February 16th Deadline For Pujols Extension

The deadline for an extension between the Cardinals and Albert Pujols is earlier than anticipated. The first baseman had been scheduled to arrive in Spring Training on February 19th, but he is now expected to report on February 16th, according to ESPN. That will reduce the sides' negotiating window by three days.

The Cardinals have until Spring Training to work out a deal with Pujols’ agent, Dan Lozano, or the three-time MVP will hit free agency after the season. Earlier today, we heard that the Cardinals had yet to make Pujols a formal offer as of last weekend.


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96 Comments on "February 16th Deadline For Pujols Extension"


piro18
4 years 5 months ago

Now more than ever a Ryan Howard for Albert Pujols trade seems like a road both teams should explore. If the Cards don’t think they can re-sign Pujols they can make the trade and have Ryan Howard under contract for the next 5 years.

The Phillies can afford to offer him 7-8 years at 28-30 million a year. What teams will be willing to pay that in the offseason? Boston and NYY both are set at 1B and you aren’t going to DH Pujols because he is a plus fielder.

quintjs
4 years 5 months ago

Cubs would, and Howard’s contract isn’t that dissimilar to what Pujols wants, and everyone would rather pay Pujols 30million for 8 years (as you describe) than Howard 25million for 5.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

Im not talking this will happen. I am saying they should explore it. Obviously the Phillies would have to add some prospects. I hear the hold up is the Cards do not want to go over 5 years. If thats the case Howard fits that mold perfect. I am in no way saying this deal should happen. Im just saying if you are the Cardinals shouldn’t you cover all bases. This guy could walk after the season and you have NOTHING. Howard is no Pujols. I know that, but he can produce in the middle of that lineup.

Once again I want to state this is not just a Howard for Pujols swap. It would take a package of probably 2 of the Phillies top prospects also. I am just saying the Phillies have the money to make the deal and the pieces to make the trade. How many other teams can say that.

NYY-Texiera (full no trade)
Boston- Gonzalez (just traded there, they wont just move him again)
Mets- No money
Braves- Have the prospects but do they have the money
Angels- Also a possibilty. They would probably rather wait until free agency and just pay
Texas- Same as Angels.
Dodgers- No money

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Interesting idea. Ryan Howard is a Missouri native too, no? I guess it makes sense in theory, but would Howard and Pujols have any say in the idea in the form of no-trade clauses? I wonder if either of them would reject such a trade.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

Pujols has a full NTC. Howard has a limited NTC. I am sure St. Louis is not on his blocked list. It would be totally up to Pujols but the ground work could be done.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

Don’t be sure that BoSox won’t resign Gonzalez. They may not move him but if this becomes a bidding war at the end of the season, and if the Sox have contracts (like Ortiz and Drew’s coming off the books), they could outbid any team out there. Making Gonzalez a FA and giving AP the contract he’s looking for. Gonzalez is a nice player but he’s not AP.

ARod's Ring
4 years 5 months ago

your other two wishes? aladdin.

4 years 5 months ago

i counter your offer with an offer of one Albert Pujols bobblehead doll and an order of toasted ravioli for Ryan Howard

hr
4 years 5 months ago

Nice try, Buster Olney

4 years 5 months ago

Pujols has 10/5 rights. He said he will block any trade. It’s not a discussion at this point.

phoenix2042
4 years 5 months ago

2 things: 1) pujols will veto any trade because of his 10/5 rights. and 2) if the cards don’t want to pay the best player in the game 30mil, they won’t want to pay a much much much worse first baseman only 5 million less. he’s a much more flawed hitter and a much worse defender, not to mention older. no way.

sheavendor
4 years 5 months ago

“..not to mention older.” Huh? Howard is two months older. I doubt age makes any difference.

phoenix2042
4 years 5 months ago

oh yea i forgot the machine could age. i think he forgot too. don’t tell him, or he might stop playing like he’s 25!

discdogbob
4 years 5 months ago

Supposedly, his agent asked 36 for 10. Gotta admit that’s boatload of cash.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

If he is asking for 36 a year for 10 years, he is crazy. He will never get that from anyone. What really hurts him is that he won’t have the Yankees and Red Sox in the bidding to drive up the price.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

He won’t get close to that. He might not even get $28 mil/year over 10.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 5 months ago

The Sox would have Anchor their side of a deal with Adrian Gonzalez and the Yankees with Teixiera and than both would have to empty the farm

nictonjr
4 years 5 months ago

For one year of Pujols?? Keep the guys they have, the prospects and let the Cards worry about the draft picks they will be getting…

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 5 months ago

Trust me if either team traded for Pujols they would certainly give him an extension

stl_cards16
4 years 5 months ago

Honestly, even if Albert would accept a trade. I think I would rather just pass on Howard and take the 2 draft picks when Albert walks as a free agent. If the Cards are going to spend 25mil, and not on Albert Pujols, I can find something alot better than Ryan Howard to spend it on.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

And thats a valid argument. I am just saying that if the Cardinals brass doesn’t want to anger their fans they could try a deal like this so that Pujols only walks away for 2 draft picks.

Pujols is the best player of my generation. Nobody is really even that close either. It would be tough to stomach for me as a fan to just watch Pujols leave for picks.

But I understand at the same token that Howard is a flawed player. He will only hit around .280 and strikeout around 150 times. He is an average fielder. But on the upside he will bring you normally if healthy anywhere from 40-50 HRs and 120 RBI. It would also have to include probably some money and top prospects.

Cubbie
4 years 5 months ago

I think that is a little much payroll for one team hens their pitching staff

MadmanTX
4 years 5 months ago

Pujols for Young.

mwagner26
4 years 5 months ago

I lol’d.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

As long as Hamilton, Andrus, and Feliz are thrown in.

phoenix2042
4 years 5 months ago

albert pujols for the entire royals’ farm system. fair?

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
4 years 5 months ago

not at this point

DK57
4 years 5 months ago

it’s gonna get done..

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
4 years 5 months ago

that’s also my deadline for college applications…interesting

stl_cards16
4 years 5 months ago

Welcome to two weeks ago. Albert Pujols will not accept a trade. And even if he would, Ryan Howard and his 25mil salary is not coming to St. Louis. It makes no sense.

4 years 5 months ago

Cards would get two draft picks if Pujols walks… Maybel they’ll come up with a Type ‘A+’ free agent and award four 1st round picks

nictonjr
4 years 5 months ago

Losing Albert Pujols nets the same compensation as losing Grant Balfour…

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

When you put it that way it kinda says a lot about the whole compensation system.

When does that get renegotiated?

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

conveniently, right before pujols is a free agent. Current CBA expires after 2011.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

I don’t think Pujols is going to get the insane deal he wants with the Yankees and Red Sox not involved. I wonder if even the Yanks and Sox think Pujols isn’t worth 30 mil/10.

Jntg4
4 years 5 months ago

The Cubs will raise the price when they bid.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Without the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies involved, I can’t see why the Cubs would need to go that high. I doubt the Rangers or Angels go near that figure, and the Mets and Dodgers will be lucky if they can afford Derrek Lee next year.

Jntg4
4 years 5 months ago

Ya, but if it is in FA, the Angels and Cubs could leave STL behind wondering what happened, when they see the two bid high. Just a though.

NomarGarciaparra
4 years 5 months ago

Everyone seems to be arguing this. While this argument seems valid, I still see Pujols getting an insane deal in FA. We’re not talking about a Prince Fielder/Ryan Howard/Mark Teixeira caliber player…we’re talking about Albert Pujols, one of the best players in the history of the game. Someone will pay up to get Pujols. Imagine all the publicity the signing would bring…not to mention how many empty seats will be filled!

Plus, there are surprises every year in FA…look to Werth as an example. (don’t forget Cliff Lee)

Victor Kipp
4 years 5 months ago

As much as I can’t stand Pujols and would hate to see him get his insane $$$. This is the time where Mets fans should be hoping and praying mark Cuban buys the Mets before next off-season. If any team needs a big name acquisition its the Mets. Not to mention Cuban would probably sign some pitching to boot, something the Mets haven’t done much of lately.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Pujols for Vladimir Guerrero. And yes, I am an O’s fan.

Jntg4
4 years 5 months ago

He isn’t staying… public perception of him says he will, but all the reports suggest otherwise. Cardinals fans have to face this possibility.

4 years 5 months ago

I, for one, would love to see the deadline pass without an accord. That way baseball fans everywhere (well, most fans) would get the renewed thrill that comes with the best player in baseball being on a new team!

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

thats what they thought about A-rod and only a small handful of teams ending up getting serious.

4 years 5 months ago

It’s funny to me if you read the actual articles word for word. Several articles put in words that are generalities and also coming to conclusions based on conversations that took place back in the beginning of off-season. Pujols will not negotiate during the season. This was established a long time ago during his first contract. Contract numbers. These have all been speculation based on the last A-Rod contract and using performance numbers to “guess” at a 300 mil / 10 yr. contract. It is also Media hype, and writers do not know anything that is going on. Both sides said they do not want this to turn into a Derek Jeter issue. So why would they turn it into a Derek Jeter issue? I guess I fell for the reports again since I am sitting here typing this and giving the writers what they want…….PUBLICITY.

4 years 5 months ago

Let him walk. With $30 mil/season we can keep Carpenter, sign Buerhle, and invest the extra in our outstanding youth.

riotmute
4 years 5 months ago

And get two studs with the picks

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

and sign Reyes and another big name guy. 300million gets you a lot of value.

safari_punch
4 years 5 months ago

Pujols is the new Derek Jeter.

Victor Kipp
4 years 5 months ago

Pujols is a douche. What a creep.

safari_punch
4 years 5 months ago

What did he do now?

Cubbie
4 years 5 months ago

This is going well (for ne)

disgustedcubfan
4 years 5 months ago

This Feb 16th deadline does not mean a thing. Albert’s agent is too busy to take the Cardinals calls in March or April? I think not.
If the Cards offer up $280-$300 mill after Feb 16th , the “negotiating window” will be wide open.

4 years 5 months ago

If you mean between April 26-May 17, then yes, I agree.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

People are getting all worked up because I brought this up. I am just saying that the teams make sense if they want to go down that road. The Phillies have the cash, prospects and Howard to offer up. How many other teams can say this? If the Phillies want to eat some cash to to make it work it couldn’t hurt.

I get he has 10/5 rights. Roy Oswalt also had a full NTC and decided he wanted a shot to win a WS or 2. I know Pujols has said he will not accept a trade after he reports. Same as he wont sign a contract after he reports.

All Im saying is, the Phillies may be the only team that can make this trade. Never said it will happen. Just thought it may be an option that both teams may explore.

Like I said if the he wants 36 million a year he is crazy. But even if Pujols walks from the Phillies they would be able to take a run at him in FA. Also the Phillies have Jonathan Singleton in the minors to play first base. He probably wont be ready until 2013 though.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

So what about the years of commitment? It’s not just about cash here. Holliday’s getting paid but definitely for less years than Puljos wants. It’s not just about the cash. Also, where’s the support for the Cards in showing Puljos you want to be competitive by acquiring Holliday as protection for AP in the lineup. I think you’re missing that side of the story.

NomarGarciaparra
4 years 5 months ago

By “boat load of cash,” you seem to be suggesting Holliday is severely overpaid…looking at Werth’s deal, Holliday’s deal looks much better. Even without Werth’s deal, I wouldn’t say Holliday’s contract is ridiculous. He’s been a great hitter throughout his career, and $18M/year isn’t unreasonable for him.

stl_cards16
4 years 5 months ago

Why would the Phillies be the only team that could make it work? There are about 10 other teams first baseman I would target in a trade before I even thought of Ryan Howard.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

and what first baseman would they be? You also have to remember why would someone trade away a stud first baseman if they really had no shot to re-sign Pujols. That is what I am trying to say.

If the Phillies were to go into the season with Ryan Howard as their 1st baseman, I will not be upset. I am very happy with his production. But when you have a shot to get the best player in the game, are you saying you don’t take a look at it?

stl_cards16
4 years 5 months ago

I would take Morales, Texiera, Youk or Agon, Cabrera…Theres 5 just on large market teams that could extend Albert. I would take all of those with their contracts for Albert before i would take Howard.

Of course it would make sense for the Phillies to look at it. That’s why theres no chance of it happening. It makes no sense for the Cardinals.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Then I guess they’ll have to be happy with two additional draft picks. Pujols holds all the cards (excuse the pun) here.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

he didn’t say he is worthless. Read it again. He said there are other first baseman he would much rather have than Howard, and i agree with his current contract and iffy production in 2010. Plus the sort of likelihood of a hitter of his nature to age as he gets older. IDK about 10 other first baseman, but a good 6 or 7. I can tell your the traditional type that still likes to use RBI’s so i won’t continue this any further because it won’t get anywhere.

vtadave
4 years 5 months ago

I think they’d much rather have Pujols for a year plus either exclusive negotiating rights after the season or picks than Howard’s contract, but I could be wrong.

NickinIthaca
4 years 5 months ago

there’s no excuse for that pun…. actually, there was no need to excuse the pun – it was a good one

vtadave
4 years 5 months ago

Yep, because RBI is the best statistic to compare first baseman. Forget about stuff like salary, defense, OBP, etc.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

I agree. All of a sudden Ryan Howard is the 12th best first baseman in the league. Obviously if he would take 10 over Howard and then add Pujols thats 11 ahead of him.

I only said 120 RBI because he was hurt last year and had a “down” year. Most players would kill for 30+ and 100+ RBI.

Howard Stats 2006-2010

2006- .313, 58 HR, 149 RBI, 108 BB, 181 K
2007- .268, 47 HR, 136 RBI, 107 BB, 199 K
2008- .251, 48 HR, 146 RBI, 81 BB, 199 K
2009- .279, 45 HR, 141 RBI, 75 BB, 186 K
2010- .276, 31 HR, 108 RBI, 59 BB, 157 K

Avg year- .278, 46 HR, 136 RBI, 86 BB, 184 K
(those stats aren’t too shabby)

Pujols Avg year from 2006-2010

.330, 41 HR, 122 RBI, 103 BB, 60 K

The only glaring difference between the 2 are Average and K’s. Like I said, Pujols is the better player but people that say Howard is very flawed are not correct. I admit he has some flaws but he is still a top 5 first baseman.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

i agree. one year of pujols, not having the burden of paying howard a bunch of money down the road, and 2 draft picks is worth more than howard’s production for the next some odd years.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

Yeah, I agree they wouldn’t do it, at least for Howard. I wonder if Pujols wouldn’t agree to a trade to the Phillies or some other contender, and if he would who the Cards would want back (because it wouldn’t be an overpaid player like Howard).

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

healthy Kendry Morales is probably on the same level as Howard but the contract swings things in favor of Kendry.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

INCLUDING CONTRACTS, i would definitely have to consider Youkalis, Gonzalez, healthy Mornaau, Pujols, Fielder because he is younger though his deal will be an an albatross as well, and on the fence about Morales if healthy and contracts. that would be who I would take over howard-WITH CONTRACT. If this were fantasy baseball, probably like 3 guys i’d take over howard.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

The idea is ultimately to make sure small market teams aren’t taken advantage of by large market teams. Of course it hasn’t worked out that way. The system is screwed up but I think it’s better than nothing.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

roy halladay? how convenient you use the guy with arguably the best control in baseball. He is not the standard, he is the exception. Beane has done great with his strategies especially with his funds. Give him a 100+million dollar payroll………

vtadave
4 years 5 months ago

Who then had the better 2010 here?:

Player A: .276/.353/.505, 108 RBI
Player B: .290/.385/.506, 86 RBI

A = Howard, B = Huff

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
4 years 5 months ago

They’ll be involved but not as major players, I can see both of them driving up the price to make sure he stays out of the AL East.

Andy_B
4 years 5 months ago

has nothing to do with hope but logic. If the Yankees signed Pujols it would mean having a 23.5 million dollar DH in Mark Texiera who is a gold glove first baseman, and it would also mean that the Yankees would have no where to put Jeter and ARod as their defense declines.

Similarly unless the Red Sox really aren’t going to sign Gonzo to a big extension which is rumored to be done, they won’t be Pujols thirty million to have Gonzo a gold glove first base man be a DH.

The big market teams that are in it are the Cubs and the Angels. The Dodgers and the Mets make sense too if their owners get their shit together. The Nats, Jays, and Rangers are all sleepers.

At the end of the day though, there’s just no way that the Cardinals spent the kind of money they did on Matt Holliday if they were worried about not having enough money to sign Pujols. They may be content to let Pujols go into free agency but there is no way that the Cardinals could really let Pujols walk, he just means too much to their team in both wins and the bottom line.

niched
4 years 5 months ago

It’s pretty obvious why. Both teams already have first basemen, neither of whom would be willing to move to DH. On top of that, Teixeira has a full no-trade clause. Unless the Yankees are able to unload Teixeira, they aren’t getting Pujols.

So, maybe the Sox do get involved, but only if they trade or fail to sign Gonzalez first, which is unlikely. Even if Gonzalez did move to DH, the Red Sox would be paying over $50 million per year for their first baseman and DH. That price for those two positions has the potential to cripple the Red Sox a few years from now.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

if were assuming ill health on those for whom it may apply, than i have to assume that Howard’s 2010 production is now the norm and yes, i would take 10 first basemen over that.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

ballpark? Kills pitchers, helps hitters. He did a good job with Barton, although he wasn’t drafted by Beane.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

2 glaring differences is quiet significant.

cardsfan1988
4 years 5 months ago

How many of Howard’s HR and RBIs came in Philly’s park? That park is tiny. Another thing, how could you not put up those numbers with Rollins and Utley hitting in front of you, and Werth behind. I’d hate to know the numbers Pujols would put up in a lineup like that. I mean putting up over a 100 RBIs with having Skip Schumacher and Jon Jay in front off you is something special. Put Howard in that lineup and in Busch Stadium and those numbers will go down considerably. Thats just my opinion though.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

Ok. So say the Cards didn’t sign someone (doesn’t have to be Holliday could be say Beltre or Crawford, whatever) to bolster that lineup. What would Puljos think? Would he think the Cards are not protecting him and being competitive? And offering him a 10-year deal at the richest contract in history still puts a financial strain on the team for future moves. Great he’ll be getting records on a team that’s going nowhere because he ‘s the franchise. What if the Cards say they will give the most money of any player out there but for the same number of years we signed Holliday? You think he’d go for that. I DEFINITELY DON’T.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

barton hasn’t developed? he led the entire AL in walks, and plays outstanding defense. He isn’t your prototypical first baseman, but so what? he isn’t a #3,4 hitter, he is more of a #2 hitter, and a damn good one.

Jntg4
4 years 5 months ago

It isn’t them letting him walk, it is that they can’t seem to afford him.

jmcbosox
4 years 5 months ago

either the mods are on break or you slipped one thru the 5-hole

Andy_B
4 years 5 months ago

They can’t afford to not sign him. The cards would sell more tickets being a 500 team with Albert Pujols than they would being a .550 team without him.

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

Hence, why I said Pujols is better. Nobody is an Albert Pujols. Just because Pujols is so far ahead of the pack does not mean Howard is any less effective.

Ryan Howard is a middle of the lineup, run producing machine. He isn’t the high contact guy like Pujols but how many other active first baseman boast the career averages of Ryan Howard. Im going with not many.

I still say Howard is a top 5 first baseman and people saying they would take 10 other first baseman are crazy. Add that to the fact that most of the teams that can afford to pay Pujols what he wants already have established players there.

Jntg4
4 years 5 months ago

Correct, but they have to have money available in order to sign him in the first place. They probably will get a deal done at some point, but the signs aren’t looking good at all.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

he’s 24 years old. I expect him to develop 20Hr power rather smoothly. .400obp+20ish HR’s+ cheap = better than howard.

Andy_B
4 years 5 months ago

The cardinals have some of the highest ticket prices and routinely sell the stadium out, while their TV market is small, they are relatively comparable to the Phillies in terms of revenue. Bill Dewitt may claim he’s hamstrung because of the stadium deal, but the Cards have plenty of money to get the deal done, but they will have a lot less if they lose Pujols.

NomarGarciaparra
4 years 5 months ago

I’m not sure if you’re the posting this everywhere…but I could swear I’ve been seeing this everywhere.

One instance I remember is “Mike Lowell, can you pitch?” – B. Cashman

haha

piro18
4 years 5 months ago

Did you read anything I wrote? I am not comparing Pujols and Howard. I have said numerous times that Pujols is the best player in the game and its not even really close. I am comparing Howard to the rest of the first baseman in the league. He stacks up very well against the best of the best at the position.

I agree Howard is not the player Pujols. The whole thought patter was that with Howards number across the board and if the Cardinals really can’t sign Pujols, they need to get something for him other than 1 first rounder and 1 supplemental pick.

Fans would not be happy with guys that wont be in the majors for another 5 or so years. If you can replace Pujols with a guy that hits 40+ HRs a season and 130 RBI among other things I think it would take some of the sting away. Granted people will not be happy to lose Pujols but they MUST get something in return if they can’t sign him.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

actually, thats exactly what you were doing: Comparing Howard to Pujols. “2 glaring differences is all that seperates them” how is that not comparing the two?

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

howard has near identical H/A splits actually. I admit i was shocked. The lineup plays a big factor though as you said.

Tank84
4 years 5 months ago

Morales: .306 AVG 34 HR 108 RBI .924 OPS Age 25
Howard: .279 AVG 45 HR 141 RBI .931 OPS Age 29

2009 season, since Morales season was cut short in ’10. Judging by these numbers, yes you have to take Morales over Howard. Cheaper, younger, and only slightly less productive. I would assume his glove makes up for the offensive lack of production

tacko
4 years 5 months ago

You have no idea what Billy Beane’s (and Sandy Alderson’s) philosophies for creating and developing a team were nor what results they produced.

With the lowest payroll in their division, the A’s were either at the top or second in their division from 1999-2006.

Yes, they emphasized OBP, but that’s not what they were all about. Beane was interested in having players with valuable skills that no other team valued, such as OBP (and thus, acquire OBP for cheap).

However, the rest of baseball has caught on about the importance by now and Beane does not place as much emphasis on it anymore because it no longer gave him a competitive advantage in scouting players.

And where do you get this idea that they were never able to drive in runs because they didn’t hit for average. They were an offensive powerhouse in the early 2000’s so I don’t know where you get the perception that Beane can’t acquire hitting talent.

As for pitching, they led the league (or were at least top 3) in ERA for most of the late 90’s and 2000’s (Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, Cory Lidle? or do you only know of household names. yeah, look up their early 2000 stats on baseball-reference).

It’s pretty obvious from the stuff you post that all you really spend timing noticing are stats like wins, hr’s, and rbi’s. These are really common symptoms of bandwagon fans that refuse to believe that greater players and franchises exist outside their own.

It really shows through the fact that you’d rather have a declining Howard (yes, he’s declining, look at his stats) at $25 million per year over Pujols for $30 million per year (albeit for 8-10 years) or that you’d rather take Howard over the other first basemen mentioned above.

There are players that are better than Phillies’. Get over it.

Bean1010
4 years 5 months ago

Don’t count out the Nationals. They have ambition and more money than you think. I read they wanted to increase their payroll past $100m total.

Also, the Mets have to do something to get attendance back up, and if Pujols will add 3,000 or 4,000 fans per game, plus food, merchandise and TV ad revenue, he would pay for himself.