After having their four-year, $48MM extension offer to Dan Uggla rejected, the Marlins seem intent on trading their second baseman. Uggla has his faults; he's not a gifted defender, strikes out in more than one of every four plate appearances for his career, and he's due a nice raise on his $7.8MM salary for 2010. What Uggla does best is hit the ball far, and hit the ball hard. He's never hit fewer than 27 home runs, and has topped 31 long balls in each of the past four seasons.
ESPN's Buster Olney tweets that two rival executives have told him Toronto would be the favorite to acquire Uggla in a trade, should the Marlins indeed follow through on their trade intentions.
The Blue Jays may not seem the most apparent fit at first, given Aaron Hill's presence, however they could intend on moving Uggla to third base. And Uggla certainly fits in with the Blue Jays' mold from 2010. Toronto led the Majors with 257 home runs, and the club parted ways with third baseman Edwin Encarnacion earlier in the week.
Toronto also has a depth of pitching talent available, something that other teams no doubt covet. While the Marlins have acquired three young relievers in the past week (Ryan Webb, Edward Mujica, and Dustin Richardson), they'll no doubt still be on the lookout for young, controllable talent in any return for Uggla.
In a second tweet, Olney also notes that the Rockies were interested in acquiring Uggla midseason in 2010, but the Marlins slugger is likely to be too expensive for their tastes now.
Rzepczynski, plus?
He doesn’t have much value…Here are the two ideas I came up with…
Carlos Perez, Danny Farquahar, and Brad Emaus
Jake Marisnick, Michael McDade, Trystan Magnuson, and Matt Daly.
That first package seems a little heavy and the 2nd one a little light. Though I suppose I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see Arencibia or D’Arnaud + one of the arms.
I could actually see Arencibia and Farquahar going to Florida
Arencibia is worth much more than Uggla. Lets remember…he’d only be here for a year. Florida got barely anything for Maybin who I personally feel is a more valuable asset looking ahead then Uggla, not to mention I believe Maybin’s locked up for 3 years or so.
How does Arencibia have more value then Uggla? Arencibia is not a proven pro.. Uggla is
Arencibia has more potential, his age, his contract value etc
plus hes a catcher.. how many catchers u think can hit over 30 hr or could possible hit 30 hr. Arencibia can!
Exactly my point, Arencibia has proven his worth, I believe it was ESPN saying his first career start was the best they’ve ever seen? You really would give up 4 plus years with an offensively gifted catcher for one year with a guy that strikes out every 3 at bats? Some people don’t understand the value of prospects.
I’d say Rzep plus Emaus, but since the Marlins seem to want bullpen help Trystan Magnuson maybe an attractive prospect.
Wow…if this is true it could really be a sweet bat for the Jays — although with his level of defense it couldn’t hurt to have him DH sometimes.
He’s not amazing, but i’ve seen worst as far as defence is concerned.
With Adam Lind playing first base, Uggla and Macdonald could alternate at 3B.
(I really liked Macdonald at the end of the year) Of course Uggla would get most of the job. Hill was also fine being moved to third base if my memory is right?
John McDonald playing routinely for you is not a recipe for success in the AL East. Sorry. And I’m as big a Johnny Mac fan as you will find.
His defense couldn’t be any worse than E5’s.
JP Arencibia and Mark Rzep? Zach Stewart and Eric Thames?Henderson Alvarez, Jeremy Accardo and Darin Mastroianni?Just spitballing here…
Those are fair combos, I think. I wouldn’t go anywhere near Marcum, Romero, Cecil.
we are talking about Uggla…..
i hope you see wat ATL gave up to get him…
which is pretty much nothing!
Mastroianni’s numbers are a little bit decieving…He’s almost 26 and his SB’s are really the best aspect of his game. I’m not sure the Marlins want anything to do with Accardo and Alvarez isn’t really the top prospect he was…Thames plays the position horrible and Zep doesn’t have much value…
Carlos Perez, Danny Farquahar, and Brad Emaus
Jake Marisnick, Michael McDade, Trystan Magnuson, and Matt Daly.
Those were the two I thought of I posted them up top.
Mastroianni should have been in atleast AAA this year – he probably only stuck in AA due to the playoff run.
He’s also 26 next August, so not quite almost.
My bad, not “almost”, but 25 isn’t exactly prospect status. And he had a great season, I saw him play a lot, but he isn’t as good as his stats suggest…I wouldn’t want him as the centerpiece if I’m the Marlins.
I wouldn’t want him as a centerpiece either, but he’s a nice part in a trade. He also seems to get on base very well, prototypical of a lead-off guy. He is a little old for a prospect, but so is Eric Thames and most Jays fans, including me, are high on him.
his grandma is also really nice to me!
Does she bake awesome cookies?
Not sure, but I’ll make sure to ask next time the Fisher Cats are playing in Trenton.
Uggla seems like a perfect blue jay. A lot of power and homers, (usually) low BA and OBP.
His OBP over last 3 seasons is .360. Sad as it is, that’s actually pretty high for a Blue Jay.
Explain to me how a .360 OBP is “sad”?
I think he would be a perfect Blue Jay.
The sad part was that it qualifies as high for the BJs.
.360 is actually pretty high for any team, given the league average is in the .330’s.
The article mentions that Uggla could be moved to third, but I think Aaron Hill at 3rd might be a better choice given his above-average arm but declining range.
80-90 walks and .360 OBP is low? Plus the power?
Take out his high BABIP ’10 season and his career average OBP is pretty meh. I’m not saying he’s bad, just that his repertoire reminds me of of the 2010 Jays.
huh?
last three years has been .360, .354, and .369.
very decent for a 2b or 3b.
Not much different than his Fielding Percentage.
(Forgive me, I just couldn’t resist)
he is a type A FA he will get a good return of at least a top ready spec/young arm as he will be worth 2 1st rounders not to mention he is open to an extension.
Correction: He is open to an extension on mostly his terms. (He wants 5 years)
For a team that can in the future if need stick him at DH that would be fine. After all he is good for a 340s OBP, 30HR and about 80-100 RBI’s. I think in the parks of the AL East He would be even better.
Either way the fish will get some good value for him most likely they will want to look for a CF or a good young mlb ready arm
Rzepczynski would be a good bet as the centrepiece. I would think the Marlins would love to get a good prospect at an up-the-middle position. Maybe Justin Jackson? Brad Emaus? Kenny Wilson? Antonio Jimenez?
Justin Jackson is not a good prospect.
Unless you’re asking Richard Griffin…the guy loved Jackson
Not good, but the right kind of fielder – he has a better chance at progressing in another organization anyway
I agree, he is too overvalued and really only thrived in the GCL.
What about one of Toronto’s young abundant SP for Uggla?
Drabek
Don’t bring his name in the conversation, especially if it is only for 1-yr of Uggla.
HAHA you wish….. you’d be better off taking Aarencibia and D’Arnaud
An infield with Hill, Escobar, and Uggla would be pretty impressive for the Jays. Also, Adeiny Hechavarria is waiting in the wings. Kind of off topic, but is David Cooper a serious prospect? I have heard some pretty good things about him… But he isn’t really mentioned as a top prospect, although in 2009 he was a top 10 prospect ( in the Jays system, not all of baseball) according to baseball america.
Cooper was only ever considered a good prospect by BA because they take draft position into account whether or not the player deserved to be drafted when he was. Cooper’s a bum; his best-case projection is Lyle Overbay with less walks and below-average defence at 1st base. I’ll be amazed if he ever becomes a major league regular.
He had a horrible 2009 and then didn’t play all that well in 2010. He did start to hit better towards the back half of the season, but he really needs to have a good 2011 in order to not completely fall off the map.
rzep and maybe austin (correction – was stoned: justin) jackson as a throw in? mills or cooper?
I think you’re mistaken; Austin Jackson is with The Tigers. Justin Jackson perhaps?
Heh. I assume he meant Justin, but he has no real value at this point.
jays should just call austin jackson up, he’s the speedy lead off outfielder we need!
rzep doesnt have much value??? he is a young controllable arm with mid rotation potential. probably best starter outside of our projected 5 next year: marcum, morrow, romero, cecil, drabek.
not enough to get a 30 hr hitting 2nd baseman as a centerpiece. More then likely it would be one of the projected 5 for next year that the fish would want honestly.
For one year of Uggla at $10M+? If that’s the type of return they’re looking for, I imagine they’d have a hard time trading him. Scrabble put up a 9.5 K/9 in the minors and in 25 games (23 starts) in the AL East as a 23 and 24 year old, he had an 8.4 K/9 and a 4.32 ERA. He needs to cut down on the walks a bit, but he DEFINITELY has trade value (especially to an NL club)
I’d much rather have Zach Stewart than Rzep.
I could name 10 starting pitchers in the Jays organization who I would rather have than Zep not named Drabek, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow.
Drew Hutchinson
Joel Carreno
Zach Stewart
Asher Wojciechowski
Aaron Sanchez
Henderson Alvarez
Deck McGuire
Griffin Murphy
Noah Syndergaard
Adonis Cardona.
I agree with you on about half. Some of those guys are too far off / unknown at this point. I think Rzep at the minimum would be a #5 in the NL.
I dont see him beating out west for the number 5 spot for us. He would not be an upgrade and enough to trade off a year of an all star 2nd baseman and 2 1st round picks
I fail to see how Hutch, Carreno, or even Cardona have more value than Zep? He’s shown he can pitch in the big leagues. Was solid in 09 and was solid towards the end of ’10. He is still inconsistent but he has strikeout stuff while those guys are perhaps average prospects. Heck, has Cardona even pitched in A ball yet?
I think delivery problems will prevent him from being a Major League Starter and I don’t like his stuff or command despite dominating the Yankees in his last start.
Never said they had more value. Just said they would be more wanted in trades.
Well sorry, you’re wrong.
half of those guys cant be traded at this point because they were just drafted/signed
Yes, but I wasn’t talking about trades. Just pitchers who are better and who I’d rather have in my organization.
better? based on what?
Ya, but you have made it readily clear a number of times that you are not high on Zep.
I’m not
you should be – only person on your list that is anywhere near where he is today is Zach Stewart and he is not ready to pitch a full mlb season. and if that is who the fish want for uggla; AA would say good day and good luck. He will be in the mix for either Rasmus or Grienke.
Not at all. He is extremely overrated and wouldn’t fetch Greinke or Rasmus at all in my opinion.
Where would they put Uggla???
Pitcher. They could never have enough.
Oh I don’t know, Third base?
Yeah and while your at it sign Matsui and put him in CF, If he’s bad on 2nd he’s going to be worse on 3rd
You’ve got the defensive spectrum backwards, pal.
I’d be fine with getting him unless we’re giving up a whole lot.
But I still don’t understand how it makes sense to acquire him unless the Jays are going to go out and sign Crawford and other FA to make a push for the playoffs.
A) Crawford isn’t coming to the Jays (AA won’t match Angels’ highest bid, Carl doesn’t like turf.
B) Who says this is AA’s only move?
C) Jays may very well compete with Uggla at 3B. Or even offer him an extension.
D) If they tank at beginning of year, AA can trade Uggla at deadline.
E) Or hang onto him and get picks at end of year.
I can go on…. I’m so tired of hearing Jays fans go “we’ll compete in 2 years”. Every year I hear this, enough already.
Actually, I’m starting to think that the only reason why they want to get Uggla is to get picks at the end of next year.
Which isn’t as good an idea as it sounds, depending on what they give up. If the prospects they give up have a similar ceiling to what they’ll get in an A pick (I assume Uggla will be an A type when he’s a FA), than they lost out. It’s better to have the more developed prospect.The picks are nice to fall back on, but I agree that the only reason to trade for Uggla is if you think you can compete.
We can compete. All of our top four starters showed flashes of extreme brilliance last year, and they’re all young. Marcum is the oldest, and he’s not even that old at all. Drabek is young and untested, but has a high ceiling with his stuff. Offensively, we have nothing to worry about, especially if the Jays get Uggla. Our only problem is the bullpen. And that’s a serious problem.
If Pettitte retires/ the Yankees don’t sign Cliff, they’re going to struggle.
The Rays are losing Crawford and Pena, both excellent defenders, and Crawford an offensive beast. Again a loss.
Red Sox will improve next season, a lot.
Orioles need not be mentioned.
“unless we’re giving up a lot”
Are you kidding? Dan Uggla is one of the best offensive 2B in baseball and you don’t think they will have to give up a lot. The Marlins don’t even have to trade him they could sign him for one year and then recieve their draft picks. You can bet that the Marlins will be asking for Drabek. If they don’t get him I think the Marlins interest for trading with the Jays will disappear. The Marlins already stated that they are asking for a big time player in a deal.
“You can bet that the Marlins will be asking for Drabek”And then you can bet that the Jays GM will hang up the phone after. Then again, you were the guy that said that the Marlins should trade Dan Uggla for Colby Rasmus.
your out of your mind if you think they will give up drabek…. dan ugla for 10plus for one year…. and best offensive secxond basemen? he would be the worst second basemen in the AL east… maybe tied for last as roberts, cano, and pedroa are all better, and marlins are cheap they wont want to spend 10 mill on him this year
They offered him 12 mil a year and he said no. Nice try trying to call the Marlins cheap there.
I’m enjoying your passion for the Marlins. However, there is no way Drabek gets traded to the Marlins. Book it. Drabek projects as a top of the rotation starter. Uggla has one year left on his contract and a high salary.
If it’s Drabek or nothing than the fish are being narrow minded…there are plenty of interesting prospects and possible trade combinations with the Jays
i agree, very unlikely to trade a single bluechip prospect for an established major leaguer. more likely to be some kind of convoluted multiplayer, perhaps even multiteam, deal. AA is crafty, so it will probably be something unexpected
uggla has great numbers, as close as you can get to a shoe-in 30HR 90RBI guy. yet he has had a couple nasty years with the BA, and i wonder how his numbers translate in the AL east. he seems to be an aaron hill doppleganger (assuming aaron’s BA returns to respectability next year), but with worse D.
lol nooooo
You guy don’t have a clue haha.
No that would be you.
Why would Jays trade Drabek for Uggla at all? They barely got him for Halladay with extension and Uggla meanwhile is a rental and pretty crappy defensively at 2nd base.
Wishful thinking.
I’m not saying they would I said that the Marlins would ASK for that.
And they would get REJECTED.
“Barely”? I think it should have been Dom Brown plus Drabek for Halladay
Should have been… but did we get it? We asked for it but we were rejected.
lol nothing. uggla is a hell of a player, and worth it.
His defense isn’t worth anything
I think it would be totally fair to judge Uggla based on his play in the all-star game two years ago.
That being said, the fabled power of Mike Jacos will do for Uggla, straight up.
loooooooooooooooooool
an uggla-nunez package would be nice seeing as the jays are also in the market for a closer, tho the pricetag increases of course
i would love Uggla but im not sure he fits the jays mold now unless they can sign him to an extension. He is 30 which is not old but not young either. 1 yr left then is a fa…doesnt hit for a high average or have a ton of speed…another power bat which im not sure we nec need i guess it depends on what we have to give up to get him.
I would move uggla to 3rd and let hill play 2nd. Hecheverria is gonna be the 2nd baseman of the future so why switch hill and then uggla to 2nd in a year when hech is ready. I think hill will be dealt next year if he rebounds esp if they get uggla.
Why would they put him on 3rd if he was terrible on 2nd base, thats like putting a Matsui type fielder in CF
Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn’t make it any less wrong.
or funnier
Batting average is useless. He gets on-base more than any Blue Jay other than Jose Bautista (last year). Which is EXACTLY what the Jays need. Also Hecheverria is the SS of the future not 2B.
actually the jays plan on switchin hech to 2nd base next year so to me that means he is the second baseman of the future, plan is to keep escobar and his strong arm at short….either way i would still move uggla to 3rd
“actually the jays plan on switchin hech to 2nd base next year”
Post me your source on this.
it was on a prime time sports show with bob mccown talking to a jays front office guy. they asked the possibility on why hill would be moved to third and if esco would move, the jays guy said the future is esco at short and hech at 2nd atm and hech is gonna play there next year…ill try and find the link for that particular show
You’ve got it backwards. It’s been suggested that if Hechavarria was ready while Escobar was still around Escobar would probably move to 2B.
Please do not take McCown’s word as a serious baseball source. Thank you. Escobar will probably be on his way out when Hech is ready full time.
Agreed. I think McCown likes the sound of his own voice!
Remember when McCown said than Kyle Drabek sucks compared to Mark Rzep? Ugh.
that is true. I see the potential drabek has i for one am not completely sold he is ace material though. I guessi havent watched too much of him so that could be why but going strickly by the numbers, Zack Stewart outpiched Drabek in double a this year but yet Drabek is considered alot higher then stewart. I have heard alot about both pitchers and would consider both elite prospect for the jays pitching arms.
Am i wrong in this assumtion??
you need to learn about sarcasm.
The Jays are switching Hech to second? Who told you that bullocks?
DJF kindof says the same thing. surprised me too. i thought hech was SS of future and that is how we signed him over the yanks (he did not want to be behind jeter) mind you yanks also indicated they want to convert him to o/f not 2nd so that could have been the deal breaker not moving from ss to 2b.
I don’t know… Uggla’s career numbers are very unattractive at the Rogers Centre…
And exactly how many games has he played there? 6? Ever heard of sample sizes dude?
the answer is three. you take everything on here a little too serious bud. obviously it was joke.
It’s sometimes hard to tell the serious posts from the joke ones… Sorry!
Now here’s a career line I like – .310/.414./.776 at AT&T Park
now that is awesome my friend don’t forget to include 8 homeruns
sounds like AA grabbing a player who the marlins cannot afford worst case scenario he walks and Jays get compensation pics, hecouldget shipped at the deadline after he joins right handed home run hitting pradise AKA Rogers centre, or get resigned…. no way he nets any of the starting 5 including drabek… Rzep, Alvarez, thames/emaus…. get it done
? no way he lands one of the starting 5? hahaha
Is Mike Stanton involved in the trade too?
Have you ever watched one Marlin game Hullo? Uggla is one hell of a player. If you think the Marlins are going to get rzepczynski or some mediocre prspect you have to be CRAZY. Uggla better almost .290 with 30 bombs and 100 RBI. Most of you blue jay fans have no idea how good Uggla is with your trade speculations. Drabek will be what the Marlins are asking for without a doubt.
Oh I understand quite well how good Uggla is. But the fact remains that it is one year at 10$ million for Dan Uggla. That doesn’t take a blue-chip prospect; a top 50 prospect yes. (D’Arnaud, Stewart, etc). The Marlins can ask for Kyle Drabek, but AA won’t trade him for Dan Uggla.
Uggla will not be a Blue Jay then. Plain and simple.
Can I rent your crystal ball, sir? The jays have a bunch of very good SP prospects and MLB ready (controllable) arms. You wouldn’t want guys like Henderson Alvarez, Zach Stewart or Marc Rzepczynski? You, my friend, are being ridiculous.
Lol okay… I’m sure the Jays will live.
You can ASK for it but it certainly doesn’t mean you will get it from the Jays or any team. No team is going to give up a top 25 prospect for a rental who is all offense.
I can’t wait to see you after Marlins get mediocre prospects in return for Uggla
I can’t wait to see marlinsfanatic after Marlins get mediocre prospects in return for Uggla
Yeah but Uggla is midiocre defender at best, his numbers will most likely go down from last season, especially since not only will he be in the AL, but he’ll be in the AL East and would have to see pitchers like CC, Lester, Price, and MAYBE Pettitte, Cliff Lee, a Beckett that won’t be as bad as last years, Garza, Matusz and much more so you have to put that into consideration
totally harder then halladay, santana, hamels, etc etc in the nl east and hitting in a pitchers park. To be fair he would most likely hit more homeruns there in toronto also his numbers for walks have been increasing on the trend.
I am not saying he will be a top 5 player but he will be a very good player for the jays.
I love how people believe that the teams outside the AL East have inferior pitching… come to the NL West or NL East and see how deep the pitching goes. Plugging Uggla in that Jays lineup would be a huge boost for them and would make them a legit threat to win the East. No he’s not worth a Drabek but the Marlins should get a nice package of players from which ever team he goes to.
I just wish the Giants could figure out a way to make Uggla work with the guys they already have locked up because they could put together a nice package around some of the relievers (Romo, Runzler) plus a prospect.
The simple fact that you’re only one-for-three on quoting actual useful baseball statistics here precludes any chance at credibility you might have had. No modern baseball braintrust cares about batting average or RBI’s when they can look at OBP or OPS+.
Look over his OPS+ and OPS over the past 3-4 years, they are perfectly fine. I never understood why fans of teams seem to downgrade players when they want to trade for him as if the GM’s are reading the board waiting for us to propose the best deals (not directed at you in particular pike).
I can only go off of hat I have seen of the players on both teams from watching the fish down here in florida and watching the yanks play the jays when I can.
All of that said the fish will be searching for pitching as a centerpiece most likely as they always seem to. I disagree with fanatic as I do not see drabek going anywhere at all.
Oh no, I wasn’t saying Uggla wasn’t a great hitter (especially for a middle infielder.) I was just objecting to the valuation of a player based on his batting average and RBI’s. You’re absolutely right that Uggla puts up outstanding numbers in both OBP and OPS+, and I think he’d be a great pickup for the Jays if he doesn’t cost Drabek. I really don’t want to see them move Marisnick or McDade in an Uggla trade either, but obviously you have to give to get. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Just think about it. AA does not see the Jays as a contender right now. Presumably adding Uggla does not put you over the top. So why would he mortgage the future by trading away one of their top 5 pitching arms, all of which are well under team control? It wouldn’t make any sense, particularly because Uggla only has one year left.
Nooo don’t trade yourself!
dont think money is the issue if the fish just offered him 4 years 48 million. Again the fish have a need for a starter, a CF, and some extra arms for the bp (really handled already with the 3 already picked up).
They will ask for along for him as worst case they keep him and trade him midseason for a good amount or lose him after the season for 2 1st rounders. The fish are not trading from weakness.
Do I expect a ransom? Nope, but they should get a good amount from the trade.
I think it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that Lind or Hill could be going the other way. Both are signed to fairly inexpensive contracts. The fish still are trying to compete, as evident in the Maybin trade and offering Uggla 4/$12MM.
Why would Toronto give up on Lind at his absolute lowest value for a pending FA who wants a monster contract and is 30 years old?
Just because they offered uggla that contract doesn’t mean they are in the market to spend 50 million on a contract..
It makes much more sense to get back cheap controllable players whenever possible, being the marlins it just makes that much more sense..
and not to mention lind isn’t field tested so i doubt marlins ask for him not knowing if he could stick at 1st or lf for a full season.
that sux
Whoever thinks Uggla is going to play 3rd base must be smoking something, Uggla won’t play 3rd because if he does he probably will break the record for most errors in MLB history
Jays fans have had to watch Edwin Encarnacion for the past year and a half. At this point, ANYONE is an upgrade.
A fence post with a glove hung on it is a defensive upgrade over E5
whats the fence posts obp?
counting hit by pitch, walks and bunts? About the same as E5. Mind you it’s also followed by a a guy with a big hammer.
I think you’re smoking something if you think Uggla is better suited to 2B than 3B. Hill, while not stellar, has more range and is better defensively than Uggla at 2B.
his defense stinks, that’s why he’s moving to 3rd, which is a relatively easier position. Man, so many retards here.
His arm ranks in the bottom 3rd amongst ML 2B and now we assume he can handle 3rd? I understand he will hit 30 HR’s but I don’t see him being what the Jays need. They would be wise to let their young talent develop and set up for a run in 2012…this isnt the time to trade a Young catcher (Which is what FLA is going to want) or any other young assets for a one year 10 Mil dollar type of player
Going out on a limb here, but I wonder whether the Jays’ interest in Uggla is linked to the rumours linking Manny with the Jays.
In other words, two low-risk guys who could strengthen the lineup for an outside playoff push. Manny would be a one year deal, with Uggla deadline trade bait/possible extension/extra draft picks.
Escobar (SS)
Snider (LF)
Bautista (RF)
Ramirez (DH)
Wells (CF)
Uggla (3B)
Lind (1B)
Hill (2B)
Arencibia (C)
Heh, that’d be a scary hitting lineup.
haha. do you follow me on twitter?
I don’t do The Twitter, but I’ll assume great minds think alike 😉
My only problem with this is Adam Lind playing 1B. That could be a disaster.
Agree. But then…it isn’t a “big push” lineup. Uggla and Ramirez would be flexible options, and AA would be continuing to stock the farm with next year’s deep draft. There’s very little to lose, so it could be a good year to find out if Lind’s got what it takes.
That should have been last year…. I’m so glad Cito gave us a good look at Lind at 1B. At least Overbay will get that big contract now right Clarence? Right?!
There were more important things to consider, like that kid Tallet getting in his clutch innings.
Well cito said tallet needed 20 HR’s for his next contract so he kept running him out there until he hit the milestone.
And Buck needed to pitch in 9th inning situations. Cito can’t hear us because he has 2 WS rings in his ears.
i love cito, his contributions to the city are undeniable.. but unfortunately, the game evolved far beyond him.
Agreed, he was walking class and gained the respect of the country, peers and players but the old school mythology just didn’t work the second time ’round. Can’t wait to see what Farrell can do.
we survived with Delgago.. Lind played 1B in college he’s not that bad
and realistically overbay last year slipped defensively a lot,
either way we’ll survive, i think its really important to get lind out dh spot to free up options.
I’m unclear as to why the Jays are so hot for Uggla.
a) Do they really need another power but that ko’s over 150 x a year? They already led baseball in HRS and KOs last year and you would think they would rather acquire a solid contact hitter w/ some pop instead. He adds nothing defensively so why make this deal?
b) He’s a FA in 2012. Either they need to extend him starting in his early 30’s – mid 30’s years or he walks and in exchange they get 2 1st rnd picks in place of the bundle of “vetted” prospect they would give up. Being that they aren’t considered an “elite” team yet does this deal make sense for them either in the short-term or long term aspect?
A) Contact hitters are meaningless. Joe Inglett batted .300 for them, why’d they let him go? Dan Uggla would instantly become top 3 Jay in OBP. Which is what matters.
B) AA trades prospects he doesn’t want for Uggla. He either trades Uggla at deadline for prospects he wants or waits and gets the 2 draft picks which he chooses. What’s not to get?
I am so tired of hearing from Yankee and Red Sox fans about how Toronto, Baltimore, etc should only be going after prospects and not established players since they are so far off.
Oh and before you respond to “trades prospects he doesn’t want”. I am not saying that the prospects are trash. Just that they are prospects (JP Arencibia for example?) that AA might not be as fond of as other organizations are.
In response to both your posts.
-Contact hitters are meaningless? Ok, how well did those all or nothing hitters work for you last year? 1st in hrs but among the worst in the AL in OBP, Bat Avg and Hits. You were also middle of the pack in RUNS despite leading in HRS. Now maybe I should’ve explained that by “contact hitter” I meant someone who puts the bat on the ball more, draws walks and doesn’t KO 150 x a year like Uggla does.
-AA trades prospects he doesn’t want? Well it’s not going to be a one sided trade. Marlins are going to want a package of high upside mlb ready prospects. They are not going to accept a deal centered around mlb mid rotation starters already on the arbitration clock. Expect them to ask for some combo of prospects along the line of a Drabek, D’Arnaud, McGuire, Arencibia, Gose and Hechavarria. I can’t imagine a deal happening w/o some of those guys being involved to trust me, AA will have to trade players that he wants.
-And as for their future competitiveness, you haven’t heard me say anything negative about the Jays. They have one of the best young rotations in all of baseball and did a great job of beating the Yanks this year. However, what they lack, and what they need aren’t more HRS and more KOs. They led the league in HRS by a wide margin and history shows that it’s darn near impossible to simply bludgeon every team out there. Using valuable prospects to simply pad HR totals isn’t going to do it and it doesn’t address any of the teams needs like OBP (Bautista was the only guy w/ an OBP over .340), SB (last in the AL w/ 58), Bat Avg (.248 team bat avg) and weakens the team defense by either supplanting a superior defensive 2B like Hill or moving Uggla to 3B, a position he hasn’t played more than 10 games in AA back in 2005.
To me, it’s not unreasonable for the Jays to pass the Rays and become a legit competitor for the AL East w/ one or two of the right pickups. IF they were concerned with obtaining a player with eyes on competing and/or possibly flipping a player at the deadline then I would suggest Agonz over Uggla because at least with Agonz you satisfy more of your needs. You improve the defense overall and at 1B. You add OBP (avg .400 OBP last 2 years), patience and contact ability as well as getting the same amount of power that Uggla brings.
For the most part, the Marlins have done a decent job of getting good returns on trades (Cabrera being the exception in retrospect) and I think what it would take to get Uggla would be better used to acquire other mlb players. Jays can afford to spend money as well so if they want a 3B why not just sign Beltre?
everything you said is correct,
what you’re missing is the context of the situation… While it would be better to get a more obp, speedy type of player. They either a) aren’t available or b) dont plug a hole
the other point missing from your point is the fact that, as we’ve seen already a few times, AA likes to buy low on players (esco, morrow, buck, gonzalez) now while uggla’s value isn’t low, AA may be able to get a decent deal for him.
Its like if you have a lot of sweaters, but a really nice sweater goes on sale, even though you should be spending your money on pants, because you need pants, you end up buying the sweater.. because its on sale.
agonz will cost better prospects, beltre will get a contract that far exceeds his worth.
Would Uggla really play a role when you have Hill @ 2B? True he has a horrible year aside from his 26 hrs but he’s still a better defensive 2B. If you move Uggla to 3B you’re going to thet the HRS but who knows what you’ll get defensively.
Any trade should be measure by what you got vs what you gave up but it’s completely absurd to think that Uggla won’t command a great package. Ppl are calling him an “elite” 2b in one comment and then expecting him to be acquired simply by what AA “doesn’t want”. No reason to expect him to be had for less than 1 top 5 prospect and at least 1 or 2 additional in the top 10. And to compare Uggla to a “sweater on sale” doesn’t quite do it for me. He’s the only 2B w/ at least 30 hrs in each of the last 4 years and it would be absurd to think the Marlin’s won’t get fair market value for him.
I called him a very nice sweater, it fit the analogy.
I didn’t say you’re going to land him for a package full of fluff, but the jays have surplus arms and catching, to say that arencibia, rzep, stewart, anyone else mentioned isn’t good just because they would be included is like saying that because montero has been dangled as bait somehow means the yankees “dont want him” and thus depreciates his value..
I would guess that the Jays are looking at it a bit like the Mariners looked at their cliff Lee acquisition last year. Yeah, they’re not the favorites, or anywhere close in the AL East next year, but if the Rays lose their three big FAs and the Red Sox don’t have a big off-season, the Jays do have a chance to make a run if some things turn there way. Not saying it’s a big chance, but it’s a chance. So if they like the price Florida is asking for Uggla, why not make the acquisition? If they’re out of the race by the trade deadline, they should be able to flip him, and might even get back better value than they gave up (like the Mariners did). And maybe they just hang onto him and get the two draft picks in 2012.
And hey – Anthopoulos is quite the creative guy. For all we know he wants Uggla because he’d be a great piece to flip to another team before April comes around.
They could also trade him at the deadline. Also, they just opened a spot at 3B by waiving Encarnacion, and unloading his $5MM contract. Upgrade for ~$5MM + trade return for a better 3B option + possible return from trade deadline or Type A compensation.
If the Jays add another piece, say Dunn or Manny to DH, with Uggla, things may look a little different in the AL East in 2011, no?
If the Jays signed Manny to a 1-year deal and he has a monster 1st half, he too could be trade bait. AA seems to operate in misdirection and it works.
I agree with you on the ko aspect of his game and the suspect defensive skills. But you can’t deny a career .349 OBP and 4 straight 30+ home run seasons.
Probably see how things go until the trade deadline comes and if need be could move him then.
Or, he swings a good stick, Jays are doing pretty good and see what he wants for a contract.
uggla at third would be nice at third but we need to concentrate on getting a first baseman because i don’t think lind will play 1st properly because he hasn’t played enough games at first
Stewart, Thames, Jenkins for Uggla. thats as much as they can get, thats 2 mlb ready prospects and a future mid to top rotation starter 18 years of service for 1 year of uggla.
that sounds too expensive, much too expensive.
Well Uggla is a good bat, and I am assuming that the Jays would sign him to an extension.Realistically Stewart is a 24 year old converter reliever who dominated AAThames has over come injuries and had a very strong year, but again is 24. Jenkins to me is the only stud piece. The other 2 are disposable because realistically they are too old to be in the minors and won’t make the 2011 squad.
Any chance this potential deal is bigger than we think – with the Marlins including one of their first basemen (Sanchez or Morrison)? I realize Morrison’s been playing LF, but his defense hasn’t been rated well there, especially for a team looking to go in a pitching/defense direction.
Logan’s ceiling is Lyle Overbay. Pass.
I agree – but I would call it pre-wrist injury Lyle Overbay, and that guy was pretty great.
maybe sanchez but I dont see them moving morrison
Gaby could become available team stated before, but then Marlins would need Morrison to go back to the infield and Coghlan stays in LF. Then we are screwed at 2B, CF and 3B if we trade Uggla.
Arencebia, Rzepcenski, Jenkins/Stewart will do.
Difference between Jenkins and Stewart is big IMO.
Yeah, with Stewart in that deal it becomes a completely laughable suggestion.
Jenkins is a far more coveted piece at this point.
Was that a joke? For what is he more coveted? Batting practice?
I don’t think anybody anywhere views Jenkins as having front line potential. He’s a groundball guy who doesn’t miss many bats. He also didn’t rank in the Jays top 10 prospects recently, whereas the apparently less coveted Stewart came in at no. 5.
ohh here we go, typical jays fans prospect hype
stewart is a converted reliever who dominated AA as a 25 year old. He’s still not stretched out to go a full season as a starter, ( will be limited to 160 innings next year) which means he won’t be able to be a major league starter until he’s 27, 28? how can you even consider him a prospect? If you’re a pitcher and 25 and still not in the bigs, there’s usually a reason.
I guess Bowman, Lubanski and Loewen are high on your radar too? What about Jeremy Accardo, did he crack the Jays top 10?
Last year we’re you one of the people wondering why Randy Ruiz wasn’t called up yet?
Stewart is 24 and wasn’t sent to AAA because it’s a bandbox and hitter’s league. Technically he could step in as the Jays #5 starter at the beginning at the upcoming season. So I fail to see how he won’t reach the majors until age 28.
24 sorry. but my point still stands. ..
he’s 24 and he pitched 136 innings this year.
AA has stated that pitchers won’t be escalated in workload past 20% increase from their previous year total. Which means he’ll be capped at 160 innings and will need another year of seasoning as a starter before he could handle close to 200 needed to be a starter on a big league club.
So technically speaking he has zero chance of making the club next year. No way he beats out any of the top 4, and Drabek for the 5th spot based on workload alone.
zero chance? wow buddy….
and the reason he is 24 and still in the minors is because he is being converted into a starter…. he could of made the majors last year in the bullpen… you clearly aren’t high on stewart which is fine, no need to go on like “typical jays fan hype” like you know what your talking about… how many times have you seen stewart pitch? what if drabek struggles what about an injury? don’t go tossing around zero chance like you are the gm or coach
ok so your reasoning is what if drabek struggles or gets injured, well I will counter act that what if, with a what if Zack’s arm falls off??
and yes he could move to the bullpen, show me where I said anywhere that he can’t be on the team next year. Moving him to the bullpen at this point depreciates his value, so that doesn’t make much sense. I said he cant be in the starting rotation because he isn’t ready for an entire workload and the Jays have options who can handle a full year’s workload.
And yes I’ve seen stewart pitch about 4 times,
so before you jump in to an argument you should really comprehend it first so you don’t look foolish and emotional
Bio
Position: RHP
School: Kennesaw State University
Drafted: 20th overall in 2009 by the Toronto Blue Jays
Scouting Report: Jenkins is a strong, thick-bodied right-hander who’ll touch 93 and sit 89-92 and was still up to 91 in the eighth inning of his start on Saturday. He throws a hard slider at 83-85 mph with good tilt but a somewhat early break and a straight changeup at 82-85 that might be more effective if he could take a little more off it. His delivery is rough, and he looks unschooled; his arm is way up above his shoulder, he lands on a very stiff front leg and his arm slot varies from three-quarters to low three-quarters. He has a starter’s build and starter’s stuff, but a team drafting him may have to work on his mechanics to leave him in the rotation. He has a chance to develop into a No. 2 or No. 3 starter, but not without some significant improvements.
I’m not sure what that was supposed to show. So he has the absolute upside of a no. 2 or no. 3 starter but “NOT WITHOUT MAKING SOME SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS.”How exactly is that special? I’m not saying he’s useless by any means. I’m merely saying he’s not ranked higher than Stewart.
dude, I’m not in to fighting with people on the internet, you have your opinion I have mine. I don’t think I’m being that absurd either. I mean Jenkins has already thrown more innings then Stewart, he’s a big body that AA has made a point to say he’s targeting. I know that his numbers weren’t sparkling, but they made him lay off his slider and throw a lot of change-ups this year, especially when he moved up, in an effort to improve that pitch.
I may have under valued Stewart, but i still think Jenkins has a lot of value, he was picked in the first round just last year. Cheers.
What? Zach Stewart’s value is far superior to Chad Jenkins.
I don’t get people’s obsession with Zep. He’s a #4 starter. Uggla’s going to be a type A free agent and will be in demand if we don’t trade him at the deadline, so you’d have to think that the Jays would have to give up at least two top ten prospects.
Stewart would have to be dealt if were not going to deal Drabek. I could see Stewart, D’Arnauld/Perez, and maybe someone like Magnuson. Two pitcher you can plug in now and a future catcher with promise to help push Skipworth.
Calling a guy who’s posted an 8.42 k/9 and a groundball ratio north of 50% in 125 big league innings a 4th starter really seems like jumping the gun. Those aren’t attributes you find in a pitcher every day, and who’s to say he never finds better control?
125 big league innings wow, thats a pretty solid sample size. He also has a 4.32 walk rate in those 125 innings which isn’t so good but I wouldn’t say he has bad control based on that amount of innings.
From watching him I’d say his walk problem stems from him really being just a two pitch pitcher. He does throw a changeup, but its below average. If he could get his changeup up to a major league average pitch then I would say he is better than a #4 starter.
so you mock him for using small sample size, but then go ahead and post a 4.32 bb rate in that same sample size??
No, I was proposing that his ceiling as a starter had nothing to do whatsoever with his walk rates,groundball rates or strikeout rates. The sample sizes are too small to get anything from it. To predict talent based on his skills to induce strikeouts and grounders based on less then 500 professional innings is a little pointless for a guy who has only been pitching for three years.
Yes, I agree there was no need for sarcasm on my part and that was me being lazy. Since the sarcasm was in the first line of the first paragraph that means the whole paragraph was meant in a mocking tone. The second paragraph though I still believe that any problems or advantages from Rzeps game stems from his current position of being a two pitch pitcher. You can check up the stats on how well those pitches have faired in his professional career. Since were working with such a small sample size, to look at actual pitches thrown and how those have done, I would argue would be more effective at showing Zeps true talent level. I do apologize for the sarcasm it was just a lazy way of writing and making my point.
No need to be condescending just because I’m not in agreement with your assessment of his talent. Especially when you go on to claim that his walk problem is a result of his pitch repertoire as opposed to sample size. If his K and groundball ratios aren’t legitimate, then why would his walks be? Nothing about his minor league numbers seem to really suggest that they’re a fluke.
The “Rz” has a 3.5 career minor lge BB/9 rate and a mlb career avg of 4.3. His FB tops out at about 89-91 mph and his CH is mediocre. He has a career ERA of 4.32 and a career FIP of 4.36. He induces a lot of GB @ about 51% based on decent offspeed stuff. Those types of pitchers have trouble sustaining their stuff. He projects to be a Jon Garland type pitcher, which is NOT a bad thing, but really makes him no better than a #3 guy on a bad team and a number #5 on most good teams.
I do agree Lazer, I apologize for the tone. YanksFan is right though. If you take his ability to induce grounders and strikeouts in less then 400 innings in the minors then you need to appreciate his walkrate and era as indicative of future sucess as well. Zep has the base to be a very good #3-4, but if he had a change he could def help his stock, but he’s still young so only time will tell.
I hope they sign Uggla if only to prove to the fanbase that Rogers intends to spend with the big boys when the talent is available.
We won’t give up Arencibia for one year of Uggla.
it is multiple years or 1 year and 2 top flight prospects (2 1sts)
so he is worth more then a power catcher with poor defense (reportedly poor never got to see him personally)
Where has it been reported that Arencibia is poor defensively? I’ve mostly heard that he’s about average, and that seemed about right from what little we got to see of him catching in the bigs this year so I have no reason to doubt it.
Why not? Arencibia is nothing special. Especially with D’Arnaud and Perez down the line.
Relying on prospects in A ball panning out does not a good plan for the future make.
Don’t get me wrong, I like both of those guys, but the lower down in the minors you get the higher the burnout rates of prospects become.
At this point trading Arencibia may not bring back full value for him. I do agree that he’s prob 3rd or 4th on the depth charts of catchers in the system.. but if he establishes himself gets a year or 2 under his belt, his value may skyrocket.
If we could use him to get rasmus, then i’d change my tone, but to bring back uggla, i just dont think its worth it. . might as well just bite the bullet and sign beltre.
Triple A MVP? I think that his value is high… but you seem to know it all so I will trust your judgement
So a players value is highest coming off a AAA Mvp season? It can’t go any higher is what you’re saying, well then we should trade him quickly!
geeze give it a rest, you’re such an emotional tool. Do these guys take you for dinner and tuck you in at night?
how is that emotional? lol you clearly have never been with a woman if that is emotional to you…. and no I did not say it can’t go any higher im just saying it is high in my opinion stop replying with rewording incorrectly what I said then ending with some sort of 12 year old chirp
What happened to all the Arencibia hype? People were flipping out before and after his first game and now fans are bringing him up in every trade offer.
Edit: I’m not saying I think he is anything special either (I was a person trying to suppress the hype as usual) but after praising the guy I’ve seen fans who would rather him just be gone.
I don’t get the deal with people giving up on the guy either after what, 50 big league at bats? And even at that with zero consistency in playing time. After the year he had in the PCL I really think you need to at least try him out full time in the lineup for one year to see what you have in him, instead of just assuming that he’s peaked and throwing him to the curb as trade bait.
I think it has to do with the realization that he’s not the best catcher in the system..
Personally I dont think its wise to flip him at this point, especially with no other catching options past high A ball.
The jays have been mentioned in rumours with pretty much every player that has been or may be put on the market. Theres no depth in any other spot except pitching, so its just a matter of wanting pieces back and sacrificing the closest lamb
And one last thing directed towards people who know the Jay’s system, What is so special about d’Arnaud? I realize he was a big piece of the Halladay trade but from his stats I don’t see anything special. He strikes out a pretty high % (21.5%) and only walked 20 times with limited power and a low batting average. Plus he was 21 at high A. Is this an example of a pitchers league or something? Or is it injury related because from his stats I don’t see the hype from his stats.
every jays prospect is the best prospect ever.
no follow up questions please.
second only to every Red Sox prospect thank you very much.
um no… He was playing injured this year had a bad year has the tools and has had a good year in A already… If it was only about numbers JEroloman would be good
#81 rated prospect in baseball by BA. Go read a scouting report or something.
They say his best tool is power and he hit 6 HRs in over 250 ABs so I was wondering whether this was just ballpark or him just not reaching his potential this season. And being #81 ranked prospect means nothing to me. Bryan Bullington was rated 53rd best prospect by them in 2003.
Bullington was the example you came up with ?
Brandon Wood was ranked #3 for petes sake!!
Fine, Todd Van Poppel ranked #1, #3, and #7 during a 3 year span.
D’Arnaud was suffering from a back injury all season that killed his season after a hot start. He was sent home early this winter to focus on getting healthy to try and get everything working again. He’s a well tooled player that calls an above average game already, hence the rave reviews. Defensively he’s almost MLB ready, so people are happy to gamble on the hitting tools developing.
Whats wrong with Uggla at 1st?
The majority of Uggla’s value, or what makes him “elite” is his production as a 2B. As of 2010 there were 5 2B that had more than 18 hrs. Add Phillips, Utley and Kinsler as guys capable of doing it when healthy. That’s only 8 power hitting 2B. In 2010 there were 16 1B that had 20+ hrs. Add Berkman, Morneau, Lee, Youks and Morales to the list and that’s 20 guys capable of producing 20 + hr years @ 1B. None of those 20+ HR 2B are available on the open market this winter but there are about 10 1B who are available this winter as FA and a couple that are on the trade market that will give you 20-25 hrs + w/ their eyes closed. Dan Uggla would still be considered among the better offensive 1B if he made the switch but no where near as revered as he is playing 2B.
very well said..
funny enough that none of the 20+ hr 2b’s are available, yet the team rumoured to want him is a team that has a power hitting 2b locked up (potentially) until 2014
As a Fish fan, I don’t want to see Danny go anywhere. I want him to look at the very fair deal the team offered him and realized how huge that was coming from the perrenially penny-pinching team, I want the Marlins owenrship and FO to stop acting like vengeful teenage girls and for the two of them to throw their emotions out the window and look at the business decision.
Personally, I don’t think Dan goes anywhere till the trade dealine if they can’t get a deal done. With as hard and painful as it is going to be to part w/ such an offensive mainstay in the middle of our order, no way the Marlins FO doesn’t stick to their guns and make it painful for the trading partner to part w/ some of their top talent. I think most GM’s would love to have Dan in their lineups, just not at the price Beinfest and Co are going to demand.
So, I think the Marlins shrewedly make no move now and wait for some desparate playoff contender in need of power to come knocking in July. They will be much more likely to part w/ those coveted prospects at that time, even for a few month rental. That’s if they don’t agree on the extension.
I still say get the deal done. Like my wife said today, is he that much more a risk at 35 than 34? Give him a conditional 5th year w/ performance-based triggers and a hefty buy-out. That way, Uggs wins by getting paid closed to what he was looking for if they buy out that 5th year, the Marlins win if Danny produces past his prime enough to trigger the 5th year.
It’s nice to dream.
Arencibia, Zep and Emaus seems about right to me. Gives the fishies two high upside kids and a solid AAAA player in Emaus.
Zep is a mid/back rotation finesse pitcher and Emaus is a 25 yo who may not have enough power to play 3B or a corner OF spot and his defense was too bad for him to play 2B in the minors. Arencibia is a good start but would probably require more than the other 2 you mentioned
I wouldn’t exactly call a LHP who sits 88-91 a “finesse” pitcher. Rzep was an extreme GB pitcher who missed bats in the minors with decent control, and keeps the ball in the park. He’s done a commendable job in his introduction to the majors, and the Blue Jays are still stretching him out in the AFL, where he’s 3-0 in 5 starts 26ip 21h 8bb 20k 0.69era 0hr and is killing worms all day. I think he could easily be a solid #3 over 180ip in the NL as soon as 2011, especially in a park like Miami that depresses HR to LF.
Rzepczynski, Arencibia, and someone like Henderson Alvarez seems like a fair place to start.
Being a lefty vs a righty doesn’t determine whether or not you’re a finesse or a power pitcher. Derek Holland, Sabathia, Lester, Price are all guys that throw over 94 -96 mph and are considered power guys. I’m not saying that the “Rz” is a bad pitcher. However, using a pitcher who’s complete upside if he reaches his potential is that of a #3 starter in a pitcher friendly NL park isn’t what I’d expect to center a deal for Uggla. If Uggla is considered an elite,power hitting 2B like Utley and Cano then he should attract elite prospects/players and “Rz” isn’t elite. I would also say that the Marlins would rather go for a guy in the minors with the potential to be a #1 or #2 vs a guy in the majors who has shown himself to be a #3-#5.
Rz being a solid #3 in the NL was my prognosis for 2011…he IS the guy in the minors with the potential to be a #1 or a #2! Add in Arencibia + some SP arms that are far away and you have a decent package for Uggla. If you think the Marlins can do better than that, please tell how and from who.
“In a second tweet, Olney also notes that the Rockies were interested in acquiring Uggla midseason in 2010, but the Marlins slugger is likely to be too expensive for their tastes now.”
I’m afraid as a Rockie fan, we are going to hear that often this winter, wither it’s in the form of a trade or for a free agent player.
Okay so despite all the disagreements about trade proposals, prospects etc
I cant help but wonder about the thinking behind this in the first place.. If the plan is to move Uggla to third, why not just go after Beltre?
Beltre is looking for what a 4-5 years, 60-75 mill.. Uggla just turned down 50 million, plus will cost some pretty decent pieces..
Because you can pursue Uggla as a one year option and either flip him for prospects in July or get 2 top picks in return if he leaves for a price you aren’t comfortable paying. I highly doubt AA is trading for him planning on an extension.
Agreed.
It fits in well with AA’s philosophy of “building” (which I am by now quite convinced *is* distinct from rebuilding and built-for-playoffs). The Jays will have plenty of picks in a deep draft in 2011, so AA can afford to lose a few prospects, especially those he’s not sold on, whilst acquiring assets who can be converted into prospects themselves and provide the possibility of a playoff push.
Committing to Beltre for multiple years seems a “liability” move that AA simply wouldn’t take on.
If it is just to acquire a Type A free agent, I think at that point it makes even less sense then if you wanted to acquire him to be a permanent fixture.I mean you will have to almost certainly give up one of your better prospects, plus 2 more high upside guys, all in an effort to get a Type A, which isn’t always a guarantee of getting a 1st round pick back. Especially Uggla who’s Elias ranking isn’t that high, many other Type A’s would be ranked in front of him, so a team who signed 2 type A’s would end up giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick to the Jays. I agree that Beltre is a liability move, but is a stopgap 3rd basemen really what this team needs right now?
Uggla has a Uggly sub .400 OPS at the RogerCentre… Supported by a Huge Sample Size.
if somehow uggla is on the market for cheap, i make a trade but if the jays are trading something worthwhile for him then i rather trade for figgins.
if this is AA just being smart and trading assets he doesnt like for something to flip later on thats fine but if uggla is the type of player he is targeting then that is going against everything him and farrel have said.
Yeah. Nice job not offering more than Omar Infante & Mike Dunn!
Hahahahaha!
Fred Lewis is not playing LF for the Jays. Especially at the expense of Travis Snider sitting on the bench. Fred Lewis is a terrible defender.
Snider as DH? He is a stellar outfielder.
And no way Lewis is a regular.
Why is Lewis here LOL
This would be the worst Defensive lineup in baseball. Basically you will be asking Escobar to field everything on the ground between the 3rd baseline and 1st baseline. Brutal Defense on this projected setup
Being a Giants fan, I know how hyped Lewis was and he thought he was a lot better than he really was. In an interview before the 2009 season, F.Lew (F-dot-Lew, a self given nickname) said, “When I was young, I wanted to be a legendary ball player. Look at me now!” After he under performed Giants fans gave him the name ‘F. Loser’ He will never be a good option anywhere.
Put Snider in left and go out and grab a DH or 1B. Swap out Lewis’ name with someone like Manny Ramirez or Derrek Lee or Carlos Pena or whatnot. Now that is an impressive lineup.
I see nothing wrong with a 22 year old DHing…
Factually correct. But Fred Lewis stinks.
Agreed. Maybe The Marlins want him, I know I wouldn’t mind if he wasn’t with The Jays on opening day.
nope got stanton in rf and morrison in lf
I know, it was a joke.
It feels great thank you very much!
And stop drinking Haterade
I personally don’t see Zep as a very good starter, thanks.
Is this a sarcasm? Because DHing a 22 year old is never a good idea.
It’s ridiculous especially since Snider’s defense in LF can be and was (this year) very good in LF.
Yes and Hullo explained the reasoning and he is 22 years old.
Pat the Bat couldn’t handle Tampa Bay. I don’t want the Jays anywhere near him.
I know but never know about here some other might start proposing him as a centerpiece
Nice…I go to a ton of Minor League games…I’ve seen many of those players play, and I follow all of minor league Baseball…If what you are saying is right in your opinion, then I could say Jesus Montero is a bad prospect and be right, right?
and also, if thats the case then whats the point of having Baseball America and other prospect rankings? The whole point of Minor League Baseball is to prepare prospects for the big leagues, if you don’t recognize that prospects play a huge role in the game, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I’m talking about Overbay in his prime. Doubles power, good obp and defense. But stick to insults I guess.
You’ll pass on .300/.380 with 20HR 50 doubles?
Alex already did when he traded Brett Wallace.
that was one year.
and realistically from a first baseman you need more power plain and simple.
overbay’s numbers would be good if he was a speedy left fielder.
No idea why you’re hating so much on Rzep.
He had some greatness early when he came up, had a huge ground ball %, and good strikeout numbers. His walks are too high, but those can be improved upon. His mechanics are odd, but they work. No sense on hating on a guy who could be a good late inning reliever, or a solid back of the end rotation starter.
My objection is not to the use of minor leaguers but rather to the fact that you reference guys with one year in rookie ball as top prospects. There is no value to that. Results in upper minors do, however, give strong indication towards major league success, yes.
SPAN – the issue is not about who is the better prospect – the issue is that Rzep is no longer really a prospect – he’s a viable MLB caliber pitcher. The potential upsides of the younger 10 may be much greater than that of Rzep, but they are only prospects and Rzep is now
brap
Oh okay, thanks. So you mean we need 26 like Huff’s, and the 2010 World Series Champs? Or like hmmm, take your pick in Texas, who lost in the World Series?
Don’t be a puppet. If you have five guys that can hit 30+HR, you don’t need a power hitting first baseman.
don’t be a puppet? umm okay, it would be nice if you could defend an argument with out pointless jabs..Jays a) only had 2 players hit 30 HR’s this year, and realistically with how inconsistent and injury prrone wells has been and how much of an outlier bautistas year was, the team could very realistically have no players hit 30 next year, or just one.. Snider. b) We don’t have to compete with the giants, or the rangers to get in to the playoffs. If we were in the NL West then maybe you have a point and you can get away with an inferior offensive lineup, but a 1B hitting 26 HR’s isn’t going to help the Jays get in to the playoffs. Jays are in the AL east, so when your biggest opponents 1B are Texiera and Youk and you have lyle overbay at 1b how do you expect to compete?
People think they can just build a team to win the world series.. you need to build a team that can win the AL east first.
“I’m sorry to me that a potential workhorse mid rotation starter, drafted in last years first round by the current GM in place is worth more then a converted reliever coming off a great year” Morrow??? yea chad jenkins is better than morrow
lol what? what are you talking about. Who the heck was talking about Morrow?
Morrow was a top 5 pick and handle brutally by the mariners? There are ZERO similarities, just STOP talking please.
So you’re saying because most teams have power on the corners, the Jays need power on the corners, even though by far they had the most HRs in the league. Does that really make sense?
Sure Wells and Bautista may not hit 30, but if we’re going to play that game, Hill could hit 30, Lind could hit 30. And if Wells, Bautista, and our 3B and 1B hit 20HR, I think we’ll be okay…
Im talking about the negative qualities you stated for stewart… converted reliever coming off one good year… is the same as morrow so does he have no value either? And I will stop talking after this post because I can tell they are hard for you to understand…
Regardless, 1B is and will always be a power position, its the least challenging position defensively, if you’re not getting offense what are you getting exactly?
.300/.380 20HR 50 doubles is not offense?
of course it is.. but it has to happen consistently.
Morrow was drafted as a starter, nice try on the reach though.
Manny Ramirez, I summon thee!
The whole point of this was that he’d only be Overbay in his prime, and hullo would pass on that.
prime means more then one good year.