Latest On Pirates, Mark Appel

Mark Appel, the eighth overall selection of the 2012 draft, is leaning against signing with the Pirates, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter). MLB recommends a $2.9MM bonus for Appel, who was considered a potential first overall selection. 

Jim Callis of Baseball America keeps hearing the Pirates won't give up a first round pick to sign Appel (Twitter link). Pittsburgh can offer the Stanford right-hander a maximum of $3.84MM without surrendering a 2013 pick, Callis notes. If Appel were to return to school for another season he would be draft eligible following his senior year. Agent Scott Boras is advising Appel.

Just six first round selections remain unsigned with four days to go before this Friday's deadline.


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95 Comments on "Latest On Pirates, Mark Appel"


Manny Being Manny
3 years 1 month ago

Any news on Gaussman?

Smrtbusnisman04
3 years 1 month ago

Man, there’s gonna be alot of pressure on Gerrit Cole if the Pirates trade Jameson Taillon to Arizona and fail to sign Appel.

wild05fan
3 years 1 month ago

I’ve heard nothing about Taillon getting moved anywhere. What’s your source?

vtadave
3 years 1 month ago

Justin Upton trade speculation, that’s all.

3 years 1 month ago

Dbacks want mlb players and close players.  Taillon is neither.  You would be talking tabata, to replace upton, and two lefties owens/locke/or Wilson. 

Erik Johnson
3 years 1 month ago

Would do that for Upton in a second……and I’m not one of those guys that is down on Tabata

3 years 1 month ago

how about Tabata, Owens, Locke, AND Wilson?

DempseyK
3 years 1 month ago

Well, for as deep as next years draft projects to be, he will be lucky to be a top 10 pick unless he is simply 100% dominant next season and maintains exemplary health.  At that point he would be under a 2.3 Million Dollar recommended slot if he feel just to 11th overall if he is lucky.  If he is dumb enough to walk away from 3.8 million from the Bucs, so be it.  But I dont want to hear him crying when he goes 23rd overall in 2013 for a recommended slot of 1.1 Million bucks or whatever it will be.  Best of Wishes Mark!  Hopefully you aren’t paying Scott Boras too much, cause it doesnt seem as though your decision making will allow for too much profit once he is paid.  Enjoy Stanford, and remember to do well in your Senior Year academically, because god forbid you get injured, it might be your only avenue to make 100k per year, let alone a few million.

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Except next year the draft class is considered to be much weaker.

Greatone1210
3 years 1 month ago

No it’s not. It is actually much stronger. 

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

According to who? Keith Law says its not, heard others mention it as well.

jwsox
3 years 1 month ago

keith law is god!

3 years 1 month ago

Yeah I’ve heard its not very top heavy at all.  But of course a lot can change. 

DempseyK
3 years 1 month ago

Not in the top end my friend.

SixtoLezcano
3 years 1 month ago

Why are you so angry about what Mark Appel decides to do?

johnsilver
3 years 1 month ago

I hope Appel to Japanese as his language credit in college. It might come in handy.

If they still require one that is..

3 years 1 month ago

I have a feeling this slotting system is going to turn out to be a disaster…

Dave
3 years 1 month ago

Seems that’s what Boras is trying to “prove” by giving his client poor advice.    Sad thing, is that it’ll probably work and they’ll make significant adjustments blah blah blah. 

johnsilver
3 years 1 month ago

 Wouldn’t hold my breadth on that, but we will see.

The still interesting fact of the CBA, is that 3 of the top 5 teams as for how much they were allotted to spend (Houston, Twins, Cardinals) were given under the cap 2-3x as much this year as they spent last year, with no cap.. They refused to spend anyway.. Why spend now? Houston had ownership problems we know, but Cardinals and Twins?

Twins allotted: 12,368.    spent in 2011: 5,078.
Houston allotted: 11,177. spent in 2011: 4,705.
Cards allotted: 9,131.      spent in 2011: 4,055.

The biggest difference was #6 Oakland
Allotted:  8,469.             spent in 2011: 2,612.

The teams being helped are not spending, other than Houston. It is a small market, non spending to send people to college is all. Pittsburgh was already spending high and was severely hit by the new cba:

Pirates allotted: 6,563:    spent in 2011: 16,445.
Royals allotted: 6,101:     spent in 2011: 11,405.
Rays allotted: 3,871        spent in 2011: 11,309.
DBacks allotted: 3,818     spent in 2011: 11,161.

So show me how this helps small market teams??

Here are the “big spenders”

NYY allotted 4,192          spent in 2011: 4,202.
Philly allotted 4,916         spent in 2011: 3,855.
LAD allotted  5,202.         spent in 2011: 2.978.
Boston allotted 6,884.      spent in 2011: 10,048.
NYM allotted:   7,151.      spent in 2011: 5,078m
Cubs allotted:  7,933       spent in 2011:  6,559.

Some of the big markets got MORE!! Only Boston took significantly less.

Was this supposed to help anything???

 

Lunchbox45
3 years 1 month ago

the slotting system wasn’t about big spenders as much as it was about low spenders not making the proper picks based on the kids demand.

yes it helps in that teams like the red sox and jays who have taken hard to sign picks in later rounds and thrown money at them, however we saw that there was a way around it.

the slotting system doesn’t fix that, but it certainly helps.  That way teams don’t pick matt bush’s first overall for fear of what justin verlander’s will command.

johnsilver
3 years 1 month ago

 In turn it hurts low market teams that had put infrastructure together, like Toronto and Boston to exploit the system and compete.. Pittsburgh, KC and TB. They were all heavily penalized. Not the Bucs as much as they were not grabbing the low pick people you described, but the Rays and Royals were gaming the system like the Jays and Boston had been for years.

If it helps low market teams, like TB that Selig was hoisting as (this makes me choke) “poster child” to how to run a team, then he tears down the system that LETS them compete? What exactly does that say about the future of the game and the man who proclaimed it?

LazerTown
3 years 1 month ago

it does in theory prevent a player like appel proclaming that he wants $20M and falling to the big market teams.  But it makes it way harder for a team to spend big on their picks.

For Appel not to sign seems dumb to me, if he signs this year and makes it to the majors a year quicker then he will make much more in his career.  He will unlikely climb higher, and is could fall due to injury.

Amish_willy
3 years 1 month ago

I really love the fact that not only was the signing deadline moved up a month, but the high-end picks aren’t all being signed on the last day like in previous years. That seems like a nice coup for the fans as these new top prospects are going playing a lot sooner.

Agree on Appel. I think were going to see him sign for the 3.8m at the deadline. Boras is doing his best to see if the Pirates will budge, but the stakes are much too high, even if the team finishes strong and ends up picking in the 20’s.

I’d like to see what other elite Juniors picked atop the draft in the past didn’t sign, and how they fared the following year.

That said I’m sure teams like the Cubbies & Padres aren’t having second thoughts on passing on him.

Casor_Greener
3 years 1 month ago

Based on what?

3 years 1 month ago

Jon Heyman is Boras’ puppet. The Pirates are the ones that have all the chips in this negotiation, Boras is just trying to get what he can for his client by releasing this “information”….What a non story  

Thom
3 years 1 month ago

Boras is such an annoying jerk.  I’ll bet Appel signs at the last minute for $3.6 or so.  There is ZERO upside to him staying another year, and the Pirates would be fine taking the compensation pick for not signing him.  This is just another Boras tactic. 

Colin Christopher
3 years 1 month ago

I don’t have a problem with Boras, because he’s the one looking out for the players against their billionaire owners, but I totally agree with everything else you said. There’s NO point in Appel going back to Stanford. He couldn’t get that much more in the long run by becoming the #1 pick next season, but he could risk everything by getting injured. Take the money and secure your future, kid.

ctiger14
3 years 1 month ago

You are exactly right.  This is just posturing by Boras.  Appel is not going back to school to lose money next year whe he has ZERO bargaining power.  That is assuming that he still has a good year AND that he does not get hurt.  Not a roll of the dice that I would be willing to take if I were the player or the agent.  $3.8M is life changing money.

Tacho Bill
3 years 1 month ago

As a Pirates fan, if he doesn’t want to sign, good riddance and good luck getting more (or even as much) money next year. Also, Heyman is a turd. 

Bob Cunningham
3 years 1 month ago

It’s all positioning. He really has little leverage this year and none next year year. He’ll get signed. It’s all part of the game.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 1 month ago

That’s the way I figure it. If this kid was a high school senior then it would be one thing, but the next draft Appel can enter will be as a college senior meaning he’ll have very little leverage no matter how good he is.

He should take the $3.8M and be happy.

3 years 1 month ago

The way the Pirates are playing this could work out amazingly either way. Assuming they continue playing how they are playing…

If Appel signs…
They get a pithcer to go with Cole and Jameson that was a potential no.1 overall pick

If not…
The get a top 10 pick even though they pick in the later portions of the round.

either way it works with the pirates

Jordan Coats
3 years 1 month ago

No the pirates would get a compensation pick at the end of the first round if they can’t sign him.

sports33
3 years 1 month ago

No it’d be the ninth pick assuming no one ahead of them doesn’t sign their first-rounder either

cubsfan97
3 years 1 month ago

Unless the CBA changed those rules, of you fail to sign your first round pick, you get an Identical pick the next year, so they would indeed get a top ten pick.

Mark Ludwig
3 years 1 month ago

It didn’t change but it’s not the identical pick. You get one pick later, so they’d get the 9th pick next year.

bucsws2014
3 years 1 month ago

I’m about as excited about Appel as I was about Bullington. Which means not much.

Sign Buehler, move on.

coachL
3 years 1 month ago

I agree, big deal if Appel does not sign, we get the #9 pick next year in a supposedly better top half of a draft than this year’s. I’d offer him $2.9 mil and say if you don’t like it then go ahead and go back to college. Then even if he does sign, I would take the $900 K that will be left and sign Buehler as well.

sdsuphilip
3 years 1 month ago

Appel will be hands down considered the best college pitcher of next years draft if he doesn’t sign.

Mark Ludwig
3 years 1 month ago

Unless his performance slips at all…or he gets hurt. Not only that, the number 9 pick could easily be a better player (even if he’s not a college pitcher) than Appel. Personally, I think Appel is very good and I was pumped to draft him, but he’s hardly flawless. Didn’t quite dominate like a guy with his stuff should.

schaddy24
3 years 1 month ago

The Pirates have all of the leverage. If Appel goes back to school, he will be stuck with whatever his new team offers him next year. Its not like he can go back to school again and again until he gets the money he wants. If he’s smart, he will sign because this ordeal is sending a HUGE red flag to all the other ball clubs. Other teams will pass him up next year because they know that he is self centered and that Boras is firmly planted in his ear.

sdsuphilip
3 years 1 month ago

And if he improves his stock next year a team will be willing to pay 4.5 mill + and he will easily go top 5. All he has to show is better command of the fastball and he will get a better offer next year.

jeffmaz
3 years 1 month ago

It is hard to get a top 8 offer 2 years in a row.  It is impossible to get a #1 offer 2 years in a row.  No matter what…Appel will earn less than his original 6.6 mil offer – probably a lot less.

3 years 1 month ago

is it worth risking 3.8 million in order to get 4.5 million? Appel is taking a big risk, also he slows down his development, and will reach the majors slower as a result, which will in turn reduce is earnings anyway. Enough is enough, he’s one injury away from getting nothing.

Mark Ludwig
3 years 1 month ago

He would HAVE to go top 3 to get that much. Not only that, even if he does go top 3, who is to say that teams would offer him slot money? Look at how many top picks signed way under slot this year. Now how much leverage is a college senior going to have? Is he really going to threaten to go play for the Washington Wild Things for 500 bucks a month instead of taking an under slot deal of 3 mil or so? Guys have done it, of course, but with the restrictions that this system places on spending, you just aren’t going to have teams spending whatever it takes to sign a kid (like the Pirates did with Josh Bell).

baseballz
3 years 1 month ago

You think he fell to #8 because of his fastball command ??? Im not even going to ask which game of his you saw where you could think that but that is def not the reason he fell.

Appel fell because when talent is considered equal you draft the guy who will allow you to facilitate the signing of the rest of your draft picks. Appel wasn’t the consensus first pick and he wont be next year either.

Will he be a top 3 pick based on talent, Yes he will. Will he get more then the 6 million the Astros were offering him this year ? No because the team that wants to pick first will want to do what Houston did this year and use the saving on the first pick in order to sign multiple first round talent guys.

If I can draft Ryne Stanek next year, a comparable talent, for 5 million, then I can count on signing at least two more first round talents with my second and third round picks – especially since the compensation round will be reduced by 80% most likely. If I sign Appel, sure he’s more polished then Stanek, but he is going to cost me all 7 million or so of my first pick budget and then im stuck trying to scrimp in later rounds in order to try and sign lesser talents.

Either Appel doesn’t understand the new CBA or Boras is just blowing smoke. If Appel goes back to school he may get an extra million bucks but he will be another year older, have pitched even more college games where pitch counts mean nothing and then he’s betting on no other talents stepping up their games and unseating him as the best pitcher in the draft.

Also someone doesn’t even have to be better then Appel to go higher then him next year, all they have to do is be comparable to him and willing to take less money.

cdlewey
3 years 1 month ago

“All he has to show is better command of the fastball and he will get a better offer next year.”

The thing is, he probably won’t get a better offer next year. He’ll be a college senior with no leverage in negotiations. What’s he gonna do, threaten to play in Europe instead of signing?

not_brooks
3 years 1 month ago

Appel already witnessed first-hand how far signability concerns can cause a player to drop on draft day.

Maybe next year he’ll see how far a player can fall after a mediocre season. Or an injury. Or attitude concerns after he turns down $4MM this year. Or a host of other things that could ruin his chances at getting selected in the top ten again.

Appel and Boras are obviously thinking about those concerns. They’ll sign on the dotted line eventually. It’s too much of a risk not to. Boras is just doing his job, trying to get every last penny for his client.

sdsuphilip
3 years 1 month ago

There wont be “attitude concerns” just because he turned down a decent offer. Or maybe he goes higher after a better season? Improves command on fastball and changeup show promise as an above average pitch?

not_brooks
3 years 1 month ago

Yeah, maybe he goes higher. Or maybe he doesn’t. Maybe he’s even better as a senior. Maybe he’s not.

If you don’t take the deal, there’s a chance you won’t get $4MM next year. There’s even a chance you won’t get $1.5MM. Heck, there’s even a chance you won’t get drafted.

If you take the deal, you’ve got the $4MM. It’s yours. And you’re a professional baseball player to boot.

This question is, are you willing to turn down perhaps your only shot at $4MM because you might, repeat, might, get more than that next year?

I know what I’m doing if I’m Mark Appel. What about you?

3 years 1 month ago

 He’s unfortunately advised by Boras, Boras has tons of money, he’s in this for ego now.

schellis
3 years 1 month ago

Honestly if you are drafted in the first 10 picks and don’t sign I hope you suffer something that cost you that as a career.  If you are good enough you will eventually be paid with a massive contract.   I rather the money that went to players that were drafted or the non-draft eligible players go to those that have proven something at the major league level.

If anything I’d really stick it to these types of players and make it so the drafting team can retain the player as their pick the following season with a the player taking a sizable hit to the max amount they could be offered regardless where that team was picking.

If Appel doesn’t sign I hope that Matt Harrington will put in a good word for him at the garage that he was working for.

not_brooks
3 years 1 month ago

Harrington is a special case of stupidity.

Dude was drafted, what, five times? And each time he seemed shocked that he was offered less money than the time before.

baseballz
3 years 1 month ago

hahaha, wow just looked up Harrington, he’s working at Costco now for minimum wage. I wonder if Boras still takes a commision on that. Classic though, yet another reason to hate Boras.

Shane McMahon
3 years 1 month ago

Not real sure why these guys need agents anymore with the new slot system.  You know where you fall and the range you’ll receive….just do it on your own.  Hire an agent once your first contract expires.  Boras is just trying to be cute and work the system again.

3 years 1 month ago

 Eh, the new system is actually more complicated since it’s likely that a team will offer below slot to save cap room, a player might have zero idea what he is worth as a result of where he was drafted since it’s even more meaningless now.

Zico
3 years 1 month ago

I haven’t wanted Appel to sign from the moment they drafted him.  Boras is a pain, Appel got rocked in his starts after the draft, and there is no leverage for Appel in my opinion. No player, no matter what team, is worth signing above slot and the loss of a 1st round pick.  Plus this isn’t the type of attitude I would want in the system.  

Red_Line_9
3 years 1 month ago

As I see it…Boras has already cost Appel nearly $5 million sheerly by representing him.

Crucisnh
3 years 1 month ago

I had to think about your comment for a moment, but I think that you may be onto something here.  By having Boras as his agent, Appel quite possibly dropped a number of spots in the 1st round due to signability issues.  And as a result, his slot number also dropped as well.  And the fact that going over a certain number would cause the signing team to lose a draft pick really puts a very firm cap on what teams will be willing to pay.

So, yes, having Boras as his agent at this point may indeed have cost Appel serious money.  I wonder if players might be wiser to pick some other agent to represent them initially, but wait until later if they’d rather have Boras for their first big free agent contract. 

Red_Line_9
3 years 1 month ago

Technically, Boras is only his “advisor” to maintain Appel’s amatuer status.  It’s known that the Astros had offered him an initial $6.6M to sign as the #1 overall pick. 

I’m not sure why a Stanford educated young man would need initial representation.  Clearly, not with the slot system as set.  Not unless Appel and Boras plan a legal battle against MLB.  Which would be fruitless, because there is no rock solid law stating that teams can’t go over the recommended slot. 

Appel wants to sell his product for more than $6M initially…and the Pirates don’t have much incentive to pay the price.

Crucisnh
3 years 1 month ago

From simply negotiating the raw money, I see what you’re saying. But I can see why having a professional around to make certain the entire contract is proper would be a good thing. Regardless, it seems that having Boras as one’s initial “advisor”/agent/whatever may actually cost these players money rather than get them money when it comes to their “draft” contract.

baseballz
3 years 1 month ago

It really makes me wonder what a “Stanford educated young man” really means anymore. Appel is really making Stanford look foolish. I hear if he doesn’t sign Stanford is actually going to make him transfer to Brown just to avoid the embarrassment. 

formerdraftpick
3 years 1 month ago

They spelled Apple incorrectly.

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 1 month ago

Its French

formerdraftpick
3 years 1 month ago

Pomme is the word for apple in French.

Casor_Greener
3 years 1 month ago

It didn’t hurt because most people got signed.  I have failed to see anyone make sense when they say slotting hurts baseball.

3 years 1 month ago

I’ll take a shot here. I don’t agree with what I’m about to say fully but I understand the logic. If there is not hard cap and hard floor for salaries in MLB, there should not be one for draftees. From Boras’ point of view, Appel might already be better than Kevin Correia (replacement level, in the rotation) who is making $4 million this season. So in his eyes, why is his (future) client not worth at least $1 million per season (ignoring obvious arbitration rates)? How can we have two separate markets in baseball where draftees are under a different economic law than every other player (already) in the game? Thus, you have stripped a huge financal part of the game away by saying that the market can no longer dictate a player’s value.

soxin10
3 years 1 month ago

Boras’s standpoint is heavily skewed towards him and not relevant to the game. He has no interest in the financial stability of the game, only him, and to a lesser degree his clients. If you start listening to Boras, every college player would earn a minimum 5Mill bonus, double if they are breathing, and the MLB minimum would be somewhere around 20-25 mil. Not sure you can make any assumptions about a drafted pitcher out of college who has not thrown a professional pitch. You surely cannot say he is better than established major leaguers. Would you seriously start Apple over Correia next week? No matter how rich we think owners are, there are a finite amount of dollars. If those dollars are spent on College drafts, won’t mlb players start bitching when they cannot get theirs? If I am not mistaken, this has probably already happended in small market areas.

3 years 1 month ago

I absolutely agree, that’s why I prefaced by stating “I don’t agree with what I’m about to say fully but I understand the logic”. If you only view things as black and white and Boras is a scumbag who doesn’t care about anything but himself, obviously this logic is not, well, logical. My point is that his job is to make money for his client and thus make money for his agency. He isn’t trying to break even and I would challenge you to find any agent in the game who is. 

Kevin Correia IS a replacement level Starting Pitcher. Every statistic points to that. Scott Boras believes his client is the best SP in the amateur ranks. That would make him comparable to a pitcher such as Kevin Correia by as early as September. Thus, his client is worth month than $1 million a year if Correia is making $4 million.

The OP asked what the thinking was against slot, that is what my opinion of a converse opinion is. It’s that simple. I am in your corner to an extent but also understand we’ve set up a free trade economy in the sport up until this point. It’s going to be difficult and will face scrutiny changing gears this dramatically but it probably is better for the long term stability of the game. And that is what we all want; Yankees fans to Royals fans want a stable sport that continues to give every fan the dream their team will find success at some point.

jeffmaz
3 years 1 month ago

MLB owners got tired of paying crazy money for draftees – most of which will not succeed.  The Players got sick of seeing undeserved high school and college players getting paid more than veterans.  The new CBA evens out the salaries for new vs vet players.

3 years 1 month ago

 I’m more tired of seeing players paid absurd amounts for past production, I root for a guy to make his money but the FA contracts are out of control.

3 years 1 month ago

I don’t know why other NCAA athletes are held to such strict guidelines, while baseball players can declare for a draft,hire an agent and call him an “unpaid adviser” to get through a loop hole and can pick and choose if/when they want to sign… then when all else fails, the NCAA welcomes them back with open arms. Talk about a double standard!