Pirates right-hander Chris Archer has been among the most prominent major leaguers in the news this week. Archer just underwent thoracic outlet syndrome surgery, meaning he won’t pitch until at least 2021. It also means his tenure could be done in Pittsburgh, which will have to decide between an $11MM club option and a $250K buyout next winter.
Archer’s surgery came as the latest disastrous development during his time with the Pirates, who made an ill-fated trade with the Rays to acquire him in July 2018. For the sake of Pirates fans, who have witnessed Archer struggle mightily in their favorite team’s uniform and have seen two of the players their club gave up flourish as Rays, we’re not going to recap that trade for the umpteenth time. But we are going to look back at other trades involving Archer. Long before he became a Pirate, Archer was part of a couple other notable deals.
First off, Archer entered the pros as a 17-year-old and a fifth-round pick of the Indians in 2006. Archer struggled to prevent runs as part of the Indians’ system through 2008, and after that season, the club traded him, righty Jeff Stevens and lefty John Gaub to the Cubs for infielder/outfielder Mark DeRosa. Cleveland didn’t get a full season out of DeRosa, whom the team flipped to the Cardinals in June 2009 after he batted a solid .270/.342/.457 in 314 plate appearances and 71 games as an Indian.
What of the Cubs’ return for DeRosa? Stevens combined for 37 1/3 innings of 6.27 ERA ball as a Cub from 2009-11. Gaub made even less of an impact in Chicago, with which he threw the only 2 2/3 innings of his career in 2011. Archer never appeared in the majors with the organization, but he turned around his fortunes as a Cubs minor leaguer and began cracking top 100 prospects lists as a member of the franchise. Still, that wasn’t enough for the Cubs to keep him.
After the 2010 season, when Archer topped out as Baseball America’s 27th-best prospect, the Cubs dealt him to the Rays in a blockbuster. Along with Archer, the Cubs surrendered shortstop prospect Hak-Ju Lee, catcher Robinson Chirinos, and outfielders Sam Fuld and Brandon Guyer for righty Matt Garza, outfielder Fernando Perez and lefty Zac Rosscup.
The Cubs got nothing from Perez, who never appeared in the majors with them, and very little from Rosscup (he posted a 5.32 ERA over 47 1/3 frames and parts of four seasons in their uniform). On the other hand, Garza was effective in Chicago from 2011-13. Though the team failed to push for the playoffs during that stretch, Garza turned in 372 2/3 innings of 3.45 ERA pitching with 8.6 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9. However, as a non-contender in July 2013, Chicago sent Garza – a soon-to-be free agent – to Texas for third baseman Mike Olt and the righty trio of Carl Edwards Jr., Justin Grimm and Neil Ramirez.
As for the Rays’ return, Lee never made it to MLB, even though he was a highly regarded prospect in his younger days. He’s now playing with the Samsung Lions of the Korea Baseball Organization. Chirinos has evolved into a fine offensive catcher, though he only took 60 plate appearances with the Rays in 2011 before they traded him to the Rangers two years later. Fuld played from 2011-13 in Tampa Bay, where he batted .230/.301/.326 in 653 attempts. Guyer appeared with the Rays in parts of four seasons from ’11-15 and slashed .255/.341/.396 over 978 PA.
While none of Lee, Chirinos, Fuld or Guyer offered especially valuable production as Rays, Archer thrived. He piled up 177 starts and amassed 1,063 innings of 3.69 ERA/3.48 FIP ball with 9.7 K/9 and 2.94 BB/9 as part of the team from 2011-18, during which he earned two All-Star nods and signed the six-year, $25.5MM extension he’s still playing under.
Many have been tough on Archer on account of what has been a rough run in Pittsburgh, but he’s the same player who once made the Rays look like geniuses for adding him. That makes his recent fall from grace all the more surprising, and it’s anyone’s guess whether a rebound will be in store in the wake of TOS surgery.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
he stinks. always has.
Thats just uh.. factually not true
how? give me one good reason how that is incorrect
He was a borderline ace from 2013-2015 and had pretty good seasons in 2016 and 2017. He’s really just fell off a cliff the past two. He has not stank his whole career. He’s had more star like seasons than bad seasons lol.
Chris Archer was a damn good pitcher any MLB team would have wanted on its roster durring his time with the Rays. Any owner who disagrees is flat out lying or insane, end of story.
give me one good reason that is not true
You can say he was overrated if you want but sub 4 ERA and solidly above average ERA+, FIP, XFIP, etc., etc. until he went to the Pirates. The statement was that he was always bad which is simply untrue. Maybe he was miscast as an ace but there were points when he showed ace potential.
But he’s sure been a big disappointment especially considering what Bucs gave up for him
Being a Jays fan, I’ve seen Archer carve up the AL East. And not many pitchers who “stink” can do that. Go ask Wade Miley.
What’s so special about the AL east? I mean, the red sox won a few championships over the years, but other than that… eh. Heck, AL central has sent more teams to the world series of late.
the orioles had a high power offense and were legit contenders in the first half of archer’s al East tenure. All four division rivals had decent offenses for much of that time too and play in offensive friendly parks
In the past 10 years, the AL East has seen a ton of offensive minded teams.
The central is just pure trash. Ask KC and Detroit how they’ve been doing!
I agree. Many here have no idea just how good the AL East was, along with the Orioles under Earl Weaver. That team was outstanding for 15-20y. Their tough luck also had really great teams like the NYY and Boston in the division, where every team sometimes won 90+ games a year and also.. lets not forget that in 1971 the WS champ Fightin O’s had *4* 20 game winners on that staff, something no team will ever have again can safely be said.
Umm, 1971?
Roberto
Blass
Small ballparks and typically potent lineups.
Over the last 10 years? Detroit was a pretty decent team early in the decade and KC has back to back WS appearances mid decade. But don’t let decency bias get in the way of your narrative.
From 2015-2017, he started no fewer than 33 games, and threw no fewer than 200 innings. He was striking out 10+ per 9 innings, and finished 5th in the Cy voting one year.
If that doesn’t clear the bar, in terms of quality pitching, few will.
Archer probably isn’t an ‘ace’ when you’re speaking in terms of being comparable to a Kershaw, Cole or Scherzer. Those are special talents, and not every team gets one. He was at one point, however, in that next tier down. He absolutely didn’t stink then.
Got some good use out of Garza, but really at the time Hendry should of started the rebuild instead of making that deal with the Rays.
Trading Derosa to the Indians to free up payroll to sign Milton Bradley is ultimately the downfall of Hendry run as GM
Jim Hendry had to be the worst GM of all time. I remember when he was obsessed with trying to acquire Brian Roberts. Who wasn’t never that good. At one point he had 5 2B on the team. Andy McPhail was pretty bad as the President of operations as well.
Remember when Hendry draft Hayden Simpson with their 1st round pick. Pure baseball genius! Sarcasm
Jim Hendry SSP drafted Javier Baez.
Article says Archer went to the Pirates in 2008, probably need to replace a number in there….
I doubt he was alive in 1008 dude
its 2018
It’s 2208.
3008?
I can’t believe that this site hasn’t posted anything about Marcell Ozuna being assaulted by his wife WITH A SOAP DISH. I hope he feels better and is ok. Honestly I chuckled though
Apparently he got knocked clean out…
(Sorry!)
Is that true. Equal rights and the law dictates that she must be charged with assault. Hitting another human with a weapon is not a joke.
Yeah,she got arrested. I feel bad for the dude and hope he’s ok. It can’t help but remind me of my sophomore year in college I had a situation that was a little different but still funny (now). This girl I had been dating for a grand total 5 or 6 weeks had come up to my apartment. I had invited her over for some dinner and a couple drinks. Right when she was done walking up the stairs to my floor she turns the corner and sees me hugging a women and saying “alright, I’ll see you next time. Love you.” She proceeded to reach into her cooler pull out two frozen ice packs and chucks them at my face hard. She made contact with one of them. The other women I was talking to was my older sister who drove a few hours to visit me at my place. I had been dating her for less then 2 months, she immediately attacked without asking me what was going on, she apparently thought I’d tell her to come over at a certain time and have the lady she though I was cheating with over at the same time. I immediately analyzed my choice of women after the event
Wait, you went to the troubling of analyzing your situation?
Lame stuff. The content has been good on this site overall, but this stuff has me so bored. Pure and simple—Chris Archer is washed up because he can’t locate all his pitches. I wouldn’t bet on him but I would give him props if he turns it around after healing. He’s still young. He was good, but he was mostly hype because he’s got a cool personality and he had his moments of elite pitching. So many flashes in the pan though! What about all the pitchers who just grind out slightly above average seasons and help teams win with their cost per out? I care about the truly elite and those quiet earners, not flashes in the pan. Archer has a lot to prove. Maybe he’ll sign a one year prove it deal? Way to maximize value Tampa Bay Rays!
I cant tell if youre ranting about the article, Archers pitching, or both
Archer was also hurt. How long, we don’t know. It also didn’t help that Pittsburgh tried to dictate what he threw, and how he pitches.
Look at Cole- he struggled to realize his potential under the Pirates’ tutelage. When he got out of Pittsburgh though, that lightbulb went off.
The coaching in Pittsburgh was extremely questionable this past season, on multiple levels.
Give the Cubs credit for the foresight to trade for Mike Olt, who kept some guy named Kris Bryant down on the farm an extra 10 days or so, to, you know, work on his defense….wink….
Chris Archer is a really good person.
It’s irrelevant to his trade value, but, just for the record.
this is true, I hate it when I see a guy like Archer, or a Puig get roasted so thoroughly when they sincerely donate so much of their time and money to local charities and projects. Puig’s not even in Cincinnati any more and he’s still seeing his projects and people through, and Archers involvement with the Boys and Girls Club is well documented. Lots of cases like this though, through the distorted lens of professional sports.
If you follow the thread to its end, you’ll find that in 2007, Matt Garza (along with Jason Bartlett) was acquired by Tampa Bay from Minnesota for Delmon Young, who the then-Devil Rays took first overall in the 2003 draft.
So by drafting Delmon Young, the Rays got the services of Bartlett, Garza, Archer, Guyer, Fuld, Chrinos, Meadows, Glasnow, and Baz.
A starting shortstop and pitcher on an AL pennant team to a good-sometimes-great pitcher with a few role players to finally a promising young pitcher and outfielder.
Not bad for Tampa Bay. Not bad at all.
Yeah the Rays have been nothing short of geniuses in the front office. A lot of credit must be directed to the player development staff and scouts as well. If that organization could ever get an owner that would spend 100+ million on player salaries, they’d compete for not just a wild card position, but they’d be a powerhouse like the dodgers have become.
The deep pocket teams & their last world series win. Money might make a team a powerhouse but not a world series winner.
Dodgers 1988
Yankees 2009
Red Sox 2018 but 2019 not so hot
Dodgers were 5th in payroll in 1988 with their highest paid player hurt for the playoff run. They had a $15-mil payroll. Times have changed.
If the Rays are getting rid of a player you need to ask “why?” If they’re asking for a player of yours you need to ask what you’re doing wrong.
Assuming that we accept what you’ve said as correct and the Rays have a fantastic front office full of geniuses, but they’ve haven’t won a World Series (or been to one in 12 years), then what is wrong/broken with baseball that means being the smartest and shrewdest isn’t even enough? That would tell me it’s not about talent and skill, it’s about something else. Either way, it clearly means it’s not a fair playing field.
You could say the same about the A’s. All the knowledge and smarts but can’t even get to a WS this millennium.
It’s a narrative thing too. Teams Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Oakland, and others always feel like mid-major college basketball teams. We never expect them to win, so when they actually do win we call their front offices and coaches geniuses while teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Nationals fire their managers after making the postseason.
It’s why when Andrew Friedman brings his Rays philosophy to the Dodgers, they’re instantly in three straight NLCS and two World Series. That’s not even LAD’s biggest benefit. It’s clearly their drafting, IFA signing, and development. They’re not going away anytime soon because of that. It gives them a larger window.
The easiest way is to implement a cap floor, but that probably means a salary cap which isn’t happening.
Agreed Brandon. The other major sports have a system of some equality. Baseball isn’t much fun to watch. Dodgers could make a bad trade (maybe o’neil cruz for Watson!?) Like the archer deal and it would be a blip because they can buy international players, buy draft picks, sell bad contracts with prospects and cash, buy free agents( they will get some players to bite on that hypothesized massive money on a short term deal) pirates make a bad trade and they’re out of the running for a few years. I have hope with the new regime honestly. Yes, small markets still win, but the odds (which in sports isn’t an EQUAL matchup everything?) Are against them. I mean the effects of not being able to afford an ace are massive. Gerrit Cole DID NOT TRY his hardest with the bucs. He knew to take it easy. Yes he tried sometimes, but ask Boras himself. He doesn’t want his players (income) to even play for small market teams or get drafted by them at all. It’s a broken system that large markets control. Equality in sports and America as a whole is a must.
No teams are allowed to buy draft picks. Just because owners set a budget and refuses to pay top dollar for free agents is not the fault of other teams who choose to pay to improve their teams chance of winning. No teams buy international players either. How you can tell if a player is trying his hardest is awesome. You should apply as a baseball scout for any team and with your inside knowledge on players trying or not; you could really go places.
Teams do sign international amateurs and do pay posting fees for international players who aren’t considered amateurs. Think guys like Darvish, Ohtani, Dice-K, etc.
Not sure what JaysThoughts meant. I was just referring to the fact that more money gives a greater room for error. You don’t need to win by outspending everyone, but Tampa Bay, Oakland, and Pittsburgh never seem to be given a fighting chance unless they absolutely rob a player’s earning power with a cheap extension early in their career.
Archer is a POS
The grass is purple. Making a statement doesn’t make it true, unless you can support it. Any insights as to why you feel this way?
Pay attention how he has started brawls by hitting batters. Well you my my like violence, so you like the guy….. Right?
Chris Archer has accomplished more at age 31 than his critics will in their entire lives.
Although we’re all baseball nerds, we’re not all losers.
“we’re not going to recap that trade for the umpteenth time”
you did it just two days ago! Please tell me this was intended with a lot of irony that you were trying to appeal to how much perspective and restraint you possess when you say you don’t need to address something that has been done too often… like by yourself two days ago.
I think Chris’s showman ship has gotten the unfavorable thoughts about him.
I was so happy when the Ray’s traded him away. I never understood why they would have him pitch opening day when he usually had the worst record.