WEDNESDAY, 11:30am: The Red Sox are still showing interest in Floyd, tweets Morosi.
TUESDAY, 9:15am: We haven't heard a ton about righty Gavin Floyd lately, but the White Sox are still listening on the soon-to-be 29-year-old, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. White Sox GM Kenny Williams has traded Carlos Quentin, Sergio Santos, and Jason Frasor this winter, but he's held onto his starting pitching and even extended John Danks.
This winter top young starters Michael Pineda, Mat Latos, Gio Gonzalez, and Trevor Cahill have been traded, but all came with at least four years of team control. Floyd and crosstown hurler Matt Garza are in the next tier along with Jair Jurrjens, with two years of control at higher prices. Two years of Floyd will cost $16.5MM in salary plus prospects. Floyd is capable of 30 starts and a sub-4.00 ERA, so he's still plenty valuable and may represent a more reasonable commitment than a four-year deal for Edwin Jackson. The Yankees figure to be done rotation shopping, but the Red Sox, Blue Jays, and Pirates are potential fits in my opinion.
Little to late for this off season Kenny and way to early
For dead line talk. Kenny truly doesn’t know what he is doing.
This is one of those times Kenny has to ask himself himself ” what exactly is the plan”.
Floyd could net the White Sox some good, young talent if the Sox are “retooling”.
Most teams are either committed to winning the World Series this year, or rebuilding for the future.
Kenny, the genius, is way smarter than everyone else. He is going to do both at the same time, while slashing payroll as a little bonus.
they brought down the payroll and are setting themselves up for retooling (w/ the Danks signing). I think if they really could get ‘good young talent’ then you would see more moves. But they probably cannot get a whole lot more.
Once the season starts, Floyd’s $9.5mil team option loses value to key trading partners. As of now, opting out of it and making a qualifying offer can yield a team draft picks. Blue Jays, Red Sox, and I imagine Cubs with Epstein in place value this type of asset. You might even include Tampa Rays.
So you’re saying Floyd isn’t worth $9.5MM option to the team trading for him, but they will offer him over $12MM to get the draft pick? Interesting
Not saying for all teams….just for certain teams. When examining certain teams (Tampa Boston Toronto etc), it is very clear draft pick yield plays a large part in player acquisition. The player serves more of a place holder for the year who yields draft picks when the season is over. The team views the high salary as the price for getting the draft picks.
My expectation of the Blue Jays is Anthopoulos will try to acquire a SP one or two years away from free agency who will opt for free agency which yields a first and supplemental pick over arbitration. That is also the value of Colby Rasmus who is two years away from free agency. I doubt AA extends unless Rasmus agrees to team options favourable to Toronto.
Red Sox appear to be in a similar mode. They are not working hard to resign David Ortiz. If he wants to remain a Red Sox, he will have to do it with non-guaranteed one year contracts awarded through the arbitration process. To get a guaranteed and/or multi-year contract, he will have to find it from another team through free agency. The Red Sox gain draft picks through this scenario if they give him a qualifying arbitration offer.
Not saying for all teams….just for certain teams. When examining certain teams (Tampa Boston Toronto etc), it is very clear draft pick yield plays a large part in player acquisition. The player serves more of a place holder for the year who yields draft picks when the season is over. The team views the high salary as the price for getting the draft picks.
My expectation of the Blue Jays is Anthopoulos will try to acquire a SP one or two years away from free agency who will opt for free agency which yields a first and supplemental pick over arbitration. That is also the value of Colby Rasmus who is two years away from free agency. I doubt AA extends unless Rasmus agrees to team options favourable to Toronto.
Red Sox appear to be in a similar mode. They are not working hard to resign David Ortiz. If he wants to remain a Red Sox, he will have to do it with non-guaranteed one year contracts awarded through the arbitration process. To get a guaranteed and/or multi-year contract, he will have to find it from another team through free agency. The Red Sox gain draft picks through this scenario if they give him a qualifying arbitration offer.
But you’re saying a team would be willing to give up prospects for Floyd, to have him for one year, so they can get a draft pick? All that does is delay the re-building process. I think you are underestimating what Floyd would cost(in terms of prospects). It would cost more than the value of a first round pick.
Tampa did it with Rafael Soriano. You can expect this type of deal to be to limited to teams with a very strong farm system and a strategy of feeding it every year with draft picks.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Cubs adopt this approach with Epstein on board. When with Boston, Epstein converted several players (Beltre…Bay…etc) into draft picks. It was the reason acquiring Gonzalez was not a terrible risk. If he did not extend, Boston would have received picks.
Beltre was a free-agent. Theo didn’t have to give up prospects to bring him in. Much different scenario.
Bay was acquired for a championship run. I don’t believe for one second Theo made that trade worried about a draft pick he may get down the road. Boston was still interested in Bay, but the Mets overpaid.
I understand what you are saying, it just doesn’t make since with Floyd unless you are a team ready to compete. It is pointless to give up a good prospect(s) JUST to get a draft pick a year and half later.
Fair enough…time will tell.
But, keep in mind, most AL East teams seem to find a way to get extra draft picks. In 2010 draft, 61 of the high school players on Baseball America Top 200 Draft prospect list were signed. 19 of them were signed by Yanks Red Sox Jays & Rays.
I am convinced they are executing a strategy that brings this result.
I agree that they are(were?) good at gathering the extra draft picks.
Red Sox: Theo was always good about letting his type A walk and signing another Type A. Thus, gaining a draft pick.
The Jays mastered the art of taking advantage of the relief market. Getting extra picks out of solid relievers that shouldn’t have been getting anyone picks. Can’t do that anymore.
Rays: Well they are always loaded with talent and some of it leaves every year.
Yanks: Really don’t know why they would have so many extra picks. Cashman is a great GM though and I’m sure he has some way.
The 4 teams you mentioned all have great GM’s and now they’re just going to have to find new ways to take advantage of the new CBA. They will, it will just take time.
yep…it will be interesting to see how they work the new CBA. Do you have any ideas on it?
Draft good players? haha No I really don’t have any idea. I’m not even completely sure how it all works, honestly.
and I was never arguing that teams acquire players to eventually get draft picks. Trading for Floyd just doesn’t seem like one of those times it would make sense.
Yes, I am probably over reaching with my speculation. But, I am sure we will be surprised by some new approach.
Agreed. Qualifying offer would have been $12,532,063.33 for this offseason.
No doubt it will be higher than that in the future.
Keep in mind, when done through arbitration, the contract is only one year and not guaranteed.
Many players will opt for less if it is guaranteed with multi-year terms. But, of course, not dramatically less.
It’s not through arbitration anymore. You have to make at LEAST a one-year qualifying offer. Under the new CBA you no longer offer free-agents arbitration.
Ahhh….thanks….
Gavin Floyd, Jair Jurrjens, Matt Garza…all with 2 years of control left (before FA). Where do they rank?
Garza, Jurrgens, Floyd
Garza, Floyd, Jurrjens
I’m sorry, but Gavin Floyd ahead of Jurrjens? I might agree with that ONLY if you’d consider that based on Kenny Williams’ statements and the fact that he’s gotten taken by recent trades that he wouldn’t want as much as CHC/ATL.
or if you look beyond ERA
Garza, Jurrjens…………………………………………………Floyd.
yeah…
fWAR in the last four years:
Jair Jurrjens – 10.3
Matt Garza – 12.6
Gavin Floyd – 14.9
Who cares along as the Red Sox get 1 of them.
Can Garza go ahead and be in a different tier than Floyd?
Agreed. Garza is at least as good of a pitcher as Latos. He’s far better than Floyd or Jurrjens.
Orioles are a perfect fit. He grew up near Baltimore and the O’s have wanted him for a long time. How the O’s aren’t mentioned in this piece is beyond me, especially considering the trade rumors from the Winter Meetings.
Figured the rotation would not be the focus given the Wada and Chen additions.
Makes sense, but if I’m Duquette, I’m still not comfortable with an AL East rotation consisting of 2 unproven NPB guys, Guthrie, and Britton/Arrieta/Hunter. O’s need all the pitching they can stand to acquire.
Floyd would be an acceptable # 2 to me. In fact it would be more than acceptable. Also, the Orioles should also get into a bidding war for Oswalt and win! I don’t care what the cost is! If Duquette can’t get something done and soon, Duquette should be busted down from GM to making sure that there’s an equal amount of slices of pepperoni on every pizza served at Camden Yards
in order to have a bidding war, you gotta have contracts offered to him. i think the orioles would be the only one to offer. and you should care about the price offered because he is an injury risk. and that is what teams are looking at and prob believe 8 million for 1 year is to much for a guy whos chances of being on the DL is greater then dwight howard going to the clippers
I think Oswalt is just being really picky about where he will pitch. Look at the money that pitchers like Ben Sheets, Rich Harden, Brandon Webb, etc. have got the last few years. Oswalt is a much better bet to make an impact than any of those guys were. He’ll easily get his $8MM
Calm down lefty. It’s gonna be ok.
Cherington sweet Jesus get it done.
This is really who the Red Sox should be after if Floyd is really available. Oswalt is a risk — having three guys with in the rotation with past back issues — Aceves, Oswalt and Buchholz is probably not a great idea. I’m sure they’re all fine, but that’s a role of the dice.
It probably wouldn’t take too much for the Sox to get Floyd either. Maybe 1 decent prospect like Ranundo and a lower level piece. 2 for 1.
And let’s face it, at least Floyd has experience in the AL, whereas, if I remember correctly, Oswalt has never pitched.
Man, I sure hope so.
I would take Oswalt with the injury risk, non AL experience and any other issue people can throw out there with him over another Jackson clone who just throws 180-200IP of #3-4 innings eating type performance.
Oswalt on a 1 year deal would take less and then next year go after one of the guys who are far better than both, not to mention Oswalt has a chance to at least give you #2 type stuff that there is -0- chance Floyd will and Williams is thinking he will get top prospects back in trade to boot.
The DH issue is over inflated in comparison to what type of park they pitched in. When Gavin Floyd was with the Phils he was even more wildly inconsistent than he is now.
Floyd who will be 29 soon, will only be had in an Oakland A’s kinda trade. the sox will still want alot of prospects for their top two pitchers in danks and floyd. redsox really have that many prospects left to give up? if they do this, they really are taking a page out of the yankees book, and doing exactly what they have been doing the last 10 years. now thata would be funny
if they do this, they really are taking a page out of the yankees book, and doing exactly what they have been doing the last 10 years. now thata would be funny——
What have they been doing the last 10 years? Winning an avg of about 96 games a year? haha. jk
It probably will take less to obtain Floyd than a Gio, Latos type trade due to his salary is a bit higher and he is only under contract for 2 years. An offer like Stolmy and Bowden and/or maybe Lars Anderson might get it done.
keep in mind, danks was only under contract for one more year before his extension and they were still asking for alot of prospects in return. so i dont think contract length means anything as the whitesox GM is over valuing his starting pitching. im not saying Floyd or danks are bad pitchers. but their not worth what the sox are asking for. in the redsox, yankees, tigers, phillies rotation those guys would be 3 or 4 in the rotation type guys. I guess if it were the rangers or indians, teams like that maybe those two guys would be a number 1 or 2 type pitcher. but clearly not worth the ammount of prospects they want in return
I agree with your assessment. But on the other hand, I don’t blame the Sox for wanting a healthy return. Danks and Floyd are now their two best pitchers, and the only ones likely to throw 180 innings. Trade either one, and you immediately have to go find a replacement. So, if I’m Kenny W, you have to blow me away to make it happen.
Pimental or Bowden + Lars is the biggest lowball offer I’ve ever heard. If Red Sox are interested in Floyd they’ll probably have to part with Ranaudo.
I agree that Oswalt will be at risk and at best a #4/5 starter if we are lucky. The last thing the Sox need is a aging arm that will go 5 and a 1/3 innings and have a ERA of 4.5 or higher. As for Floyd, he may be a safer bet with his experience. His ERA worries me though. Again, if you have a 4.5 ERA in the Central, that translates to a 5 or higher in the East!
1. Garza
2. Flyod
3. JJ
Floyd is more established, while JJ probably has the higher upside IMO.
Tried to edit Floyd, Dis-crap failing as usual….
I wonder what Kenny is looking for? Floyd’s value can’t be as high as some of the other arms that have been delt this winter. Maybe a top 100 guy and some spare parts.
it would take much more than that. they have no need to trade him so it would take an oversized return.
Well the White Sox gave up Santos for nothing. So, therefore logically, why should the Orioles overpay for him. I would give fair value and nothing more. If Mr. Williams doesn’t like it, then Duquette continues the search for a #2. I would even call up the Mets and ask for Johan Sanata’s medical records to see what is happening there as well.
A top 50 SP prospect for a closer is nothing? I guess I am missing something.
A top 50 SP prospect for a closer is nothing? I guess I am missing something.
A top 50 SP prospect for a closer is nothing? I guess I am missing something.
Not unless we get David Wright as part of the trade 😉 We take Santanna off the Wilpon’s books and they owe us big 😉
The Red Sox are cash poor. So unless John Henry wants to “belly up to the bar” and “pay for a round for the house” I think you can scratch them of the list even though they maybe fits.
Kenny is always listening – so are the other 29 GMs – Floyd will be with Sox.
Rotation better than people think. Sale and Reed are studs. Damm Peavy is the problem. 16M for a #5 starter
Yes. Peavy is the problem. Those unproven youngsters are locks though.
Think he was speaking more towards the earnings, though cannot be sure.
Not another Kenny Williams and Alex A trade…
Jays are done. AA has already taken the heat for not doing anything, what does he have to gain now? Hoping not to see a Snider and/or D’Arnaud for Floyd deal.
If Kenny can fetch Marisnick and Hutchison from Jays for Floyd,then make trade.
Doubt he gets that deal from AA
If Kenny can fetch OF Jake Marisnick and P Steve Hutchhison,then he should.stay away from Drabek
“Floyd is capable of 30 starts and a sub-4.00 ERA, so he’s still plenty valuable”
yeah, a combination hes only done once (2008)
So he’s capable of doing it…
I doubt the Red Sox could get a deal done. They have no pitching prospects. The only way I see a deal happening is if they do a package with Middlebrooks and Bard.
Alex Wilson is basically major league ready, he’s a solid pitching prospect.
No. Bard wouldn’t be included. Middlebrooks has become one of the Sox better prospects really by default since they don’t have many other top tier options. That said, Anthony Ranundo and a complimentary piece, like Lavarnway should do it. Iglesias is completely off all lists as top prospect, so perhaps he’s an option along with one of the other mentioned names. Net result, the Red Sox aren’t losing any high ceiling talent if they made this trade. My feeling is Bryce Brentz will be their top prospect this coming year.
Lavarnway would not be a complimentary piece, luis exposito would be a complimentary piece
Middlebrooks AND Bard? uh, no thanks
I can’t see the Sox moving Floyd unless they get blown away (which I don’t see anybody doing). If they trade Floyd, then Danks is the only guy in the rotation who is a good bet to do even 175 innings. So then you have to go out and sign somebody else, probably at least $4MM or $5MM, when you are only paying Floyd $7MM this season. It makes no sense, unless again some GM is jonesing bad enough for him that they give away the farm.
They’d be much better off signing Jackson or Oswald, the reality is that Floyd just isn’t that good.
he is more consistent than jackson ad will be cheaper in the long haul even if the bosox extend him…jackson is looking for 4 years at 12+ a pop with full NTC i bet where as floyd would sign probably for 9 a pop. As for oswalT!!!!! he is just about done. Floyd is younger and is way less injury prone thus a better option.
True, if you eliminate the fact that they would have to trade young player(s) for him, which they wouldn’t have to do with Jackson.
but why you have to commit to jackson year and money you dont need to right now with gavin considering he has a decent option for 2013…jackson is going to want minimum 10 mill per and at least 3 years with at minimum a partial NTC to at least half the teams(yes these are guesses but considering he has been traded like 6 times already he would probably want that)
Have you ever watched Gavin pitch? He has one of the nastiest curveballs in the game, and when he’s locked in, is dominant.
thats what i love and hate about gavin…im obviously a sox fan but I try to be as non biased as possible..he has a good fastball and a above average change up..and when he curve ball is working he is unhittable..
The Red Sox should make a move to get Floyd Pepper instead. He’s the bass player for the Electric Mayhem Band on The Muppet Show.
ur ignorant
Me no ignorant. Just issue with disambiguation.
GAVIN FLOYD SUCKKKKS!!!!!!!!!!! i would take acevas any day over floyd
2008-2.4 WAR 2009-4.5 WAR 2010-4.3 WAR 2011-3.6 WAR acevas has only ever pitching over 100 innings once including minor leagues and was only a 1.1 WAR pitcher last year…gavin hardly sucks and no one would take acevas over gavin…well someone who truly had no more money in the budget but its the red sox they just like the yankees print money
Trade for Floyd and then ship Lackey over to the Cubs. That or get Byrd. If Theo wanted Lackey so badly to pay him $186mil for 7 years, then he should take him with him to Chicago. If that is too much of a stretch, then trade Jenks for Byrd. I do not like a starting outfield of McDonald, Ellsbury, Sweeney to start the year AT ALL.
If I’m the White Sox, I’d take Lackey if you take Alex Rios. Throw in a high schooler and I’m happy.
sweet deal for both teams if you ask me…the bosox lose money and years and get a right fielder out of the deal if sweeney and kalish dont work out(sweeney wont considering he is a 4th outfielder and always was, even on the A’s he was a 4th ofer…the sox get someone who wont pitch now yes that sucks but can take over peavys spot when his contract is up next season and the sox only have to pay 500K in 2015? or 16 i dont know when his contract end….the redsox might have to throw a bit of cash the whitesox way but it could be a good trade for both teams
Why would anyone in their right mind take Bobby Jenks? He is completely done. He wasn’t very good in his final year with the Sox, and combine that with his performance with Boston and you should see my reasoning.
Why would anyone in their right mind take Bobby Jenks? He is completely done. He wasn’t very good in his final year with the Sox, and combine that with his performance with Boston and you should see my reasoning.
About now I’m really missing Erik Bedard and/or Justin Masterson. We let them get away.
Um..those were two VERY different scenarios when we let each of those pitchers “get away” and I don’t think either one was a mistake.
I just do not see the Sox giving up Gavin. If they do, its going to take a deal from Boston that blows the Sox away. With Victor Martinez out, the division became much more competitive. If Dunn returns to form (I think he will) and Rios plays better than the White Sox have a good shot at winning. Floyd is an established pitcher who almost always has an unbelievable month. He was the AL pitcher of the month last July.
Floyd and Rios for Brett Gardner.
i wouldnt necesarilly say their not ready to compete. the last couple of years they have started the season out great, then around june they fall apart until september then thats when they pick it back up. but if im not mistaken wasnt it their bullpen that blew games last year? yeah their starters werent great but they werent bad either. but thats been pretty much their weakness is their pitching. they get a good SP and a couple RP and STOP TRADING them every trade deadline then thye might be a decent team again. maybe new ownership? new GM?
“around june”
the end of april*
The O’s starting staff has the worst FIP in baseball (among all 30 teams) @ 4.91. They are nowhere near ready to compete.
“i wouldnt necesarilly say their not ready to compete.”
I would. In fact, I would bet everything in the world on that — and sleep like a baby at night.
A new manager, GM, or ownership would do absolutely nothing about their chances of winning in the short term. Sorry to lay it down hard but I don’t agree with the unfounded belief that maybe if we just change this one thing that has no direct improvement to on field success, that it would give the O’s a chance to compete.
They don’t need the manager, GM, ownership change as much as they need a full roster change. They need better players. This isn’t a contending team that might be misguided or unlucky (the Red Sox), this is a team that is just not good enough.
They need to get a better roster. To do that, they need to devote years to rebuilding. In the meantime, they are the LEAST ready to compete team in baseball. If you call the O’s a contender, then every other team in baseball must be a playoff team too.
Unfortunately, there is just no way they can get past the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays. Sometimes, you just have to call it like it is and not dance around a subject. After years of good drafts and trades, then maybe they’ll be ready but certainly not now.
I would say it . And as a life long O’s fan . Just for fun , I thought of all the players the Orioles would have to sign this year to compete with the Yankees . Here goes :
Pujols 1b
Fielder DH
Papelbon Closer
Oswalt SP
CJ Wilson SP
Mark Buherle SP
Throw in a trade for Ty Wiggington for infield depth in case Brian Roberts can’t go . And there you have it should cost just under a Billion dollars to return the O’s to respectability .
Then I realized the premium those players would want to sign here ( Yikes) . Then I figured the unpaid balance on the contracts would exceed the teams debt / equity limits and the Commissioners office would step in.
In short Angelos has destroyed the value of the franchise after decades of mismanagement . A quick fix is not possible but to see the O’s trying to seize every opportunity to improve . To see some sign they are as fed up with loosing as we are . That would be the best O’s fans can hope for.
A trade for Floyd would be a great start in that direction. But only a start . Come on Duqutte , make it happen.
having the most strikeouts on the team you play for is far much better then having more strikeouts then most of the league? dont get me wrong i dont think floyd is bad, but he just isnt worth what the whitesox are asking for. none of their pitchers are. they would have to throw in someone else maybe like Sale or thorton. just to even keep a conversation going on a deal.
and what are they asking for him?
Why would they have to throw in, or have interest in throwing in Sale, one of their top young arms, and under control for quite some time? Maybe this “thorton”, though I can’t find him on the roster. Think he used to have a neckbeard until moving on to Denver
Well what are the White Sox asking for? I do not see that they are asking for anybody or everybody. Gavin Floyd improves Boston’s team. If the asking price is too high then obviously things will not work out. If you are in the know of prospects the Sox are looking for please share them with us.
Sad but true
Amen . But new ownership is probably called for . Even if we draft and develop good players , we can’t resign them becuase the pitchers will want more than 3 years or some other sacred Angelos rule would be violated.
The Orioles can’t even compete with the Nationals who 35 miles down I-95 are building a winner because they are trying. And they will spend money when neccessary.
Angelos has lost intrest in the team . After all those loosing seasons , the farm system should be stocked with talent because of drafting high picks. The fact that it is not , is the result of incompetence and a refusal to spend .
Sadly a new owner would have to pay such a large price , that they may not be able to afford top talent.