb or Aaron Harang) who could be had at a small discount.

With Alex Rodriguez going on the DL today, 23-year-old Ivan Nova has been called up and will be inserted into the rotation for at least one start.  Nova has had an impressive year at Triple-A Scranton, posting a 2.86 ERA and 2.4 K/BB ratio in 23 starts.  If Nova does well in his late-season audition he could get a chance at more work in September should Hughes get shut down or have a turn skipped.  It's hard to see Nova or any other young starter, however, be given a clear shot at a rotation spot next year since the Yankees don't really have any starting prospects who aren't at least a year away from serious consideration.

Sergio Mitre and Dustin Moseley have made spot starts for New York this season and could be re-signed to provide rotation depth for 2011.  Both men are definitely backup options and could also be replaced by similar low-cost veteran pitchers that can alternate between the rotation and the bullpen as the situation warrants.


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168 Comments on "The Yankees’ 2011 Rotation"


Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

There has to at least be a 50% chance that Cliff Lee wears pinstripes…

Sabathia
Lee
Burnett
Hughes
Nova

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

I don’t see Nova making the rotation. I see Chamberlain getting one last chance to start if they have an open spot in their rotation.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

That makes the most sense…otherwise…they are wasting Chamberlain

long_time_listener
5 years 8 days ago

No mention of Joba Chamberlain? Cashman has said that Joba’s move to the bullpen doesn’t mean he can’t return to starting. I’d say he’s a candidate.

5 years 8 days ago

If Pettitte retires? LOL, the way things are going for him, he’s lucky if he doesn’t spend his entire season next year giving testimony over the Clemens case.

dickylarue
5 years 8 days ago

It will most likely be;

CC
Lee
Hughes
Burnett
Pettitte (who won’t walk away after pitching the way he did this season)

They won’t be outbid for Lee and Lee has zero allegiance to Texas to take any kind of discount to play there. He’ll be a Yankee. He’s friends already with CC and AJ (they are from the same area) and will like the security and no trade clause the Yankees give him among other things like bags o’cash.

Pettitte isn’t going to want to walk away while Jeter, Mo and Posada are still on the team next season. He’ll come back for one last hurrah and leave the team with Posada whose contract will expire next year and who won’t be brought back. Then the “core four” will be down to Jeter & Mo depending on how long they are resigned.

With Nova, Brackman and all the other arms close to the majors, the Yankees will be secure against injuries and ineffectiveness in the rotation next year.

And Pettitte won’t get a raise. He’ll get the same contract this year under the understanding that his injury time affected his value. He won’t care. The guy just loves being a Yankee again. He loves being the elder statesman in the rotation and outside of a groin injury he was having a brilliant season. He still has the stuff.

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

“and Lee has zero allegiance to Texas to take any kind of discount to play there”Not refuting but where is your source on this one?

But overall I agree with your point. And though Yankees are obviously favorites for Lee I still think another team can sneak in and maybe make a run.

dickylarue
5 years 8 days ago

jw — Another team will have to overpay in a Zito kind of way to get Lee from the Yankees. I’m not hoping Lee to the Yanks happens, mind you, I’m just fairly certain it will happen.

The Yankees passed on Lackey to hold onto the money and flexibility for Lee. It’s the same play they made by dropping off Johan and going all in for CC.

The Yankees have sent enough messages to Lee, such as offering Montero for him, to let him know they want him badly.

That said, anything can happen and one dumb owner can throw a monkey wrench in there.

nictonjr
5 years 8 days ago

The only ‘message’ that matters is the $$$$s. Even CC used the Yankees to jack up his price. When no westcoast team came close he was a Yankee. Lee’s per season number will be higher than CCs. Too many teams that are willing to spend have money to spend, Tex, NYY and Det…

5 years 8 days ago

I have a suspicion that Lee will take a bit less per season than CC, but he’ll squeeze out a five year deal from the Yanks. There isn’t a club in the game that would not want Cliff Lee in their rotation. The Tigers have $ 75 million coming off the books, have no major arb eligible players, and only Verlander getting a $ 6 mil increase puts the slightest dent in the budget. They have a ton of money to spend, yet we all know that if the Yanks really want Lee, and they do, then that’s where he’s going.

Petite is another question. I’m not sure why this article assumes that he’ll make up his mind about retirement early in the off season. Andy has Favre-esque tendencies about retirement. He’s not coming back at a big discount. Still, he’s not going to another team, either. But if the Yanks sign Lee and Petite, after they bring back Mariano, even they will be challenged to make a run at Crawford unless they unload Swisher or Granderson. I think they’ll stick with their outfield, sign Lee, sign Petite if he doesn’t retire and maybe Lilly if he does, and make a move or two to shore up the pen and the bench.

das411
5 years 8 days ago

“There isn’t a club in the game that would not want Cliff Lee in their rotation.”

^ Ruben Amaro, the gift that keeps on giving, disagrees with this…

moonraker45
5 years 8 days ago

more people should have liked this

Bernaldo
5 years 8 days ago

It’s quite likely that Cliff Lee doesn’t see Jesus Montero as a “message” that the Yankees want him. Former Tiger and Twins pitching great Jack Morris (who now does some radio braodcasting for the Twins) pointed out last year that when you are established as a big league player and you get traded for a minor leaguer, the bottom line is that no matter how “hot” a minor leaguer is, the bottom line is that you still got traded for a minor leaguer and that’s nothing to be proud of! When you are a minor leaguer and you get traded for a major leaguer player, you can feel good about it. But when you are a well established big leaguer, being traded for a guy who’s never played in the big leagues is no badge of honor. He also pointed out that when you’ve been in the big leagues for a while, you’ve seen a lot of prospects come and go and you don’t care much about how good a prospect is because he is still just a minor leaguer until he proves he can play in the big leagues. I don’t know, but I suspect that Jesus Montero is just another minor league catcher to Cliff Lee.

4 years 11 months ago

that’s a pretty dumb assumption, you really think all major leaguers are that vain and feel that every minor league player is JUST another minor league player? All players were just-another-minor-leaguer at one point in their career, especially a guy like Lee who was a pretty mediocre player for most of his professional career.

moonraker45
5 years 8 days ago

‘one dumb owner can throw a monkey wrench in there’ so the yankees are applauded for their effort, but if anyone dare intervene or you know, compete, they are ‘dumb’

5 years 8 days ago

Funny, I’ve always thought that it was the Yankees that are the team with “one dumb owner can throw a monkey wrench in there”. They seem to be the ones that overpay just to get a player to play for them. Lee will be a Yankee, but they are going to have to back up the armored truck to get him to sign… probably starting at what Jeter is rumored to get, 4 years @ $100MM, and go from there.

5 years 8 days ago

I don’t think Jeter is worth $25 m per.. Forget about past performance, it’s what are you doing for me today! At $20m he’d be overpaid… He should realize that.

5 years 8 days ago

Funny, I’ve always thought that it was the Yankees that are the team with “one dumb owner can throw a monkey wrench in there”. They seem to be the ones that overpay just to get a player to play for them. Lee will be a Yankee, but they are going to have to back up the armored truck to get him to sign… probably starting at what Jeter is rumored to get, 4 years @ $100MM, and go from there.

redsandyanksfan
5 years 8 days ago

Did you really just say posada wont we back? He cant still hit very good and if he still wants to play he’ll be back hes just as big as Mo,Jeter, or andy

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

Since when does Lee not have allegiance to Texas.

And I have no reason to think that he hasn’t made friends with the Guzman and Borbon.

And, is friends with CC from his Indians days. Burnett doesn’t have that same alliance.

withpower
5 years 8 days ago

Cliff Lee, the guy who has worn 4 different uniforms in two seasons, has allegiance to the Texas Rangers?

He has allegiance to absolutely no one. He is going to take the highest possible offer wherever it comes from and force a no-trade clause. He has NO allegiance to anyone.

Slopeboy
5 years 8 days ago

I agree totally. He’s been moved around the last couple of years like a bad dollar bill and done nothing but win. By now he rocognizes the buisness of MLB. I cannot see him returning to Texas unless they blow everyone out of the water. Lee is a guy who usually goes 8-9 innings in every start. Why would he want to pitch in 90 degrees from May to September everytime he pitches at home?

pt_nj
5 years 8 days ago

Lee is wilting in the Texas heat. He’ll be playing somewhere else next year.

nictonjr
5 years 8 days ago

Lee: more than Sabathia’s $23 mil a year?? I’d guess yes. Something like 6/144???

Vazquez cannot be offered arbitration. He’s not getting a multi-year deal. Arb would pay him atleast twice what he’d get as a FA…

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

He has to be offered arbirtration because the Yankees said that one of the reasons they were willing to give up Vizcaino and Dunn was because of the compensation from Javy.

nictonjr
5 years 8 days ago

He accepts the Yankees don’t get any compensation unless they can trade him…

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

Right, but they can trade him and it isn’t the end of the world if he stays.

bonestock94
5 years 8 days ago

It would be pretty awful to pay 2010 Vasquez 12M. End of the world, not for the Yankees. But absolutely moronic and likely won’t happen.

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

Would be pretty good for the Red Sox if Vazquez pitches against them

bonestock94
5 years 8 days ago

Who cares about them, they’re not playoff contenders.

bjsguess
5 years 8 days ago

You are right on.

Vazquez stands to make too much money through arb. More importantly for the Yankees – they won’t want him.

Let’s say he makes $12m in arb and the Yanks have to move him. How much money do they have to eat BEFORE they even get a prospect in return?

It’s simple – if the Yanks are convinced that Vazquez will reject arb they will go for it. More likely, there will be some lingering doubts and the Yankees will follow the plan they have established for the past few years – don’t risk arb.

5 years 8 days ago

Well I guess they are already moronic since he’s making 11 mill this year & they gave up 3 solid players for him. Noway Vaz chooses to play in that hell pit next year.

5 years 8 days ago

Nope. Can’t trade a free agent that accepts arbitration until June 15. Same thing as a signed free agent.

Nicolas_C
5 years 8 days ago

Then what happened with Rafael Soriano?

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

Wrong. Rafael soriano

Ferrariman
5 years 8 days ago

he gave the Braves his approval. its basically like a temporarily NTC until June 15th.

5 years 7 days ago

Wrong. Soriano had to consent to the trade, and he did for the chance to be a closer.

vtadave
5 years 8 days ago

Avg cost of a ballpark hotdog – $8
Field level seats at Yankee Stadium – $300
Estimated 2011 Marlins payroll – $45 million
Yankees 2011 rotation with Cliff Lee – $80 million est.
Levelling the payroll landscape in Major League Baseball – priceless

5 years 8 days ago

1998 called. They want their meme back.

Vmmercan
4 years 11 months ago

How funny this comment is now that we’ve seen the Marlins’ business strategy

redsandyanksfan
5 years 8 days ago

As a reds and yankee fan i say NO to Aaron Harang , are you kidding me? he is one of the most homer prone pitchers and your wanting to put him in Nyy stadium , have in pitch in boston? no thank you at all id take javier agian over him

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

Yeah, ever since his not so decent 2008, Harang hasn’t been the same. Kind of like Zambrano, he just isn’t the ace he once was back in 06 and 07. I really only see him as a #3 or #4 now and best case scenario is Brett Myers.

redsandyanksfan
5 years 7 days ago

Ever since dusty let him pitch that 3 innings in relief at petco, But i think he would be a solid 4 in the yankees rotation , And yes Big Z really fell of a cliff with his pitching for some reason, But valid points always good talking baseball with you

5 years 8 days ago

Lee should resign with philly for cheap. Hallday lee oswalt hamels wow

redsandyanksfan
5 years 8 days ago

Thats a helluva rotation there that would be the best as long as no age catches up which there not that old and the offense to carry them which they will

Dave_Gershman
5 years 8 days ago

Why in the world would Lee sign for cheap? He has every right to make as much money as he wants.

myname_989
5 years 8 days ago

Phillies can’t afford Cliff Lee. Period.

5 years 8 days ago

The Phools should have kept him this year.

myname_989
5 years 8 days ago

Cause that has anything to do with his impending free agency, right? Troll…

alphabet_soup5
5 years 8 days ago

Lee was set to be a Philly for life then he got traded by surprise. Amaro will remember as long as he’s the Phillie’s GM what could’ve been. What more could Lee have done for them? No way he signs with them.

bjsguess
5 years 8 days ago

How different would the season be with Lee in the rotation? It was a dumb trade then and it’s a worse trade now.

moonraker45
5 years 8 days ago

and will become even worse when non of the prospects they got back for lee pan out and gose, d’arnaud and drabek all become stars

Guest
5 years 8 days ago

Wishful thinking Jays fan!

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

slow down there Toronto fan. Gose has a lot of development before he becomes even a Willy Tavarez type player. And d’arnaud has struggled.

moonraker45
5 years 7 days ago

when you don’t have playoff games, you have faith.

Nicolas_C
5 years 8 days ago

So give a discount to the team that sold on you for unimpressive prospects? No thanks you.

LifeLongYankeeFan
5 years 8 days ago

But overall I agree with your point. And though Yankees are obviously favorites for Lee I still think another team can sneak in and maybe make a run.

Oh there will be a few teams if that that will make a run at Lee Rangers one of them just because of the money he wants but I like my Yankees chances at signing him. I’m just curious if they’re gonna blow teams offers out of the water right out of the gate like they did with CC or they’ll take a Teixeira rout but with Pettitte hurt and a replacement for him needed pretty soon I think they’ll go the CC route. I also think with no disrespect to CC that the Yankees should offer him a few more million per year then CC but obviously less years because hes 2 years older then CC. His walks issued this year are freaking video game like. Unbelievable.

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

I think the Angels could be contenders if they don’t get Crawford or Werth. They could feel like they need to make a big move and a rotation that includes Weaver, Lee, and Haren would be pretty imposing. Plus they have the money to spend. I’m sure there are other teams that could make very good offers but the Angels were the first that popped into my mind.

bjsguess
5 years 8 days ago

I would love to see Lee in our rotation but no way that happens.

This off-season will be Crawford or bust. The team really doesn’t have much money coming off the books. They started at $121m this year. They are at $93m next year and that doesn’t include arb raises to Weaver, Napoli, Aybar, Morales, Callapso, Kendrick, etc, etc. The team will need to replace Fuentes (unless the plan is to pitch Rodney in the 9th).

Now, 2012 is another story. As of now payroll commitments are only $49m as Abreu, Kazmir, Pineiro, Rodney, Shields, GMJ all fall off. Just between Kazmir, Shields, and GMJ that’s about $27m in contracts that we will pay out in 2011 and receive very little in return for it.

My guess is that the Angels going after Crawford will be a move that is an exception to the budget. They realize that 2011’s budget may be way over but by 2012 the budget can stabilize. Beyond that, 2013 the team is committed to only $4.5m. By way of comparison the Red Sox have $58m, Yanks have $95m, and the Phils have $57m already committed to 2013. I bring that up only to point out that if the Angels manage payroll effectively in this off-season and next, they could be in a great long-term position to make any movies they would like.

5 years 8 days ago

The Angels have $ 92 mil committed, and that does not include Fuentes option, does not include ten, that’s TEN arbitration eligible players, and that assumes that Matsui walks. Crawford is no done deal for the Angels by any means.

dirtydez
5 years 8 days ago

What other teams can come close to matching the Yanks offer? Mets and Dodgers maybe…

Guest
5 years 8 days ago

The bankrupt Mets and divorcing Dodgers?

icedrake523
5 years 8 days ago

The Mets have Perez, Castillo, and K-Rod coming off the…..oh wait, that’s next year.

dirtydez
5 years 8 days ago

So they sign Lee and have a mega payroll next season then it’s decent after 2011 when those guys come off… Lee plus a healthy lineup makes them contenders. Sold out stadium every night and ya know he’d like that pitchers park. Lee/Santana pitching 4-5 times in a playoff series… wow.

5 years 8 days ago

It would not be the first time the Rangers grossly overpaid a player, or are you forgetting about A-Fraud? I know, new ownership, but the Yankees don’t hold the patent on stupid contracts.

moonraker45
5 years 7 days ago

definetely not, in fact if i think back to most terrible contracts they were not yankees . but thats not to say the yankees dont influence the market and stupidity.

5 years 8 days ago

If the Yankees didn’t want Lilly in 2006 why the hell would they want him in 2010?

5 years 8 days ago

That’s what I wonder. He’s a sally arm anyway.

BaseballFanatic0707
5 years 8 days ago

Well, you may find this utterly shocking, but the Yankees did want him. However, do to poor commitments to rotation spots, the Yankees felt they didn’t have the room for Lilly.

The Yankees still regret trading him all those years ago for Jeff Weaver, believe it or not.

Guest
5 years 8 days ago

Stop mentioning Joba Chamberlain. He’s a terrible pitcher. Sign someone who isn’t a flyball pitcher and then focus on the bullpen.

5 years 8 days ago

Sure, a young 25 year old pitcher who is controlled through 2014 and has a ton of potential is useless. Maybe Yanks should trade him for Olie Perez.

invader3k
5 years 8 days ago

Not useless, but he looks more and more like a solid bullpen arm than a real rotation option.

R_y_a_n
5 years 8 days ago

This is what makes the Chien-ming Wang injury so sad…

5 years 8 days ago

Ok you know what? I was trying to avoid even mentioning Lee in anyway possible, but some of these comments just astound me. None of you have the right to say Cliff Lee doesen’t have an alleigence to Texas, and then again, none of you have the right to say why wouldn’t he, or he does, or whatever. Cliff Lee will go where ever he wants, will get his money, and will get his no-trade clause. None of you know Lee, none of you know what he actually wants. He goes where he goes, and we all have to respect that. Nobody cares where you want to see him, nobody cares wether you want him to go to the Yankees or not, or in fact any other team for that matter.

withpower
5 years 8 days ago

I think it is very appropriate to say he holds no allegiance to Texas.

The guy is the utmost professional. He is doing his job wherever he gets traded to, to the best of his ability.

But he is not going to give it a second thought to sign somewhere else if Texas, New York, or anyone else, doesn’t produce the exact contract he wants.

The guy has gone from being dumped into the minors by the Indians, to the Cy Young, to getting traded 3 times in two seasons.

He is loyal to nothing but his family and himself. As he should be.

5 years 8 days ago

I do agree with you bu I still think nobody should say anything about what place he has an alleigance to, because they don’t actually know that. People could say that and Lee then says “Texas never really meant anything to me”. Lee will go where ever he wants, and I’m not saying it ain’t ok to speculate, but here people just assume things. All I can say is that Lee will go where he and his family are comfortable, so Texas fans shouldn’t get so attached to him because you never know, he might leave the Rangers just like that.

5 years 8 days ago

1. CC Sabathia
2. Cliff Lee
3. Phil Hughes
4. A.J Burnett
5. Andy Pettitie/Joba/ Ivan Nova

5 years 8 days ago

No screw Joba he had tons of chances and he blew them all, he should stay as the 7th inning guy that’s what he’s best at. Someone like Nova should be given consideration if he pitches well this season, and Banuelos, Phelps, Betances, and Brackman should all be moving up

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Don’t you think you can get a better return for Joba on the trade market instead of using him as a 7th inning guy?

5 years 8 days ago

Well he of course can pitch in the rotation only if he gets himself toghether. As a starter last year his velocity dropped which alarmed many fans, and when he went to the bullpen he went back to throwing 99 MPH, 100 in some occasions. If he can’t pitch well they would put him in the bullpen but other than that, I would very much like more of a return from Joba, so he and Hughes can pitch without any rules.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

What would you expect in return if the Yanks traded Joba? What do you believe is his present trade market value? Is this case of not wanting to sell low and if his value improves with performance…you would rather keep him?

5 years 8 days ago

I’d rather have Joba and Hughes pitch in the rotation, see how they pitch without rules, and if they pitch good, then no don’t trade him, young pitching is priceless especially if they pitch well.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Do you guys see Shaun Marcum as a fit in the Yanks starting rotation? AA defintely wants Brett Gardner….plus…it seems like the Yanks are the top candidate for Carl Crawford.

5 years 8 days ago

DO NOT TRADE BRETT GRITNER!

5 years 8 days ago

I agree but his name is actually Brett Gardner.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I think Big Davey came up with a nickname….a good one I must sayBoth of you think very highly of Gardner/Gritner….yet…he is hitting ninth and playing LF….to me…you are not getting full value for him unless he is playing CF and leading off….I also see a similar situation with Joba.What are your thoughts on this? Do you keep them in minimal roles as they peak? Or shop them for the best prospects you can get? Or trade them to fill the biggest holes?

5 years 8 days ago

B.G.(better Nickname in my opinion) has actually lead-off the last couple of games. He exactly hasn’t impressed anyone yet, but he is still in a little bit of a slump, which I think he might be coming out of. Besides it doesen’t matter where he plays. Curtis Granderson plays his best defense at CF, and Gardner can play at any position in the outfield and still play great defense, and has of the of the best arms in the Majors. When Brett starts hitting again I think we will be getting full value. That goes for Joba if he gets himself toghether, because remember as a starter he had the Joba Rules, and his velocity dipped. He still can pitch in the rotation if he goes back to throwing that hard, and hopefully he and Hughes will pitch better without rules.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Joba is only 24….Many starting pitchers don’t reach their form until age 25…..Brendon Morrow is a good example.

I am little surprised you don’t want the Yanks to consider trading a guy batting ninth (he has hit in the ninth spot the most this year) and playing left field for a good starting pitcher….especially if they sign Crawford..

Don’t get me wrong…I think Gardner can bat leadoff and play CF for most teams…I am just surprised you prefer to see him used this way instead of getting converted into a starting pitcher

moonraker45
5 years 8 days ago

difference between morrow and joba is that joba was handled properly and given every opportunity to succeed, where as seattle truly dropped the ball with morrow

AmericanMovieFan
4 years 11 months ago

Also remember Cy Young winner Zack Greinke struggled his first few years. Anybody recall his 2nd season? 5-17 with a 5.80 ERA. Now while you can’t expect him to ever have a winning record as a Royal, with that many losses, that few wins and that ERA a lot of it was his fault. Then he misses a season due to injury and the next season he goes 7-7. He didn’t really hit his stride until his 5th season in the majors and up to that point there was NO indication of what was to come. I remember when he was used as an example for what was wrong with the Royals. My point is- give Joba at least another year, maybe two. Part of it is that the Yankees don’t seem to know how to properly handle him. Maybe if that can figure that out he’ll relax and be the great pitcher we all believed he could be a few years ago.

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

If they could deal him for value and get Crawford or Werth through FA that is a big improvement over Gardner. He is a slap hitter who is getting a little lucky on balls in play (.342 BABIP and though he is fast an can sustain a .320 BABIP he is only hitting LDs at a 18% clip so .342 is still lucky) and with a hollow .285 average due to his lack of power (83/106 hits are singles). Upside is pretty limited if he isn’t lead off hitter.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

ok….so…I am not the only one seeing this…to me….why keep him if he is not batting leadoff and playing CF. Especially if there is a market for him and you won’t be selling low.

Can you expand on “deal him for value”? Don’t want to accidently misconstrue your post.

jwredsox
5 years 8 days ago

I mean Don’t trade him for Javier Vazquez again lol. Pretty much if they can someone who can contribute on the major league level. that player + Crawford(or Werth) >>>>> Gardner.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

ok….I see the Yanks signing Crawford…so…it makes me wonder if there will be a deal in the winter involving Gardner and Marcum…you will get to see Marcum pitch today

5 years 8 days ago

And what if they don’t? They would have traded Gardner for someone like Marcum, and then have no LF. There isn’t a guarantee that the Yankees will get Crawford. And the Yankees would want someone with more value than Marcum. I don’t care how well he’s pitched, Cashman isn’t that stupid. You’re asking alot of questions… Are you some sort of Jays fan who wants Gardner? You’re forcing the subject of Gardner being traded for Marcum… I doubt the Yankees have even payed attention to Marcum, with the exception of when he is starting against him.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I think you misunderstood me….I am discussing Gardner with the presumption Cashman has signed Crawford….I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to trade Gardner without having a better alternative in place.

Yes…I am Jays fan…and I think Gardner is a good player….in fact…I am sure any baseball fan likes Gardner.

This is discussion board on Yankees starting rotation for 2011. If seeing suggestions upsets you….then…perhaps you should ignore the postings.

5 years 8 days ago

The suggestions don’t upset me at all, I actually would be open minded to hear what other people have to say. It just sounds like you might want Gardner to be traded to the Jays but yeah, I guess I took it the wrong way. Now if the Yankees do get Crawford, it would seem like Gardner would be traded. But do you think there’s a chance Granderson might be traded? Of course he started off the season well, but got extremely cold and went on the DL, and hasn’t hit as well since returning, though his defense is sterling.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

No problem….Granderson seems to be a Vernon Wells “lite”….coming off an ordinary season while entering his 30s and salary going up.

Mind you another poster was confident a team like the Angels would pick him up.

I just see trying to trade a “mistake” contract as a difficult task. But, I have seen good GMs in sports escape these situations by getting creative. For example, you might have to package a good prospect with Granderson to move the contract.

Slopeboy
5 years 8 days ago

Vasquez would be a fool to turn down Arb. He has been at best inconsistent this year,with a high ERA,.500 record while pitching on a good team. He is not a kid anymore and has lost a little velocity off the fastball. Only pitchers of Lee’s status are going to make big money in this economic climate. If vasquez goes FA, he risks having to take a pay cut and possibly play for a club not as good as NY.

BaseballFanatic0707
5 years 8 days ago

Personally, at this point, I would say Joba should just stay in the pen. The velocity has dropped off even when coming out of the pen, and it would only drop further if he went back to starting, since he’s throwing at 110% when coming out of the pen (as with any other reliever that throws extremely hard that converts to starting). The Yankees messed him up last year with how they handled the innings limit (a mistake that has thankfully not been repeated with Hughes).A big hell no to: offering Javy arb, picking up the phone to even say hi to Arroyo or Harang. Those three should be as far as way as humanly possible from the Yankees.Taking a flyer on Webb would be just fine, as long as he doesn’t pull a Sheets and ask for 10 million.

5 years 8 days ago

How is it even possible to “mess up” a pitcher? Joba just needs to pitch without rules and also might need to work somethings out with Dave Eiland, Hughes and Joba pitching without their respective rules, especially if they pitch well, could be very formiddable starters in a rotation already with CC Sabathia. They did mishandle him, but I don’t think that did anything to his velocity, because even last year when they put him in the pen, his velocity was up at around 99 MPH. He can still start, even though i have been extremely pissed at how he has performed, it’s never too lat to give up on young pitching.

YanksFanSince78
5 years 8 days ago

Some interesting points being brought up:

Brett Gardner vs Carl Crawford

I guess the first statement to make is that Girardi should’ve moved Gardner to the #1 spot once it was clear that Jeter simply wasn’t performing well as he was in the #1 spot like he did last year. Gardner CAN he productive at the #9 spot but I think he’s an even better #1 guy. Granted, it’s a small sample size but as a #1 hitter in 10 games he’s hitting .333/.422 and as a #9 guy he’s .250/.459.

What is you want/need from a leadoff guy? Ability to get on base and ability to steal bases? Gardner vs Crawford (.381 vs .355 in favor of BG). Stolen bases (Crawford is 40/49 vs BG 35/42). I would say they are comparable as stolen base threats and honestly I still think Gardner needs to learn how to be more aggresive. I would for him to be trained by Henderson to learn about indentifying a pitchers moves on the mound.

I love Crawford but with BG already in the fold at a very reasonable price for the next 4 years I don’t see the sense in offering Crawford the kind of contract that he would warrant in a bidding war. He’s probably going to get offers of around $10-$13 per year and lengths of at least 5 years. To offer 5/$60 for a player who will be in his age 30-35 before the end of the contract and has a game built on speed doesn’t seem smart. Can we absorb it like it’s nothing? Yes? Will it have a marked improvement and earn us 4 or 5 more wins in a season? Probably not.

The rotation: Definetly begins with Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes and Pettite.

Vazquez: I liked the guy but his 86-89 mph FB isn’t getting the job done. He doesn’t have the balls or control to pin point that soft toss pitch and his change up doesn’t have enough of a difference in speed. Matter of fact, I was watching a game where his FB, CH and Slider were all in the 80-89 mph range….IN THE 1ST INNING!!!!! Unless you have spot on wicked movement on your slider and curve then you’re not going to get guys out. Because there’s no real difference in the CH and FB pitches then hitters don’t worry about speed and just focus on location. That was the same problem Edwar Ramirez had and he had an excellent CH. I’m tempted to offer Vazquez arb because I simply don’t think he would accept it anyway. I think his experience in NY has been so bad because of his poor play that the money wouldn’t matter. He mentioned that he’s looking to retire in the next couple of years. I can very easily see him turning down arbitration and accepting a 2 year/$12 mil deal somewhere a little more quiet.

Joba Chamberlain: I still have confidence in him and his velocity has returned nicely. He has been in the 95-98 range pretty frequently in his last few outings. Obviously that probably wouldn’t be the case as a starter going 7 innings. However, it’s not the velocity that has me concerned as much as other. He can be effective at his usual 93-96 mph but he needs to use more of his other offspeed pitched along with his slider. He’s been a FB/Slider pitcher for the last couple of years and has pretty much stopped using his change and curveball. AJ has shown that you need more than 2 pitches to be effective, especially if your control/mechanics are not “Mo-ish”. I thought the Yanks should’ve sent him to AAA to START and to experiment/refine his 3rd and 4th pitches he had in 2007/2008 and then bring him back up to pitch out the pen in late august-september. I think he should be sent to the AFL this winter to re-establish his other pitches and then allow him to be in the mix in spring training in case we don’t sign Lee or Pettite retires.

Others in the mix: I am very interested to see what Ivan Nova can do. He throws hard enough to keep ppl honest (93-94) and if he has effective offspeed stuff then who knows, maybe he can be a solid #5. Certainly it would be hard to be worse than Vazquez right now. Mosley and Gaudin are serviceable. I like Mosley the most and Gaudin showed how valuable he is over the last couple of games as he saved the bullpen in the game AJ started pitching the last 2 innings and then came right back to bridge the gap from Vazquez’s crap of a performance to get us into the middle innings. He stopped the bleeding and kept us in the game.

Lee: I wouldn’t give Lee more than CC but I would certainly give him the same annual but fewer years. Something like 5/115 should get it done and I can’t see too many other teams willing to do that.

What would I do? Go after Lee and bring back Pettite. If I do that then I’m set. If I get Lee and Pettite retires then let one of Nova, Mosley and Joba battle it out. If we don’t get Lee and Pettite returns then we have to find another solid front/middle guy. The AL East is too competitive to go with just CC, AJ, Hughes and Pettite from the start. Vazquez isn’t the most desired choice to bring back but I’m not sure if Arroyo, Harang, Lilly and Westbrook are any better.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Good post. I think AA likes both Crawford and Gardner. If the Yanks sign Crawford…then I see him asking about Gardner….If the Yanks don’t sign Crawford..then I see AA chasing him.

I agree with you on Gardner should be at leadoff…I think his time is now.

moonraker45
5 years 7 days ago

no way AA goes after crawford, the team isn’t ready yet to add FA stars.

secondly, adding an of means you have to play bautista at 3b, which isn’t the worst thing, but he is far more valuable to the team as a rf.

last crawford has stated numerous times that he doesn’t like leading off. so why go get the speedy outfielder you want, only to still need a lead off batter.

Add all that to the fact that crawford probably wants to stop seeing the red sox and yankees and be on a team committed to winning right now, no way this is a match

5 years 8 days ago

Rotation Next Year:
CC Sabathia
A.J. Burnett
Phil Hughes
I believe this is Andy’s last year, and he’s pitched great, so it is a question wether he retires or not. But i’m going to put it in a scenario where he doesen’t come back.
Go agressively after Cliff Lee, and make sure that the Yankees get him, absolutely sure. Then there’s one spot left. Joba’s velocity returned, and with Phil Hughes coming off his “rules” next season, which means no innings limit for either Joba or Hughes, I’m definetly in for seeing Joba and Hughes pitch without limit. If they can pitch well, then the rotation would be one of the most formiddable, and if not one of the best, THE best. And I would say no to Mitre, for Gaudin, I don’t know, but I’d rather see how Joba does. But Ivan Nova is someone who could get considertation.
Scenario w/ Pettitte coming back.
Well Leave Joba in the bullpen, and make sure the Yankees get Lee.
And now the outfield.
Nick Swisher is a lock in RF next year. And then there is B.G. and Granderson. There has been some speculation that the Yankees would go after Crawford, but they have those two. There has been talk that BG would be traded(which i’m really against)for some prospects or pitching to make room for Crawford. This is how it would have to turn out to get Crawford, or trade Granderson, or make B.G. a fourth outfielder, which is unlikely. But that’s how it would come into fruition. I don’t know wether the Yanks are gonna try and get Crawford but one can only speculate.
The Only other thing I was going to say…
Brian Cashman needs to make it a priorty to bring up Jesus Montero next year. Maybe in the middle of the season. I think he might be ready.

Well, that’s how I put it. Your thoughts?

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Well…I have read another where there is a belief that Granderson can be traded if Crawford is signed….the poster said Angels specifically….

Maybe I have a Toronto bias….but….it seems like it will be difficult to trade Granderson with his contract after an ordinary year and him going into his 30s…to me…this seems like a Vernon Wells “lite” situation….

The real questions seem to be…who will lead off? and who will play CF? If it is not Gardner…then he should be shopped around for a starting pitcher. Or a good prospect…

I only suggested Marcum because I am from Toronto and want to gauge the reaction from Yankee fans. Seems to be no or little interest.

5 years 8 days ago

Well like you said Granderson could be moved only with a good prospect along with it. But I don’t think the Yankees, even wih the depth they have in the minor leagues, teams might be asking for prospects like Betances, or Banuelos, or maybe even Gary Sanchez, and I’d say as a Yankee fan those guys are untouchable unless teams can really blow us over. Plus Granderson can have a good season if he stayed healthy so we will see about that. Gardner(if not Granderson) would be shopped around for some prospects, I think his breakout year will give him more value than a bullpen pitcher, unless if it is someone like Soria, very unlikely though, and I think I know Brian Cashman’s plan for pitching this offseason. So if the Yankee aquire Crawford; they would most likely shop Gardy for prospects, or a good starter. In that scenario Granderson or Jeter would bat leadoff, with Granderson playing CF. Now I’m not saying I wouldn’t like Marcum in the rotation, good starter, but I think Cashman won’t do that.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I would say it is better to keep Granderson…after all…Wells has bounced back this year to acceptable performance….I think the same can happen with Granderson.

If Cashman signs Crawford and shops Gardner for prospects…then…I can see AA talking with him because AA has been loading up on good pitching prospects with the intent of trading them for key position players.

He did stay on Anthony Gose like a dog on a bone until he got him….given his interest in Gardner at the trading deadline..he will probably do the same Gardner…even if he has to turn it into a three way deal (just like Gose).

5 years 8 days ago

Well, even if it is in division, it’s a win-win if BG is traded for some propects in a scenario where Carl Crawford signed with the Yankees, and yeah I do think Grandy can bounce back next year

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I think it will be something to watch this winter….I believe the two outfielders who interest AA are Crawford and Gardner….if the Yanks outbid him on Crawford…then he will ask about Gardner

He drafted and signed this year four pitchers in the first round and two pitchers in the second round…His main reason for stocking up on pitchers is to facilitate trades.

Slopeboy
5 years 8 days ago

This is a very sensible and thoroughly thought out posting. I would have liked to move Granderson to make room for Crawford, but everything you say is right on the money

YanksFanSince78
5 years 8 days ago

I simply think that if it’s not broke don’t fix it. Prior to the season, Gardner and Werth seemed like logical 2011 targets. After a break out season for Gardner and a solid year for Swisher it seems like there isn’t any reason to go after another OF next year. Where I do have some concern is at 3B, C and the mid/back of the rotation. I don’t think Arod is washed up or ready to be a full time DH and I still think Posada can catch another 80 games next year but we certainly need to look at what’s available to fortify those positions next year.

Sign Cliff Lee. Re-sign Berkman to a 1 year deal because we still need a DH who won’t demand 600 Ab next year. He, Arod, Posada and Jeter can all mix and match as DH w/ Berkman also resting Tex a few games a year. Manny would be an even better choice but I doubt the Yanks would go there. Sign Scott Downs if and only if we sign a higher ranked Type A first (see Cliff Lee).

Here’s a crazy idea. What if the Yanks were to sign Crawford and move Granderson to RF and Swisher to DH? Could Grandy play RF? Can you imagine an OF of Crawford/Gardner/Granderson? Would that even be realistic?

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I don’t think it is crazy at all…Makes most sense to me….Now…..what would be the batting order? Do you want to keep Gardner hitting ninth…If he leads off…where does Jeter hit? Second? If second, where does Crawford hit?…and so on and so on.

By the way, my bad for turning a discussion on the Yankees 2011 rotation into an outfield discussion.

5 years 8 days ago

Well the rotation is kind of easy to speculate on, and I think Cashman will do the predictable. But there are some more problems The Yankees need to adress on like YanksFanSince78 said.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

Yeah…he will go after Cliff Lee….interesting you see A-Rod as a problem at 3B…although I like Longoria better…A-Rod still stacks up well against the rest of the league.

Catcher looks different to me…..yeah….Yanks may want to do something…John Buck???? Type B signing….Rod Barajas???…….heck…maybe trade for Arencibia….after all…AA traded Brett Wallace.

5 years 8 days ago

Catching? Sounds like you have not heard of young Jesus Montero…

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

LOL…I have had many Yankee posters tell me he is destined to be a DH because of his catching skills…If he is destined to be Catcher…then…the Yanks are set because he is doing well in AAA at age 20….his minor league stats are very comparable to Gary CarterHe was one of the players AA wanted when the Yankees asked about Downs and Bautista…I even suggested a package involving Downs, Arencibia, and Montero is worth considering.He is an outstanding prospect if he can catch…actually…an outstanding prospect even if he can’t catch

5 years 8 days ago

Not to disrispect you or any of the Blue Jays, but Montero isn’t worth even Downs alone. Montero isn’t going to get traded anyway. He probably might DH, but then again we have Romine and Gary Sanchez who can play catcher.

johnsmith4
5 years 8 days ago

I would be shocked if any GM traded Montero for Downs straight up.

5 years 7 days ago

I’d be shocked if they trade Montero at all. If I was the owner, and Cashman did that, I’d fire him on the spot.