White Sox Acquire Manny Ramirez

The White Sox officially acquired Manny Ramirez from the Dodgers, tweets USA Today's Bob NightengaleMLB Network's Peter Gammons tweets that the Sox decided to take on Manny's entire salary in lieu of surrendering a prospect, so this is a straight waiver claim.  $3.8MM of Ramirez's $20MM salary remains, though three-quarters of that is deferred without interest.  The move bears some similarity to Chicago's waiver claim of Alex Rios from the Blue Jays on August 10th of last year – both players were simply handed over for salary relief.  In this case, Ramirez waived his no-trade rights without compensation.

Ramirez has worn out his welcome at each of his three previous stops, as chronicled by Yahoo's Jeff Passan.  Still, he represents the best possible designated hitter upgrade the White Sox could have made.  Manny is still a near-lock for a .400 OBP and .500 slugging percentage, and he may be motivated by his impending free agency and damaged reputation.  The White Sox are running out of time to close the 4.5 game gap with the Twins.  With 32 games remaining, Baseball Prospectus pegs Chicago's playoff chances at 8.9%.


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94 Comments on "White Sox Acquire Manny Ramirez"


TwinsVet
5 years 11 hours ago

Another player Kenny Williams used to have a baseball card of when he was a kid…Seriously, when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?

chetkincaid
5 years 11 hours ago

Alex Rios says hi.

TwinsVet
5 years 11 hours ago

His best years were back in 06-07. He’s going to have to raise his OPS 50+ points and hit 6 HR in September to match those numbers.

chetkincaid
5 years 11 hours ago

Stop letting that sight in your rear view mirror cloud your judgement.

snowles
5 years 11 hours ago

He was batting .264/.317/.427 when Toronto let him go for nothing, and playing defence and showing baserunning skills that words like ‘boneheaded’ don’t even begin to describe. The move was applauded at the time by Jays fans.

Then he put up a spectacular .199/.229/.301 in Chicago. Impact felt.

lolpods
5 years 11 hours ago

um, you realize it isn’t 2009 anymore, right?

snowles
5 years 10 hours ago

Yes, yes I do. Thank you for that.

And in 2010, which it turns out is this year, he’s putting up a 111OPS+ for 10 million dollars. Fred Lewis, who was acquired for a sack of peanuts, has put up a 108OPS+ and is the same age.

Alex Rios is worth 1.2 more wins than Fred Lewis (2.4 to 1.2 WAR), even factoring in defense. 9.925 million dollars for 1 win.

danny_duberstein
5 years 10 hours ago

1 WAR = 4 million dollars

So if Rios is worth 2.9 WAR now (according to fangraphs), and makes 9.7 million in ’10, he’s pretty much been worth his salary and then some. In 2012 that may not be the case, but I’ll cry myself to sleep over that in 2012.

I don’t care if Fred Lewis (1.1 WAR) or other players with similar OPS+ is making less than Rios. That’s going to happen sometimes. Sometimes players you expect nothing from (and pay nothing) work out better than you expected. Sometimes the opposite happens. Doesn’t change the fact that Rios has been worth his salary.

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

That doesn’t mean Rios is past his prime…..

He’s already 10 SBs past where he was in 06 or 07 and about to have his first ever 20-20 season.

Yes, 06 and 07 were statisically better offensive seasons….but he’s still having a very good year.

I can admit, I was one of those that called KW an idiot for grabbing Rios. I still think it’s way too much money for him, but I stand corrected on the “idiot” comment. Has worked out well and if you have the money to spend, then it’s not a bad deal.

snowles
5 years 10 hours ago

He has been caught 13 times though, that’s a stolen base rate of 67.5%, which is pretty poor for someone with his speed. League average is 72.3%.

I don’t think he’s a bust or anything, but I think the longer the contract goes on, the more regrettable the move will be for the White Sox.

snowles
5 years 11 hours ago

Well said, he’s a 2.4 WAR player being paid $10 million dollars, almost all of that value coming in May. Oh, and he’s still owed $50 million between 2011-2015, assuming his team option isn’t picked up. Meanwhile for Toronto, Fred Lewis is giving them about the same production for $75,000.

.245/.280/.373 in August says hi. When you’re replaced in Toronto by the team’s backup third baseman, who then proceeds to crush your numbers, things don’t look so good.

chetkincaid
5 years 11 hours ago

Hmmm… I didn’t know you could capture an entire baseball season in the month of August. When did you start doing that?

snowles
5 years 11 hours ago

when it follows OPS months of 761 and 735 and you’re getting on base less than a third of the time. He has done nothing but decrease with the bat since that mammoth May even including that incredible month he is an under 800 OPS outfielder at the age of 29 locked up for the next half a decade for a ridiculous price.

Glad you like him though, though I’ve never heard an actual argument why.

danny_duberstein
5 years 10 hours ago

He’s quite handsome. That makes up for part of his salary.

chetkincaid
5 years 10 hours ago

If you don’t know, I’m not going to waste time explaining it to you. Yes. I am glad he is with the White Sox.

snowles
5 years 10 hours ago

Can’t disagree with that sort of well thought-out and logically presented argument.

chetkincaid
5 years 10 hours ago

That is all that was needed. Thanks.

alxn
5 years 9 hours ago

It’s better than cherry picking stats and making irrelevant comparisons to try and make your point. You’re obviously either a Jays fan or Rios hater. Rios has had a very good season, regardless of when the production has happened. Fred Lewis and Jose Bautista have absolutely nothing to do with the value of Alex Rios. Good for the Jays for getting solid production out of them.

4 years 11 months ago

Boom.

4 years 11 months ago

Saying “says hi” too much says hi.

Seriously though, are you a disgruntled Jays fan? You have to be.

twins33
5 years 11 hours ago

“when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?”

Uhhh, today. Anyone who thinks Manny is past his prime is nuts. He has one of the best eyes in MLB and he can still hit. He’s been great for two months this season. The rest of the time he’s been injured or not played.

Manny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kotsay/revolving DH. Do not for a second think that this didn’t just greatly improve the White Sox offense.

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

Manny Ramirez is DEFINITELY past his prime. That is not even a debate. 100% past his prime.

Now, is Manny still a great fit in Chicago? YES. Is he still a huge upgrade at DH? YES. Can he still help the White Sox win? YES.

But he is definitely past his prime.

twins33
5 years 11 hours ago

Are you high?

1.058 OPS in 2006
.881 in 2007
1.031 in 2008
.949 in 2009
.915 in 2010 so far

All of these while playing +100 games each year

That’s past his prime? I’d love to see a guy who’s really past his prime. Past his prime to me means he can’t cut it anymore. He’s either average or worse. Manny just became the second best offensive player on the White Sox. If it wasn’t for such an outstanding year by Konerko, he’d be #1.

He may not be as good as he used to be, but I’d still call him a top 20 hitter in MLB. Most MLB players would kill for his stats.

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

Well FYI, that’s not what “past his prime” means. Like twin said, his OPS is 100 pts lower than his career average.

I woudln’t call him a top 20 hitter in baseball….but even if you do, that’s not where he was in his prime. In his prime he was a top 3 hitter in baseball.

He’s past his primed, period. All scouts agree, he simply is getting old and can’t generate the power he once did (cue lame steroid comment here if you must). His legs are getting old and tired. He’s still a GREAT hitter, but he was beyond great for a number of years.

Guest
5 years 11 hours ago

If Manny wasnt past his prime he would in LA and he would of played 100 games by now.

5 years 11 hours ago

“Past his prime” means he is no longer in his prime–not “no longer a helpful player.”

In his prime, Manny used to hit 35+ HR’s–he’ll be lucky if he reaches 15 HR’s this season.

disgustedcubfan
5 years 9 hours ago

Factor in the fact that Manny is off the juice now. That will impact his numbers.

TwinsVet
5 years 11 hours ago

Manny’s OPS is over 100-points lower than his career average. To say a 38-year old guy is as good as the 26-year-old version is just silly.Of course they improved their offense. I’m not arguing that. But I’d be more worried if they improved their bullpen (which was far-and-away the bigger weakness).My point is just that is seems like KW has this tendency to go after guys pushing 40. I’d like to see Chicago acquire someone who actually has their peak years in a Chicago uniform, instead of future HOF guys who aren’t producing like they used to.

twins33
5 years 11 hours ago

Past his prime to me means he can’t hack it anymore (average, no real impact). He’s not as good as he used to be, but I believe he’s still a top 20 hitter in all of MLB. How many players past their prime have that going for them?

You wouldn’t take Manny’s stats on the Twins? He’s become the second best player on the team for the White Sox without even picking up the bat yet. He’d be our 2nd or 3rd best.

TwinsVet
5 years 11 hours ago

Most people consider “past his prime” to mean declining numbers. Their best seasons are behind them. They’re past the apex of their career production arc.

“Washed-up” would mean they can’t hack it anymore.

5 years 11 hours ago

Listen to TwinsVet, twins33.

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

Past his prime does not mean he can’t hack it anymore. That would be “over the hill” or “done”. Past your prime simply means you’re not the same player you once were during your prime. That describes Manny to a t.

A-Rod is past his prime. Still a top 20 in baseball.

Again, no one is denying how good Manny is, just that you are nuts if you don’t think he’s past his prime.

The fact that you’re admitting he isn’t the best hitter on the White Sox or that he wouldn’t be on the Red Sox kind of proves that. If he was as good as he was in his prime, then he’d be the best hitter on the Twins. In his prime, he was better than Morneau and Mauer offensively.

IMO, other than maybe A-Rod, Manny was the best hitter of the past decade.

4 years 11 months ago

Introducing Albert Pujouls.

5 years 10 hours ago

Everyone does realize that the White Sox just got Manny Ramirez for nothing, right?

If that doesn’t say “past his prime” then nothing will.

When you’re not paying anything, you don’t have any right to complain about age or “prime” or whatever nonsense.

It’s a good deal.

Joey Doughnuts
5 years 11 hours ago

Alex Rios? Carlos Quentin?

TwinsVet
5 years 10 hours ago

Rios is being hotly debated right now below.

But I’ll accept Quentin as the last player KW went out and got who actually peaked while in a Chicago uniform.

5 years 10 hours ago

This is too easy….Edwin Jackson (so far…), Carlos Quentin, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Sergio Santos, Matt Thorton, Alexei Ramirez, drafted Gordon Beckham and Chris Sale who are both contributing to our MLB club already. Rios who has been steady most of the season and could still very well have a great September. Regardless of his recent slump, he’s been one of our best overall players this season. Lets not forget picking up Jenks off waivers in 2004-2005. So just give me a break with all your BS. Even if you pick up players who aren’t really in their “prime” but are still making an impact on your team, that’s still a good thing. For example, Pierre, Vizquel, Peavy was good for us before he was hurt, Garcia has been a good 5th starter, possibly Manny, Putz, and Pierzynski was picked up for nothing prior to 2005 and has been as stready as they come for us for many years now.When your GM puts together a World Series winner, then come talk about our GM. Because at the end of the day, that’s all that matters in this game.

BigHurt2005
5 years 9 hours ago

Nicely put CWS961. How about just win a playoff game let alone the world series, then come chirping.

TwinsVet
5 years 9 hours ago

A bit defensive?

I’m not saying KW is a bad GM, nor am I saying he can’t put together winners, nor am I saying he doesn’t get useful players.

I’m just noting how you can always count on him to go out and get a once-great, now-past-his-prime player. He seems to do it more than most clubs. Last year was KGJ. This year Manny. Next year it will be Vlad. In 2012 it will be Ortiz. In 2013 it’ll be A-Rod…

4 years 11 months ago

Not defensive at all.

But sorry, no, that isn’t what you said at all. What you said was, and I quote, “Seriously, when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?”Now you claim you meant, “you can always count on him to go out and get a once-great, now-past-his-prime player.”That is what you said. It’s write up there for everyone to read. The two comments are not even close to being similar in words, or tone for that matter. If you can’t stand by the statements you make, then don’t say the statements to begin with. Especially after you say them repeatedly until people start to prove your original statement to be wrong and absurd, at best.I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here. I’m simply pointing out how your “original statement” was much different then your statement now, especially in accurateness and tone.

TwinsVet
4 years 11 months ago

You’re inferring tone, which text is notoriously poor at conveying.

I fail to see a huge difference between phrasing is as a question, or declaring it as a statement; both make the exact same point – KW likes once-great players.

4 years 11 months ago

Stating “Seriously, when’s the last time Chicago (Kenny Williams) acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime” is MUCH different than simply stating “Kenny Williams likes once-great players”.One statement implies that they never acquire or have not recently acquired an impact player who isn’t past their prime, while your second comment implies he simply “likes once-great players”.There’s a difference. If you can’t see it, then I guess we can just move on. I know others here have seen it and called you out on it by providing lists of players, so I guess at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter.

TwinsVet
4 years 11 months ago

Since you’re not familiar with the way “tone” works (or fails to work) in text, I’m sure you don’t understand hyperbole, either. But to clarify, it’s an exaggeration made to prove a point.

Obviously KW has acquired players who aren’t past their prime. I was just quipping that he always seems to come through with an acquisition like this down the stretch. He seems to fill his roster with more past-their-prime players than most GM’s. Look at the starting lineup; There’s a handful of examples of guys who peaked in Chicago (Quentin, Thornton), but a much longer list who already had their best years behind them (Rios, AJ, Jones, Kotsay, Pierre, Manny, Vizquel). I’m never passed judgment on the values of one style – I’m just making an observation on KW’s particular style (which obviously is effective, given your consistent contender record the past several years).

I should have known that the Sox crowd would be hyper-defensive about any perceived slight to GM…

4 years 11 months ago

Well then you should phrase it like that instead of stating, “Seriously, when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?”

Why? Because by stating that in your very first comment, then gradually backtracking on your original statement along the way, implies you originally were saying KW hasn’t acquired impact players in their prime. Why? Because you said, “Seriously, when’s the last time……..” You didn’t say down the stretch, you didn’t say they have acquired impact players in their prime (in fact you implied the opposite), and you didn’t simply state “KW likes once-great players” like you are stating now.It’s really that simple. It’s easy to make a statement, get proven wrong, then backtrack and make a different statement and act like the first comment was never made. Unfortunately for you, you were the first comment on the list to start the discussion. Your original comment is your comment and nobody elses.

TwinsVet
4 years 11 months ago

My deepest apologies for posting a brief sentence rather than opening with a couple of paragraphs.

4 years 11 months ago

Why did I just read an argument about tone and text? ON MLBTR.

Welp, time for bed.

4 years 11 months ago

It doesn’t take a paragraph. Just stand by your orginal comment and don’t act like you said and meant something else when proven to be inaccurate by others. You’ve been asked about this and/or “called out” by numerous people, so perhaps you should learn to collect and post your thoughts a little better than you did here. Especially if you said one thing, but meant something different. Much like you did here……

4 years 11 months ago

YES! Please take 2013 A-Rod and his salary off of our hands!

Signed,
The Yankees and their fan base.

twins33
5 years 11 hours ago

This easily makes the White Sox better. They went from no real DH to Manny who is still really good. I hope he has a few more DL stints in him.

5 years 11 hours ago

Is there a better place for an arrogant but productive star to ply his trade than the hot mess of different personalities and gritty fans that is the South Side of Chicago? I can’t think of one.

There have always been some classy players, some jerkwads, and some first class lunatics on the Sox, but Guillen keeps them together enough to win. If there is anywhere that can absorb Manny’s antics and still come out in one piece and winning, surely it’s the Sox.

SmackSaw
5 years 11 hours ago

I wish Manny nothing but the best….now get out! He sparked the team in 2008, for that I am grateful. Playing left field sapped his legs, not to mention getting popped for PED’s, after which he wasn’t the same. He should make a perfect DH. This move is good for everybody.

dc21892
5 years 11 hours ago

I’m glad the biggest problems happened while he was with the Dodgers. Being a Red Sox fan, the time we had him for was great. Even though he acted up and got traded, I’m still a Manny fan. Great move by the White Sox.

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

FYI, Manny never got popped for PEDs.

He got busted for using a drug that may (or may not) have been used to mask the effects of former PED use.

Manny has never tested positive for a baseball performance enhancing drug.

SmackSaw
5 years 11 hours ago

Right. He was taking female fertility drugs because he wasn’t trying to mask taking PED’s. May or may not my eye. Maybe he was trying to get pregnant.

Hermie13
5 years 10 hours ago

FYI, it’s not simply a female fertility drug. That’s just what ESPN and other sports site reported cause it was good for news/headlines.

He got busted for taking hCG. It is released naturally by women during pregnancy, but it has MANY uses by doctors today as a synthesized drug.

One of the most common is weight loss.

Both men and women take this as you can actually go on a 500 calorie a day diet and feel completely stuffed. It’s used for rapid weight loss in the range of like 15-30 lbs in 26-40 days.

Another use is for men who suffer from infertility. Johnny Cueto used this excuse. You choose not to believe this if you want, but there are more things than just steroids that lower men’s sperm counts.

I’m NOT saying Manny definitely did not take PEDs….but he NEVER, EVER tested positive for them.

You can buy hCG over the counter as a weightloss drug……

So maybe Manny was trying to lose some weight. Anyone think he couldn’t stand to lose a few pounds?

Or maybe he’s getting old and losing his libido and has a low sperm count.

Yes, I do agree that in this day and age, steroids are probably the most likely……but Manny never, ever tested positive for anything directly linked to steroids.

In reality, we have no more solid proof that he used than we do on any player.

SmackSaw
5 years 9 hours ago

I did not know that. Thanks for the thorough clarification.

Slopeboy
4 years 11 months ago

Your posting is a very thorough, astute and informative compilation of double talk and grand BS. Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire and David Ortiz, to name a few never test positive either, and we all know how that’s turned out. Looking at Manny the last few years, it’s somewhat a given that he has not worried about losing weight.
Besides any MLB trainer would have many better options for him to lose weight than taking a banned substance. And as far as your theory about his libido, I offer the thought that a 38 year old man, doesn’t really think about fathering children that much as a twenty- something year old. In reality we don’t have concrete proof that he did, but it appears strongly that he did. Reading your post as well as it’s written, I wonder if your not his publicist.

Guest
5 years 11 hours ago

Overall, a very solid move for the White Sox. I think they’ve made some great moves and are playing well. I wouldn’t count them out just yet. I think they have a better chance of making the post season than the Red Sox. It’s pretty lopsided in AL overall this season and there is a short list of contenders at this point. For the most part, outside of the White Sox, I think we know who our 4 teams are at this point. I don’t see any of these teams having a Met like collapse. Solid on the Dodgers part too. Pocket the cash for next season.

oblio64
5 years 11 hours ago

Go Twins.

5 years 11 hours ago

I still am trying so hard to see how he “wore out his welcome” here in LA

KNOWLEDGABLE fans know what he was bringing to the plate.

I must admit, LA isn’t the haven of knowledgable fans though, we’re in the land of “fairweatherdom”

Hermie13
5 years 11 hours ago

Yeah, I’m kind of curious how he wore out his welcome in Cleveland.

There were websites devoted to paying Manny, and Manny was in fact offered the largest contract the Indians have ever offered a player (total money that is).

The Indians as a team and the fans wanted him back. We simply got overspent by the Red Sox.

It’s true that after he took the money fans in Cleveland got ticked at him….but how is that wearing out your welcome?

SmackSaw
5 years 11 hours ago

I perceived a lack of hustle. He could hit, but I think playing left field wore him out. I always stopped what I was doing when he came to the plate. When he started to coast, that’s when he lost it.

5 years 11 hours ago

even if the TWINS win the division they’re going to be out in the first round because they have to play new york or tampa bay. They better hope they get tampa bay because when a-rod and berkman come back it’s going to be ugly for whoever is in their way

Hermie13
5 years 10 hours ago

I wouldn’t say the Twins are for sure out. I kind of like their chances (relatively speaking) against the Yanks in the 1st round. You just never know with the pitching sometimes. CC could get rocked then things could get dicey after that.

Obviously the Yanks would still be hte favorites, and it would be a pretty big upset if the Twins won….but defintiely possible if Pavano can keep it together with Liraino as well.

Slopeboy
4 years 11 months ago

Twins have been snake bitten for the last few years when facing NY. They’re due!

4 years 11 months ago

Ugh.

Carl Pavano.

5 years 11 hours ago

Is this a good move if the Sox do not catch the Twins? Or is it just wasted money? Does it really give the Sox any better chance at winning, since he essentially replaces Quentin in the lineup, considering they both only play one position acceptably – DH. The difference between Quentin (.239/.336/.486 –.821 babip .229) and Manny (.311/.405/.510 –.915 bapip.346) appears to be entirely made up of the above average babip vs the below average one.

lolpods
5 years 11 hours ago

he replaces kotsay/jones. quentin will remain in RF, ramirez DH.

5 years 10 hours ago

But my point is, that considering Quentin’s beyond bad defense in right field, aren’t the Sox forcing themselves to play with two DHs? Does Quentin’s poor defense out there negate his presence from the lineup?
Jones .215/.321/.474 — .795 babip .212
Kotsay .233/.307/.382 — .688 babip .238

Both of those guys are much less gaudy in the slash dept, sure. Manny doesn’t actually replace either of them, though, as while they played DH, they were both acceptable defenders at different positions. Remove Jones from the roster, no more fielding relief. Remove Kotsay, no more backup first base. Unless of course you relish the inexperienced at first and just as bad in the outfield Teahen. I suppose a solution is to go with one less reliever, although considering the injuries, i doubt that works.

I don’t question Manny’s ability to produce extra wins over a season. At nearly 4 Mil, and high slash numbers owing at least a little bit to being lucky, is it really a good risk? That’s all I’m wondering about.

5 years 10 hours ago

Do you even watch the Sox at all??…ever???. What makes you think that either Jones or Kotsay will be removed from the roster? Maybe itll be Lillibridge…or one of the kids recently brought up to work in the bullpen.

With Sept call ups just around the corner I doubt seriously that having one less DH who can play decently in the field is a major concern…or one less arm in the pen. The dugout will be full in a couple of days

southsidehitman
5 years 10 hours ago

You do realize that rosters expand to 40 on Sept 1st? That solves the problem of the extra reliever. So Manny, Kotsay and Jones will all be on the roster.

lolpods
5 years 10 hours ago

sure it’s a risk, but the offensive upgrade over kotsay/jones is staggering if ramirez hits according to his ability. quentin has played the majority of this season in RF anyway. and i’m not too worried about a first base backup, especially with the callups coming. if they make the playoffs, paul will be there every game anyway. kotsay has no value. i would keep jones around though as he still seems a decent defender.

southsidehitman
5 years 10 hours ago

“when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?”

Carlos Quentin
Alex Rios
Gavin Floyd
John Danks
Edwin Jackson
Alexi Ramirez

All of these players were acquired by KW in the last couple of years, either by trade or FA signing. They are now the cornerstones of the franchise.

As far as the Manny claim…what fan wouldn’t want his team that has a glaring hole at DH to acquire him for nothing but $4M (which most of that is deferred)?

TwinsVet
5 years 10 hours ago

I admitted Quentin was one. He’s the only example I’ve seen.

Rios still has his best seasons behind him. Floyd never had playing time before. Danks never played in the MLB before. Jackson hasn’t yet shown whether his best stuff is behind him or not. Alexei was picked up out of Cuba.

I’m talking about going out and getting a guy who actually played in the majors, and goes on to do BETTER for Chicago than he did elsewhere. I’m talking about buying low on a player, rather than buying high because they’ve got a bigger name than their current abilities justify.

Obviously Manny helps. But you know when a DH would have helped? April, when you were having trouble scoring runs. Right now you’re scoring plenty of runs, but your bullpen is in shambles. KW is buying a patch for the sink when it’s the tub that’s currently leaking.

5 years 9 hours ago

We have the most agressive GM in the game. If there was a impact bat that he could have traded for in April, he would have made the deal.He gave you a list of players, much like I did. Free agent signings and drafts matter as well.

So you are saying because not every move he makes is a reclamation project, his abilities as a GM have to be questioned by a Twins fan of all people? We’ve had plenty of reclamation projects and players who have faired far better in Chicago then they have elsewhere. Just look at the multiple lists provided for you that you choose to disregard…..

TwinsVet
5 years 9 hours ago

Cripes. I’m just noting that KW seems to have a tendency to go out and get once-great veterans. I’m not questioning his talents as a GM. It’s a simple observation: You seem to always be able to count on KW to go get a once-great player (who’s currently past his prime) in August.

5 years 9 hours ago

Maybe they were further back, but how about Loaiza, then flipping Loaiza for Contreras. Both had their best seasons on the White Sox. Pierzinski has had his best seasons on the Sox.

Floyd played with the Phillies, he pitched in 24 games and started 19 of those. I’m sure I could come up with more, but in the end, who cares if a guy is “passed his prime” if he is helping the club? Who has Kenny actually given up that has come back to bite him? Nobody I can think of. On the team right now, the only guys Kenny didn’t get are Konerko and Buehrle. Everyone else was acquired/signed/drafted by Kenny.

TwinsVet
5 years 9 hours ago

AJ’s best season most certainly came in 2003 for the Twins, if you wanna look at OPS.

But other than that, all you Sox folks seem to think I’m taking a stab at KW. I’m not. I’m making an observation that he seems to be partial to guys who were once-great. It’s amusing to me. If it’s a player who has 10+ years in the majors, is destined for Cooperstown, KW seems to desperate want him.

5 years 9 hours ago

That’s fine, but you didn’t say he is partial to guys who were once great, you said when was the last time he picked up a player who wasn’t passed his prime. If you had worded it the first way, or the way you are now, you wouldn’t have had a bunch of people try to prove you wrong. You also were refuting what some others were saying trying to prove the point that he hasn’t picked up a player who wasn’t passed his prime in a while. Most guys other than Griffey that he has picked up even passed their prime has performed well for the Sox. Even Griffey played decently. I don’t care if a guy is passed his prime, just that he helps the team, which a lot seem to do.

phil33
5 years 7 hours ago

As you said he did get chances with the phils. Not many people could of predicted what hes done with the Sox off those chances. GM for the Sox should definetly get credit for that.

southsidehitman
5 years 9 hours ago

So you are going to keep narrowing it down until it’s impossible for you to be wrong? By the way, Floyd had 19 career starts before he came to the Sox.

But I still have an answer…………Matt Thornton! He sucked in Seattle and he was an All Star this year. Possibly the best LH reliever in baseball.

Or how about Jermaine Dye? He had monster years with the Sox, including World series MVP. Or wait…..Jose Contreras!! I know those are going back about 5 years, but they were MAJOR pieces to the championship team.

As far as Edwin Jackson, the Sox acquired him for the pennant race because they did not want to rely on Hudson (rookie) down the stretch. If you look at his numbers in his few starts with the Sox….he is making an “impact”.

As far as Manny, there is no argument that he improves the Sox lineup. Yes the bullpen is beat up right now, but the good thing is everybody knows that KW will make as many moves as possible to win. So if there is bullpen help that the Sox can get….Kenny will do it. It wasn’t any either/or question.

TwinsVet
5 years 9 hours ago

Thornton, Dye. Sure, there’s two more good examples.

Floyd and Jackson are both working from *really* small sample sizes. I don’t think anyone would look at 23 collective games between two players and draw conclusions from that.

Once again, I’m just noting how he seems to have a tendency for once-great players. That’s all. I’m not saying he’s not a fine GM, or that he has *never* found budding stars. I just find it kind of interesting that if there’s a former All-Star, future HOFer, but currently well past his prime, you can always count on KW to make a play for him.

As for the bullpen – how’d Fuentes get past you guys? I’m not trying to be a jerk about it – I was honestly surprised he slipped all the way to us on waivers. I figured for sure you guys would jump at any half-decent reliever.

5 years 9 hours ago

I think Fuentes came down to they didn’t want to fork over $2 mil for him and also $4 mil for Manny, or they couldn’t. At the time Fuentes came through they had Threets and Sale as lefties in the pen, Threets hadn’t given up a run yet in the majors and Sale has also been pretty good. Thornton also should be off the DL soon. I don’t think they saw a need for Fuentes, although now it hurts that Threets got hurt.

southsidehitman
5 years 9 hours ago

Fuentes is passed his prime.

YanksFanSince78
5 years 10 hours ago

It’s funny how people will say playing LF has sapped his leg strength and the follow up that he wasn’t hustling for balls as well or running the bases well. Which is it? Is he getting old or just lazy? My guess is….getting older. Despite what any LA fan wants to say about him being lazy, falling off or being on a steep decline, he still averaged .322/.433/.580 as a Dodger while hitting 44 hrs in 892 PA. That’s an average of 1 per 20 AB. He has a career average of 1 hr per 17 PA prior to becoming a Dodger. So that means he has a slightly lower HR rate as a Dodger than he did earlier in his career.

CLE: .313/.407 w/ 1 HR per 15 PA
BOS: .312/.411 w/ 1 per PA 17 PA
LAD: .322/.433 w/ 1 HR per 17 PA

He may have hit fewer HRS per PA but he has been a better overall hitter posting OPS of .998 (CLE), .999 (BOS) and 1.012 (LAD). Stop complaining about what he didn’t do for the Dodgers and appreciate the great offense he posted for the last 2 1/2 years. Yes he’s moody…yes he’s aloof…and yes he can’t play a decent LF…but you guys knew that from the beginning.

neoncactus
5 years 9 hours ago

Dodger fan in complete agreement with you. We were never going to get a great defensive player, and so what? Passan’s column was a hack job on Manny. He has “worn out his welcome”. By what, helping the Indians make it to the postseason, by being a key factor in the Red Sox winning their first World Series in nearly forever, and by helping the Dodgers win their first two postseason series in 20 years.

You want to talk about busts for the Dodgers? Try Darryl Strawberry and Eric Davis. Attitude problem? That would be Gary Sheffield and Milton Bradley. Manny made the rest of the offense around him better and I hope he turns it on in Chicago.

Then again, he can’t win. If he chokes, people will just say it’s Manny without steroids. If he does well, they’ll ask why didn’t he do that with the Dodgers? As for faking it, I haven’t heard one suggestion from the Dodgers training staff that he was dogging it. If so, I guess Morneau, Nelson Cruz, Ian Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia, and Jason Bay are all dogging it too. And that lazy Stephen Strasburg, he got his big contract, now he fakes an injury to sit out all of next year too! (sarcasm intended)

5 years 8 hours ago

Agreed completely

But as I earlier stated, we don’t have the brightest fanbase.

Bernaldo
5 years 9 hours ago

I have a question. How does deferred compensation work in MLB? Deferred compensation plans in other industries usually obligate the payment of monies into a seperate account controlled by the contractor but assigned to the payee. If the contract is sold, the obligation goes with it. So, even though some of Ramirez’s money is deferred, aren’t the White Sox obligated to pay the pro-rated amount of the deferred money as well as the remainder of his salary obligation for this season? So, if he still owed $4 million – even thought some part of that is paid into a deferred compensation account – aren’t the White Sox still responsible for the whole amount?

5 years 7 hours ago

Yep..the Sox own the whole ball of wax…all 4 million+ of it.

TheReturnOfMrBlanks
5 years 9 hours ago

I hope Manny does well in Chi town, Who knows maybe he was playing possum and is going to actually try now with his new team. He honestly never seemed like he wanted to play this year for the dodgers and a couple of his “injuries” looked to be made up…

YanksFanSince78
5 years 9 hours ago

So again, what reason does Manny have for faking an injury and missing almost two months right in the middle of a walk year campain? Wouldn’t missing time and looking fragile hurt his chances of getting a better contract this winter?

And let’s look at his actual play.

Overall .311/.405 w/ 8 hrs in 196 AB.

April: .415/.500 w/ 2 hrs and 12 rbi
May: .200/.310 w/ 2 hrs and 13 rbi
June: .366/.431 w/ 4 hrs and 14 rbi
July: Only 3 AB
August: Ony 10 AB

Seems like he was having an absolutely great year prior to going on the DL. How does 13 AB and a sub .200 avg w/ no hrs help his cause for this winter? If anything Manny is all about the money and knows how to turn it on. Even if he has a moster Sept and post-season the two months missed is going to cost him millions. I don’t see him doing that while playing for another contract.

Dave4G4e
5 years 9 hours ago

i just wonder what effect this has on anything…I guess he’ll help the sox.

Jman1213
4 years 11 months ago

Two quick things:

1. Manny’s display on Sunday was possibly the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen in my over 25 years of watching this great game.

2. He’s a definite upgrade over Mark Kotsay. It’s rather embarassing to have your DH batting eighth.

5 years 10 hours ago

I do watch the Sox, as much as I can. CQ sports a UZR/150 of -30 this year with a negative arm factor. He’s a talented and dangerous hitter, but he is not a fielder. He gets poor routes, shies from catch-able balls and dives when he shouldn’t. But all that is beside the point. Manny is going to get what, 120 PA? Even if his BaBip stays high, and he hits to the same slash, he’ll get on base a grand total of 8-10 times more than if K&J took those at bats. And since Manny has gone for extra bases at a lesser clip than Jones (12%) and only slightly higher than Kotsay (9% to 7%) You can really only expect one of those extra hits to be a double or homer. That’s a lot of extra cheddar for a guy who’s maybe going to hit one extra homer over the course of the season, assuming his babip doesn’t come back to normal or even below over the month. Of course, should the Sox catch the Twins on the back of another Manny being Manny stretch, it’s worth it.

I’m asking if it’s really all that likely, and should it not happen, is this actually a really bad move? And does he REALLY offer an improvement over what the Sox are trotting out there already, considering the small timetable.