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Jays The Favorite For Uggla, Rox Priced Out?

By Steve Adams | November 14, 2010 at 3:05pm CDT

After having their four-year, $48MM extension offer to Dan Uggla rejected, the Marlins seem intent on trading their second baseman. Uggla has his faults; he's not a gifted defender, strikes out in more than one of every four plate appearances for his career, and he's due a nice raise on his $7.8MM salary for 2010. What Uggla does best is hit the ball far, and hit the ball hard. He's never hit fewer than 27 home runs, and has topped 31 long balls in each of the past four seasons.

ESPN's Buster Olney tweets that two rival executives have told him Toronto would be the favorite to acquire Uggla in a trade, should the Marlins indeed follow through on their trade intentions.

The Blue Jays may not seem the most apparent fit at first, given Aaron Hill's presence, however they could intend on moving Uggla to third base. And Uggla certainly fits in with the Blue Jays' mold from 2010. Toronto led the Majors with 257 home runs, and the club parted ways with third baseman Edwin Encarnacion earlier in the week.

Toronto also has a depth of pitching talent available, something that other teams no doubt covet. While the Marlins have acquired three young relievers in the past week (Ryan Webb, Edward Mujica, and Dustin Richardson), they'll no doubt still be on the lookout for young, controllable talent in any return for Uggla.

In a second tweet, Olney also notes that the Rockies were interested in acquiring Uggla midseason in 2010, but the Marlins slugger is likely to be too expensive for their tastes now.

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286 Comments

  1. xfipMachine

    15 years ago

    Rzepczynski, plus?

    Reply
    • Dave_Gershman

      15 years ago

      He doesn’t have much value…Here are the two ideas I came up with…

      Carlos Perez, Danny Farquahar, and Brad Emaus

      Jake Marisnick, Michael McDade, Trystan Magnuson, and Matt Daly.

      Reply
      • Joshua

        15 years ago

        That first package seems a little heavy and the 2nd one a little light. Though I suppose I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see Arencibia or D’Arnaud + one of the arms.

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          I could actually see Arencibia and Farquahar going to Florida

          Reply
          • BlueJays45

            15 years ago

            Arencibia is worth much more than Uggla. Lets remember…he’d only be here for a year. Florida got barely anything for Maybin who I personally feel is a more valuable asset looking ahead then Uggla, not to mention I believe Maybin’s locked up for 3 years or so.

            Reply
            • buckeye3232

              15 years ago

              How does Arencibia have more value then Uggla? Arencibia is not a proven pro.. Uggla is

              Reply
              • JKGocha

                15 years ago

                Arencibia has more potential, his age, his contract value etc
                plus hes a catcher.. how many catchers u think can hit over 30 hr or could possible hit 30 hr. Arencibia can!

                Reply
                • BlueJays45

                  15 years ago

                  Exactly my point, Arencibia has proven his worth, I believe it was ESPN saying his first career start was the best they’ve ever seen? You really would give up 4 plus years with an offensively gifted catcher for one year with a guy that strikes out every 3 at bats? Some people don’t understand the value of prospects.

                  Reply
    • BlueJays45

      15 years ago

      I’d say Rzep plus Emaus, but since the Marlins seem to want bullpen help Trystan Magnuson maybe an attractive prospect.

      Reply
  2. Infield Fly

    15 years ago

    Wow…if this is true it could really be a sweet bat for the Jays — although with his level of defense it couldn’t hurt to have him DH sometimes.

    Reply
    • samrob08

      15 years ago

      He’s not amazing, but i’ve seen worst as far as defence is concerned.
      With Adam Lind playing first base, Uggla and Macdonald could alternate at 3B.
      (I really liked Macdonald at the end of the year) Of course Uggla would get most of the job. Hill was also fine being moved to third base if my memory is right?

      Reply
      • renegade

        15 years ago

        John McDonald playing routinely for you is not a recipe for success in the AL East. Sorry. And I’m as big a Johnny Mac fan as you will find.

        Reply
      • Encarnacion's Parrot

        15 years ago

        His defense couldn’t be any worse than E5’s.

        Reply
  3. renegade

    15 years ago

    JP Arencibia and Mark Rzep? Zach Stewart and Eric Thames?Henderson Alvarez, Jeremy Accardo and Darin Mastroianni?Just spitballing here…

    Reply
    • SP

      15 years ago

      Those are fair combos, I think. I wouldn’t go anywhere near Marcum, Romero, Cecil.

      Reply
      • JKGocha

        15 years ago

        we are talking about Uggla…..
        i hope you see wat ATL gave up to get him…
        which is pretty much nothing!

        Reply
    • Dave_Gershman

      15 years ago

      Mastroianni’s numbers are a little bit decieving…He’s almost 26 and his SB’s are really the best aspect of his game. I’m not sure the Marlins want anything to do with Accardo and Alvarez isn’t really the top prospect he was…Thames plays the position horrible and Zep doesn’t have much value…

      Carlos Perez, Danny Farquahar, and Brad Emaus

      Jake Marisnick, Michael McDade, Trystan Magnuson, and Matt Daly.

      Those were the two I thought of I posted them up top.

      Reply
      • Encarnacion's Parrot

        15 years ago

        Mastroianni should have been in atleast AAA this year – he probably only stuck in AA due to the playoff run.

        He’s also 26 next August, so not quite almost.

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          My bad, not “almost”, but 25 isn’t exactly prospect status. And he had a great season, I saw him play a lot, but he isn’t as good as his stats suggest…I wouldn’t want him as the centerpiece if I’m the Marlins.

          Reply
          • Encarnacion's Parrot

            15 years ago

            I wouldn’t want him as a centerpiece either, but he’s a nice part in a trade. He also seems to get on base very well, prototypical of a lead-off guy. He is a little old for a prospect, but so is Eric Thames and most Jays fans, including me, are high on him.

            Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          his grandma is also really nice to me!

          Reply
          • Encarnacion's Parrot

            15 years ago

            Does she bake awesome cookies?

            Reply
            • Dave_Gershman

              15 years ago

              Not sure, but I’ll make sure to ask next time the Fisher Cats are playing in Trenton.

              Reply
  4. bonestock94

    15 years ago

    Uggla seems like a perfect blue jay. A lot of power and homers, (usually) low BA and OBP.

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      His OBP over last 3 seasons is .360. Sad as it is, that’s actually pretty high for a Blue Jay.

      Reply
      • Dave_Gershman

        15 years ago

        Explain to me how a .360 OBP is “sad”?

        I think he would be a perfect Blue Jay.

        Reply
        • Jon Stark

          15 years ago

          The sad part was that it qualifies as high for the BJs.

          Reply
      • Pike Parker

        15 years ago

        .360 is actually pretty high for any team, given the league average is in the .330’s.

        The article mentions that Uggla could be moved to third, but I think Aaron Hill at 3rd might be a better choice given his above-average arm but declining range.

        Reply
    • Blue Jay Bat Boy

      15 years ago

      80-90 walks and .360 OBP is low? Plus the power?

      Reply
      • bonestock94

        15 years ago

        Take out his high BABIP ’10 season and his career average OBP is pretty meh. I’m not saying he’s bad, just that his repertoire reminds me of of the 2010 Jays.

        Reply
        • Ryan T Cain

          15 years ago

          huh?

          last three years has been .360, .354, and .369.

          very decent for a 2b or 3b.

          Reply
          • Slopeboy

            15 years ago

            Not much different than his Fielding Percentage.

            (Forgive me, I just couldn’t resist)

            Reply
  5. Jeffery

    15 years ago

    he is a type A FA he will get a good return of at least a top ready spec/young arm as he will be worth 2 1st rounders not to mention he is open to an extension.

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Correction: He is open to an extension on mostly his terms. (He wants 5 years)

      Reply
      • Jeffery

        15 years ago

        For a team that can in the future if need stick him at DH that would be fine. After all he is good for a 340s OBP, 30HR and about 80-100 RBI’s. I think in the parks of the AL East He would be even better.

        Either way the fish will get some good value for him most likely they will want to look for a CF or a good young mlb ready arm

        Reply
  6. RAWagman

    15 years ago

    Rzepczynski would be a good bet as the centrepiece. I would think the Marlins would love to get a good prospect at an up-the-middle position. Maybe Justin Jackson? Brad Emaus? Kenny Wilson? Antonio Jimenez?

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Justin Jackson is not a good prospect.

      Reply
      • deere5800

        15 years ago

        Unless you’re asking Richard Griffin…the guy loved Jackson

        Reply
      • RAWagman

        15 years ago

        Not good, but the right kind of fielder – he has a better chance at progressing in another organization anyway

        Reply
      • Dave_Gershman

        15 years ago

        I agree, he is too overvalued and really only thrived in the GCL.

        Reply
  7. Zuidvogels

    15 years ago

    What about one of Toronto’s young abundant SP for Uggla?

    Reply
    • marlinsfanatic

      15 years ago

      Drabek

      Reply
      • eviola1

        15 years ago

        Don’t bring his name in the conversation, especially if it is only for 1-yr of Uggla.

        Reply
      • Henry Castellanos

        15 years ago

        HAHA you wish….. you’d be better off taking Aarencibia and D’Arnaud

        Reply
  8. Brandon G

    15 years ago

    An infield with Hill, Escobar, and Uggla would be pretty impressive for the Jays. Also, Adeiny Hechavarria is waiting in the wings. Kind of off topic, but is David Cooper a serious prospect? I have heard some pretty good things about him… But he isn’t really mentioned as a top prospect, although in 2009 he was a top 10 prospect ( in the Jays system, not all of baseball) according to baseball america.

    Reply
    • Pike Parker

      15 years ago

      Cooper was only ever considered a good prospect by BA because they take draft position into account whether or not the player deserved to be drafted when he was. Cooper’s a bum; his best-case projection is Lyle Overbay with less walks and below-average defence at 1st base. I’ll be amazed if he ever becomes a major league regular.

      Reply
    • Joshua

      15 years ago

      He had a horrible 2009 and then didn’t play all that well in 2010. He did start to hit better towards the back half of the season, but he really needs to have a good 2011 in order to not completely fall off the map.

      Reply
  9. mozelpuffski

    15 years ago

    rzep and maybe austin (correction – was stoned: justin) jackson as a throw in? mills or cooper?

    Reply
    • HerbertAnchovy

      15 years ago

      I think you’re mistaken; Austin Jackson is with The Tigers. Justin Jackson perhaps?

      Reply
      • Joshua

        15 years ago

        Heh. I assume he meant Justin, but he has no real value at this point.

        Reply
    • moonraker45

      15 years ago

      jays should just call austin jackson up, he’s the speedy lead off outfielder we need!

      Reply
  10. mozelpuffski

    15 years ago

    rzep doesnt have much value??? he is a young controllable arm with mid rotation potential. probably best starter outside of our projected 5 next year: marcum, morrow, romero, cecil, drabek.

    Reply
    • Jeffery

      15 years ago

      not enough to get a 30 hr hitting 2nd baseman as a centerpiece. More then likely it would be one of the projected 5 for next year that the fish would want honestly.

      Reply
      • Joshua

        15 years ago

        For one year of Uggla at $10M+? If that’s the type of return they’re looking for, I imagine they’d have a hard time trading him. Scrabble put up a 9.5 K/9 in the minors and in 25 games (23 starts) in the AL East as a 23 and 24 year old, he had an 8.4 K/9 and a 4.32 ERA. He needs to cut down on the walks a bit, but he DEFINITELY has trade value (especially to an NL club)

        Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      I’d much rather have Zach Stewart than Rzep.

      Reply
    • Dave_Gershman

      15 years ago

      I could name 10 starting pitchers in the Jays organization who I would rather have than Zep not named Drabek, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow.

      Drew Hutchinson
      Joel Carreno
      Zach Stewart
      Asher Wojciechowski
      Aaron Sanchez
      Henderson Alvarez
      Deck McGuire
      Griffin Murphy
      Noah Syndergaard
      Adonis Cardona.

      Reply
      • renegade

        15 years ago

        I agree with you on about half. Some of those guys are too far off / unknown at this point. I think Rzep at the minimum would be a #5 in the NL.

        Reply
        • Jeffery

          15 years ago

          I dont see him beating out west for the number 5 spot for us. He would not be an upgrade and enough to trade off a year of an all star 2nd baseman and 2 1st round picks

          Reply
      • Sniderlover

        15 years ago

        I fail to see how Hutch, Carreno, or even Cardona have more value than Zep? He’s shown he can pitch in the big leagues. Was solid in 09 and was solid towards the end of ’10. He is still inconsistent but he has strikeout stuff while those guys are perhaps average prospects. Heck, has Cardona even pitched in A ball yet?

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          I think delivery problems will prevent him from being a Major League Starter and I don’t like his stuff or command despite dominating the Yankees in his last start.

          Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          Never said they had more value. Just said they would be more wanted in trades.

          Reply
          • ju1ced

            15 years ago

            Well sorry, you’re wrong.

            Reply
      • moonraker45

        15 years ago

        half of those guys cant be traded at this point because they were just drafted/signed

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          Yes, but I wasn’t talking about trades. Just pitchers who are better and who I’d rather have in my organization.

          Reply
          • Jon Stark

            15 years ago

            better? based on what?

            Reply
      • Jon Stark

        15 years ago

        Ya, but you have made it readily clear a number of times that you are not high on Zep.

        Reply
        • Dave_Gershman

          15 years ago

          I’m not

          Reply
          • mozelpuffski

            15 years ago

            you should be – only person on your list that is anywhere near where he is today is Zach Stewart and he is not ready to pitch a full mlb season. and if that is who the fish want for uggla; AA would say good day and good luck. He will be in the mix for either Rasmus or Grienke.

            Reply
            • Dave_Gershman

              15 years ago

              Not at all. He is extremely overrated and wouldn’t fetch Greinke or Rasmus at all in my opinion.

              Reply
  11. EL CABALLO 626

    15 years ago

    Where would they put Uggla???

    Reply
    • Encarnacion's Parrot

      15 years ago

      Pitcher. They could never have enough.

      Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Oh I don’t know, Third base?

      Reply
      • EL CABALLO 626

        15 years ago

        Yeah and while your at it sign Matsui and put him in CF, If he’s bad on 2nd he’s going to be worse on 3rd

        Reply
        • Pike Parker

          15 years ago

          You’ve got the defensive spectrum backwards, pal.

          Reply
  12. Sniderlover

    15 years ago

    I’d be fine with getting him unless we’re giving up a whole lot.

    But I still don’t understand how it makes sense to acquire him unless the Jays are going to go out and sign Crawford and other FA to make a push for the playoffs.

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      A) Crawford isn’t coming to the Jays (AA won’t match Angels’ highest bid, Carl doesn’t like turf.
      B) Who says this is AA’s only move?
      C) Jays may very well compete with Uggla at 3B. Or even offer him an extension.
      D) If they tank at beginning of year, AA can trade Uggla at deadline.
      E) Or hang onto him and get picks at end of year.

      I can go on…. I’m so tired of hearing Jays fans go “we’ll compete in 2 years”. Every year I hear this, enough already.

      Reply
      • Dave_Gershman

        15 years ago

        Actually, I’m starting to think that the only reason why they want to get Uggla is to get picks at the end of next year.

        Reply
        • Twitchy

          15 years ago

          Which isn’t as good an idea as it sounds, depending on what they give up. If the prospects they give up have a similar ceiling to what they’ll get in an A pick (I assume Uggla will be an A type when he’s a FA), than they lost out. It’s better to have the more developed prospect.The picks are nice to fall back on, but I agree that the only reason to trade for Uggla is if you think you can compete.

          Reply
          • Matt

            15 years ago

            We can compete. All of our top four starters showed flashes of extreme brilliance last year, and they’re all young. Marcum is the oldest, and he’s not even that old at all. Drabek is young and untested, but has a high ceiling with his stuff. Offensively, we have nothing to worry about, especially if the Jays get Uggla. Our only problem is the bullpen. And that’s a serious problem.

            If Pettitte retires/ the Yankees don’t sign Cliff, they’re going to struggle.

            The Rays are losing Crawford and Pena, both excellent defenders, and Crawford an offensive beast. Again a loss.

            Red Sox will improve next season, a lot.

            Orioles need not be mentioned.

            Reply
    • marlinsfanatic

      15 years ago

      “unless we’re giving up a lot”

      Are you kidding? Dan Uggla is one of the best offensive 2B in baseball and you don’t think they will have to give up a lot. The Marlins don’t even have to trade him they could sign him for one year and then recieve their draft picks. You can bet that the Marlins will be asking for Drabek. If they don’t get him I think the Marlins interest for trading with the Jays will disappear. The Marlins already stated that they are asking for a big time player in a deal.

      Reply
      • renegade

        15 years ago

        “You can bet that the Marlins will be asking for Drabek”And then you can bet that the Jays GM will hang up the phone after. Then again, you were the guy that said that the Marlins should trade Dan Uggla for Colby Rasmus.

        Reply
      • rzepczynski

        15 years ago

        your out of your mind if you think they will give up drabek…. dan ugla for 10plus for one year…. and best offensive secxond basemen? he would be the worst second basemen in the AL east… maybe tied for last as roberts, cano, and pedroa are all better, and marlins are cheap they wont want to spend 10 mill on him this year

        Reply
        • marlinsfanatic

          15 years ago

          They offered him 12 mil a year and he said no. Nice try trying to call the Marlins cheap there.

          Reply
          • Matt

            15 years ago

            I’m enjoying your passion for the Marlins. However, there is no way Drabek gets traded to the Marlins. Book it. Drabek projects as a top of the rotation starter. Uggla has one year left on his contract and a high salary.

            Reply
      • deere5800

        15 years ago

        If it’s Drabek or nothing than the fish are being narrow minded…there are plenty of interesting prospects and possible trade combinations with the Jays

        Reply
        • ice_hawk1002

          15 years ago

          i agree, very unlikely to trade a single bluechip prospect for an established major leaguer. more likely to be some kind of convoluted multiplayer, perhaps even multiteam, deal. AA is crafty, so it will probably be something unexpected

          uggla has great numbers, as close as you can get to a shoe-in 30HR 90RBI guy. yet he has had a couple nasty years with the BA, and i wonder how his numbers translate in the AL east. he seems to be an aaron hill doppleganger (assuming aaron’s BA returns to respectability next year), but with worse D.

          Reply
      • eviola1

        15 years ago

        lol nooooo

        Reply
        • marlinsfanatic

          15 years ago

          You guy don’t have a clue haha.

          Reply
          • Sniderlover

            15 years ago

            No that would be you.

            Why would Jays trade Drabek for Uggla at all? They barely got him for Halladay with extension and Uggla meanwhile is a rental and pretty crappy defensively at 2nd base.

            Wishful thinking.

            Reply
            • marlinsfanatic

              15 years ago

              I’m not saying they would I said that the Marlins would ASK for that.

              Reply
              • Sniderlover

                15 years ago

                And they would get REJECTED.

                Reply
            • Henry Castellanos

              15 years ago

              “Barely”? I think it should have been Dom Brown plus Drabek for Halladay

              Reply
              • Sniderlover

                15 years ago

                Should have been… but did we get it? We asked for it but we were rejected.

                Reply
        • elscorcho the marlin

          15 years ago

          lol nothing. uggla is a hell of a player, and worth it.

          Reply
          • Henry Castellanos

            15 years ago

            His defense isn’t worth anything

            Reply
          • Matt

            15 years ago

            I think it would be totally fair to judge Uggla based on his play in the all-star game two years ago.

            That being said, the fabled power of Mike Jacos will do for Uggla, straight up.

            Reply
      • bonestock94

        15 years ago

        loooooooooooooooooool

        Reply
    • ice_hawk1002

      15 years ago

      an uggla-nunez package would be nice seeing as the jays are also in the market for a closer, tho the pricetag increases of course

      Reply
  13. Jays4life

    15 years ago

    i would love Uggla but im not sure he fits the jays mold now unless they can sign him to an extension. He is 30 which is not old but not young either. 1 yr left then is a fa…doesnt hit for a high average or have a ton of speed…another power bat which im not sure we nec need i guess it depends on what we have to give up to get him.

    I would move uggla to 3rd and let hill play 2nd. Hecheverria is gonna be the 2nd baseman of the future so why switch hill and then uggla to 2nd in a year when hech is ready. I think hill will be dealt next year if he rebounds esp if they get uggla.

    Reply
    • EL CABALLO 626

      15 years ago

      Why would they put him on 3rd if he was terrible on 2nd base, thats like putting a Matsui type fielder in CF

      Reply
      • Pike Parker

        15 years ago

        Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn’t make it any less wrong.

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          or funnier

          Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Batting average is useless. He gets on-base more than any Blue Jay other than Jose Bautista (last year). Which is EXACTLY what the Jays need. Also Hecheverria is the SS of the future not 2B.

      Reply
      • Jays4life

        15 years ago

        actually the jays plan on switchin hech to 2nd base next year so to me that means he is the second baseman of the future, plan is to keep escobar and his strong arm at short….either way i would still move uggla to 3rd

        Reply
        • renegade

          15 years ago

          “actually the jays plan on switchin hech to 2nd base next year”

          Post me your source on this.

          Reply
          • Jays4life

            15 years ago

            it was on a prime time sports show with bob mccown talking to a jays front office guy. they asked the possibility on why hill would be moved to third and if esco would move, the jays guy said the future is esco at short and hech at 2nd atm and hech is gonna play there next year…ill try and find the link for that particular show

            Reply
            • HerbertAnchovy

              15 years ago

              You’ve got it backwards. It’s been suggested that if Hechavarria was ready while Escobar was still around Escobar would probably move to 2B.

              Reply
            • Blue Jay Bat Boy

              15 years ago

              Please do not take McCown’s word as a serious baseball source. Thank you. Escobar will probably be on his way out when Hech is ready full time.

              Reply
              • HerbertAnchovy

                15 years ago

                Agreed. I think McCown likes the sound of his own voice!

                Reply
              • renegade

                15 years ago

                Remember when McCown said than Kyle Drabek sucks compared to Mark Rzep? Ugh.

                Reply
                • Jays4life

                  15 years ago

                  that is true. I see the potential drabek has i for one am not completely sold he is ace material though. I guessi havent watched too much of him so that could be why but going strickly by the numbers, Zack Stewart outpiched Drabek in double a this year but yet Drabek is considered alot higher then stewart. I have heard alot about both pitchers and would consider both elite prospect for the jays pitching arms.

                  Am i wrong in this assumtion??

                  Reply
                • mozelpuffski

                  15 years ago

                  you need to learn about sarcasm.

                  Reply
        • Blue Jay Bat Boy

          15 years ago

          The Jays are switching Hech to second? Who told you that bullocks?

          Reply
          • mozelpuffski

            15 years ago

            DJF kindof says the same thing. surprised me too. i thought hech was SS of future and that is how we signed him over the yanks (he did not want to be behind jeter) mind you yanks also indicated they want to convert him to o/f not 2nd so that could have been the deal breaker not moving from ss to 2b.

            Reply
  14. Meatball1

    15 years ago

    I don’t know… Uggla’s career numbers are very unattractive at the Rogers Centre…

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      And exactly how many games has he played there? 6? Ever heard of sample sizes dude?

      Reply
      • Meatball1

        15 years ago

        the answer is three. you take everything on here a little too serious bud. obviously it was joke.

        Reply
        • renegade

          15 years ago

          It’s sometimes hard to tell the serious posts from the joke ones… Sorry!

          Reply
          • Meatball1

            15 years ago

            Now here’s a career line I like – .310/.414./.776 at AT&T Park

            Reply
            • blackandorangepride

              15 years ago

              now that is awesome my friend don’t forget to include 8 homeruns

              Reply
  15. rzepczynski

    15 years ago

    sounds like AA grabbing a player who the marlins cannot afford worst case scenario he walks and Jays get compensation pics, hecouldget shipped at the deadline after he joins right handed home run hitting pradise AKA Rogers centre, or get resigned…. no way he nets any of the starting 5 including drabek… Rzep, Alvarez, thames/emaus…. get it done

    Reply
    • marlinsfanatic

      15 years ago

      ? no way he lands one of the starting 5? hahaha

      Reply
      • renegade

        15 years ago

        Is Mike Stanton involved in the trade too?

        Reply
        • marlinsfanatic

          15 years ago

          Have you ever watched one Marlin game Hullo? Uggla is one hell of a player. If you think the Marlins are going to get rzepczynski or some mediocre prspect you have to be CRAZY. Uggla better almost .290 with 30 bombs and 100 RBI. Most of you blue jay fans have no idea how good Uggla is with your trade speculations. Drabek will be what the Marlins are asking for without a doubt.

          Reply
          • renegade

            15 years ago

            Oh I understand quite well how good Uggla is. But the fact remains that it is one year at 10$ million for Dan Uggla. That doesn’t take a blue-chip prospect; a top 50 prospect yes. (D’Arnaud, Stewart, etc). The Marlins can ask for Kyle Drabek, but AA won’t trade him for Dan Uggla.

            Reply
            • marlinsfanatic

              15 years ago

              Uggla will not be a Blue Jay then. Plain and simple.

              Reply
              • Andy Mc

                15 years ago

                Can I rent your crystal ball, sir? The jays have a bunch of very good SP prospects and MLB ready (controllable) arms. You wouldn’t want guys like Henderson Alvarez, Zach Stewart or Marc Rzepczynski? You, my friend, are being ridiculous.

                Reply
              • Sniderlover

                15 years ago

                Lol okay… I’m sure the Jays will live.

                You can ASK for it but it certainly doesn’t mean you will get it from the Jays or any team. No team is going to give up a top 25 prospect for a rental who is all offense.

                Reply
            • illnath

              15 years ago

              I can’t wait to see you after Marlins get mediocre prospects in return for Uggla

              Reply
            • illnath

              15 years ago

              I can’t wait to see marlinsfanatic after Marlins get mediocre prospects in return for Uggla

              Reply
          • EL CABALLO 626

            15 years ago

            Yeah but Uggla is midiocre defender at best, his numbers will most likely go down from last season, especially since not only will he be in the AL, but he’ll be in the AL East and would have to see pitchers like CC, Lester, Price, and MAYBE Pettitte, Cliff Lee, a Beckett that won’t be as bad as last years, Garza, Matusz and much more so you have to put that into consideration

            Reply
            • Jeffery

              15 years ago

              totally harder then halladay, santana, hamels, etc etc in the nl east and hitting in a pitchers park. To be fair he would most likely hit more homeruns there in toronto also his numbers for walks have been increasing on the trend.

              I am not saying he will be a top 5 player but he will be a very good player for the jays.

              Reply
              • Lincecum_Says_GSP

                15 years ago

                I love how people believe that the teams outside the AL East have inferior pitching… come to the NL West or NL East and see how deep the pitching goes. Plugging Uggla in that Jays lineup would be a huge boost for them and would make them a legit threat to win the East. No he’s not worth a Drabek but the Marlins should get a nice package of players from which ever team he goes to.

                I just wish the Giants could figure out a way to make Uggla work with the guys they already have locked up because they could put together a nice package around some of the relievers (Romo, Runzler) plus a prospect.

                Reply
          • Pike Parker

            15 years ago

            The simple fact that you’re only one-for-three on quoting actual useful baseball statistics here precludes any chance at credibility you might have had. No modern baseball braintrust cares about batting average or RBI’s when they can look at OBP or OPS+.

            Reply
            • Jeffery

              15 years ago

              Look over his OPS+ and OPS over the past 3-4 years, they are perfectly fine. I never understood why fans of teams seem to downgrade players when they want to trade for him as if the GM’s are reading the board waiting for us to propose the best deals (not directed at you in particular pike).

              I can only go off of hat I have seen of the players on both teams from watching the fish down here in florida and watching the yanks play the jays when I can.

              All of that said the fish will be searching for pitching as a centerpiece most likely as they always seem to. I disagree with fanatic as I do not see drabek going anywhere at all.

              Reply
              • Pike Parker

                15 years ago

                Oh no, I wasn’t saying Uggla wasn’t a great hitter (especially for a middle infielder.) I was just objecting to the valuation of a player based on his batting average and RBI’s. You’re absolutely right that Uggla puts up outstanding numbers in both OBP and OPS+, and I think he’d be a great pickup for the Jays if he doesn’t cost Drabek. I really don’t want to see them move Marisnick or McDade in an Uggla trade either, but obviously you have to give to get. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

                Reply
          • Jon Stark

            15 years ago

            Just think about it. AA does not see the Jays as a contender right now. Presumably adding Uggla does not put you over the top. So why would he mortgage the future by trading away one of their top 5 pitching arms, all of which are well under team control? It wouldn’t make any sense, particularly because Uggla only has one year left.

            Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Nooo don’t trade yourself!

      Reply
    • Jeffery

      15 years ago

      dont think money is the issue if the fish just offered him 4 years 48 million. Again the fish have a need for a starter, a CF, and some extra arms for the bp (really handled already with the 3 already picked up).

      They will ask for along for him as worst case they keep him and trade him midseason for a good amount or lose him after the season for 2 1st rounders. The fish are not trading from weakness.

      Do I expect a ransom? Nope, but they should get a good amount from the trade.

      Reply
  16. nelson_c

    15 years ago

    I think it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that Lind or Hill could be going the other way. Both are signed to fairly inexpensive contracts. The fish still are trying to compete, as evident in the Maybin trade and offering Uggla 4/$12MM.

    Reply
    • Joshua

      15 years ago

      Why would Toronto give up on Lind at his absolute lowest value for a pending FA who wants a monster contract and is 30 years old?

      Reply
    • moonraker45

      15 years ago

      Just because they offered uggla that contract doesn’t mean they are in the market to spend 50 million on a contract..

      It makes much more sense to get back cheap controllable players whenever possible, being the marlins it just makes that much more sense..

      and not to mention lind isn’t field tested so i doubt marlins ask for him not knowing if he could stick at 1st or lf for a full season.

      Reply
  17. baseballdude

    15 years ago

    that sux

    Reply
  18. EL CABALLO 626

    15 years ago

    Whoever thinks Uggla is going to play 3rd base must be smoking something, Uggla won’t play 3rd because if he does he probably will break the record for most errors in MLB history

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Jays fans have had to watch Edwin Encarnacion for the past year and a half. At this point, ANYONE is an upgrade.

      Reply
      • iains

        15 years ago

        A fence post with a glove hung on it is a defensive upgrade over E5

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          whats the fence posts obp?

          Reply
          • iains

            15 years ago

            counting hit by pitch, walks and bunts? About the same as E5. Mind you it’s also followed by a a guy with a big hammer.

            Reply
    • HerbertAnchovy

      15 years ago

      I think you’re smoking something if you think Uggla is better suited to 2B than 3B. Hill, while not stellar, has more range and is better defensively than Uggla at 2B.

      Reply
    • illnath

      15 years ago

      his defense stinks, that’s why he’s moving to 3rd, which is a relatively easier position. Man, so many retards here.

      Reply
      • coachofall

        15 years ago

        His arm ranks in the bottom 3rd amongst ML 2B and now we assume he can handle 3rd? I understand he will hit 30 HR’s but I don’t see him being what the Jays need. They would be wise to let their young talent develop and set up for a run in 2012…this isnt the time to trade a Young catcher (Which is what FLA is going to want) or any other young assets for a one year 10 Mil dollar type of player

        Reply
  19. TheodoreRoosevelt

    15 years ago

    Going out on a limb here, but I wonder whether the Jays’ interest in Uggla is linked to the rumours linking Manny with the Jays.

    In other words, two low-risk guys who could strengthen the lineup for an outside playoff push. Manny would be a one year deal, with Uggla deadline trade bait/possible extension/extra draft picks.

    Escobar (SS)
    Snider (LF)
    Bautista (RF)
    Ramirez (DH)
    Wells (CF)
    Uggla (3B)
    Lind (1B)
    Hill (2B)
    Arencibia (C)

    Heh, that’d be a scary hitting lineup.

    Reply
    • Andy Mc

      15 years ago

      haha. do you follow me on twitter? 🙂

      Reply
      • TheodoreRoosevelt

        15 years ago

        I don’t do The Twitter, but I’ll assume great minds think alike 😉

        Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      My only problem with this is Adam Lind playing 1B. That could be a disaster.

      Reply
      • TheodoreRoosevelt

        15 years ago

        Agree. But then…it isn’t a “big push” lineup. Uggla and Ramirez would be flexible options, and AA would be continuing to stock the farm with next year’s deep draft. There’s very little to lose, so it could be a good year to find out if Lind’s got what it takes.

        Reply
        • renegade

          15 years ago

          That should have been last year…. I’m so glad Cito gave us a good look at Lind at 1B. At least Overbay will get that big contract now right Clarence? Right?!

          Reply
          • TheodoreRoosevelt

            15 years ago

            There were more important things to consider, like that kid Tallet getting in his clutch innings.

            Reply
            • moonraker45

              15 years ago

              Well cito said tallet needed 20 HR’s for his next contract so he kept running him out there until he hit the milestone.

              Reply
              • Encarnacion's Parrot

                15 years ago

                And Buck needed to pitch in 9th inning situations. Cito can’t hear us because he has 2 WS rings in his ears.

                Reply
                • moonraker45

                  15 years ago

                  i love cito, his contributions to the city are undeniable.. but unfortunately, the game evolved far beyond him.

                  Reply
                  • Encarnacion's Parrot

                    15 years ago

                    Agreed, he was walking class and gained the respect of the country, peers and players but the old school mythology just didn’t work the second time ’round. Can’t wait to see what Farrell can do.

                    Reply
      • moonraker45

        15 years ago

        we survived with Delgago.. Lind played 1B in college he’s not that bad

        and realistically overbay last year slipped defensively a lot,

        either way we’ll survive, i think its really important to get lind out dh spot to free up options.

        Reply
  20. YanksFanSince78

    15 years ago

    I’m unclear as to why the Jays are so hot for Uggla.

    a) Do they really need another power but that ko’s over 150 x a year? They already led baseball in HRS and KOs last year and you would think they would rather acquire a solid contact hitter w/ some pop instead. He adds nothing defensively so why make this deal?

    b) He’s a FA in 2012. Either they need to extend him starting in his early 30’s – mid 30’s years or he walks and in exchange they get 2 1st rnd picks in place of the bundle of “vetted” prospect they would give up. Being that they aren’t considered an “elite” team yet does this deal make sense for them either in the short-term or long term aspect?

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      A) Contact hitters are meaningless. Joe Inglett batted .300 for them, why’d they let him go? Dan Uggla would instantly become top 3 Jay in OBP. Which is what matters.
      B) AA trades prospects he doesn’t want for Uggla. He either trades Uggla at deadline for prospects he wants or waits and gets the 2 draft picks which he chooses. What’s not to get?

      I am so tired of hearing from Yankee and Red Sox fans about how Toronto, Baltimore, etc should only be going after prospects and not established players since they are so far off.

      Reply
      • renegade

        15 years ago

        Oh and before you respond to “trades prospects he doesn’t want”. I am not saying that the prospects are trash. Just that they are prospects (JP Arencibia for example?) that AA might not be as fond of as other organizations are.

        Reply
        • YanksFanSince78

          15 years ago

          In response to both your posts.

          -Contact hitters are meaningless? Ok, how well did those all or nothing hitters work for you last year? 1st in hrs but among the worst in the AL in OBP, Bat Avg and Hits. You were also middle of the pack in RUNS despite leading in HRS. Now maybe I should’ve explained that by “contact hitter” I meant someone who puts the bat on the ball more, draws walks and doesn’t KO 150 x a year like Uggla does.

          -AA trades prospects he doesn’t want? Well it’s not going to be a one sided trade. Marlins are going to want a package of high upside mlb ready prospects. They are not going to accept a deal centered around mlb mid rotation starters already on the arbitration clock. Expect them to ask for some combo of prospects along the line of a Drabek, D’Arnaud, McGuire, Arencibia, Gose and Hechavarria. I can’t imagine a deal happening w/o some of those guys being involved to trust me, AA will have to trade players that he wants.

          -And as for their future competitiveness, you haven’t heard me say anything negative about the Jays. They have one of the best young rotations in all of baseball and did a great job of beating the Yanks this year. However, what they lack, and what they need aren’t more HRS and more KOs. They led the league in HRS by a wide margin and history shows that it’s darn near impossible to simply bludgeon every team out there. Using valuable prospects to simply pad HR totals isn’t going to do it and it doesn’t address any of the teams needs like OBP (Bautista was the only guy w/ an OBP over .340), SB (last in the AL w/ 58), Bat Avg (.248 team bat avg) and weakens the team defense by either supplanting a superior defensive 2B like Hill or moving Uggla to 3B, a position he hasn’t played more than 10 games in AA back in 2005.

          To me, it’s not unreasonable for the Jays to pass the Rays and become a legit competitor for the AL East w/ one or two of the right pickups. IF they were concerned with obtaining a player with eyes on competing and/or possibly flipping a player at the deadline then I would suggest Agonz over Uggla because at least with Agonz you satisfy more of your needs. You improve the defense overall and at 1B. You add OBP (avg .400 OBP last 2 years), patience and contact ability as well as getting the same amount of power that Uggla brings.

          For the most part, the Marlins have done a decent job of getting good returns on trades (Cabrera being the exception in retrospect) and I think what it would take to get Uggla would be better used to acquire other mlb players. Jays can afford to spend money as well so if they want a 3B why not just sign Beltre?

          Reply
          • moonraker45

            15 years ago

            everything you said is correct,

            what you’re missing is the context of the situation… While it would be better to get a more obp, speedy type of player. They either a) aren’t available or b) dont plug a hole

            the other point missing from your point is the fact that, as we’ve seen already a few times, AA likes to buy low on players (esco, morrow, buck, gonzalez) now while uggla’s value isn’t low, AA may be able to get a decent deal for him.

            Its like if you have a lot of sweaters, but a really nice sweater goes on sale, even though you should be spending your money on pants, because you need pants, you end up buying the sweater.. because its on sale.

            agonz will cost better prospects, beltre will get a contract that far exceeds his worth.

            Reply
            • YanksFanSince78

              15 years ago

              Would Uggla really play a role when you have Hill @ 2B? True he has a horrible year aside from his 26 hrs but he’s still a better defensive 2B. If you move Uggla to 3B you’re going to thet the HRS but who knows what you’ll get defensively.

              Any trade should be measure by what you got vs what you gave up but it’s completely absurd to think that Uggla won’t command a great package. Ppl are calling him an “elite” 2b in one comment and then expecting him to be acquired simply by what AA “doesn’t want”. No reason to expect him to be had for less than 1 top 5 prospect and at least 1 or 2 additional in the top 10. And to compare Uggla to a “sweater on sale” doesn’t quite do it for me. He’s the only 2B w/ at least 30 hrs in each of the last 4 years and it would be absurd to think the Marlin’s won’t get fair market value for him.

              Reply
              • moonraker45

                15 years ago

                I called him a very nice sweater, it fit the analogy.

                I didn’t say you’re going to land him for a package full of fluff, but the jays have surplus arms and catching, to say that arencibia, rzep, stewart, anyone else mentioned isn’t good just because they would be included is like saying that because montero has been dangled as bait somehow means the yankees “dont want him” and thus depreciates his value..

                Reply
    • dizzle4

      15 years ago

      I would guess that the Jays are looking at it a bit like the Mariners looked at their cliff Lee acquisition last year. Yeah, they’re not the favorites, or anywhere close in the AL East next year, but if the Rays lose their three big FAs and the Red Sox don’t have a big off-season, the Jays do have a chance to make a run if some things turn there way. Not saying it’s a big chance, but it’s a chance. So if they like the price Florida is asking for Uggla, why not make the acquisition? If they’re out of the race by the trade deadline, they should be able to flip him, and might even get back better value than they gave up (like the Mariners did). And maybe they just hang onto him and get the two draft picks in 2012.

      And hey – Anthopoulos is quite the creative guy. For all we know he wants Uggla because he’d be a great piece to flip to another team before April comes around.

      Reply
    • Andy Mc

      15 years ago

      They could also trade him at the deadline. Also, they just opened a spot at 3B by waiving Encarnacion, and unloading his $5MM contract. Upgrade for ~$5MM + trade return for a better 3B option + possible return from trade deadline or Type A compensation.

      If the Jays add another piece, say Dunn or Manny to DH, with Uggla, things may look a little different in the AL East in 2011, no?

      Reply
      • Encarnacion's Parrot

        15 years ago

        If the Jays signed Manny to a 1-year deal and he has a monster 1st half, he too could be trade bait. AA seems to operate in misdirection and it works.

        Reply
    • SneakyLongBalls

      15 years ago

      I agree with you on the ko aspect of his game and the suspect defensive skills. But you can’t deny a career .349 OBP and 4 straight 30+ home run seasons.
      Probably see how things go until the trade deadline comes and if need be could move him then.
      Or, he swings a good stick, Jays are doing pretty good and see what he wants for a contract.

      Reply
  21. Gurvir Nijjar

    15 years ago

    uggla at third would be nice at third but we need to concentrate on getting a first baseman because i don’t think lind will play 1st properly because he hasn’t played enough games at first

    Reply
  22. moonraker45

    15 years ago

    Stewart, Thames, Jenkins for Uggla. thats as much as they can get, thats 2 mlb ready prospects and a future mid to top rotation starter 18 years of service for 1 year of uggla.

    Reply
    • Jon Stark

      15 years ago

      that sounds too expensive, much too expensive.

      Reply
      • moonraker45

        15 years ago

        Well Uggla is a good bat, and I am assuming that the Jays would sign him to an extension.Realistically Stewart is a 24 year old converter reliever who dominated AAThames has over come injuries and had a very strong year, but again is 24. Jenkins to me is the only stud piece. The other 2 are disposable because realistically they are too old to be in the minors and won’t make the 2011 squad.

        Reply
  23. dizzle4

    15 years ago

    Any chance this potential deal is bigger than we think – with the Marlins including one of their first basemen (Sanchez or Morrison)? I realize Morrison’s been playing LF, but his defense hasn’t been rated well there, especially for a team looking to go in a pitching/defense direction.

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Logan’s ceiling is Lyle Overbay. Pass.

      Reply
      • dizzle4

        15 years ago

        I agree – but I would call it pre-wrist injury Lyle Overbay, and that guy was pretty great.

        Reply
    • Jeffery

      15 years ago

      maybe sanchez but I dont see them moving morrison

      Reply
      • marlinsfanatic

        15 years ago

        Gaby could become available team stated before, but then Marlins would need Morrison to go back to the infield and Coghlan stays in LF. Then we are screwed at 2B, CF and 3B if we trade Uggla.

        Reply
  24. PepePeppon

    15 years ago

    Arencebia, Rzepcenski, Jenkins/Stewart will do.

    Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Difference between Jenkins and Stewart is big IMO.

      Reply
      • Joshua

        15 years ago

        Yeah, with Stewart in that deal it becomes a completely laughable suggestion.

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          Jenkins is a far more coveted piece at this point.

          Reply
          • Joshua

            15 years ago

            Was that a joke? For what is he more coveted? Batting practice?

            I don’t think anybody anywhere views Jenkins as having front line potential. He’s a groundball guy who doesn’t miss many bats. He also didn’t rank in the Jays top 10 prospects recently, whereas the apparently less coveted Stewart came in at no. 5.

            Reply
            • moonraker45

              15 years ago

              ohh here we go, typical jays fans prospect hype

              stewart is a converted reliever who dominated AA as a 25 year old. He’s still not stretched out to go a full season as a starter, ( will be limited to 160 innings next year) which means he won’t be able to be a major league starter until he’s 27, 28? how can you even consider him a prospect? If you’re a pitcher and 25 and still not in the bigs, there’s usually a reason.

              I guess Bowman, Lubanski and Loewen are high on your radar too? What about Jeremy Accardo, did he crack the Jays top 10?

              Last year we’re you one of the people wondering why Randy Ruiz wasn’t called up yet?

              Reply
              • renegade

                15 years ago

                Stewart is 24 and wasn’t sent to AAA because it’s a bandbox and hitter’s league. Technically he could step in as the Jays #5 starter at the beginning at the upcoming season. So I fail to see how he won’t reach the majors until age 28.

                Reply
                • moonraker45

                  15 years ago

                  24 sorry. but my point still stands. ..

                  he’s 24 and he pitched 136 innings this year.

                  AA has stated that pitchers won’t be escalated in workload past 20% increase from their previous year total. Which means he’ll be capped at 160 innings and will need another year of seasoning as a starter before he could handle close to 200 needed to be a starter on a big league club.

                  So technically speaking he has zero chance of making the club next year. No way he beats out any of the top 4, and Drabek for the 5th spot based on workload alone.

                  Reply
                  • rzepczynski

                    15 years ago

                    zero chance? wow buddy….
                    and the reason he is 24 and still in the minors is because he is being converted into a starter…. he could of made the majors last year in the bullpen… you clearly aren’t high on stewart which is fine, no need to go on like “typical jays fan hype” like you know what your talking about… how many times have you seen stewart pitch? what if drabek struggles what about an injury? don’t go tossing around zero chance like you are the gm or coach

                    Reply
                    • moonraker45

                      15 years ago

                      ok so your reasoning is what if drabek struggles or gets injured, well I will counter act that what if, with a what if Zack’s arm falls off??

                      and yes he could move to the bullpen, show me where I said anywhere that he can’t be on the team next year. Moving him to the bullpen at this point depreciates his value, so that doesn’t make much sense. I said he cant be in the starting rotation because he isn’t ready for an entire workload and the Jays have options who can handle a full year’s workload.

                      And yes I’ve seen stewart pitch about 4 times,

                      so before you jump in to an argument you should really comprehend it first so you don’t look foolish and emotional

                      Reply
            • moonraker45

              15 years ago

              Bio

              Position: RHP
              School: Kennesaw State University
              Drafted: 20th overall in 2009 by the Toronto Blue Jays
              Scouting Report: Jenkins is a strong, thick-bodied right-hander who’ll touch 93 and sit 89-92 and was still up to 91 in the eighth inning of his start on Saturday. He throws a hard slider at 83-85 mph with good tilt but a somewhat early break and a straight changeup at 82-85 that might be more effective if he could take a little more off it. His delivery is rough, and he looks unschooled; his arm is way up above his shoulder, he lands on a very stiff front leg and his arm slot varies from three-quarters to low three-quarters. He has a starter’s build and starter’s stuff, but a team drafting him may have to work on his mechanics to leave him in the rotation. He has a chance to develop into a No. 2 or No. 3 starter, but not without some significant improvements.

              Reply
              • Joshua

                15 years ago

                I’m not sure what that was supposed to show. So he has the absolute upside of a no. 2 or no. 3 starter but “NOT WITHOUT MAKING SOME SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS.”How exactly is that special? I’m not saying he’s useless by any means. I’m merely saying he’s not ranked higher than Stewart.

                Reply
                • moonraker45

                  15 years ago

                  dude, I’m not in to fighting with people on the internet, you have your opinion I have mine. I don’t think I’m being that absurd either. I mean Jenkins has already thrown more innings then Stewart, he’s a big body that AA has made a point to say he’s targeting. I know that his numbers weren’t sparkling, but they made him lay off his slider and throw a lot of change-ups this year, especially when he moved up, in an effort to improve that pitch.

                  I may have under valued Stewart, but i still think Jenkins has a lot of value, he was picked in the first round just last year. Cheers.

                  Reply
          • renegade

            15 years ago

            What? Zach Stewart’s value is far superior to Chad Jenkins.

            Reply
  25. baseballz

    15 years ago

    I don’t get people’s obsession with Zep. He’s a #4 starter. Uggla’s going to be a type A free agent and will be in demand if we don’t trade him at the deadline, so you’d have to think that the Jays would have to give up at least two top ten prospects.

    Stewart would have to be dealt if were not going to deal Drabek. I could see Stewart, D’Arnauld/Perez, and maybe someone like Magnuson. Two pitcher you can plug in now and a future catcher with promise to help push Skipworth.

    Reply
    • lazerball

      15 years ago

      Calling a guy who’s posted an 8.42 k/9 and a groundball ratio north of 50% in 125 big league innings a 4th starter really seems like jumping the gun. Those aren’t attributes you find in a pitcher every day, and who’s to say he never finds better control?

      Reply
      • baseballz

        15 years ago

        125 big league innings wow, thats a pretty solid sample size. He also has a 4.32 walk rate in those 125 innings which isn’t so good but I wouldn’t say he has bad control based on that amount of innings.

        From watching him I’d say his walk problem stems from him really being just a two pitch pitcher. He does throw a changeup, but its below average. If he could get his changeup up to a major league average pitch then I would say he is better than a #4 starter.

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          so you mock him for using small sample size, but then go ahead and post a 4.32 bb rate in that same sample size??

          Reply
          • baseballz

            15 years ago

            No, I was proposing that his ceiling as a starter had nothing to do whatsoever with his walk rates,groundball rates or strikeout rates. The sample sizes are too small to get anything from it. To predict talent based on his skills to induce strikeouts and grounders based on less then 500 professional innings is a little pointless for a guy who has only been pitching for three years.

            Yes, I agree there was no need for sarcasm on my part and that was me being lazy. Since the sarcasm was in the first line of the first paragraph that means the whole paragraph was meant in a mocking tone. The second paragraph though I still believe that any problems or advantages from Rzeps game stems from his current position of being a two pitch pitcher. You can check up the stats on how well those pitches have faired in his professional career. Since were working with such a small sample size, to look at actual pitches thrown and how those have done, I would argue would be more effective at showing Zeps true talent level. I do apologize for the sarcasm it was just a lazy way of writing and making my point.

            Reply
        • lazerball

          15 years ago

          No need to be condescending just because I’m not in agreement with your assessment of his talent. Especially when you go on to claim that his walk problem is a result of his pitch repertoire as opposed to sample size. If his K and groundball ratios aren’t legitimate, then why would his walks be? Nothing about his minor league numbers seem to really suggest that they’re a fluke.

          Reply
          • YanksFanSince78

            15 years ago

            The “Rz” has a 3.5 career minor lge BB/9 rate and a mlb career avg of 4.3. His FB tops out at about 89-91 mph and his CH is mediocre. He has a career ERA of 4.32 and a career FIP of 4.36. He induces a lot of GB @ about 51% based on decent offspeed stuff. Those types of pitchers have trouble sustaining their stuff. He projects to be a Jon Garland type pitcher, which is NOT a bad thing, but really makes him no better than a #3 guy on a bad team and a number #5 on most good teams.

            Reply
          • baseballz

            15 years ago

            I do agree Lazer, I apologize for the tone. YanksFan is right though. If you take his ability to induce grounders and strikeouts in less then 400 innings in the minors then you need to appreciate his walkrate and era as indicative of future sucess as well. Zep has the base to be a very good #3-4, but if he had a change he could def help his stock, but he’s still young so only time will tell.

            Reply
  26. smokinjays

    15 years ago

    I hope they sign Uggla if only to prove to the fanbase that Rogers intends to spend with the big boys when the talent is available.

    Reply
  27. Frédéric Legendre

    15 years ago

    We won’t give up Arencibia for one year of Uggla.

    Reply
    • Jeffery

      15 years ago

      it is multiple years or 1 year and 2 top flight prospects (2 1sts)

      so he is worth more then a power catcher with poor defense (reportedly poor never got to see him personally)

      Reply
      • lazerball

        15 years ago

        Where has it been reported that Arencibia is poor defensively? I’ve mostly heard that he’s about average, and that seemed about right from what little we got to see of him catching in the bigs this year so I have no reason to doubt it.

        Reply
    • renegade

      15 years ago

      Why not? Arencibia is nothing special. Especially with D’Arnaud and Perez down the line.

      Reply
      • lazerball

        15 years ago

        Relying on prospects in A ball panning out does not a good plan for the future make.

        Don’t get me wrong, I like both of those guys, but the lower down in the minors you get the higher the burnout rates of prospects become.

        Reply
      • moonraker45

        15 years ago

        At this point trading Arencibia may not bring back full value for him. I do agree that he’s prob 3rd or 4th on the depth charts of catchers in the system.. but if he establishes himself gets a year or 2 under his belt, his value may skyrocket.

        If we could use him to get rasmus, then i’d change my tone, but to bring back uggla, i just dont think its worth it. . might as well just bite the bullet and sign beltre.

        Reply
        • rzepczynski

          15 years ago

          Triple A MVP? I think that his value is high… but you seem to know it all so I will trust your judgement

          Reply
          • moonraker45

            15 years ago

            So a players value is highest coming off a AAA Mvp season? It can’t go any higher is what you’re saying, well then we should trade him quickly!

            geeze give it a rest, you’re such an emotional tool. Do these guys take you for dinner and tuck you in at night?

            Reply
            • rzepczynski

              15 years ago

              how is that emotional? lol you clearly have never been with a woman if that is emotional to you…. and no I did not say it can’t go any higher im just saying it is high in my opinion stop replying with rewording incorrectly what I said then ending with some sort of 12 year old chirp

              Reply
      • jwredsox

        15 years ago

        What happened to all the Arencibia hype? People were flipping out before and after his first game and now fans are bringing him up in every trade offer.

        Edit: I’m not saying I think he is anything special either (I was a person trying to suppress the hype as usual) but after praising the guy I’ve seen fans who would rather him just be gone.

        Reply
        • lazerball

          15 years ago

          I don’t get the deal with people giving up on the guy either after what, 50 big league at bats? And even at that with zero consistency in playing time. After the year he had in the PCL I really think you need to at least try him out full time in the lineup for one year to see what you have in him, instead of just assuming that he’s peaked and throwing him to the curb as trade bait.

          Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          I think it has to do with the realization that he’s not the best catcher in the system..

          Personally I dont think its wise to flip him at this point, especially with no other catching options past high A ball.

          The jays have been mentioned in rumours with pretty much every player that has been or may be put on the market. Theres no depth in any other spot except pitching, so its just a matter of wanting pieces back and sacrificing the closest lamb

          Reply
      • jwredsox

        15 years ago

        And one last thing directed towards people who know the Jay’s system, What is so special about d’Arnaud? I realize he was a big piece of the Halladay trade but from his stats I don’t see anything special. He strikes out a pretty high % (21.5%) and only walked 20 times with limited power and a low batting average. Plus he was 21 at high A. Is this an example of a pitchers league or something? Or is it injury related because from his stats I don’t see the hype from his stats.

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          every jays prospect is the best prospect ever.

          no follow up questions please.

          Reply
          • jwredsox

            15 years ago

            second only to every Red Sox prospect thank you very much.

            Reply
          • rzepczynski

            15 years ago

            um no… He was playing injured this year had a bad year has the tools and has had a good year in A already… If it was only about numbers JEroloman would be good

            Reply
        • renegade

          15 years ago

          #81 rated prospect in baseball by BA. Go read a scouting report or something.

          Reply
          • jwredsox

            15 years ago

            They say his best tool is power and he hit 6 HRs in over 250 ABs so I was wondering whether this was just ballpark or him just not reaching his potential this season. And being #81 ranked prospect means nothing to me. Bryan Bullington was rated 53rd best prospect by them in 2003.

            Reply
            • moonraker45

              15 years ago

              Bullington was the example you came up with ?

              Brandon Wood was ranked #3 for petes sake!!

              Reply
              • jwredsox

                15 years ago

                Fine, Todd Van Poppel ranked #1, #3, and #7 during a 3 year span.

                Reply
        • TtD

          15 years ago

          D’Arnaud was suffering from a back injury all season that killed his season after a hot start. He was sent home early this winter to focus on getting healthy to try and get everything working again. He’s a well tooled player that calls an above average game already, hence the rave reviews. Defensively he’s almost MLB ready, so people are happy to gamble on the hitting tools developing.

          Reply
  28. robbiehiv

    15 years ago

    Whats wrong with Uggla at 1st?

    Reply
    • YanksFanSince78

      15 years ago

      The majority of Uggla’s value, or what makes him “elite” is his production as a 2B. As of 2010 there were 5 2B that had more than 18 hrs. Add Phillips, Utley and Kinsler as guys capable of doing it when healthy. That’s only 8 power hitting 2B. In 2010 there were 16 1B that had 20+ hrs. Add Berkman, Morneau, Lee, Youks and Morales to the list and that’s 20 guys capable of producing 20 + hr years @ 1B. None of those 20+ HR 2B are available on the open market this winter but there are about 10 1B who are available this winter as FA and a couple that are on the trade market that will give you 20-25 hrs + w/ their eyes closed. Dan Uggla would still be considered among the better offensive 1B if he made the switch but no where near as revered as he is playing 2B.

      Reply
      • moonraker45

        15 years ago

        very well said..

        funny enough that none of the 20+ hr 2b’s are available, yet the team rumoured to want him is a team that has a power hitting 2b locked up (potentially) until 2014

        Reply
  29. Randall

    15 years ago

    As a Fish fan, I don’t want to see Danny go anywhere. I want him to look at the very fair deal the team offered him and realized how huge that was coming from the perrenially penny-pinching team, I want the Marlins owenrship and FO to stop acting like vengeful teenage girls and for the two of them to throw their emotions out the window and look at the business decision.

    Personally, I don’t think Dan goes anywhere till the trade dealine if they can’t get a deal done. With as hard and painful as it is going to be to part w/ such an offensive mainstay in the middle of our order, no way the Marlins FO doesn’t stick to their guns and make it painful for the trading partner to part w/ some of their top talent. I think most GM’s would love to have Dan in their lineups, just not at the price Beinfest and Co are going to demand.

    So, I think the Marlins shrewedly make no move now and wait for some desparate playoff contender in need of power to come knocking in July. They will be much more likely to part w/ those coveted prospects at that time, even for a few month rental. That’s if they don’t agree on the extension.

    I still say get the deal done. Like my wife said today, is he that much more a risk at 35 than 34? Give him a conditional 5th year w/ performance-based triggers and a hefty buy-out. That way, Uggs wins by getting paid closed to what he was looking for if they buy out that 5th year, the Marlins win if Danny produces past his prime enough to trigger the 5th year.

    Reply
    • eviola1

      15 years ago

      It’s nice to dream.

      Reply
  30. Jason

    15 years ago

    Arencibia, Zep and Emaus seems about right to me. Gives the fishies two high upside kids and a solid AAAA player in Emaus.

    Reply
    • YanksFanSince78

      15 years ago

      Zep is a mid/back rotation finesse pitcher and Emaus is a 25 yo who may not have enough power to play 3B or a corner OF spot and his defense was too bad for him to play 2B in the minors. Arencibia is a good start but would probably require more than the other 2 you mentioned

      Reply
      • NorthYorkJays

        15 years ago

        I wouldn’t exactly call a LHP who sits 88-91 a “finesse” pitcher. Rzep was an extreme GB pitcher who missed bats in the minors with decent control, and keeps the ball in the park. He’s done a commendable job in his introduction to the majors, and the Blue Jays are still stretching him out in the AFL, where he’s 3-0 in 5 starts 26ip 21h 8bb 20k 0.69era 0hr and is killing worms all day. I think he could easily be a solid #3 over 180ip in the NL as soon as 2011, especially in a park like Miami that depresses HR to LF.

        Rzepczynski, Arencibia, and someone like Henderson Alvarez seems like a fair place to start.

        Reply
        • YanksFanSince78

          15 years ago

          Being a lefty vs a righty doesn’t determine whether or not you’re a finesse or a power pitcher. Derek Holland, Sabathia, Lester, Price are all guys that throw over 94 -96 mph and are considered power guys. I’m not saying that the “Rz” is a bad pitcher. However, using a pitcher who’s complete upside if he reaches his potential is that of a #3 starter in a pitcher friendly NL park isn’t what I’d expect to center a deal for Uggla. If Uggla is considered an elite,power hitting 2B like Utley and Cano then he should attract elite prospects/players and “Rz” isn’t elite. I would also say that the Marlins would rather go for a guy in the minors with the potential to be a #1 or #2 vs a guy in the majors who has shown himself to be a #3-#5.

          Reply
          • NorthYorkJays

            15 years ago

            Rz being a solid #3 in the NL was my prognosis for 2011…he IS the guy in the minors with the potential to be a #1 or a #2! Add in Arencibia + some SP arms that are far away and you have a decent package for Uggla. If you think the Marlins can do better than that, please tell how and from who.

            Reply
  31. Redhawk

    15 years ago

    “In a second tweet, Olney also notes that the Rockies were interested in acquiring Uggla midseason in 2010, but the Marlins slugger is likely to be too expensive for their tastes now.”

    I’m afraid as a Rockie fan, we are going to hear that often this winter, wither it’s in the form of a trade or for a free agent player.

    Reply
  32. moonraker45

    15 years ago

    Okay so despite all the disagreements about trade proposals, prospects etc

    I cant help but wonder about the thinking behind this in the first place.. If the plan is to move Uggla to third, why not just go after Beltre?

    Beltre is looking for what a 4-5 years, 60-75 mill.. Uggla just turned down 50 million, plus will cost some pretty decent pieces..

    Reply
    • NorthYorkJays

      15 years ago

      Because you can pursue Uggla as a one year option and either flip him for prospects in July or get 2 top picks in return if he leaves for a price you aren’t comfortable paying. I highly doubt AA is trading for him planning on an extension.

      Reply
      • TheodoreRoosevelt

        15 years ago

        Agreed.

        It fits in well with AA’s philosophy of “building” (which I am by now quite convinced *is* distinct from rebuilding and built-for-playoffs). The Jays will have plenty of picks in a deep draft in 2011, so AA can afford to lose a few prospects, especially those he’s not sold on, whilst acquiring assets who can be converted into prospects themselves and provide the possibility of a playoff push.

        Committing to Beltre for multiple years seems a “liability” move that AA simply wouldn’t take on.

        Reply
        • moonraker45

          15 years ago

          If it is just to acquire a Type A free agent, I think at that point it makes even less sense then if you wanted to acquire him to be a permanent fixture.I mean you will have to almost certainly give up one of your better prospects, plus 2 more high upside guys, all in an effort to get a Type A, which isn’t always a guarantee of getting a 1st round pick back. Especially Uggla who’s Elias ranking isn’t that high, many other Type A’s would be ranked in front of him, so a team who signed 2 type A’s would end up giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick to the Jays. I agree that Beltre is a liability move, but is a stopgap 3rd basemen really what this team needs right now?

          Reply
  33. StoopidSlyGuy

    15 years ago

    Uggla has a Uggly sub .400 OPS at the RogerCentre… Supported by a Huge Sample Size.

    Reply
  34. Adil

    15 years ago

    if somehow uggla is on the market for cheap, i make a trade but if the jays are trading something worthwhile for him then i rather trade for figgins.

    if this is AA just being smart and trading assets he doesnt like for something to flip later on thats fine but if uggla is the type of player he is targeting then that is going against everything him and farrel have said.

    Reply
  35. RBR

    15 years ago

    Yeah. Nice job not offering more than Omar Infante & Mike Dunn!

    Hahahahaha!

    Reply

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