Ortiz Will Affect Red Sox’s Outfield Plans

The Red Sox lost their closer yesterday, and today GM Ben Cherington told reporters (including Peter Abraham of The Boston Globe) that losing their DH would affect what the team does in right field (Twitter link). If they're able to retain David Ortiz, they're unlikely to chase a big bat for the outfield. Scott Lauber of The Boston Herald provides a quote…

“There’s some interesting guys out there that could factor into our right-field mix,” said Cherington. “A lot of that depends again on David. If David’s here, we’re going to go in a certain direction with the outfield. If he’s not here, it sort of opens it up a little bit. There’s alternatives, both in free agency and in a trade market for guys that can play right field.”

Ortiz, 36 next week, hit .309/.398/.554 with 40 doubles and 29 home runs in 2011, his best output since 2007. Boston's right fielders, on the other hand, hit just .233/.299/.353 as J.D. Drew battled injuries and fill-ins like Josh Reddick, Mike Cameron, and Darnell McDonald struggled. Rick Ankiel and David DeJesus could represent low-cost right field solutions, though that is just speculation.

The Red Sox did not offer Ortiz a contract during the exclusive negotiating period, but yesterday we heard that the two sides have been talking.


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102 Comments on "Ortiz Will Affect Red Sox’s Outfield Plans"


Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

I dont get why ortiz = not pursuing a RF ? 

vtadave
3 years 9 months ago

Yeah same thought here. Guess it’s financial, as it’s easier to fill DH at a decent price than RF I guess.  Ortiz + Reddick > cheap DH + overpriced free agent RF.

3 years 9 months ago

Well the cheap DH would be Lavarnway, and I don’t see why the RF would necessarily be overpriced.  Also, it can be reasonably argued Youkilis shouldn’t be expected to play every day at third, and allowing him to get some DH starts would keep him fresher.  I could easily see Beltran and Lavarnway outproducing Ortiz and Reddick next season, and Beltran and Ortiz will get similar money.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Beltran might be about the same annualy as Ortiz but he will definetly get more years.

I have a feeling that the Sox will use this excuse as justification as to why they didn’t bring him back and will then go out and snag Beltran instead. Makes a lot of sense to sign Beltran and keep both him and Youk fresh by playing them at DH.

Harrison
3 years 9 months ago

I believe if Ortiz doesn’t re-sign with the sox the sox sign Beltran who will split time between RF and DH. Personally I believe Beltran who be a better solution bc he can play 2 positions compared to ortiz’s one and plus we’d be paying them the same amount per year. Another thing is Beltran is a switch hitter.

gwell55
3 years 9 months ago

Beltran’s problem to me is he isn’t that healthy nor has he been good since 08 and last year was ok BUT it was a contract year.   He went to the NL and got his goddy numbers against inferior pitching compared to Ortiz also.  Another thing is if he does get hurt this year for Boston you have wasted alot of money that can’t then be replaced in order to get another big bat at the deadline.  Big Papi has been relatively healthy for his entire career and with him in our lineup you use Reddick in Right (.280 .327 .457  .784 109 OPS+) who has numbers for half season (278 AB and a rookie) like Beltran’s 2010 season of 255 AB  .255  .341 .427  .768 109 OPS+.

Seems like Papi plus Reddick is better than Beltran and ? DH or another rookie! 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I agree that Beltran is a health risk which is why I wanted the Yankees to steer clear of him.

However, even though it was a walk year and he shouldn’t be expected to replicate it in 2012 (because of his fragility) he had better than an “ok” year.

As for this weak pitching you speak of in the NL, I have no clue as to what you speak of. The NL East boasted 4 of the top 11 teams in FIP in all of baseball in the Phillies, Braves, Nats and Marlins. Not exactly an easy time for Beltran, especially considering he played in the enormous Citifield. By all account his numbers should increase in the AL East where he gets to face the O’s and Jays (2 of the bottom 5 in FIP) 18x each, not to mention the friendlier confines of Fenway vs Citifield.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Guess I should’ve read your’s first, huh?

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

Ortiz can play a second position, 1B.  And he manages not to embarrass himself when he does.  But the fact that 1B is his second position is part of the problem.  The Sox already have a top notch 1B in A-Gon, and the only reason to play Ortiz at 1B in interleague games is if the Sox want to give Agon a day off.  But either way, it takes a big bat out of the lineup in those IL games.

If the Sox were to, say, let Ortiz walk and share the DH job between Youk and Lavarnway, those guys play positions other than 1B (Youk-3B, Lav-C), so you can get them into the game without removing a guy like A-Gon.

There’s a definite downside when your DH’s secondary position happens to be occupied by perhaps your best offensive position player.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

Well basically the options are cheap DH (Lavarnway) + pricy RF, or cheap RF + pricy DH…I think that’s what he means.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

There’s also the advantage that Lavarnway is an up and coming kid with proven power at the minor league level who is MLB ready or very nearly MLB ready.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

I think it might mean: no Ortiz = Beltran.  Beltran would likely be given a fair amount of time at DH, but you wouldn’t sit Ortiz to play him there.  (<~ I suppose the same could apply to Sizemore, though he wouldn't likely provide quite the offense that Beltran would).

If Ortiz sticks around they probably go with an internal option, or someone who doesn't have quite the bat that Beltran does but wont need to play at DH.

cyberboo
3 years 9 months ago

The whole issue revolves around one thing.  If Boston offer arbitration, Ortiz remains with the Red Sox.  There isn’t one team in baseball that will give up a first-round draft pick for him.  Ortiz will take the Red Sox to arbitration, win his 15 – 20M in 2012 and that answers the question.  If arbitration isn’t awarded, teams will then sign him and Boston pursue their other options.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

There are definitely teams that would give up a draft pick to sign him; he wont get 15-20mm in arbitration (he also wont accept arbitration); and arbitration can’t be “not awarded,” if it does go to arb he is on the team, it’s just a matter of what he will be paid.

cyberboo
3 years 9 months ago

Ok, you can automatically rule out an NL team, because the DH isn’t used and he can’t play the field.  No one is going to sign a player, give up their first rounder for a 12M dollar player.  That narrows the field dramatically.
Yankees, don’t need a DH.
Texas, don’t need a DH
Detroit, don’t need a DH
Toronto, you have a better chance of winning the powerball lottery than getting their 17th pick.
Angels, they have four DH’ players already with nowhere to play them.
the last option is Cleveland and they already have Hafner at DH.  

Out of all those teams, only Cleveland is a fit, but only because they are known for making stupid decisions.  

So, it boils down to whether the team offers him arbitration.  If they do and he accepts, they are looking at 15 – 20M in 2012, because that is what he will be awarded from his stats the last few years. He submits a total, the Sox submit their amount. If he declines, it becomes a matter of what Ortiz will agree to. Other teams aren’t even in the picture.  Boston can then attempt to sign him, but it still means 10 – 12M per year for two years at least, with an option.  As I said, there is only one team that might give up their draft pick, but that has a million to one chance of happening. That is some option. Ortiz has to sign with Boston or retire.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

There are also teams with protected draft picks who would only have to give up a second round pick to sign him, as well as any team that signs a higher ranked free agent.  If Boston doesn’t just re-sign him they are certain to offer arb, and he is certain the reject it; if he doesn’t end up back in Boston someone will sign him.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t agree with you, MaineSox.  I think that if Ortiz is offered arbitration, it’s certain that he does take it.  Let me explain why.

In arbitration, he’d be guaranteed a 10% raise, which would at a minimum get him a $13.75M contract for next year.  That’s the minimum, and it could be higher.  But that seems to be well about the market rate for aging DH’s.  Now, yes, Ortiz could be a special case, but I’m not sure that I see any of those lesser teams being willing to pay big money on a 2 or 3 year deal for any DH.  I just don’t.  (The Jays might consider it, since they are a “lesser” team in a big market and could afford it, but I think that they’re more the exception than the rule.)  

Ortiz has expressed an interest in staying in Boston.  And taking arb would get him a very sizable contract for next year, and if the Sox kept offering arbitration (in theory), he could keep getting these base+10% contract awards and get paid very well.

But if the Sox decide that they want to move on from Ortiz, I think that offering him arbitration at this point, given the nature of the DH market, would be a highly risky thing, because I think that there’s a very good chance that Ortiz would accept arbitration and be happy with $13.75M or more for next season.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Why would he go from wanting a 3 years deal, to effectively accepting a one year deal, even if it is for a $1-2mm raise?  Especially at this point in his career; if he accepts arbitration and has a bad year next his career could effectively be over, if he were to decline arbitration and sign a 2-3 year deal he would be “safe” even if he has a poor year next year.  I think even a 2/20 deal would be better for him, and his career, at this point than a 1/14 or whatever he would get in arbitration.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

The key point, MaineSox, is whether he could get such a deal or not.

Yes, you are correct that there’s some risk in going year to year at this point. But I don’t see any team giving him a 3 year deal. That seems nearly insane. 2 years is possible. But will he be able to get that 2/20 deal? I don’t know.

A lot also depends on how greatly he wants to stay in Boston.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

I honestly don’t think he cares about staying in Boston, at least not enough to take a one year deal when he believes he can get at least two. 

I don’t think it would be unreasonable to say that he would even be better off with a 2/16 deal than a 1/14.  On a one year deal he has to perform next year or he could very risk ending up out of baseball after next year; on a two year deal (even for less money) he is guaranteed two more years in baseball, and also has two years to show that he isn’t “done” should he decide to continue playing after next year.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

It’s a risk. But he’d probably have to drop off a LOT to not be able to make up that $2M in the following year. OTOH, if he had a nice year, he could come out well ahead of the game.

As for whether he wants to stay in Boston or not, who really knows (other than David)? Guys will say that they want to stay, but usually it’s just a PR line. But I’m sure that some guys really mean it. It’s just that there’s no real way to know who means it and who’s only saying it for PR reasons.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I certainly think the O’s might be a destination for Ortiz and they won’t lose a pick at all since it’s protected. Maybe even the A’s or M’s who always need offense.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

There are definitely teams that would give up a draft pick to sign him; he wont get 15-20mm in arbitration (he also wont accept arbitration); and arbitration can’t be “not awarded,” if it does go to arb he is on the team, it’s just a matter of what he will be paid.

cyberboo
3 years 9 months ago

The whole issue revolves around one thing.  If Boston offer arbitration, Ortiz remains with the Red Sox.  There isn’t one team in baseball that will give up a first-round draft pick for him.  Ortiz will take the Red Sox to arbitration, win his 15 – 20M in 2012 and that answers the question.  If arbitration isn’t awarded, teams will then sign him and Boston pursue their other options.

gwell55
3 years 9 months ago

While the money may be an issue right now and truly so as the contract
obligations for the signed players at this point is 132M plus 9
arbitration cases such as Ells (9 M min), Bard (1m or so), Ace (same as
Bard), Salty ( 1.5M or so), and the others reaching to say 148M plus
Miller (if they pick up option) leaves us with about 15 to 20m to play
with ( assuming they increase payroll 5 more million from last year at
the beginning) and we need 2 relievers.

So if they get Ortiz back at 2@10M:disqus  then we have 5 to ten million left to get pair of relievers to stabilize the pen with Paps gone. 

And as to RF:

Josh’s line was .280 avg, .327 on base, .457 slugging %, .784 OPS
and was a 109 OPS+ which is better than decent.  Unlike the writer who
calls him a failure when he wasn’t.  His only problem was Francona
deciding to sit him against lefties when he had a .275 avg and was on
base at a .341 clip which is dang good for a rookie lefty in any lineup
no less Boston’s.   And his arm is better than Kalish’s and McDonald if they keep him or Aviles as a backup out there. 

As to the dreck that Ankiel brings you get a worse line than Reddick as Rick was .239, .296, .363, .659 for Wash last year and .210 avg, .324 OBP, .328 SLG, and a worst .651 OPS for ATL 2 year ago.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t know if you were actually implying this or not, but it kinda seemed like you were implying that Reddick is a better option than Kalish; quite literally though, the only thing Reddick is better at than Kalish is throwing.

gwell55
3 years 9 months ago

I will go on record that Reddick is a better option IN RIGHT FIELD as it takes an arm to play there properly,  that is why drew hung on so long was he had enough arm to hold the runners mostly from going to third on that line drive single.  

Kalish is a Ellsbury replacement when he hits free agency (sadly but boras factor),  He can play left too but in Boston Kalish’s right field chances will be short IMO.  Also Kalish needs a year at Pawtucket to heal his confidence after the injury layoff. 

By the way Reddick also seems to of figured out that to stay in the bigs especially Boston he has to be able to take pitches to run up the pitch count and draw walks … he did that this year (Kalish learned earlier just as the rest of the young outfielders for boston did) and figuring that out showed up in his hitting ability improvement. 

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Reddick’s arm is better than Kalish’s, but that doesn’t mean Kalish doesn’t have the arm for right field (he actually has an above average arm, just not quite as good as Reddick’s).  Drew stuck around in RF because his overall defensive game was very very good (not just his arm) and because his offense was extremely underrated.

Kalish also isn’t an Ellsbury replacement; he’s a right fielder who has enough range to do spot duty in CF but nothing more (which, coincidentally, is exactly what you need to cover Fenway’s huge RF).  Despite a slightly weaker arm his overall defensive game in RF is actually better than Reddick’s.

It’s way too early to say that Reddick is suddenly a new and improved patient hitter, he’s played his whole career to this point as a hacker and one year with decent plate discipline isn’t enough to say he has changed that (it wasn’t exactly a guy figuring it out at A or AA either, he’s been around a while).  Even if we were to pretend that we could say that that is who Reddick is now, Kalish would still have better discipline, and a better overall approach at the plate than Reddick.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t think that Kalish will be a factor for RF to start the season.  With his lost season last year, I think that Kalish will need to spend at least half a season at AAA to make up for lost time.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Sure, I don’t believe Kalish will be a factor to start next year either, but he’s a better overall option than Reddick once he is ready to return.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

Yes, I agree with that. Reddick’s more MLB ready right now, but Kalish probably has a higher upside. It’s sort of like the difference between a MLB-ready AAA player that’s passable and some single A player that may be a stud a few years from now. (Maybe overstating it a little, but you get the point.)

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t know if you were actually implying this or not, but it kinda seemed like you were implying that Reddick is a better option than Kalish; quite literally though, the only thing Reddick is better at than Kalish is throwing.

3 years 9 months ago

Rf vs. David? And you’re serious asking this question? Okay. You’re entitled to your opinion. Here’s mine on that subject: On a list of 1-20, 1 being the highest priority, re-signing David and getting a new manager are tied for #1. Getting a new RF is probably around #40. Okay, so I exaggerate.  But not by much.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

Gotta disagree.  I’m in the “let Ortiz walk” camp.  The Sox need to start getting younger.  Furthermore, the Sox have a couple of prospects who will be ready for next year and the following year to replace current Sox players.  That is, Lavarnway is MLB ready now as the potential Ortiz replacement, and probably after next season or so, Middlebrook will be MLB ready to replace Youk at 3B when Youk’s contract runs out.

If the Sox extend Ortiz and/or Youk, they will be blocking the youngsters that are their intended replacements.  Also, if the Sox let Ortiz walk, they can split the DH duties between Lavarnway and Youk, thus helping to relieve some of the physical stress of playing Youk at 3B every day.  Furthermore, Ortiz’s secondary position (1B) is a position that’s already superbly occupied by A-Gon and means that for interleague games, getting Ortiz in the lineup requires taking AGon out of the lineup.  But this is not the case when Youk or Lavarnway are the DH’s.

There is actually a very strong case for letting Ortiz walk.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

He was simply asking why it would have to be Ortiz or a RFer.

3 years 9 months ago

Because the lineup is fine. They need to use most of their resources to address the pitching.

Robert5286
3 years 9 months ago

Because they are cheap!!

missyae
3 years 9 months ago

Just means they wont spend on Beltran, will go cheaper.

john12121212
3 years 9 months ago

Smoke screen

Swarley
3 years 9 months ago

You really don’t see it? B/c if they resign Ortiz, they don’t need to make up for that loss of production in RF. If he comes back, they get all of that production back, so RF doesn’t become a big need then for offensive output.

Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

don’t see why they still wouldnt see if they could improve RF, its not like moneys an issue and/or there is someone on the market that is going to command a huge contract

3 years 9 months ago

“its not like moneys an issue”

Yes it is.  The Red Sox absolutely have a budget, they’ve rarely exceeded the lux tax limit, and when they have they’ve barely gone over the limit.  The Red Sox have a lot of expiring contracts, but pay bumps to arb players and Gonzalez almost negate that.  The Red Sox can’t sign Ortiz, Beltran, and then make the necessary upgrades to the pitching staff.

Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

They just saved all the money from paps and again, there is no OF on the market that is going to command a huge contract.

I would understand if they said no we’re not in on carl crawford, but there’s nothing like that available this offseason.

3 years 9 months ago

and………the JD Drew $, and his expired contract

Paps  + Drew + Papi at cheaper annual = ~>$25M

Sox shouldn’t go cheap

get Papi at cheaper annual  with 2 yrs guarantee and 1 year option

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

You guys are forgetting that a number of the players already on the roster have built-in raises in their contracts that will be eating up some of the money from the expired contracts.  Plus there’s also the arbitration raises to the younger players. 

There’s not as much money left to work with below the lux tax cap as you guys are thinking.  Brian is correct on this point.

andrewyf
3 years 9 months ago

Well, they easily could, John Henry and Co. simply choose not to.

Still though, they could fairly easily sign both Ortiz and Beltran and not go over the luxury tax limit, which I think is around $180M this year.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

But they also have pay increases to several guys (including about $15mm increase to Agon), so they don’t have a ton of room before hitting the luxury tax threshold.

They already have about $145mm on the books for the 40man roster for next year before raises to the arbitration guys, and need to fill RF, DH, SP#4, SP#5, Closer/Setup, backup catcher, 4th OF, and likely two other bullpen spots.  After Arb raises (including to guys like Ells, Salty, and Bard who will see fairly substantial raises) they will likely be more like $155mm, so they’ll have about $25mm to fill all of those spots. 

Even if you pretend Ortiz will take a pay cut to $10mm and pretend they can get Beltran for $10mm AAV they would only have $5mm to get 2 starting pitchers, 2-3 bullpen spots, backup catcher, and 4th outfielder.  Not going to happen.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

That’s right.  The Sox owners choose not to exceed the luxury tax limit, at least to open the season.  In past years, they have proven that they are willing to go above that limit at the trading deadline, if there’s a good reason.  But they clearly don’t like to start the season above that limit.

BoSoXaddict
3 years 9 months ago

Papi will be back. I predict 2years/25mil

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

I highly doubt they’d give him that contract. That’s over paying him. He’s an aging DH. Can’t play any position. 

Maximum 1 year. 2 years is ridiculous.

NYPOTENCE
3 years 9 months ago

Although two years sounds “ridiculous”, that’s what it might take to retain big papi.

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

Then let him walk. It’s only a matter of time before he reverts back to what he did a few years ago (when everyone was yelling for him to be benched). I’d rather Youkilis DH than Ortiz anyway.

expos94
3 years 9 months ago

i dont understand why everyone wants to have youk dh he had a pretty good fielding percentage and i know that is not the best indicator but still

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

The reason is that 3B beat up Youk physically last season.  I could see Youk and Lavarnway splitting the DH job, with Youk being a part time 3B-man.

jmcbosox
3 years 9 months ago

true.  ortiz wants 3, sawx want 1, meet in the middle at 2/18-20MM.  id be content with that as a fan, and i think ben and david would be pleased as well.

slider32
3 years 9 months ago

Teams will be leary of Papi because of the 2 years and the draft picks. I think he might only get one year from the Sox. I would offer Beltran two years and Ortiz one, although I don’t think either one will sign for that.

Mario Saavedra
3 years 9 months ago

 He won’t get an arb offer, that would make the sox give him a salary of 15+ MM.

jmcbosox
3 years 9 months ago

remember that time when theo caught everybody off guard and offered varitek arbitration?  tek declined and then theo took him and boras behind the toolshed…..that was sweet.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Arb doesn’t work that way. Ortis would have to ASK for $15 to $20 mil, it wouldn’t just be awarded to him. I think the Sox would offer him $14 mil (he earned $12.5) and if he went to $20 mil he would run the serious risk of losing as the arbitrator must choose between one or the other.

Even if he did win whatever he asked for in arbitration I think the Sox would prefer to overpay on a 1 year deal than issuing a 2 year deal. Also, depending on the numbers they are hearing from Boras, overpaying Ortiz on a 1 year arb ruling might be a better option than dealing with Beltran and Boras.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

Mario, if the Sox offered Ortiz arb, the minimum award would be $13.75, i.e. last year’s salary of $12.5M plus an automatic 10% raise.

But I agree that offering Ortiz arbitration would be extremely risky because he’d probably make much more in arb, even with a minimum award, than he’d make as a free agent.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

LOL maximum 1 year? what does that even mean? can you get any less than 1 year?

FacelessGeneralManager
3 years 9 months ago

Half year contract with second half option based on performance.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

No man, that’s too much risk. I propose a 1 game contract, with 161 additional club options.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

You’d know about 1 day contracts wouldn’t you Nomar?

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

My deal turned out to be a win-win situation. I think Big Papi will find it very rewarding as well.

FacelessGeneralManager
3 years 9 months ago

What about playoffs?

jmcbosox
3 years 9 months ago

playoffs?  playoffs?

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

Oh right, forgot about those. Club options for that too!

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 9 months ago

Oh right, forgot about those. Club options for that too!

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

It means I wouldn’t give him anything other than 1 year.

And yes, you can get no years & no contract. That’s certainly less.

3 years 9 months ago

Rick Ankiel isn’t a fit in Boston at all.  Another lefty, and he isn’t as good as Reddick or Kalish right now anyways.

3 years 9 months ago

put reddick in and sign Ortiz and get Heath Bell and Colon as SP

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

Um Heath Bell would be killed in the AL East. No thank you.

Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

lol are you serious?

his road FIP of 2.97 told you that?

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 9 months ago

the fact that he’s (she’s?) wrong doesn’t make him a tool. That’s kinda rude of you.

Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

how do you know i was calling him a tool?

you don’t remember their #1 hit from 2002′ Ode to Heath Bell?

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

The fact that his strike out rate has been declining as has his swing & misses. The fact that his road/home splits are different. The fact that he only got good when he went to the Padres — in Petco & in the NL West. The fact that he has terrible numbers against the Yankees, Jays & Orioles. The fact that he was extremely lucky on balls in play.

Lunchbox45
3 years 9 months ago

so you just decided to say things without looking them up?

His home FIP is 2.87, a whopping .10 lower than his road FIP, he’s not a product of Petco.

His career babip is .301 and his years in SD have worked out to around there as well.

His k/9 hasn’t been declining, last year it was at its highest point at 11.06 k/9, this year it fell.

vs boston.. .563 OPS (16 batters)
vs toronto..1.511 OPS (11 batters)
vs Yankees.. 922 OPS (24 batters)
vs Baltimore .644 OPS (21 batters)

almost insignificant sample size.

just admit you were wrong

FamousGrouse
3 years 9 months ago

fwiw Bell vs TB Rays 3.1 IP, 14 batters faced,  6k/3BB , 1 H, 0.00 era, 1.20 WHIP 
.468 ops

Lars Chunks
3 years 9 months ago

Colon?  Again?  Really??

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

The 2011 version was much better than the 2009.

As a Yanks fan I can’t understand why they would prefer Garcia over Colon. It’s so obvious that Colon regressed last year because of his hamstring injury and the fact that between winter ball, spring training and the 150 innings (est) he threw with the Yanks his arm was probably too tired. If he would take a 1 year deal with an option the Yanks should bring him back.

Tony DiQuattro
3 years 9 months ago

Please resign him and don’t go after Beltran so the Giants have some hope.

Brian Harps
3 years 9 months ago

Ankiel would be a cheap fit..maybe 2 mill a year

hoagiebuchanan
3 years 9 months ago

Hope DeJesus stays away…wouldn’t mind the Phils picking him up out the scrap pile!

slider32
3 years 9 months ago

Reddick is better than Ankiel.

WrigleyTerror37
3 years 9 months ago

first thing i thought of when i saw this was… Andre Either. im thinking the Red soxs want to resign Big Papi for one year, then sign a cheap RF for 1 year. So when Either is a free agent they can cut ties with Papi and go after Either, as the replacement Lh power bat in 2013. Now the Red Soxs want to see if big papi would come back on a one year deal, or not. if he says no, then they have to look into the market to see who can give them big papi power, and who can play rf. 

StanleyHudson
3 years 9 months ago

That’s definitely a possibility. But you have to factor Ryan Kalish into there somewhere. I think the Sox organization has high hopes for him.

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

… but Ethier isn’t a left handed power bat. On average he hits 21 home runs each year.

They have Kalish. They don’t need Ethier, a left handed bat in a left handed heavy line up. Makes no sense.

3 years 9 months ago

Please, no Carlos Beltran! J.D. Drew 2.0. Overpriced, injury prone and frustrating. Youk needs time at DH. Sign Willingham and Cuddyer so there’s some right-handed bats and position flexibility and spend money on starting and relief pitching. Love Papi, but the days of $12 million DHs are long gone.

commenter3346
3 years 9 months ago

Doubt they’d sign both Willingham AND Cuddyer. 

NYPOTENCE
3 years 9 months ago

Ortiz still has a couple of good years left in him, I say sign him to a 2yr/24 million dollar deal and find a nice outfielder. Then they could go after a Quentin or a Sizemore. Red Sox still have a great team with a strong rotation and are overly criticized for their few gaps. Their worst case scenario is not having a “closer”, are you kidding me? Bring in Bard and take flyers on guys like Zumaya, Wuertz, and Aardsma.

rsoxbob
3 years 9 months ago

Papi was paid $12.5MM in 2011, a very difficult decision for the Sox to make (Epstein appeared to be over-ruled by Henry in picking up that option). I think it’s dangerous to offer arbitration, because I think he might actually accept (since the DH market is poor), and the result could actually produce a RAISE from that bloated figure (imagine the $15MM+ numbers some of the posters here have discussed!). I would not offer arb, but a 1-year deal at $10MM with a fairly easy-to-reach appearance-based option at $8-9MM, and if he doesn’t accept that above-market offer, move on to the younger Cuddyear or other options.

jmcbosox
3 years 9 months ago

there is a benefit to ortiz accepting arbitration and that is the redsox getting the one year deal they want.  granted it will be at a steep price, but it will buy time for lavarnway possibly to develop 1 more year and will save 5-7MM over a 2 year period,  1/15MM or 2/20-22MM.

Guest
3 years 9 months ago

I love being a NL fan and not having to think about my team paying 1-12 million a season on a DH!

jmcbosox
3 years 9 months ago

i love being an AL fan and not having to think about my ace getting plunked on the elbow.

3 years 9 months ago

IMHO, Cherington’s priorities are: #1-A, re-sign (NOT RESIGN) David Ortiz a.s.a.p. #1-B, get a new manager; #3, trade Beckett, the ring leader of the “Three Amigos” and the other malcontents, for another effective starter; #4 go out and get 2 more effective starters Harang and Buehrle would be okay; #5 Sign Madson as our new closer (Bard is simply not ready); #6 keep Bard (after he’s pitched winter ball somewhere to get rid of the kinks in is mechanics that cause his maddening  inconsistencies), Aceves, Morales, and upgrade the other three bull pen slots.
Right Field is not a priority. We have the guns to handle right field and they do not include Darnell McDonald, sad to say.
Oh, and throw a going-away party for Papelbon, Varitek, J.D., Wakes, Bedard, Conor Jackson, Wheeler. and Miller. Could be held in an old-fashioned phone booth.

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

as a Jays fan, I was kind of liking the “resign” Ortiz option

Jim McGrath
3 years 9 months ago

Another option–TRADE YOUK –We need to determine if Youk is more valuable than Papi.
We are really heavy lefthanded without Youk.
Does Youk offer better protection for AGon than Papi?
Could Youk put up Papi numbers if all he did was DH?
Youk does offer back-up protection at 1 b and 3 b when we play in NL parks also.

Is this all business or sentiment? If it’s business like Papelbon–you let Papi walk whether you get a draft pick or not. Thanks for all these great years but we are going in a different direction with the DH position. AND the  same with YOUK–we have a 1 b and we don’t think you can play 140 games at 3 b and be productive–we are going in a different direction. We are searching for a trade–where would you like to play next season–we will do our best.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

I think that exploring the trade market for Youk is a worthwhile idea.  However, as you correctly point out, without Youk in the lineup, the lineup becomes too lefty-heavy. Furthermore, it would be very hard for the Sox to lose both Youk and Ortiz from the lineup in the same off-season.  Lavarnway is arguably ready to replace Ortiz at DH, but Middlebrook is about a year away from being MLB ready at 3B.

JoeSeadog
3 years 9 months ago

DH only guys that are worth their keep are few and far between . Papi has been a good one, but I think one more year is one more too long. He’s been on the verge of breaking down before and then bounced back nicely in 2011.  Signing a good OF and using the dh to rest older players is the way to go. It WOULD be hard to see David in another uni, though.

Crucisnh
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t consider Ortiz incapable of playing 1B, Joe.  However, with the acquisition of A-Gon (who is a better offensive player than Ortiz), it becomes very undesirable to put Ortiz at 1B and take A-Gon out of the lineup for IL games, unless it’s to rest A-Gon.  That’s a serious downside when your DH’s secondary position happens to be the same as your best offensive position player.

Stonehands
3 years 9 months ago

Trade with CHW for Danks and Quentin…cheaper. saves pitching staff and RF, and we can still sign Ortiz, depending on the package, the only risk is which prospects do they want and do they want Youk?