Quick Hits: Oviedo, Ransom, Greinke, Boras

Andy Pettitte's last game before his retirement was in Game 3 of the 2010 ALCS against the Rangers, featuring Jeff Francoeur.  Pettitte allowed two runs over seven innings in that game and tonight, Francoeur got another look at him, this time as a member of the RoyalsDanny Knobler of CBSSports.com asked him if he looked just as sharp this time around as once again allowed two runs over seven innings of work.  "Absolutely," Francoeur said. "He looks good. I thought he would."  Tonight's links..


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28 Comments on "Quick Hits: Oviedo, Ransom, Greinke, Boras"


3 years 3 months ago

yankees will go after one of the 3 pitchers if Kuroda and Nova dont turn it around. Hughes is finally coming around, Pettitte is getting back into the swing of things and CC well besides his 7th inning melt down against cinci has been pretty good since his butt whoopin he got from tampa the first game of the season. I can see greinke or Wandy being in ny by july 31st.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

They supposedly didn’t believe Greinke could “handle” pitching in NY last time they could have traded for him; assuming that’s true they wont likely be any more comfortable trading for him this time around, which would make Wandy or Dempster the more likely choices (of those three at least), but neither one is anywhere near the pitcher Greinke is.

Yankees5900
3 years 3 months ago

Wandy has been great this season

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

I know, I never meant to imply that he wasn’t a good pitcher, just that he’s nowhere near Zack Greinke good (and he’s also not nearly as good as he’s looked so far this year).

101andCounting
3 years 3 months ago

So has Dempster. He’s 0-2 in 7 starts so far because the Cubs can’t give him any run support, but he’s got a 2.28 ERA and a 1.05 WHIP. He’s limiting both his hits and walks and striking out nearly a batter per inning. It’s been good having him on the team.

Double_Up
3 years 3 months ago

If the Yanks want a solid pitcher, who would they give up in the minors?

Havok9120
3 years 3 months ago

 Depends on what pitcher we’re talking about. We’ve got 2 MLB ready 4/5s, 1 very good SP prospect, and 1 lottery ticket who, at the very least, will be a fireballing reliever. The rest of our farm system is thin outside of Low A.

I don’t think we have any guys the organization considers untouchable if the right deal came along. Montero wasn’t even in that category, and that was back when many still thought his glove would come around.

hawkny1
3 years 3 months ago

Here is a deal to chew on….

Youkilis, Aviles and Bard to Milwaukee
Hart, Greinke and a prospect to the Red Sox

Vmmercan
3 years 3 months ago

An injury prone guy in a walk year, a super utility man and a reliever for an ace caliber starter and solid position player, plus a prospect? No thanks.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Not that I disagree with you actual answer (I don’t like that trade for either team), but Youkilis has a year and a half of team control left and while Bard is having a hard time adjusting to a starting role, he is a starting pitcher for all intents and purposes, and he has a ton of potential there if he does figure it out (so it’s not like you’d be getting a reliever, you’d be getting a guy whose potential ranges from a #2 starter at best, to a high leverage reliever at worst).

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

I still don’t get why everyone is so excited to dump Youkilis.  He is very likely still a better player than Middlebrooks, at least for the short term, and 3B is a really shallow position for the Sox (as far as MLB ready guys go anyway, it’s actually really deep overall).  If they trade Youkilis and something happens to Middlebrooks their options are either to play Punto every day, or to move Aviles to 3B and call up either Iglesias or Ciriaco (neither of whom offers much as far as offense goes).

dc21892
3 years 3 months ago

I agree. Middlebrooks is lighting it up now but how we he handle his first slump? When he really starts to play bad, can he mentally handle it at the majors? We don’t know that yet, and worse case scenario we have Youkilis – who IMO is still an above average player and if healthy can be very productive – fill in. Now I’m not saying I expect the old Youkilis to show up and give .300/25/100. All he has to do is get timely hits, get on base and most importantly ease Middlebrooks into what looks like will be his guaranteed starting job for now, if not undoubtedly by ST next season.

dc21892
3 years 3 months ago

Really not a good idea. Aviles has played well. Sure he slumps from time to time but if they have a guy holding it down at SS then you keep him. They have gone through way too many since Nomars departure.

dc21892
3 years 3 months ago

Too add to that… Can’t edit on my phone, but Bard has the potential to be at best probably a number 2 or a closer. Worst case he loses all confidence and totally falls out of MLB but I don’t think that’s going to be the case with him. He’s too good to give up for either of those guys.

daveineg
3 years 3 months ago

 Brewers would never make that deal.  Brewers have zero interest in Youkilis Hart’s under contract through next year, and he can play 1B.

Now Bard and Aviles for Greinke?  That makes some sense.  But Red Sox are in about as much trouble as Brewers so both teams could be sellers.

notsureifsrs
3 years 3 months ago

when do the brewers get ellsbury and crawford back

AaronAngst
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah, I think the Brewers would be looking for prospects in any potential Greinke deal, not a couple of guys in their early 30’s, and a pitcher that hasn’t proven himself to be a reliable starter. The Brewers need a young SS that profiles to be a solid ML player, and a 1B in that same category – you’re not including either.

hawkny1
3 years 3 months ago

In Greinke, the Red Sox would get a 3rd or 4th starter, aged 28, cable of pitching more than 200 innings and holding the opposition to under 3.5 runs per complete game.  He would be a rental but someone worth re-signing for another 3-4 years

In Hart, aged 30, the Red Sox are looking at a .280-30-100 offensive threat who has played RF since joining the Brewers 6 or7 years ago.

Both of these guys can solve roster problems that have troubled the Red Sox since they went out and signed John Lackey.  They have looked for a reliable, effective middle of the rotation starter.  Likewise, they have searched for someone to play RF against all kinds of pitching who can hit consistently with power, in the mold of a Trot Nixon or Dewey Evans, etc..  I, for one, thought they had their man in Reddick but Epstein, Cherington, etc.  thought otherwise. They traded him for a closer who is injury prone and whom they do not now need with Aceves serving as closer..   BTW, Reddick will probably represent Oakland at this year’s all-star game.

Whether Youk is healthy or not, is not necessarily the question.  He is a better 1st baseman than a 3B at this stage in his career.  He has had two sub-par (for him) seasons in a row. He is not worth $14M/yr. as a utility bat, at age 34.  So, perhaps a change of scenery would revitalize him, preferably in the NL.

As for Bard he still is a project.  He looked solid as the 8th inning set up guy for several years but did not close effectively when given the chance.  His outings thus far as a starter have rotated between so so and erratic.  Wildness and a habit of thinking too much on the mound make me wonder about the wisdom that went into putting him in the starting rotation during ST simply because he wanted to make big money.  Ask yourself this question, could Bard ever rise to the level of a Zack Greinki as a starter?  Second question…. If he ultimately fails as a starter do they really need him back in the bullpen with the group they have now?   

The Brewers need a 1B badly and their prospects of re-signing Greinke diminish more every day.  He wants out of beer barrel city it would seem.  Bard as a consolation prize for losing Zack might be the best they could hope for.

daveineg
3 years 3 months ago

 Greinke has given no indication he wants out of Milwaukee.  He’s said repeatedly he likes it there.  You say he’s a 3 or 4 starter??  He’s looks at himself as an ace, and so far this year, he’s pitched like one.  No way he re-signs for 3-4 years.  He’s looking at big, big money for 5-6 years.  That’s why the Brewers haven’t been able to lock him up.

Brewers haven’t yet thrown in the towel.  The division is very, very weak and a hot streak would get them right back in it.  Speaking of that, Dave Bush  is a name that just might fit their needs.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah, completely missed that part.  Greinke would, in all likelihood, be the best pitcher on the team in Boston; even if/when Lester figures out what’s been plaguing him, and assuming good Beckett keeps showing up, Greinke is as good as either of them at least.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 Fail to see how grienke would be as good as Lester. Prior to the season and pretty much the Lester this season, except for starts #2-4.

Lets maybe hold off on thinking of allowing Shaugnessy & Co to throw their normal barrage of useless type space at a SP they could use (granted) but may not be able to deal with the media 2nd worst to only NY and the huge cost of acquisition.

I also doubt Grienke would have any thoughts of staying either. He is smart enough to know what the media relationship is all about and stay far away.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

I don’t say that because I think less of Lester than I used to, I still think he’s as good as he has been in the past – simply struggling right now, it’s because I think that highly of Greinke.

Since ’08:

ERA: 3.32 ZG  –  3.37 JL

FIP: 2.95 ZG  –  3.45 JL

xFIP: 3.21 ZG  –  3.52 JL

K/9: 8.86 ZG  –  8.49 JL

BB/9: 2.24 ZG  –  3.17 JL

SIERA: 3.25 ZG  –  3.57 JL

FIP-: 71 ZG  –  78 JL

And Greinke has thrown 10 more innings in two fewer starts, so he goes deeper into games.  So while they are relatively close, Greinke edges out Lester in every single category.

As far as him staying – maybe, maybe not.  He seems to have overcome that to some extent recently, and from what (admittedly little) I know about it I’m pretty sure he always got along well with McClure, so it’s possible that that could help sway him.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 Now the McClure angle had not thought of and is an interesting point.

Could he help? Couldn’t hurt. For that matter? Could Anibel Sanchez help and I think the cost of acquisition for him would be less and signing him to an extension less as well.

Not sure the Fish will go into selling mode as fast, if even at all, but IMO Sanchez would do a fine job in Boston and was the FA SP was hoping Boston would target (if they do any) regardless.

Appreciate you taking the time to show those stats. I have to ask.. Lester and beckett may not be true #1SP then in name only, but they are top notch #2-3. Why not look to add another after the season (possibly Sanchez, see if Grienke is amiable to Boston) and go with the lousy deal they have been dealt this year with the massive injuries as far as not giving up the top prospects for a patch.. Unless they have a window to sign that “patch” to a LT extension?

This team, with the inordinate amount of injuries is set for a 1st, maybe 2nd round exit in the play offs. Cannot see how giving up (just throwing names) Iglesias, Ranaudo, Lavarnway as just examples for making a quick entry/exit is worthy of the cost, especially so being handcuffed by the new CBA bonuses allotted.

Now.. If they can manage to move from a position of what appears to be a strength and acquire pitching.. BP, corner IF, SS.. Then possibly go for it.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah, I think Anibal would be a reasonable target in the off-season, but there’s no way the Marlins trade anyone mid-season after spending the way they did during the past off-season.  They almost have to appear to be going for it all the way to the end this year, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they just let Sanchez walk at the end of the year, and people seem to take him a bit for granted, so he may come cheap (relative to the performance you could get out of him) in the coming off-season.

I would say that, in scouting terms at least, Lester and Beckett are both #2 pitchers.  I don’t know if you follow Kevin Goldstein at all, but he explained really well what the term “#1 pitcher” really means in scouting terms.

To be a #1 a guy has to have plus command and control with 2-3 plus to plus-plus pitches, and consistently perform, and always go deep into games; it’s the guys who are without a doubt in the Cy Young conversation before the season even starts; the Verlanders, Halladays, and Lees of the world; guys who you know exactly what you’re going to get from them because they are dominant every time out and they have been consistently for multiple years – basically the best of the best; there might only be 5-10 of these guys in the entire game.

#2s are guys who are usually those pitchers, but might be prone to a bad outing on occasion, or maybe they aren’t always as efficient with their pitch counts, so they don’t always go as deep into games.

#3s are guys who can give you flashes of #1 dominance, but you never know when it’s going to show up; guys who are very, very good pitchers, but aren’t as consistent; maybe they only have one plus pitch, or their command is spotty on occasion, so when it’s on they can dominate, and when it’s off they can still get outs, but might walk too many guys, and give up too many hits, and get knocked out of a game fairly early.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Greinke would be a good pick up for Boston, that much I agree with, but I don’t really see the need for someone like Hart.  Sure, right now he would help with 7 outfielders on the DL, but Crawford, Ellsbury, and Ross are all due back in July (and Kalish is supposed to start seeing game action soon), so they don’t need him long term; if they are looking for outfielders it will likely be for borderline starters who can fill in until guys start coming back.  As for Reddick, he has power, and he’s a good defensive player, but he was a hacker in the highest order.  He would strike out too much, and walk too little to be able to maintain a decent batting average and on-base percentage; plus, they have Kalish who is a much better all-around player.

Youkilis also isn’t a utility bat, he’s a very, very good hitter, and a starter on 90% of the teams in the league (including Boston).  He also hasn’t had two sub-par years in a row – 2010 was possibly the best offensive year of his career – and even the one “sub-par” (for him) year he had was as good as most people can do even in their peak years.

If Bard fails as a starter they absolutely need him in the bullpen (it’s not even a matter of if he fails, he’s likely going to end up back out there before the years is over anyway so they can keep his innings down), he’d automatically become the best reliever in the ‘pen, and it’s only a matter of time before some of those guys out there come crashing back down to earth.

melonis_rex
3 years 3 months ago

In Greinke, the Red Sox would get a 3rd or 4th starter

Zack Greinke is an ace, #2 at worst. There really isn’t much debating this. 

They traded him for a closer who is injury prone and whom they do not now need with Aceves serving as closer

I’m not trying to judge any trades, but having Aceves closing does not make Bailey redundant. More good relievers is a good thing.

AaronAngst
3 years 3 months ago

“their prospects of re-signing Greinke diminish more every day.  He wants out of beer barrel city it would seem.”

Hearsay, anyone? Greinke wants what every talented major league pitcher wants: boatloads of money. If I’m Milwaukee, I probably hold onto him until the end of the year and collect draft picks instead of trading him away for scrap parts. The thing about Zack is that he seems to be kind of a wild card. It wouldn’t surprise me if he signed a below market deal to stay in Milwaukee, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he chased every last dollar.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

Those guys listed by Rosenthal are interesting. Amezaga could help. Always liked him and he’s had a rough time since sustaining those as recall “micro fractures” in his leg a few seasons ago. He is one team 1st player who goes at the game 100% and actually has a GLOVE for every IF, not a statue as some of the utility people hanging around.. See Ty Wigginton, Billy Hall etc..

Ollie would be comical to see back in the game as a joke and so we can get in more jabs at Minaya being swindled by Boras (again) over another inept move on the list of burned money deals.

Edit:

As a footnote.. Would like to see him as Boston’s utility guy a whole lot better over Punto. Punto plays 3 positions and Amezaga can play 7. Alfredo is a terrific bunter and can “small ball” with the best of them.. Always wondered how this ex-Marlin never made it to Boston when so many of Henry’s ex Fish did and this guy always put the team 1st.