Anthopoulos On Blue Jays: Starters, Navarro, Second Base

The Blue Jays look increasingly likely to end the offseason without making much noise, writes Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca. Toronto seemed primed to make some decisive changes, but has given out just one guaranteed MLB deal through free agency. Here are some notes on the club, featuring plenty of comments directly from GM Alex Anthopoulos:

  • As recent reports have indicated, Toronto is increasingly unlikely to add a new arm. "As we sit here today with what the current cost would be," Anthopoulos said today, "we feel better with what we have here internally." 
  • Anthopoulos had indicated that Toronto could be in the market for one or even two starters after a disappointing 2013. But, he said, the club gained confidence in the current slate of rotation options as time went on, reports MLB.com's Gregor Chisholm"As the offseason has progressed, we've felt better about the internal options, especially the young guys," explained Anthopoulos.
  • Though he has consistently stated that overpaying for a pitcher is not preferable, Anthopoulos acknowledges he did just that in addressing the team's catching situation, reports John Lott of the National Post. The Jays inked Dioner Navarro to a two-year, $8MM deal to become the club's new backstop. "I would have preferred to do one year and lower dollars," Anthopolous said, explaining that the club felt change was necessary at that position. But the GM feels that the pitching scenario is different: "We wanted to add to the rotation depth, but again, with where some of the prices were, whether it was years or dollars, or some of the acquisition costs in some of the trades, I wouldn't have felt good doing a scrum, sitting here saying, 'well, we did it, we don't believe in the acquisition costs, we just did it because we felt we had to do it, but we don't feel good about it.' You need to feel good about those moves if you make them."
  • Likewise, Anthopoulos said that the Jays are probably not going to make any moves at second, the other major area of apparent need, Chisholm reports on Twitter"I would think it's unlikely that we add someone there," said the GM, "but I would say that we'll still continue to have some dialogue trade-wise."


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121 Comments on "Anthopoulos On Blue Jays: Starters, Navarro, Second Base"


BrettLawriesnewesttattoo
1 year 5 months ago

My heart sank when Anthopolous quoted pitcher wins and used the phrase “productive outs” in that same scrum.

Guest
1 year 5 months ago

I’m outside looking in here as an O’s fan, but all I’ve heard about AA is how progressive and awesome he is. I feel like when AA says “we’re doing nothing”, people are like, “Good, stay the course, AA.”

O’s fans have wanted a GM like AA for years and yet with a relatively crappy pick in the draft available to give up for a comp FA, and letting Johnson walk, and not really any arms on the level of Gausman/Bundy, I’m not sure why they’re not all over Santana, or someone similar.

Also, if the O’s can find a 1 WAR Ryan Flaherty in the Rule 5, there’s really no excuse for the Jays’ 2B situation.

1 year 5 months ago

The whole letting Johnson walk thing is IMHO where the offseason fell apart for the Jays. Sure, he’s a risk, but 14M over one year, not that risky given his past and what they are left with. Among the young pitchers, I do believe there is hope for one or two of them to do well, but not enough hope that they could stand pat. Especially given the lesser pick they would give up for a FA.

Jefftown37
1 year 5 months ago

It’s funny that I might miss Josh Johnson, but that’s actually a good point. Given what he signed for in San Diego, it seems he would’ve taken it, especially to rebuild value. But you never know. And maybe the Jays know something about his medicals more specific than us fans’ general knowledge of his overall injury-proneness.

stl_cards16
1 year 5 months ago

That injury proneness would of been something to look into before they shipped a load of talent to Miami for one year of him. Yes, I know they got Reyes and Buehrle too, but they provide no surplus value with their contracts.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

They did? If you read the comments from the media scrum today, AA specifically mentions the medical work they did on their acquisitions from Miami…

besson3c
1 year 5 months ago

You’ve seen the long list of in-house possibilities, many (Hutchison, Drabek, Stroman, Sanchez, McGowan, Romero) with significant upside. Heck, even Redmond provided at least league average innings and he’s still young. This is the “throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks” approach, but Johnson/Ubaldo/Santana would have just been more spaghetti, and we have enough spaghetti.

What is going to make or break the year is the performance of the #1 – 3 starters, not the back-end of the rotation. There should be enough decent innings in there.

George Vander Buist
1 year 5 months ago

I agree with your multiple spaghetti analogies but where we disagree is with your last paragraph. I don’t like saying we can just have has-beens, replacement level guys, or whatever because heck it’s only the #4 and #5 guys so we don’t really expect them to win games anyway

besson3c
1 year 5 months ago

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that it was a failure in some way that we couldn’t obtain a frontline starter so that the others in our rotation could shift down a slot, but I’m saying that it was somewhat understandable given the lack of free agents and trade chips.

I’m also saying that for filling out the #4 and #5 slots we have plenty of in-house options that could provide the same sort of innings that any team typically gets out of these positions. Buying Ubaldo or Santana just adds to that stockpile, and if either don’t perform it blocks the development of players like Stroman, Hutchison, Drabeck, Sanchez, Romero, and even McGowan with the upside to be better than #4 and #5 calibre starters. Obviously we’ll all disagree with who in this list has that upside, but hopefully my point is clear…

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Well said.

There is no reason for the Jays to pay premium dollars for average to above average players when the entire 40 man roster has players that deserve to be there.

If one simply took half a second to observe the pitchers on the 40 man roster (and another half second to observe the out-of-options pitchers on the 25 man roster) one would quickly find that a 50 M player does not represent a significant upgrade over the individuals already with the team. A player like Tanaka might have, but realistically, the Jays were never in that conversation despite the fact that AA did his due diligence on the player.

besson3c
1 year 5 months ago

You’ve seen the long list of in-house possibilities, many (Hutchison, Drabek, Stroman, Sanchez, McGowan, Romero) with significant upside. Heck, even Redmond provided at least league average innings and he’s still young. This is the “throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks” approach, but Johnson/Ubaldo/Santana would have just been more spaghetti, and we have enough spaghetti.

What is going to make or break the year is the performance of the #1 – 3 starters, not the back-end of the rotation. There should be enough decent innings in there.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Look at the contract JJ signed with SD. Why on earth would you willingly pay nearly twice as much for JJ than what he got on the open market?

Sound move by AA not paying JJ 14.1 mil for the 2014 season.

Even JJ’s agent was on the radio mid season last season saying “yeah looks like we will be accepting the QO if offered to us, as of right now.”

JJ would have been the only player in the two years of the current FA Arb system to actually accept the compensation arbitration offer.

David Jackson
1 year 5 months ago

There hasn’t been too much praise on AA since last season. He was well-regarded when he was kinda building for the future: stockpiling draft picks and making some good choices, making trades for high-potential players other teams soured on (Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus,etc), etc. Then the Miami trade was a very positive one at the time, too.

Once he kinda went in win-now mode and started trading all those prospects away for guys like Happ and Dickey (and the trade with Miami hasn’t turned out too well) is when his stock started to fall. Now the farm system is relatively weak (most the good prospects are in low-A) and the major league team sucked last season, and so a quiet offseason like this one seems kinda terrible and makes AA look even worse.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

As of right now, the trades haven’t exactly worked out so well for Miami, Houston, or the Mets….

Until any of those guys do anything the Major League level we have no basis for comparison, and no one batted an eye at the acquisition costs at the time each of those trades were made.

GRN_
1 year 5 months ago

He dumbs things down for the media.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Even in the media, AA has quoted every stat known to man kind…. the dude clearly does not make his pitching decisions based on “pitching wins” and anyone frightened by the notion that a gm might mention pitching wins to the media on occasion takes their team’s gm’s comments way too seriously.

GRN_
1 year 5 months ago

double post

Tigers72
1 year 5 months ago

Hernan Perez and a low a ball pitcher for Brett Cecil.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Pass.

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

I know that Blue Jay fans are passionate for their team, but the team is an absolute mess. At least the O’s and Rays have a ‘core’ to work from. The Jays are a mish-mosh of this and that. Don’t know what the plan is, what the direction is.

Guest
1 year 5 months ago

yes because Jose Reyes, Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarsmashion, Brett Lawrie, Colby Rasmus, Adam Lind, RA Dickey, Buehrle, Brandon Morrow, Casey Janssen and Steve Delabar is not a “core to work from”.

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

To be fair, the core is the least of this team’s problem. Reyes-Encarnacion-Bautista-Lawrie-Rasmus-Lind is a pretty solid core, to go along with 3 decent starters and a whack of underpaid relievers. The problem is everyone else providing negative value.

JoeyBats13
1 year 5 months ago

And injuries, that’s really the main problem

1 year 5 months ago

It’s not just injuries, They were very bad to start the season with only Reyes out early on. And even if it was injuries, lack of depth then becomes an issue. Just like it will be this year.

JoeyBats13
1 year 5 months ago

Lawrie was out at the start as well and Melky was playing with a tumor in his back. Morrow and JJ never really looked right either and D!ckey started the year off injured as well, as shown with his dip in his velocity.

Jefftown37
1 year 5 months ago

To give a perspective on injuries, the projected opening day lineup only played 3 games together last season.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

This.

Hank Murphy
1 year 5 months ago

The rotation is a disaster. Morrow could be a front end type guy, but is like another Josh Johnson, odds are he will be just as bad/hurt this year as last. Dickey is at best a #3 starter and Buherle is not as good as Dickey, and both are old and getting older. That threesome are the 3,4,5 starters on a team that hopes to compete.

JoeyBats13
1 year 5 months ago

yes because Jose Reyes, Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarsmashion, Brett Lawrie, Colby Rasmus, Adam Lind, RA D!ckey, Buehrle, Brandon Morrow, Casey Janssen and Steve Delabar is not a “core to work from”.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Not comparatively, really, no.

JoeyBats13
1 year 5 months ago

How so?

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

There’s a heck of a lot of age and injury concern in that core, IMO. Lawrie OPS’d .712 man.

1 year 5 months ago

23 years old, plus defense, injured for the first half of the year.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Fair point. That guy would drive me nuts if I was a Jays fan though. Deep breath, Brett, deep breath.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Really? Brett Lawrie is very exciting to watch as far as baseball players are concerned, and I watch a lot of baseball (FYI most players and games are downright boring to the objective observer).

Maxxx Depth
1 year 5 months ago

I like Lawrie alot. Would love to have him in Texas once Beltre moves to DH in a few years.

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

I’ll have Joey stop by your place and you guys can talk about the good times, okay?

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

They have 5 position players who could quite realistically crack 4 WAR this year, how is that not a core?

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

It’s a core. It’s just not a core I’m feeling. Jose and Edwin will mash when healthy. Lind finally did something, congrats there. Morrow will make maybe 12 starts, but hey he’s got good stuff. Rasmus is solid. I dunno. Mish mashy.

Senior Editor
1 year 5 months ago

70-92 this year and if they get lucky maybe .500. The team is a mess and they need to trade as much as possible and regroup. They’re years from competing in the AL east.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Even if those position players crack 4 WAR, what’s their pitching doing?

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

That’s what I’m saying! Their core is good, the problem is everything around it.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

That’s fair. Top 3 starters look good on paper (if Morrow stays healthy), I’m just not sure why they’re not bolstering the 5th spot.

Dee
1 year 5 months ago

because the teams is owned by corporate owners have obviously closed their wallet. It’s hard to fault AA too much on that front. The reported asking price for SP on the trade market is absurd, so the only real route is free agency

No way to know for sure, but I would imagine that he could get them to loosen the purse strings a touch, but that would be putting his job on the line with a marginal squad. Hard to fault to him too much on that front I suppose. Still incredibly frustrating for a Jays fan

Jason J. Shaw
1 year 5 months ago

Because they are not reckless spenders like some teams.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

What is bolstering the 5th spot?

Redmond, McGowan, and Rogers are all out of options and deserve to be on the 25 man roster.

There is also the issue of having Hutchinson, Drabek, and Nolin on the 40 man roster as well as Stroman and Sanchez knocking on the door.

Not so sure why the 5th spot in the rotation needs to cost 10 mil per year when there are 4-7 (the 8th person i mentioned, sanchez, is not a legit contender for the 5 spot until next spring) legitimate contenders for the 5 spot this spring…

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Who are you comparing to? If you are comparing to the MLB, this is a fantastic group of players….

thestever
1 year 5 months ago

those guys aren’t exactly that young either, so one would hope they can pull something out of their hat

malna
1 year 5 months ago

The team is not a mess, it is only a mess to new baseball fans or baseball fans with short term memories.

The Jays were a mess the last half of Riccardi’s tenure, and the entire organization has been moving in nothing but a positive direction since AA was brought in to make the Halladay trade.

Hank Murphy
1 year 5 months ago

The Blue Jays are like an F1 car with no tires. If you put tires on it, it could go fast and win a race, with out the tires its a paperweight. They have serious fatal flaws that AA decided to ignore in the offseason instead of fixing them. As a result a promising team will be a terrible team that will compete with the Astros and Twins as the worst team in the AL. They have ZERO chance of competing, and the are only the longest shot chance at 4th place.

Tekoa Hook
1 year 5 months ago

Honestly I love the Jays and I’m not really disappointed with offseason, sure another starter would have been nice but what we have isnt really all that bad, someone said the team is a mess but I don’t think so at all, the only weak bats in the lineup imo are Navarro and Goins, both of which are above average defensively. One of the things that frustrated me most last year was poor defense and that’s sure to improve. I really don’t know why everyone is so upset, we can still compete.

Senior Editor
1 year 5 months ago

I’m predicting 70-92 at best…….the team IS a mess.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Well said good sir. We could all use a little more positivity around here….

Most people just seem a little bit spoiled complaining about the fact that their team did not spend 50m on an average to above average player….

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

Funny thing about the internal options is that apparently it wasn’t good enough last year when he gambled and lost at the Marlins casino, besides a possible Stroman appearance later in the year, don’t know what’s different this year – except getting taken to the cleaners last year.

JamieFC
1 year 5 months ago

Stroman, Hutchison, Drabek, Nolin (with one more year of development) and a healthy Morrow is what’s different. I don’t think it will be enough to contend, but that is better than what they had last year.

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

Tell me when you put the words healthy and Morrow (ouch) together do you get hit with an electric shock like I do?

besson3c
1 year 5 months ago

Plus a full year of Todd Redmond, who provided league average-ish innings. For a #4 or #5 with this offense, that’s not terrible.

jayson miller
1 year 5 months ago

interesting how that failed brett anderson deal couldve changed everything

sergio santos wouldve been the A’s closer, they wouldnt trade for jim johnson.

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

If that had been the case, I wonder if Johnson ever gets traded. If he doesn’t get traded, I wonder if Baltimore ever signs Ubaldo. If they don’t, I wonder if he and Santana would still be available and their prices much lower…

Sure is fun (read: depressing) to play this game….

1 year 5 months ago

Yeah they were cutting ties regardless, whether it was a trade or a non-tender. They certainly didn’t get much back for him and he was due to be a $10MM closer through arbitration with one year of control left.

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

thanks for the reality check, was getting depressed for a minute there

jayson miller
1 year 5 months ago

i call BS on him being nontendered. At the time the closer market nathan, wilson , etc were getting 10 mill deals. it wasnt until a month later prices for balfour, rodney, etc were lowered. Orioles are looking at an uncertain bullpen of hunter, o’day ,etc.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Exactly. There was no situation in which Baltimore was paying Johnson 10 MM next year given their current payroll.

It would have been exactly the same situation last year if the Pirates had have gone through arb with Hanrahan, and notice, they didn’t. Paying closers a significant percentage of one’s payroll has never made any sense for anyone.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Here’s an honest question for Jays fans. From a sort-of-hater O’s fan (mostly because I listened to your weirdo radio guys doing ST games and man, they just got so much wrong on the O’s, but anyway…)

What’s the deal with AA? For years all O’s fans wanted was to knock this guy out and tie him to the O’s GM chair in the Warehouse. Borderline worship from the New Baseball O’s Fans. Does he still hold that much clout with you all after the last few seasons?

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

It’s hard to say without knowing anything about what’s going on behind the scenes. If it’s entirely HIS decision not to sign a FA starter, I completely disagree with him. If he’s been given no budget to work with now because his trades last offseason didn’t work out, hard to really criticize him.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

I feel like if the O’s could find a 1 WAR Ryan Flaherty in the Rule 5, there’s no real excuse for the Jays 2B situation right now. But I guess Izturis just didn’t work out.

I understand not wanting to give up the pick for a starter, but don’t they have a crappy pick anyway?

malna
1 year 5 months ago

The difference between the current Jays and the current O’s is that the jays can actually spend money to fill holes on their roster.

Getting lucky with a rule 5 draft pick is indicative of a serious hole existing in the org, with no money available to patch said hole. It is not really indicative of anything else.

And the Jays would not have had to give up their first round pick to sign a protected FA as both the jays picks this year (9 and 11) are protected. The 11 pick is protected as it was a pick from the previous year for compensation in not signing that pick.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

I guess I feel like Duquette is pretty savvy himself but gets labeled as a goober, while AA is kind of impervious to criticism because he invented the “make waiver claims and DFA them immediately” move. Which was solid. But even signing a guy like Capuano would have been a nice depth/insurance move.

And when the O’s can find a 1 WAR Flaherty on the Rule 5 Draft, there’s really no excuse for the 2B situation.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Although I liked the Izturis signing, so that just didn’t work out, and I understand that.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Although I liked the Izturis signing, so that just didn’t work out, and I understand that.

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

He made a LOT of smart decisions and built up a lot and then made his move last offseason. It didn’t work out for a number of reasons, but now either he or Rogers (owner of the Jays) have decided to double down with a slightly worse team. As I said above, if that’s his choice then I disagree with him and think he is being foolish. If that’s Rogers’ choice, can you really criticize him?

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Capuano has no business pitching in the American League. Capuano does not represent an upgrade over what the Jays currently have, and it is very unlikely that Capuano would have wanted to sign with the Jays for the price he signed anyhow….

AA literally broke the DFAing system last year, and notice this offseason very few players are being passed through waivers unless those players have legitimately run their course.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

I guess I feel like Duquette is pretty savvy himself but gets labeled as a goober, while AA is kind of impervious to criticism because he invented the “make waiver claims and DFA them immediately” move. Which was solid. But even signing a guy like Capuano would have been a nice depth/insurance move.

And when the O’s can find a 1 WAR Flaherty on the Rule 5 Draft, there’s really no excuse for the 2B situation.

Budyzer
1 year 5 months ago

Absolutely not and further more all gm’s around the league are onto his game and are cutting him out of the loop.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

Do explain.

pastlives
1 year 5 months ago

He has no clue what he’s talking about.

Dee
1 year 5 months ago

I don’t think that weird report from Richard Griffin has anything to back it up

1 year 5 months ago

He traded Vernon Wells.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

That was a good move, sure.

thestever
1 year 5 months ago

and then proceeded to trade mike napoli for frank fransisco

wallywhack
1 year 5 months ago

Who did a great job while he was here. Napoli in California was not Napoli in Texas.

thestever
1 year 5 months ago

but fransisco was bad…

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Fransisco was a type B free agent? he clearly wasn’t that terrible….. and the jays still have their compensation pick for him…

(edit: not only do the jays still retain assets from the napoli/fransisco deal but they also saved in excess of about 10M directly from the trade)

stl_cards16
1 year 5 months ago

Yes, but even every arm-chair GM around knew that was a good move. It didn’t take some magical GM to jump at the chance of dumping that contract.

1 year 5 months ago

well of course he dumps the contract when given the chance. It’s getting someone to take it that’s the hard part.

Jason J. Shaw
1 year 5 months ago

Of course it was a good move, but to convince another team to take on Wells’ contract?? That is what is impressive!

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

Hard to be a hater- beautiful city, and the fans have this ungodly ability to see the silver lining in apparently any situation.

danistheguy
1 year 5 months ago

I like Toronto, been there once.

Jefftown37
1 year 5 months ago

The problem is, it’s hard to get results in the AL East, given the spending of the Yankees and Red Sox. The Rays found a way, and I envy their system. The Orioles were good in 2012, but they were also very lucky (e.g. Pythagorean of 82-80). The one-time 2012 season doesn’t rise to the level of the Rays’ recurring success. The Jays’ strategy has a “not quite here nor there” problem: a hybrid system that has a strong emphasis on player development — but not to the laser focus and tenacity of the Rays — and a lesser emphasis on acquiring players through trade, the latter because it is hard to sign free agents, partially due to the 5-year policy, but moreover, a lot of players just don’t feel comfortable living in another country, and the Jays’ past 20 years means some players might think they’ll never make the postseason with them. AA is great at acquiring and developing talented players, but it’s just the TEAM hasn’t clicked. He hired Gibbons, who is known as a players’ manager, but I’m not sure how much of a TEAM manager he is. He’s a little lax. I’d like to see how the team does this year, with a normal (or lower) level of injury problems. If they still falter, then I’ll have to reassess my opinion of AA, but as of now I still think he’s done a good job.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

1) Was forced to trade Halladay. Turned Halladay (+ one draft pick, and a couple spare tires) into RAD, Drabek, and Gose.
2) Traded the Vernon Wells contract for real baseball players (multiple ones).
2a) Is always criticized for the flipping of Napoli for Fransisco after this deal, but this was a very clear need for need deal at the time. In hindsight Napoli ended up having a career year he will never repeat in Texas, but the Jays still got Matt Smoral as comp for FF and the org saved well over 10M as FF was much cheaper and only had 1 yr contract (napoli had two years of arb left).
3) Traded nothing for Yunel Escobar (but was forced to trade Yunel after the eye black incident). Resigned Yunel to one of best contracts in baseball at the time.
4) Traded nothing for Colby Rasmus (rasmus has a chance to be the most valuable, youngest Type A free agent next offseason).
5) Signed E5 and Bautista to two of the most team friendly contracts in baseball (both were easy risks on the jays part, only national media viewed these signings as risks).
6) Traded nothing for Reyes and Buerhle (anyone hoping marisnick to pan out clearly has not seen marisnick swing the bat, and nicolino might be a useful 25 man piece…. but….. jose reyes is jose reyes)
7) Traded nothing for JA Happ. Jays actually saved money here by getting rid of cordero and replacing him with a useful brandon lyon. Houston did not even bother protecting Carlos Perez from the rule 5 draft this year, and Houston (of all teams) did not even attempt to use Asher Wojciechowski last year, though they did actually protect him from the rule 5 draft this year.
8) Traded Brandon League for Brandon Morrow (lol).
9) Traded Shaun Marcum for Brett Lawrie (by a $/war valuation this trade could also already be considered a LOL)
10) Traded nothing for Sergio Santos.
11) Traded nothing for Steve Delabar.
12) Traded a manager for a real baseball player.

I could keep on going on for days, but there is not a single transaction AA has made where an objective observer can sit back and say “WTF just happened there?!?!?! Why would AA do that?!?!?!” The only time people complain is things like failing to sign Darvish or failing to sign Jiminez, but since none of us are gods we cannot actually pin all the blame on him since obviously if he had unlimited monies he would have signed both these players…..

And complaining about your team “failing” to spend 50 m + just makes one seem spoiled. I am sure you, as an O’s fan can get on board with this.

AP
1 year 5 months ago

I agree with you mostly, in that AA is still a gem of a GM for the Jays, but the Dickey trade has been his worst trade. I don’t care if he was a knuckleballer coming off of a Cy Young year, he traded Syndergaard and D’Arnaud for a 38-year old pitcher. Just imagining Syndergaard in the rotation next year. Sigh.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

If you look at the acquisition costs for elite pitching in the 1-2 years before the RAD trade, you will notice that the jays acquired RAD at a discount compared to other elite pitchers. The jays were able to give up one less A level prospect as well as one less B level prospect. Also, the jays were able to negotiate one of the most team friendly extensions in baseball as part of the trade.

It was a sound trade at the time, and it will continue to be a sound trade.

Edit: there is also no other knuckleballer in the history of the game to win the Cy-Young or throw an 80 MPH knuckleball….

Also…. Syndergaard would not even make the Jays rotation this year? He would not even be on the 40 man roster yet, and at earliest, he would be called up in September 2014 or unless there were serious injuries. The jays already have Stroman, Drabek, Hutchinson, and Nolin capable of doing the exact same things Syndergaard is capable of, and Aaron Sanchez is only another half season away as well….

BENT_WOOKIE
1 year 5 months ago

talk about a hearty welcome to the team for dioner navarro. “we really didn’t think he was worth the little he got, but we were in a bind so whatever dudes”

I Want My Bird
1 year 5 months ago

Somehow when the Cubs sign Navarro, that makes sense, and even with a career year- when the Jays do it doesn’t. They probably end up with similar records so I need to adjust my expectation.

Jefftown37
1 year 5 months ago

Here’s what he said when they signed Navarro:

“The common theme was everybody likes throwing to him, very good game-caller, very bright. He could still improve on blocking balls in the dirt and his throwing is probably average. But knowing that guys love throwing to him and he’s a good game-caller and everyone raves about his bat, it made sense for us.”

Matt Brown
1 year 5 months ago

“Acquistion costs”?!?!? How about trading travis D’Arnaud AND Noah Syndegaard for Dickey!!!

Jason J. Shaw
1 year 5 months ago

Dickey’s back wasn’t healthy early in the season last year, and if I recall correctly, he was lights-out to end the season when his back health came around. If he’s good to go this year, as he seems to be feeling off the spring training get-go, he may change your tune.

Jefftown37
1 year 5 months ago

Dickey’s 1st half, 2013: 4.69 ERA, 1.96 K/BB
Dickey’s 2nd half, 2013: 3.56 ERA, 3.54 K/BB

malna
1 year 5 months ago

double post

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Umm yeah….

if you look at the acquisition costs of elite pitching in the 1-2 years before the RAD trade, this was actually a relatively cheap acquisition.

edwing
1 year 5 months ago

People seem to forget the shape the organization was in before anthopolous took over. The team was terrible and the farm system was bottom 5 according to BA. Since aa took over the entire organization has improved and to me that’s an indication of a successful gm. It’s undeniable he’s made some mistakes but the good outweighs the bad in my opinion

malna
1 year 5 months ago

As of right now, the Jays are slated to have Hutchinson, Drabek, and Stroman starting in AAA. (edit: also forgot about nolin)

The Jays have not had three legitimate SP prospects starting in AAA ready to come up at a moments notice in well over a decade, if it has ever happened in the history of the Jays.

Eric Lord
1 year 5 months ago

The problem AA has is he changed the course. If he would’ve kept his prospects & said stay the course and wait until they develop fully, it would be easier to handle. However, he traded away a lot of prospects & young players for veteran players. That is a win now mentality. Now, he is back tracking to stay the course this off-season. It is hard for Jays fans to take that with what he did last season. You can’t be win now one off-season and then keep those players and go into a stay the course mentality the next. You have to add to those players to try and win now. AA hasn’t done that. He needs a 2nd baseman badly and does nothing there. Roberto Alomar is still the best 2nd baseman in the organization and he’s been retired for a while. He needs a pitcher to eat up innings to take some innings off his bullpen (which is the strength of the team) & he has done nothing there either.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

The thing about prospects is….

If you “stay the course” and let them all fully develop, your team will be terrible because prospects are just prospects and nothing more.

stl_cards16
1 year 5 months ago

So what did all these really good players in MLB used to be before they were really good MLB players?

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Only some prospects were allowed to fully develop into all of the current MLB players? The rest were discarded?

What are you trying to assert here?

Conspiracy Theorist
1 year 5 months ago

Would have been amazing if Noah was still on the Jays…

BrettLawriesnewesttattoo
1 year 5 months ago

propaganda from Esmil Rogers?

Rally Weimaraner
1 year 5 months ago

Passing on Garza and Ubaldo at the price they signed for was a mistake by AA but you can’t fault him for not wanting to pursue Santana. Santana gets killed by the HR and Rodgers center is the 3rd best HR park in the league.

wallywhack
1 year 5 months ago

Ya, that’s why they backed up a truck full of money for all of last year’s acquisitions. Your selective reasoning has skipped over the fact that, minus JJ and Arencibia, this team was the odds on favourite to be making a pennant run in 2013.

publius varrus
1 year 5 months ago

Honestly, no one could live up to the praise heaped on him early in his GM days. TOR is so starved for a winner that they latched on to him like he was made of bacon. Only multiple titles would have made him ‘successful’ in our eyes.

Truthfully this team is light years ahead of where they were in ’09/’10 but not as far along as they thought they would be. As such, fans feel ‘led astray’ by the talk about playoff appearances, big acquisitions that haven’t panned out (yet), and unwise comments by Beeston about money/attendance and AA about the Darvish debacle.

Most TOR fans feel the same as you do, it seems, but acquiring guys like Santana or Jimenez only raises expectations unreasonably. Their talent level wouldn’t deliver on the expectations they would bring. The only player that they missed out on that irks me is Omar Infante; the rest have been ho hum, or were never realistic options anyways (Cano; Tanaka).

BrettLawriesnewesttattoo
1 year 5 months ago

yeah? ok, that makes me feel a bit better. thanks.

thestever
1 year 5 months ago

yes and that is probably the reason why he didn’t sign a free agent starter

Budyzer
1 year 5 months ago

I think the fact they tried to trade for Brett Anderson speaks to the budget they are really working under. I never understood why they would want him in the first place with all his injuries

malna
1 year 5 months ago

There was no Darvish debacle. Unless you are referring the general debacle that is the Toronto sports news media…

publius varrus
1 year 5 months ago

Agreed. I’m merely speculating (because I’ve never asked AA about it), but it seems to me as if AA is trying to catch lightning in a bottle with pitchers who have a sketchy history, injury-wise. If it’s not Morrow, it’s Anderson or Brandon McCarthy. It’s not a bad way to get a talented player below market value, but it has greater potential as a set-up for disappointment.

I can’t speak to the budget or corporate shill speculation that makes so many people angry. My life is too short to worry about that stuff.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Because they were going to trade Sergio Santos for Brett Anderson, a guy that also has his own injury history and some very expensive team option years ahead of him.

malna
1 year 5 months ago

Was it a mistake by AA or a mistake by Rogers?

malna
1 year 5 months ago

i like you.

It is very fun to watch the bandwagon fans jump off this time around. Much easier to see who the real fans are.

publius varrus
1 year 5 months ago

That’s exactly what I mean, though I daresay the Jays could have handled the PR mess better. Anyways, I don’t lose any sleep over Darvish pitching elsewhere. Whether they bid or not, whether the bid was reasonable/competitive or not is irrelevant to me.

I’m also pretty happy to go into this season with what they have. Sure, another starter and/or a 2B would have been great but not getting either isn’t the end of the world. As a matter of fact, you can’t even see it from there. Let’s just play ball.

publius varrus
1 year 5 months ago

I, for one, appreciate his communication policy. Having served in several leadership positions over the years, I resonate with the choice. I also have a pretty good understanding of how difficult it is to maintain in the face of criticism from those who feel, for some reason or other, that they ‘deserve’ to be in the know because of some imaginary claim they believe they have.

It’s also given me a greater appreciation for how difficult it is when info isn’t forthcoming. We tend to ‘ fill in the blanks,’ as it were. I expect that’s what the bandwagon crowd does, but the media’s intent seems to be a little more along the lines of ‘Keep info from us? We’ll show you…’