Pitching Notes: Blue Jays, Lee, Garza, Oswalt

The Blue Jays announced that right-handers Drew Hutchison (Tommy John surgery) and Dustin McGowan (arthroscopic shoulder surgery) will undergo operations on Thursday. Hutchison is expected to return within a year or so, but no timetable is listed for McGowan, who had previous shoulder surgeries in 2008 and 2010. Here are some more notes pertaining to MLB pitchers…


Leave a Reply

43 Comments on "Pitching Notes: Blue Jays, Lee, Garza, Oswalt"


bigpat
3 years 22 days ago

What is going on with the Blue Jays organizational philosophy where nearly every pitcher is just blowing out their arm one by one? It could just be a huge coincidence, and I know McGowan is extremely injury prone, but something’s wrong when that many guys are getting hurt one after another. Happened during the JP era as well.

Lunchbox45
3 years 22 days ago

Mcgowan hurt his shoulder years ago and hasn’t been the same since so this has nothing to do with the recent string of injuries

Drabek, Hutch and Perez have all gone down with elbow surgeries. While 3 is significant, keep in mind that its drabeks second trip, and the other 2 isn’t a significant amount to consider it an organizational issue

bigpat
3 years 22 days ago

Good point with McGowan and Drabek. I took McGowan’s injury with a grain of salt since he had chronic arm problems. I guess arm injuries are an epidemic throughout the entire league, certainly very common this year, but I just wonder if organizations can be at fault? I don’t see what Toronto has done wrong with these guys, I don’t think they pitch them until their arm falls off (Texas Rangers), but it’s just strange.

Lunchbox45
3 years 22 days ago

like I said, 2 TJ injuries isn’t even worth combing through the organization to see if something in particular could have brought this about.

it is what it is unfortunately. pitchers are prone to injuries and the jays ran in to some bad luck. Its not just the pitchers through, from top to bottom the jays system has had a brutal year for injuries.

bigpat
3 years 22 days ago

What was the Sergio Santos injury? He was one of the first guys I thought of because I believed he’d be a great addition to Toronto but he almost looked like damaged goods. Ineffective from the start then injured.

Jaysfan724
3 years 22 days ago

The silver lining with Santos though is we still have great control of him and we only had to pay him 1 mill this year. And Nestor Molina got hurt down in the minors…hasn’t pitched since June I believe. He wasn’t pitching that great in AA anyway. So I wouldn’t say the Jays were fleeced in that trade even if they were given damaged goods, but neither side has yet to benefit from the trade.

rockfordone
3 years 22 days ago

White Sox got the best of the deal. If for only one reason we didn’t have to see Santos on the mound. Awful last year

Jaysfan724
3 years 22 days ago

I wouldn’t say he was awful, but looking at his month by month stats, he was streaky. Struggled in September and June, but was very effective every other month.

Lunchbox45
3 years 22 days ago

lol okay

3 years 22 days ago

Poor Dustin…

Colin Christopher
3 years 22 days ago

No kidding. I hope he does what’s best for him, whether that means to keep trying to pitch or not. It’d be nice if the kid could lift his arm above his head when he’s 40.

Vail Beach
3 years 22 days ago

So… if the Phillies didn’t intend to trade Cliff Lee, why put him on waivers? That seems nonsensical. Perhaps what the writer meant is that the Phils didn’t intend to trade Lee UNLESS they were bowled over by an offer, from a team that happened not to appear on Lee’s no-trade list (perhaps the Yankees or Red Sox), a circumstance they didn’t expect, but wanted to be in a position to capitalize on if it developed. What other reason could a team have for putting a player on waivers after the trade deadline?

3 years 22 days ago

Teams put almost their entire roster on waivers in August. Thats why this was a non-story from Day 1. By throwing your entire roster on waivers you do not tip your hand as to who you are really trying to get through waivers to deal and sometimes it even helps allow you sneak players through. It is almost like a game of poker where you bluff with some and it is up to the opposing GMs to figure out who you would pull back and who you would let go.

JosephB77
3 years 22 days ago

I still can’t beleive they didn’t let him go.

hiflyer000
3 years 22 days ago

Why let him go when you can actually get something for him this offseason, if you even wanted to trade him? I imagine once Texas gets knocked out in the 1st round this year because their pitching is so terrible they’ll be foaming at the mouth for him.

LongoforLife
LongoforLife
3 years 22 days ago

still dont understand why the blue jays FO decided to extend Mcgowan. He had a history of arm issues and the jays FO had to figure he would continue having arm issues and they still give him this offseason extension. Great job by Mcgowan’s agent

johnsmith4
3 years 22 days ago

Wow, I am impressed that you “knew” he was going to continue to have arm problems. McGowan has at least two plus pitches. When he commands them, he is a No. 2 quality starting pitcher. You typically pay $1.5 mil to $2 mil in signing bonuses to draft prospects with this potential. McGowan’s deal was shrewd given all the quality arms in the Jays’ farm system are in Low A or Rookie ball.

vtadave
3 years 22 days ago

Sorry, but I’d have to agree with Baseball Watch guy. The guy had 21 big league innings in three years and was a walking injury, but somehow that warranted a two-year deal? I guess the reward (a potentially solid SP when healthy) outweighed the money, but it’s not exactly a shocker that he’s hurt.

Jaysfan724
3 years 22 days ago

I’d rather pay that money to McGowan in hopes he was going to pitch again with his potential than blowing all that money like the Indians have on Grady Sizemore. McGowan got chump change (yes hard to believe 1.5 and 2 mill are chump change nowadays).

johnsmith4
3 years 22 days ago

McGowan was definitely a high risk guy. In fact, extreme risk is probably a better characterization. That is different from saying it was guaranteed the guy will get injured. Unless you like to exaggerate to make your point.

By the way, there are not many No. 2 starting pitchers (2 plus pitches avg 3rd pitch & avg command) in baseball. Plus, getting guys who project to No.2 SP are hard to acquire. Paying $1.5 mil for a guy who might be just around the corner from being a No. 2 SP is a good price.

baseballz
3 years 22 days ago

Also the Jays don’t want another Chris Carpenter situation where they gave up on a guy who had all the talent in the world but was perceived to be to injured to ever show it on the field. The cost has been minimal but the payoff would be enormous, hopefully someone will tell McGowan to stop throwing mid 90’s and his slider and just focus on the curve and changeup. We don’t need him to be the McGowan of old for his extension to be worth it, a #3 starter right now would still be a huge plus.

Your right though, he did look aweful last year when he came back, but just because his velocity was there Jays fans were all swooning to much to see the obvious signs of stress he was putting himself under.

johnsmith4
3 years 22 days ago

The baseball analyst thought he had his pitches. It was simply a matter of commanding them. If he does/did, there was/is a good chance he is better than Brandon Morrow.

BTW, the difference between a No. 3 SP & No. 2 is No. 3 has one plus pitch; 2 avg pitches; & avg command. No 2 has 2 plus pitches. McGowan certainly would have been No. 2 quality if he gained/gains his command.

baseballz
3 years 22 days ago

Im not sure if you missed what I wrote, or if i should have elaborated more, but if McGowan dials his fastball back and scraps his best pitch (slider) then he could rely on a his plus changeup and survive with his ok fastball and ok curveball.

He can’t keep expecting to throw his slider 20% of the time and not keep getting injured, a slider is murder on the shoulder of which he almost now has none.

You can say that he has two plus pitches fastball/slider if you were under the belief that McGowan could maintain any semblance of health ala 2007, but what my original post was describing was the current state of a guy who’s rotater cuff is so loose (affects control) and who’s labrums are so stretched (affects ability to maintain velocity) that pitching with control and command will only be possible if he accepts the new realities of how he needs to pitch. We should be thinking more Bedard then Carpenter.

I know Jays fans love to swoon over McGowan but lets face it, the McGowan people drool over only existed in 2007 when he was healthy enough to use all four of his pitches. Its not like were mourning something that we had for very long.

johnsmith4
3 years 21 days ago

Yep, it makes sense.

jacks100
3 years 22 days ago

Oh you “knew”… well that does it then.

Lunchbox45
3 years 22 days ago

chances are they wanted to give him financial security so he didn’t attempt to rush back too early and hurt himself even more.

meh its only 4 million bucks i rather it go to him then to cordero?

richardb21
3 years 22 days ago

Texas should have seen this coming with Oswalt. He hasn’t been healthy in years plus pitching in Texas against AL lineups doesn’t help. Love what he did in Houston but he should have retired after he left PHI.

Smrtbusnisman04
3 years 22 days ago

He’s been great in two outings as a reliever. Thats his new role and he needs to accept that because he sucks as a starter. He would give his team a better chance to win if he really wants that World Series Ring.
Plus, does he think the Rangers’ management is stupid? Just because the team is 4-2 in games Roy started doesn’t mean he was the reason they won those games.
Roy, DO WHAT YOUR TOLD!!!

sdsuphilip
3 years 22 days ago

Two? nice sample size there

Karkat
3 years 22 days ago

So the Cubs passed up a great opportunity to trade Garza at peak value last offseason, and now probably will have to sell markedly low if they can deal him at all? Nice work there, Theo and Jed.

stl_cards16
3 years 22 days ago

Kevin Youkilis……….

Karkat
3 years 22 days ago

That hurts, man :(

youuuuuuuuuuuk………

YanksFanSince78
3 years 22 days ago

flawless victory…haha

BitLocker
3 years 22 days ago

The cubs were busy trying to get a new front office in Theo and Jed. Once they were in place they had to see what talent they had. They wanted to trade him during the July trade deadline, but Garza got injured. The best thing to do is to keep him and have Garza pitch again for the first half to build up trade value and then trade him. It wasn’t really Theo or Jed’s fault here. Crap just happened.

Karkat
3 years 22 days ago

The Cubs had PLENTY of time to deal Garza over the winter, and I have no idea why they didn’t.

johnsilver
3 years 22 days ago

Epstein knows he has a ghost town farm system in chicago. Garza is really all he has to trade without raising the ire of every community organizer that city has to come looking for his job… As in he should move Castro while he still has value and his non get on base approach kills his inflated perceived value to some GM’s.

Other than Castro? Garza was the only one and he felt he had to hold onto him until he could get maximum value back and unfortunately for him? greinke and Sanchez were also available, both IMO, better than Garza and it destroyed his trade deadline market.

sdsuphilip
3 years 22 days ago

Castro is the type of player you build around, middle infielders that can hit like him and have power projection like he does in future don’t come around often. The reason you trade Garza is you don’t expect to be competing while he is in his prime, that is different with Castro.

johnsilver
3 years 22 days ago

Poor plate discipline that could end up as a glove guy and end up getting exploited.

he may be near 6 years service time regardless and not under inexpensive by the time the Cubs are competitive.

Remember Cubs fans were of the same mind when geovany soto had been in the league a couple of years and we saw which way his ended up.

Just saying.. Poor plate discipline and pitchers at this level sometimes will find that weakness if the guys are not willing to adapt.

sdsuphilip
3 years 22 days ago

There is 0 reason to think Castro will become a glove only guy he has one of the higher hit tools in all the majors and is getting stronger. The scouting report on Castro has been out for quite a bit of time and it hasn’t mattered.

PWNdroia
3 years 21 days ago

Matt Garza > Anibal Sanchez

Garza can pitch in the AL East.

johnsilver
3 years 21 days ago

Umm.. Has Anibel had a chance yet?

Don’t be surprised if Boston makes a pitch for Sanchez this off season and FYI?? Sanchez was originally signed by Duquette as an IFA…

PWNdroia
3 years 21 days ago

He hasn’t, but I don’t think his numbers will be great in the AL until I see it.

Douglas Bath
3 years 21 days ago

if the Phils did not intend to trade Cliff Lee, then why was he placed on waivers?