Jan. 6: The Giants have formally announced Conforto’s two-year deal. The opt-out provision in his contract is contingent on plate appearances, Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area reports (Twitter link). Conforto will trigger the ability to opt out upon reaching 350 plate appearances.
Dec. 23: The Giants and outfielder Michael Conforto are in agreement on a two-year, $36MM deal. Conforto will be able to opt out after the first season. The deal is pending a physical. He is represented by the Boras Corporation.
Conforto, 30 in March, was arguably the best upside play remaining on the free agent market based on his excellent run of results from 2017 through 2020. However, it’s not without risk for the Giants, as Conforto had a disappointing season in 2021 and then missed the 2022 season entirely due to shoulder surgery.
In that 2017-2020 stretch, Conforto got into 467 games for the Mets and launched 97 home runs. His 24.4% strikeout rate was slightly higher than average but his 12.7% walk rate was well beyond par. His overall offensive output resulted in a batting line of .265/.369/.495, which was 33% above league average by measure of wRC+. That 133 wRC+ was in the top 25 among all qualified hitters in baseball during that time.
In 2021, Conforto’s production dipped, most notably in the power department. He only hit 14 home runs in 125 games after hitting 27 or more in the previous three full seasons. He finished the year with a .232/.344/.384 slash, which was still a bit above average as his wRC+ was 106, but a noticeable drop-off from his prior form. Despite that down year, the Mets felt comfortable extending him an $18.4MM qualifying offer and Conforto felt comfortable rejecting.
He went into free agency looking for a lucrative multi-year offer but didn’t secure it prior to the December 1 lockout. He then injured his shoulder while training during that lockout and eventually required surgery. Given his uncertain health status and attachment to draft pick forfeiture from rejecting the qualifying offer, that scrubbed any chance of him securing a significant contract. Once the draft passed and he was no longer tied to any kind of penalties, there were some rumors of teams considering signing him to a short deal while hoping his shoulder could heal enough to aid a stretch run, but that never materialized.
Conforto then entered this offseason as a high-risk, high-reward play. He’s coming off an entire missed season and a poor showing in 2021, but was one of the best hitters in baseball prior to that. MLBTR predicted he would land a one-year, $15MM deal, hoping to prove his health and return to free agency for a more lucrative deal a year from now. Conforto’s agent, Scott Boras, said that his client would be looking for a two-year deal with an opt-out akin to the one he negotiated between Carlos Rodón and the Giants. The situations were somewhat analogous since Rodón was also an extremely talented player with health concerns. However, he was at least coming off a strong 2021 season when he secured that two-year, $44MM deal with the Giants, so it seemed like Conforto would have to settle for something beneath that given his greater uncertainty. He has now indeed secured the deal he was looking for, with the Giants again proving to be the team willing to give out the desired opt-out. Conforto got a lesser guarantee than Rodón, as expected, but has done quite well for himself in getting a higher salary than predicted.
Despite Conforto’s uncertain status, he still proved to be quite popular this offseason. The Rangers, Blue Jays, Mets, Rockies, Cubs, Marlins, Mariners and Astros were all connected to him at various points in the offseason. Some of those clubs ended up addressing their outfields with other players, but those that still have designs on upgrades will find limited options remaining on the open market. Some of the top unsigned free agent outfielders are Jurickson Profar, David Peralta, Trey Mancini and AJ Pollock.
For the Giants, they went into this offseason looking to be aggressive. They followed up their 107-win campaign in 2021 with a disappointing 81-81 finish in 2022. Since their future payroll was fairly wide open and they were looking for significant improvements, they were frequently connected to marquee free agents such as Aaron Judge and the “big four” shortstops: Carlos Correa, Trea Turner, Xander Bogaerts and Dansby Swanson. President of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi did little to temper expectations, telling media at the beginning of the offseason that “from a financial standpoint, there would be nobody that would be out of our capability.”
The early stages of the club’s offseason seemed to orbit around their pursuit of Judge and the club reportedly offered him a contract of $360MM, but he eventually secured that same guarantee from the Yankees and accepted. The Giants then pivoted to Correa and agreed to a 13-year, $350MM deal, though that ended up falling through in unprecedented fashion. The Giants flagged something in Correa’s medical that gave them pause, later reported to be his right leg, postponing the official signing just as it was to be announced. Ron Kroichick of the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Correa had even begun house shopping with his family in the area. But the health concerns were enough that they allowed him to walk away from the pact, freeing him to secure a 12-year, $315MM deal with the Mets shortly thereafter.
Since all of the other top free agents were already off the board, there were no remaining avenues for the Giants to make the big splash that many expected. By turning to Conforto, they arguably did the best they could among the remaining free agents. However, there’s a certain absurdity to the club walking into a public relations nightmare by letting Correa slip away at the last second, only to see their two biggest free agent splashes be Conforto, who missed the entire 2022 season, and Mitch Haniger, who has only twice played 100 games in a season due to various injuries.
Regardless of the optics, the Giants were reportedly looking to add two outfielders this offseason and have accomplished that. Conforto has played center field in the past but not since 2019 and he wasn’t graded well there at that time. The Giants will most likely be looking at Conforto and Haniger in the corners, leaving center field to Mike Yastrzemski and Austin Slater. That will likely push LaMonte Wade Jr. into spending more time at first base, potentially platooning with J.D. Davis, where the club will be facing the loss of Brandon Belt.
Assuming an even distribution of the money, this contract brings the club’s payroll up to $181MM, per Roster Resource. That’s well beyond last year’s Opening Day payroll of $154MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, though they’ve gone above $200MM in the past. Their $197MM competitive balance tax calculation is also well shy of the $233MM luxury tax threshold. That could leave them room to maneuver if they have their eyes on further additions.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported the two sides were in agreement on a two-year, $36MM deal. Buster Olney of ESPN first noted the opt-out provision.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Did they check out his physical report first?
He stubbed his toe in the 7th grade. They’re calling it off
Lol. That’s pretty good.
I heard it was a chipped tooth from 5th grade that called it back. The same exact way as Lloyd Christians’ chipped tooth. Ironically, I chipped my tooth the exact away way as a kid. Twice. Lol.
Bart Harley Jarvis
There’s an issue with his tonsils.
They weren’t removed as a kid, is my guess.
So they pivot from a guy who seemingly had no issues to a guy who DEFINITELY had an issue so how’s this physical gonna go? Some people never learn. LOL
It’s only 2 year contract not 13 years. Giants ownership got cold feet with Correa. Medical companies concern is an excuse to void agreement. Very disappointing.
I get it, it’s a really bad case of ringworm.
Unclemike1526, Right, because the doctors on the Giants medical staff are just plain stupid, and can’t see what’s obvious to you without you even looking at his medical report.
It’s only 1 year, if he performs well at all. Like Rodon. This front office is an embarrassment
Hopefully for his and Giants’ sake, his labrum is good. That dislocated shoulder from several years ago was a likely concern.
Congrats, you’ve made the ‘most creative quote’ of the day. Boras is really enjoying his “Vendetta” (for Correa’s rejection) – as he gets a huge commission here for representing a player that won’t play more than 50 days in the next two seasons…he’s just ‘”damaged goods”. Meanwhile, Giants go from bad to worst !!
Giants offensive are clearly improved. Pitching is slightly worse.
Imagine if we had a front office that made both better…
Nuttin’ like them Giant doctors!
Giants tomorrow: “We kidd, we kidd.”
With them it’s April’s fool everyday. But did the check his medicals?
I thought the same thing. Unless it was written after the response. The first paragraph; last sentence: “The deal is pending a physical.”
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
If I was the Giants, this would be out of my Comfort-o zone…
Breaking news: Giants just found out Conforto had the chicken pox when he was 6 years old. No deal.
He’ll be a Met again by New Years Day
Nice! Now get to look forward to recycled “lol did they check his physical?!” jokes over and over and over again now, just like we did with the Orioles in 2016 to go along with the overused “Padres offered 10 years and $200mm” jokes. What fun!
Good that Boros would work with the Giants. Giants have lots of money after Correa signing fell through.
Amazing that Boras would still deal with Farhan. It’s just to use the Giants to get Conforto more $$ next year.
Well he did use the Giants to get 315m out of the Mets. If you add Conforto’s 36m =351m
They also were probably along in negotiations with Conforto when the story broke.
Conforto should reach 350 plate appearances as long as Zaidi & Kapler suddenly decide to make him a platoon player.
The Guardians finished as 1st runner-up for Conforto. They’ll now pivot to Andrew McCutcheon for a righted handed bat
Man what a tough off season for Cleveland. They’ve missed on everyone but bell
Front office would like you to know they finished first in the Mike Zunino sweepstakes as well.
Conforto is Left handed
If it’s Jon Heyman reporting it’s gotta be true!
Hitters coming off of shoulder surgery aren’t the same ( Bellinger)
Zaidi is now shopping the bargain bin of the free agency market and its ugly
So, now the Giants after cowardly backing out of the Correa deal because of medical issue from 8 years ago. An issue w/ a player that has posted the highest WAR at his position for he last 8 years have signed an outfielder coming off of shoulder surgery.
He’ll play alongside Mitch Haniger , another Zaidi free agent overpay coming off of recent injury. Who the Mariners didn’t even give a qualifying offer to A guy who got his right nut blown up by a Verlander FB then had undergo 3 additional scrotum surgeries to repair his Ruptures Nut .
Geez, Zaidi and the Giants are the laughing stock of baseball
That seems like a lot of cash for someone who hasn’t played in a bit. 18 a year is steep
Have you been awake this offseason?
right! I’m half surprised he didn’t get an 8 year deal!
They HAD to sign him.
@rondon, I agree. They had to do something after missing Judge and blowing Correa.
@astros yeah just seemed high seeing Haniger and Benintendi getting less. But I guess Bellinger got 17.5 so I guess it’s in line with what’s tossed out. I was thinking someone would give him 1 at 15 or so.
Joc got $19.5.
I thought he would get a Gallo deal. It seems like Boras got him a good chunk of his money back from last year.
Giants will have to overpay going forward after the stunt with Correa.
Lol hope he passes his physical
We won’t know if he passes his physical till next week. Then his contract will be voided, and he sign with the Mets. Where have I seen this before?
Thank God he’s not coming back to the Mets
We didn’t need him anyways. Maybe one more bat and Hendricks from white sox and call it an offseason
Dont need any more bats! One more relief arm and thats it
Yeah, time to let Baty/Vientos/Alvarez make their mark
@metsfan1992, now you’ve become downright greedy! Sheesh!
Yeah it’s worse. The Mets signed Conforto-Light for 8 freakin years.
“Conforto Light” who was 4+ fWAR last season? okerrrrrrr
Okay, that’s a good one. Justifying one good year for an eight year contract during his age 30-38 years. Awesome. We gotta be smarter fans than that.
I think Nimmo was definitely the biggest overpay of the off-season. It will have zero ramifications for a team willing to have a 500 million dollar payroll.
Let me start by saying I am not a Nimmo fan and thought his signing was a bad deal for the Mets. I also think it was in line with where the market has been this offseason.
Nimmo is going into his age 30 season
Conforto is going into his age 30 season
Their birthdays are 26 days apart
Nimmo played 151 games last season and 243 over the past 2 years
Conforto played zero games last season and 125 over the past 2 years
Nimmo has a 131 OPS + over the past 2 seasons
Conforto has a 118 OPS+ over the last 2 seasons he played
Nimmo has an 8.6 WAR over the past 2 seasons
5.3 per 650 PA
Conforto has a 2.9 WAR over the past 2 seasons he played
2.7 per 650 PA
Nimmo has a 0 DRS over the past 3 seasons
Conforto has a -5 DRS over the last 3 seasons he played
Nimmo has an 8 OAA over the past 3 seasons
Conforto has a 3 OAA over the past 3 seasons
Nimmo has been a better hitter and defensive OF.
Nimmo is healthy today
Conforto got hurt rehabbing from a 2021 injury and missed all of 2022. Currently he is throwing soft toss from 120 feet and is able to swing a bat but not yet hitting a baseball either off a tee, in the cage, or in batting practice sessions. Its yet to be seen if he will be ready to play to start the 2023 season.
Set the total amount aside. Which one of those seems like a guy to invest any money in at all?
If its my money, I would give Conforto a prove it deal. 1 year $8 million with a $20 million mutual option and a $2 million buyout. If he plays like crud, he gets $10 million guaranteed and the team is not on the hook for any more money.
To me this deal is so pro player that it must be a result of the Giants trying to make it up to Boras in some small way after the debacle with Correa. It doesn’t make sense any other way. Conforto has still not shown that he will be able healthy enough to play in 2023 yet.
Just an FYI, mutual options are meaningless. They aren’t exercised 97% of the time, not to mention that if both sides agree a player is worth a 1/20m deal the following year, nothing prevents them from agreeing on that in practice. It’s a fig leaf.
@Mac Attack 100% agree, least clutch hitter I’ve ever seen. Strikesout whenever a guy is in scoring position. You know a player isn’t good when they get hit by a pitch and decide to run around the bases cheering and sticking their tongue out
Salaries are becoming outrageous and likely won’t change anytime soon
It’s not the salaries, it’s the profits of the owners that are skyrocketing. Can we cap that?
Don’t buy tickets or merchandise. Cancel your cable subscription. That’s the only way.
I don’t buy tickets or merchandise. I buy the MLB package for $5 every year. I think I’m done with that now too since the price of wasting your time watching this product now is not worth it.
For Love of the Game
I don’t know if the owners’ profits are skyrocketing, but salaries sure are! That’s just what happens in a lucrative business. Why do you hate success so much, angelscamp?
@For Love of the Game Baseball in its current form is only this profitable thanks to its unique antitrust exemption.
Why do you love monopolies so much, For?
Why do you hate capitalism?
Oh my goodness the evil owners making profits. Big profits. That’s so wrong.., what will they do with the money?
That’s right.., put it under their mattress so no one can touch it, see it, or use it.
I really don’t understand this line of thinking. What do you think happens with the money, the insane profits the owners make?
It either sits in the bank so they can loan it out to small businesses or they buy stock in companies or reinvest in their own companies or buy crap that people make and have jobs, or whatever. They buy airplanes and Teslas, Lamborghinis and fancy boats.
What is wrong with insane profits you people? Wow what has this country become where a guy can’t strive for insane profits? Those evil owners my goodness.
Gary. You’re so naive.
Windowpane, Yes you’re probably right !!
Windowpane, you are so enlightened!
Yes. Yes, I am.
You want to cap how much money a person can make?
Wow. People in this country are so lost. Schumpeter was right.
Owners are in business to make money, they aren’t charitable organizations.
While I believe players should be paid appropriately for their talents, I also believe owners shouldn’t be giving money away just because a player thinks he’s owed more than what he’s worth
I don’t think the owners would accept that either. So I think they’re doing just fine paying what looks like obscene amounts of money and bringing home their share as well.
communist. jk : )
I might be wrong but aren’t these skyrocketing salaries part of the whole inflation thing as with the other stuff that skyrocketing in dollars? Not sure but it seems like it.
Gary, I think it demonstrates that the owners are SWIMMING in cash.
You’re on a roll windowpane. Right again.
I’m only making $18MM this year! How will I afford a dozen eggs?!
Don’t worry about the eggs. You can’t find them most days anyhow. Do powdered eggs cost more? Then Conforto might have a case?
Overpay. Looks like a desperation move by the Giants after losing out on some others.
Cody Bellinger got $17.5MM after his horrible year. I’d say that would be Conforto’s floor and he also had the luxury of a full year recovering from any other wear-and-tear injuries besides his shoulder. My money is on Conforto having a better year than Belli.
Bellinger plays gold glove defense at a premium position, bit of a difference
Belli was the worst hitter in baseball, i’d absolutely take a flyer on Conforto instead
He worst hitter in baseball was Austin Hedges.
A 2 year deal for a guy who didn’t play last year and at 18 million a year is desperation.
Not enough to make up for the horrendous lack of offense. Not even close.
Giants starting pitching is webb and 4 other guys. Offense is not their biggest problem.
“4 other guys”? Stripling was great last year and is one of the best swingmen in the game, and Manaea, deSclafani, Wood, and Cobb are not far removed from successful seasons.
You can argue their rotation isn’t as strong without Rodon and doesn’t inspire much confidence (and rightfully so), but using shorthands like “4 other guys” is just lazy.
@disadvantage compared to the other teams in the division their rotation is very weak. Only Cobb was decent last year. Did you even look at how bad the other 3 were last year?
SJ, you hit the nail on the head. Bellinger plays great D at a premium position.
Conforto plays on the IL.
Lazy but true or it would not have struck such a chord with you.
lazy would be thinking somebody is a great pitcher because you remember what they did 3 years ago without looking up their stats from last year.
@arc – lazy is being called out on your laziness, then responding “no UR lazy”! Even your brother in arms didn’t defend your laziness.
@baseball – struck a nerve in that so jaded by people making lazy points about the Giants being bad, and in this case, not even trying. If you’re trying to pin me on the fact that he may be right the rotation won’t be great, I’m fully prepared for that.
@ disadvantage what brother in arms? i do not have a brother in arms that is crazy talk.
I just pointed out that the giants rotation has only 1 ace in it and you got offended about it. I was looking at starting pitching for last year and noticed how bad their pitching was last year and they did not pick up a top pitcher while letting their best one leave. You shouldn’t be so sensitive about somebody pointing out that the giants rotation is not very good.
ARC 2, It isn’t that you said SF has only one ace. I agree with that, but the problem is saying their rotation is weak compared to others in the NLW when it’s obvious you haven’t looked at SD’s projected staff. And I assume when you said “other teams in the division” you were not referring to the Rockies, or D’backs, because that would be absurd.
Conforto was even worse of a hitter season because he couldn’t hit at all. His BA was 0.000 in zero AB.
I say arson hicks. Ugh.
Those are the 6 guys projected to be the Padres opening day starting rotation as of today.
Last season they had a combined 3.27 ERA for the season.
Lugo made no starts last season and has a 4.35 ERA in 38 starts over 194.1 IP as a starter over his 7 year career.
Martinez had a 4.30 ERA as a starter last season. 10 starts, 54.1 IP Overall he had a 3.47 ERA in 106.1 IP
Morejon only pitched 34.1 innings period last season. His first back from TJ surgery.
That is still a strong group. A 3.27 ERA and 3.33 FIP would have ranked 3rd in ERA and 2nd in FIP last season.
Manaea, Clevinger, and Gore had a 4.65 combined ERA in 63 starts and threw 342.1 IP. The starts they made are the ones that Martinez, Lugo, Morejon and others will need to make in 2023. It should not be hard to replicate or improve on the 4.65 ERA they had in those 63 starts.
Tab the problem is the Padres can win without needing to pitch a shut out every game with all the fire power in the lineup. Giants lineup needs pitchers to pitch great all season long. I was not referring to Rockies and D-backs because to win the division its going through dodgers and padres. Rockies have the worst pitching in the league.
ARC 2, Fine, so let’s revisit what you wrote, which was, “compared to the other teams in the division their rotation is very weak.”. If you wanted to make the point that SD is loaded with hitters, you went about it in an odd way.
Tad if i was going to compare within the division i would put on starting rotation Dodgers, Padres, D-backs, all above Giants rotation. Only rotation weaker is Rockies.
ARC 2, Then I strongly disagree. I agree about LA. Who’s better between SD and SF is debatable, but I think the Giants have the advantage.
But, where are you seeing better pitching in AZ? Last season the staff on the whole ranked 21st, the Giants ranked 10th. Their SPs had a combined 4.05 ERA, compared to the Giants 3.80. So far this offseason the D’backs have not done anything to improve that staff either. Since I doubt many would agree with you, saying AZ has a better rotation smacks of just being argumentative.
Manaea has a no hitter under his belt and all of the SP have postseason experience
Let’s take a look at how 2023 is shaping up as of today
Padres 6 man rotation
Combined 3.27 ERA and 3.33 FIP in 2022
Giants 5 man rotation
Combined 3.88 ERA and 3.96 FIP in 2022
Pads Fans, I Think you need to replace Wood with DeSclafani. Disco is projected by BB Ref to have a 3.87 ERA, it was 3.17 in 2021. Wood is projected to have a 4.37 ERA. Manaea’s 2022 is an outlier from most of the rest of his career, and I expect a rebound. That would narrow the gap
I had previously written that it was debatable which had the better staff, and if others think SD, I have no problem with that. I think SF will be somewhat better, but who knows? We’ll see at the end of the season.
But what I was taking exception to was @ARC 2, originally calling the rotation weak compared to the rest of the division, and ranking them 4th in the NLW behind the D’backs. Even if SD pitches better than the Giants, it still doesn’t mean the Giant’s staff is weak.
#PadsFans – Manea signed with the promise he’ll start. Stripling had no such guarantee. Desclafani and Wood are starters. Hjelle and Harrison are close
Desclafini had a 6.63 ERA last season.
Their projection is he throws 86 innings in 2023 and gets 1 save. Doesn’t sound like a starter.
Desclafini pitched in 5 games last year. No one thinks he will be a starter in 2023.
Because of an injury and surgery. He’s fully recovered now and DeSclafani is expected to be in the starting rotation this year.
BaseballisLife, You obviously don’t understand how projections work. Any player, losing a virtual season to injury, after posting bad numbers trying to pitch through it, is going to have a bad projection. Until DeSclafani proves he’s healthy, the projection is going to assume he isn’t, and the projection is a guess somewhere between his ’21, and his ’22 season. That guess always assumes regression over career numbers as well.
Note that the projection sees him pitching only 86 innings. The 19 IP in ’22 is factored in. But he’s only 1 year removed from 167 IP with a 130 ERA+. I guarantee if he’s healthy, and all indications are that he is, he’ll far exceed that projection.
Most importantly, anyone that’s watched baseball for more than a few years, knows that projections don’t mean jack.
Pitchers can typically go twice the innings they had the previous season. How many did Desclafini throw in 2022?
I apparently understand them better than you do. Pitchers typically are allowed to go no more than double the innings they pitched the previous season. How many did Desclafini throw last year?
The Giants stretched him out in 2021 after 33 IP in 2020. How did that work out in 2022? He was injured you say? Exactly.
He won’t be making 30 starts in 2023. Maybe half that. Which is exactly what the projection say he will do. Imagine that. The projections you brought up verify my point. But now that the projections you brought up agree with me they suddenly don’t mean jack.
Give it a rest.
Wood is going to make more starts than Desclafini and he is a starter.
Tad, weren’t you the one that brought up the projections. Either they are worthwhile and they confirm your argument or they are BS and you are wrong about Desclafini starting and pitching well.
From the team standpoint, on December 24th Zaidi said that Desclafini would not have a full workload in 2023. During that interview he said that they would discuss exactly what his workload would be once they see how he is during spring training, but that they were going to take it slow with the often injured 32 year old.
Before that I had been campaigning for the Angels to trade for him. He had a 4.21 ERA since coming back from TJ and I was reasoning that he had pitched well in 2021 sandwiched by injury filled and poor performing seasons so he might rebound to give us 120-140 innings of mid 4 ERA starts, but Zaidi convinced me that the Angels should target another 6th starter.
outinleftfield, Where did I cite projections in any post? Feel free tp quote me. I only mentioned them in response to @BaseballisLife, who seems to put value in them. I don’t, and haven’t, since seeing how inaccurate they can be after looking at them for several seasons.
BaseballisLife, Twice DeSclafani’s innings is only 38 innings, so what you say is typical is just silly.
And are you saying the reason DeSclafani got injured is because he pitched 134 innings more in 2021 than 2020? No one pitched more than 84 innings in 2020, and only 3 guys pitched more than 80. Why didn’t Gausman get injured since he pitched 140.2 innings more. Almost every pitcher in MLB threw 100+ innings more in 2021 than the season before.
I only brought up the BB Ref projection since they are based on recent performance. I don’t believe they are ever a very accurate prediction, especially in terms of IP. I regret using them as short-hand instead of citing their recent actual numbers.
Tad, “BaseballisLife, You obviously don’t understand how projections work.” “Wood is projected to have a 4.37 ERA.” “Disco is projected by BB Ref to have a 3.87 ERA.” You brought them up before as well. Obviously you put stock in them.
The Giants are not a good rotation. Wood is just bad. 4.53 ERA over the last 3 seasons. Baggarly said that Desclafini is expected to be a swingman. He has more inside info than either of us so I will believe him. Its extremely rare that a pitcher improves on his 3 year averages coming off serious tendon injury to his drive leg that required season ending surgery. The Giants are obviously not willing to make that bet because they made several depth signings. Adding Descalafini to the rotation Padsfan laid out does not make that Giants rotation better. What was an outlier for Manaea was 2021. 2020 was 4.57 ERA and 2022 was 4.96. His 3 year average is 4.47 ERA and 90 ERA+. That is who he is now.
MLB had a record number of pitching injures in 2022. The reason being cited by many experts is the increase in innings thrown from 2020 to 2021. While double the innings is not a hard and fast rule, especially for veterans, its a great one for young pitchers that most teams won’t go far beyond.
outinleftfield, You’re right. I stupidly quoted a projection even though I have little faith in them. I got lazy. I should have cited recent performance, but saw that projection first, and used that, since it was simpler. I regret it, and feel pretty stupid.
That said, This was written 12/24/22 on MLB.com
“Despite losing Rodón to the Yankees, the Giants’ rotation is looking like a strength, particularly following the addition of Manaea and Stripling. Still, there’s some uncertainty regarding the outlook for DeSclafani, who made only five starts before undergoing season-ending right ankle surgery in July.
DeSclafani logged a career-best 3.17 ERA over 31 starts for the Giants in 2021, so he could play a big role in mitigating the departure of Rodón if he’s healthy. Earlier this month, Zaidi said DeSclafani’s rehab is going well, as strength and conditioning coach Brad Lawson recently visited him and sent encouraging video back to the Giants.
DeSclafani appears to be on track to be ready for Spring Training, but Zaidi said the Giants will likely tread carefully with the 32-year-old veteran following his injury-marred 2022 campaign.
“It wasn’t arm-related, but again, he just didn’t throw a lot of innings last year, so at some point we’ll have to have the conversation about what a workload looks like,” Zaidi said. “It may be a full workload. We just aren’t there yet. He feels really good and everything is on track for him to be a full go next year”.”
My guess is Wood will start the season in the rotation, but DeSclafani will replace him relatively early.
As for Manaea, you’re cherry-picking 2 nonconsecutive seasons as a baseline. Plus, 2020 was a small sample season, 54 IP. For his 6 seasons with the A’s, 727 IP, he had a 106 ERA+. Not great but above league average. The 158 IP in SD would appear to be the outlier.
Conforto’s floor should be league minimum after one terrible season and then missing the net whole season.
the money quote form the Yahoo article:
Conforto injured the shoulder while working out in January and is still rehabbing, although Boras recently said that he’s throwing up to 120 feet and has full extension with his swing.
sweet, the Giants new .230 hitting right fielder can throw up to 120 feet after a year of rehab, inspiring
Something something physical
Career .255 hitter getting 18 million a season? These contracts are getting outrageous.
At this I’m going to put my name in the free agent pool
That’s what I’ve been saying!
Having a .255 batting average, a .355 OBP and an .824 OPS is better than having a .270 AVG, .340 OBP and .790 OPS..
It’s almost like batting average isn’t everything. Crazy, right??
Edwin Encaracion had a very similar slash line, and he was one of the best power hitters in baseball for a decade.
Edwin had an OPS of 870 for nearly a decade straight with 300 more homeruns. Not even a close comparison.
@Ryan Your example also assumes a higher ISO and SLG. While batting average isn’t everything, none of those walks turn into extra base hits
Conforto SLG is 473 since he became a FT player in 2017. When healthy, he’s very good. Still seems like an overpay coming off missing a year and a bad 2021, but when he’s right he’s better than a lot of people think. Nimmo is the one whose ops is driven more by walks.
Keywords, “when healthy”. He has played in 68% of the possible games since 2016.
2015 was his rookie season and he was not called up until July so left that off. Just included his season on the roster or IL on opening day
11.5 WAR over the last 6 full seasons played is directly due to being injured so much. 2020 was not a full season. 2022 was and he missed all of it.
What you should expect from him is a repeat of 2021. League average hitting (100 OPS+ and .729 OPS) in 100-120 games while playing below league average defense at a corner OF spot. Expect anymore and you will be disappointed .
He didn’t play FT until 2017. I would expect more than 2021, I’d think closer to 2018 while he shakes off rust like he did that year. About an 800 OPS, 120 OPS+. We’ll see how it goes.
Conforto was on the opening day roster in 2016 and played the same amount of games that season that he did in 2017. He was full time. He just had two trips to the IL that kept him out of the lineup.
I remember when “good” players could not only hit with power, but hit for average. If the walks are equal, I’d rather watch Rod Carew or Wade Boggs hit, than Joey Gallo or Mike Kingman. Singles are better than Ks. Keep the line moving. HRs don’t make rallies.
Not that I disagree with ridiculous contracts, but citing average is pretty useless.
Von it depends on what the player is as to how important average is. A slugger will usually have a lower average and a singles table setter will need a higher average. The biggest problem with using stats is trying to use the same stats for every player. Stats require nuance and neither the old school guys nor the analytics nerds seem interested in using it.
Yes. This exactly. Stats in a vacuum are meaningless.
on base percentage is a superior stat to batting average in basically every single way and measures the same thing but better.
Good point. Maybe this is one of cashmans issues as well.
The best handful of players in the world are getting $35-43M. The best few hundred players in the world are getting $10-20M. After extrapolating by the several billion people out there, you’d probably get $80
They had money to flash at someone.
Nov 2023, people will remember how well the Giants made off by not signing Judge or Correa.
By Nov 2023 Correa and Judge will still be playing on an elite level. Maybe 2026.
Giants are not a Judge or Correa away from being a WS contender. It doesn’t matter if the two have good seasons, the Giants will still suck.
The Mets are closer to winning and will reap the benefits of prime Correa. Likewise for the Yanks.
Giants should allocate the money towards multiple positions. Overpay, but have a feeling Conforto will break out.
2023 will the transition year of sorts…The Braves will finish third, Dodgers will finish second, and the Astros will finish second behind the Mariners. The new dogs will take over.
Besides, even if they did manage to get Judge or Correa, they still wouldn’t finish ahead of even one of the Dodgers and the Padres, let alone both of them.
steven st croix
I don’t see Houston finishing second to Seattle. They are just better and know how to win.
No reason to think Atlanta swill finish 3rd; swanson wasn’t all that good and if we could get a healthy Albies and Acuna more than make up for the losses. Atlanta will be in post season
Albies is no better hitter than Swanson. In fact, Swanson is slightly better and player.
Acuna’s resurgence will defin help minimize the terrible off season; however, I don’t see it happening. Just like last season, if Harris and Strider keep up, the Braves will stay afloat. The Braves lost their two leaders in back to back seasons. Sometimes it is the off the field dynamics that make a team a sustainable winner.
*Swanson is a better hitter and player than Albies
NL East is going to be a gauntlet. Poor Marlins and Nationals.
It will come down to health which favors Philly in my opinion. But they are flawed defensively.
So I have no idea, lol.
The AL West is still Houston’s in 2023 but Seattle, Texas, and Angels are all improving.
I expect a closer division in 2023 and a dog fight in 2024.
A great way to remain mired in mediocrity is to never try to remedy the situation. Correa or Judge was supposed to be the first step in them remedy.
Angel wont make it to 590 at end of 2023.
This is a rational take. I like it.
Nah, us Giants fans will remember we saw Donavon Walton and Tommy LaStella and a bunch of dudes who have no business being on a major league roster get way more at bats than they should as we finish in 4th place.
You won’t see anything. You have bailed out them twice already this free agency period.
Stuart Fairchilds says hi!
For the dolts pointing out the health… 2 years is quite a bit different than 13…
H E Pennypacker
…and a mediocre player is quite a bit different than an MVP level player…
3 years ago MetsFan22 proclaimed Conforto was as good as Harper. Never forget. And no, I don’t judge all Mets fans based on MetsFan22.
H E Pennypacker
Hey Von! I remember, trust me lol. Three years is a long time though. I wish Michael the best but his best years are most likely behind him.
I agree. There’s no place for him on the Mets.
In fairness, Conforto was a much better player then. His 2021 was garbage.
Rather run that risk over two years, vice 13.
Not a risk. It’s a guarantee of IL time with Conforto. This guy gets seriously injured while rehabbing from another injury.
He still can’t play long toss today. The Giants new RF until he gets hurt in spring training.
Correa is a very good player. But how many mvp votes has he voting in his career? Very few. Actually Brandon Crawford has finished higher in 2021 4th to Correa’s 5th. Obviously Correa will be better than Crawford going forward.
Can the Giants only sign players coming off injuries or looking for bounce back. That’s the real question
When CBP, the Phillies stadium, opened up, David Wells, John Smoltz and many others criticized the hitter-friendly dimensions and proclaimed FA pitchers would never play there. They were eventually proven wrong and pitchers have found success there, but I wonder if the inverse is happening in San Fran. It’s difficult to hit there, particularly for sluggers. And we just saw the Giants whiff on notable stars like Harper, Judge, Correa and more. Maybe hitters don’t like the stadium.
They didn’t whiff on Correa. They stepped out of the box more like.
Yes. A valid distinction.
Penny, I’d say a player that since 2015 ranks 21st in wRC+ (124 over that span) among qualified outfielders is anything but mediocre. If he’s healthy, and that’s a big if, he will surprise many.
If you’re calling Correa an MVP level player, that’s a big stretch. And from 2017-20, I bet confortos offensive numbers were as good as or better than correas. For a two year deal, it’s worth the flier.
I like Conforto, and was welcoming of Mets reunion but Correa is better hitter and game changer on both sides of ball and on Hall of Fame track. 28 years old with 39.5 WAR.
Conforto has pretty swing, and power but also very streaky. Solid defensively but not gold glove caliber.. 15.7 career WAR at 29.
Why are you stopping at 2020. From 2017-2022 Correa was better on offense and played elite defense at the most important defensive position on the field other than catcher.
Or since 2017 was the trashcan year, take that out and include 2018 to today. Correa was still better on offense while playing elite defense at a premier position.
Which is accurately reflected in Correa having more than double the WAR. 21.1 to 9.3
War has lost a lot of validity for me because of the way it overrates defensive impact, at least in my opinion in comparing players
I went 2017-20 because that’s when conforto started playing every day and was during his peak, and that’s what I was saying, at his best in that time period, he was a better hitter than Correa in most respects or on par (numbers say slightly better)
We could go last three years they each played
Correa 822 ops 128 ops+
Conforto 824 ops 123 ops+
It’s not that far off offensively. Correa smokes him defensively obviously but conforto always gets unwarranted flack.
Btw, correa can be streaky as hell too.
A run saved is worth the same as a run scored.
So you completely ignored the fact that Conforto lost 2 years?
He was never a better hitter than Correa and Correa is an elite defender at the most important position on the field and Conforto at his best was a below average defensive player.
Streaky doesn’t matter. If it did you could take most of the HOF players out.
Lost two years? He didn’t play last year. If you’re talking time lost to injuries, Correa had that covered more than conforto prior to last year. Just showed you their last three years played each, and yes, he was a better hitter for sure at one point, or maybe you could say on par. Defense doesn’t save that many runs, even the stats around DRS and OAA estimate, and it’s not that high. And conforto was 4 OAA in 2018 and 6 OAA in 2019, so no, you’re wrong – he was better than average at his best.
No you didn’t. you showed 3 years PRIOR to 2021-2022. Conforto lost an entire year after playing 125 games in a bad season on both offense and defense in 2021. Two lost seasons. He is not his best. Not close. So stop trying to pick out his best season. That time is long gone.
The last season Conforto was a plus on DRS was 2016. Since 2020 he is a -4 DRS and in OAA he is a -3. A well below average defensive OF.
You don’t go back 6 or 7 seasons on defense unless you are comparing careers and you really don’t want to compare his career to Correa on defense. He loses in that comparison by a 250% margin. Correa ranks 10th at the much more important position while Conforto ranks 42nd while having played RF most of that time.
With his hurt shoulder, his ability to throw and thus to play defense effectively got worse.
No, I showed you their last three offensive seasons above – Correa 2020-22, Conforto 2019-21.. Basically the same.
Correa 822 ops 128 ops+
Conforto 824 ops 123 ops+
And the last season Conforto was a plus on DRS was 2019. Remember, he’s not a CF, he’s a RF. He was +4 DRS and 6 OAA in RF in 2019. In 2020 he was 0 DRS, so he was “average.” In 2021, he was a +1 OAA in RF, so even then, certain metrics still have him around average. Granted, idk how the latest shoulder injury will affect him – could be brutal, who knows. But if you’re going to try and denigrate him, know his typical position, He’s not being signed to play CF anyway. And if you’re talking impact of runs over a season, it’s not that much defensively, as good as Correa is, which I’m not arguing. But at this point, we can just agree to disagree because I think correa has historically been overrated and conforto the opposite.
In 2019 Conforto was a -1 DRS as an OF and he played 39 games in CF.
Conforto had a -1 DRS in 2019 while playing both CF and RF. My comment was correct.
You are trying to compare different seasons as hitters and trying to include the juiced ball 2019 season for one player and not the other. If you include 2019 for Correa as well it becomes a 7% difference in favor of Correa. Not close to the same.
2020-2022 they played with the same conditions. Correa was better
We do know how the shoulder injury is affecting him. He can’t through more than 120 ft yet and has not yet hit a baseball either in the cage or against live pitching more than 8 months after the surgery in Mid-April.
At the time he had the surgery, Dr. Neil ElAttrache said that it had a 12 month recovery time. So he might be ready for the 2023 season.
The fact that Conforto was hurt for more than an entire season is a big part of this and you cannot try to just brush aside that point. Its central to what we are discussing.
A run saved is worth a run scored. DRS and OAA are compared to MLB AVERAGE. Conforto is not close to his best. He missed an entire season and injured his shoulder and required surgery during his rehab. He will be 30 by the time he plays his next game. He will never again be at his best.
You may dislike Correa for his participation in the sign stealing by the Astros, but the facts are clear. Correa is a better player.
Are you sure?
Pending a physical of course. Too soon?
2 years is a lot less than 13 years.
Good to see Bauer get reinstated.
Comment deleted in 3….2…1
Ryan Dempster retired.
Last productive full season was 2019. Forever ago.
SFG had to do this. Curious if he’s the same player.
Too soon after the first 3 people who made the same obvious “joke”.
This is contract going to be hard to live up to….wowzers….got to be frustrating to be a Giants fan right now. There’s always Napa
I love how pundits and posters are saying how awful it must be to be a Giants fan right now. Really? I don’t feel awful. It’s GREAT being a fan of a team that has the brains to demand to renegotiate and risk losing a deal when their docs say the player is damaged goods. That’s smart management. Why oh why were only 3 or so teams even considering Correa???? Because they’re also smart and knew he’s a long-term risk.
I’m thrilled Conforto is joining the club. If he can give us an average Conforto season, that will be a huge upgrade. We barely missed the playoffs last season, even having sustained a boatload of injuries. The Dodgers are MUCH weaker, the Pads are strong and will more than likely finish atop the West. So maybe the Giants come in 3rd and squeak their way into the post season – do you really think they would’ve finished much higher with Correa?? Doubtfully. I think spreading the money around is much more prudent.
So you think the giants come in 3rd and make the playoffs. So who are the giants going to be better then…Mets? Braves? Phillies?
I have those odds right next to zero.
Maybe. SF finished 6 back of the Phillies, so yeah, it’s possible. We won the WS three times without being even close to the best team in baseball.
Good luck with that. The phillies have done more this off season then the giants.
The Giants were a pitching factory and had Posey all of those seasons; only three of the pitchers currently on the MLB roster came from the Giants system, and Bart is not Posey.
They finished 6 back of Philly before Philly signed Turner, and they also lost Rodon. I wouldn’t get too excited.
Being consistently good would also allow them to have shots at the ws. This is a bad team with no leadership and continuity. Going to lose every good player we have as soon as they can get their value up above the giants comfort zone. Unfortunately fans like you are what the cheap risk adverse FO and ownership are counting on. Enjoy bad baseball
Wrote it on the other Giants article….
How do you replace Carlos Rodón’s 31 starts, 178 innings, and 5.4 bWAR?
The Giants weakness is defense, something a logical FO would have addressed years ago playing their home games in a big park. Additionally, a logical baseball person would be looking for speed from the OF defenders, as well as line drive hitters with speed that can get the ball to roll to the wall between the opposing OF’s then run all day.
They signed Walker too.
Way to stay positive
You aren’t seeing the bigger picture. Nobody worth signing in the future is going to trust this front office. They also apparently can’t develop any major league position players from their farm. The repercussions from bailing on the Correa deal run way deeper than not having Correa on the roster.
If the players have nothing to hide and the giants offer the most beneficial package, the players will sign there. MLB players aren’t going to react like 12 year olds when there are millions of dollars on the line.
Show them the money and they will sign. Boras wasn’t concerned with his next client.
Boras made the Giants bend over and say Please Mr Boras, may we have another with this signing.
As a Mets fan, I guess it has worked out well for both of us then. : )
I’m a Dodger fan and I’m happy for my friends who are Giants fans. I just don’t think Correa is going to stay healthy, nor do I want them having to root for a cheater.
I bet you are happy as a Dodger fan. You know they won’t be able to compete against you for years.
You think that contract is overpriced? Go to Napa. $50-$75 for a tasting.
At least you are drinking good wine in NAPA instead of watching bad baseball.
Hello from Napa!
You are going to have to be drunk to watch that team all season.
As I write this the terms have not be released ( please do not post “read the article” type bs)..but I’m guessing $3MM signing bonus,first year $13MM with player optout on the last $20MM..which would basically be a 1yr $16MM only a slight overpay
Don’t they already have Joc Pederson in RF? They should have spend half of that money on Drury, who is a better fit for SF
If they play their cards right, Joc won’t play the field much at all. Haniger and Conforto in the corns, Yastrzemski and Slater in center
H E Pennypacker
Michael’s noodle arm will relegate him to DH or LF on most days.
That’s okay. Still part of the everyday lineup.
H E Pennypacker
Are you 100% sure if that despite 2 major shoulder surgeries, a disastrous walk year, and not having played meaningful baseball in 1.5 years? If so, can I borrow your magic 8 ball?
To be fair, his 2021 was more “disappointing” than “disastrous.” He was a league-average hitter and added nothing with the glove. Definitely not worth $18M if he plays like that, but the upside is considerable — especially because he’s just 30.
Joc is 100% DH. He never plays RF, maybe a few games in LF. But I agree on Drury – no clue why that guy wasn’t gobbled up sooner, his numbers are strong.
Let me correct that, and answer your question at the same time. “…his numbers [last year only] are strong.”
So the Giants have 3 guys that are a DH? Pederson, Conforto, and Haniger. With that big OF? That should be fun for the NL West hitters.
outinleftfield. What makes you think Haniger is a DH? He’s played some CF, even though his numbers there are somewhat below average. But he’s been capable at the corners. Out of 414 guys that have played LF since 2016 Haniger is tied at 56th in OAA.
Maybe because he is far below average on defense?
Of the 136 players that have a qualifying number of plays in the OF from 2020-2022, Haniger ranked 105th with a -5 OAA.
He has been well below average the last 3 seasons.
outinleftfield, You should know that the OF stat includes all 3 OF positions. It’s misleading when a player has subpar numbers in CF in comparison to others that haven’t played any CF at all. Haniger has 1 DRS , and 1 OAA in LF and 21 DRS and -4 OAA in RF. Clearly that is not DH level defense.
From 2020-2022 Haniger only played RF or DH. Wouldn’t that mean his OAA and DRS would be a -5 OAA and a 0 DRS?
In OAA he ranked 35th of the 47 RF that had a qualifying number of attempts on StatCast.
That seems like DH level defense to me. Maybe that is why he made so many starts at DH in 2021 and 2022
So you want to cherry-pick the last 3 years in RF only? And you think a -5 OAA is DH level defense? That would mean these guys also play/played DH level defense:
Plus these at -6
And these guys at -7
And at -8
Now, Nick Castellanos, that’s a true DH, as is Kyle Schwarber with -35 in LF.
You are exactly right Pads. His OAA and DRS are identical for OF or RF in 2020-2022.
Cherry pick? That is the length of time that the developers of the stat said is necessary to have a valid comparison.
Yes. Far below average = DH level defense to me. Yes, Castellanos and Schwarber should be a DH. Harper WAS a DH in 2022. JD Martinez was a DH for nearly all 3 seasons. Adding in people that didn’t play OF diminishes your point. Try again.
No one disputed that. My point was that the stat for OF includes CF. A guy like Haniger that has played some CF may look like a worse defender than someone that played only LF, or the corners, when looking at the OF numbers.
And why cherry-pick only 3 seasons for that 1 stat, unless it’s an attempt to make the stats fit the assertion?
Defensive metrics are not very informative in small samples. because 2020 was only 60 games 2020-22 is not an ideal sample for defense.
Over his career in RF, where he’s played the majority of the time he has a 21 DRS and a -4 OAA. He isn’t a pus defender, but he’s definitely not a DH level defender.
So you found 4 guys that are DHs out of the list of about 35, and you think you got me? I just added everyone on the Statcast page. I didn’t add or delete anyone.
It’s common knowledge that 2 seasons, at the very minimum, give you any sort of reasonable picture, 3 seasons are better, and 2020-22 is not 3 full seasons. It’s also cherry-picking because you’re using the OF number which includes CF. The 1 OF stat for less than 3 full seasons ,while ignoring the numbers for his career in RF, is not looking at the full picture.
Was going to ask the same question. Forgot about NL DH.
Guy hasn’t swung a bat in almost 2 years and wouldn’t showcase for anyone. Still gets $18M a year. San Fran definitely felt the pressure on this one.
wu tang killa beez
I’m sure this is not the big splash SF fans were looking for this offseason. A lot of money for a guy who hasn’t played in a while
Scott Boras is playing the Giants like a fiddle. Pulls the rug out the second their timeline to review medicals expires and then gets them to pay $18mm per for a guy who missed almost 2 full seasons.
Now that’s a deal I’d expect Zaidi to make.
Overpay, but roughly the same overpay most have received this off season. The premium on players has been consistent across the board and this is no different. Probably around $5M a year more than he deserved even if he was fully healthy without the one year layoff.
wait… if “everyone is overpaid” doesn’t that mean nobody is overpaid and that’s just market rate now?
True. There’s also a ton of evidence that ownerships have underpaid players relative to the profits of the game for years now and so really this off season has seen the most parity of player salaries to industry grosses/profits in the history of the game- with even the league minimum getting very close to a fair and equitable amount.
It’s still weird to see, given that the increase has been around 25% to 50% above what players have typically been paid relative to their WAR/stats.
Not sure what’s spurring it but it’s certainly not a bad thing by any means.
Cool, can you show me the profits of the game, I haven’t been able to find that information.
Let me correct that for you. “There’s also a ton of [speculation]…”
Unless you have access to the books, revenue is the only thing that can somewhat accurately be portrayed. Do you have that access?
Everyone has access to the Braves and the Blue Jays books. They are owned by publicly held corporations. Do you think costs outside of player salaries are tremendously different for other teams?
The more people that attend games, the higher the costs. You need more ticket takers, ushers, security, etc… The team also makes more money when more people attend games.
They got their guy. Should be just as explosive as Bonds was. 2023 Triple Crown Winner and the 2023 World Series Champion MVP….
Okay, a bit over the top…
As explosive as bonds would be…in 2023? You might be on to something
In the end, Scott Boras wins.
Lolol, Boras played them like a fiddle. Can’t believe they were desperate enough to sign him to a two year deal with the opt out after one.
Astros backed off precisely because of that, if he’s healthy and does well, he leaves after one year if not, the team is stuck with two years of overpay.
But he was the last ” name” left on the market and SF had to give their fans something.
They have had a terrible offseason.
It would not surprise me if they offered Boston a blank check for Devers.
To you they were played like a fiddle. To me, you are just harping on it.
Good for Conforto.
I suppose although I think the Mets offered him like $150 million two years ago so maybe not.
5/100. Still a lot of money considering he got paid zero last season and just $36 million the next two.
Utterly ridiculous!!! Boras does his job getting his guys contracts. 18M? These desperate teams pulling the trigger. There will be a work stoppage because the owners will complain about the ridiculous contracts and the level of production not matching the financial commitment and they will have a case.
@bravesnation nc. Wait to they figure out who’s signing all of these contracts on the teams’ side. Who are they going to lock out? Themselves?
These guys are all billionaires. They do not have a case.
Boy Caught MLB TR
This is unexpected.
It’s crazy that he’ll make slightly less a year than the quality offer he declined from the Mets last year… not by much though.
Conforto turned down a 100M+ from the Mets in February 2021.
It’s the risk one takes. You can look at the contract extension Juan Gonzalez declined with the Tigers. They definitely dodge a bullet there.
Seems steep and an opt out? so all risk is on the team.
He got how much?? 2 years for 36 million? Wow that’s just crazy. I really thought 10 million a year would be the maximum he would get.
Giants are the winners here. Haniger Conforto. A little investment for a big return if healthy.Worse case they can go after ohtani if it doesn’t work out next year.
Giants are clear losers! Mitch will most likely miss at least half of the season from some weird injury and last time you saw conforto, he was terrible and injured. You mean how they were bad last year and went after Judge and got rejected. Why would ohtani want to come to SF
West Coast team, and Money?
Ohtani is not tied to being with a West Coast team. Never has been and has said so.
He wants to win, to be on a team that shows him respect, will allow him to play DH and pitch, and that will utilize a 6 man rotation. In 2017, the Cubs and Rangers were in that group of 7 that got a chance to pitch him.
Zaidi is on record saying that the Giants would not use a 6 man rotation. I think that takes them out of the running.
But he is going to sign with the Padres.
Ohtani is going to be an Angel or a Dodger in 2024. If he is even close to his 2022 numbers in 2023 he is going to get a record breaking contract in AAV and total dollars.
They can go after ohtani but they aren’t going to get him.
Nobody else was going to sign conforto to 36m guarantee. Giants had to over pay trying to save face.
Giants have said all offseason they wanted to add two outfielders. They did just that. Add a couple bullpen pieces and hope for 85-88 wins.
They did that too. Stripling and Rogers, 2 new bullpen pieces. Conforto and Haniger basically replace Belt and Longoria
Eighteen million buys a lot of comfort food
Conforto is 29, not 30.
Conforto will be 30 on March 1st so 2023 will be his age 30 season.
He won’t break the curse of the Zaidi
Good signing, no 10 -12 year outrageous commitments.. Conforto, along with Haniger, allows another year or two for some real talent in the minor leagues to develop. Yes, the next year or two are going to be rebuilding, but they will have real talent coming up and ALOT of free money.
Who is their real talent in the minors? Just curious.
#slogar1 – Conforto and Haniger basically replace Belt and Longo. Just treading water. Really failed on the promises made going into this offseason
That’s a lot of guaranteed money for a risky comeback player, albeit with good upside.
More guaranteed than Bellinger, and just as much of a toss up on whether he can rediscover his swing post-injury. Plus, not as great as a defender.
Conforto was not even average on defense in the last 3 seasons he played. With the shoulder injury his throwing will be worse.
Lol.. no really, who did he sign with?
Giants doctors will find this one and done contract to their liking. Didn’t think they could make this any worse.
Boras and the Giants not allowing their recent difference of opinion to impact on future deals. Good to see.
Everyone overreacting that the Giants will never be able to work with Boras again ha!
Also Kyle Harrison is a Boras client too.
Yes, welcome Michael. Please thrive here!
H E Pennypacker
Boras played the Giants here, again. Nobody else was going to give Conforto that much money.
The thing that really irks me about these kind of contracts, if Conforto is no longer a viable MLB player and stinks it up in 2023, he’s rewarded with another $18 million by simply not opting out.
them’s the breaks.
Trust me, the owners aren’t hurting for money. Millions to them is a happy meal to most middle class
Yeah, they’re generally not good deals for the teams
Giants get their man
Boy Caught MLB TR
I expected 20 million AAV and was very close to it. This is sad
Don’t all of these overpays bloat the value of 1 WAR? Seems like after this year 1 Win Above Replacement is gonna be like $12M for position players and like $15M for pitchers.
tis the nature of inflation.
If we include Correa, Rogers, and Conforto its at $10.34 million.
I feel like Farhan is gonna get fired next season if they are .500 or worse.
A week ago I posted this in the Conforto story here:
“The Astros want him and the holdup is Boras’ insistence on giving his player an extra year of insurance without committing if he can earn more.
He wants either a 2 yr $40M+ deal with an opt out or a 1 yr + player option @$20M+ each.
Either way the team has no security. Either they pay for injured player or poor production or the player leaves for greener pastures but only the player gets to decide.
He has shown his willingness to wait it out and stick to his guns.
He will probably get it eventually.”
I guess he couldn’t get to $20M AAV but the rest was exactly 100% on.
You had me at the Astros wanted him. The rest is apparently the cost of doing business as the Giants these days. SF rehab facility!
Wow, you’re a frickin’ genius! Who knew?
Wow, you & almost every ‘rumors’ blog out there! You’re a genius! (Or you’ve read all the same stuff we have..)
If you listen to David Samson, this is exactly how he said the Giants would react lol. Looks like Farhan is the new Mike Rizzo for Scott Boras lol
I’m hearing the Braves were a close 12th place with a super competitive offer of 1yr/$2M.
H E Pennypacker
Naw, Braves tried locking him up at 8 years and $20M.
The Giants owner nixed the Correa deal when he found out it wasn’t South Korea he had bought for $330 million.
Imagine though if a team used that same money to buy an entire country! They’d own theoretically a whole nation of prospects lol
You can hardly buy a company for $300mil, let alone a country, let alone a country developed enough to produce MLB prospects
You don’t say, semut? Do tell, do tell. You’re so dialed in! 🙂
He ain’t no Carlos Correa, that’s for sure
It’s a good deal for Conforto. Worst that happens is that he doesn’t regain his old form and he’s guaranteed $36M. As for opting out, he doesn’t even need to perform strongly the first half of next year, as long as he picks it up after the All Star break.
Do you seriously think he will even be playing in the 2nd half?
Have no idea. It’s why I don’t particularly like the deal for the Giants. It’s not a huge amount in the context of what others have been spending, but a $36M guarantee to a player who may not be able to stay on the field…
Interesting that they let go of Correa do to medical conditions and signed a guy who was not healthy enough to land a contract last year. I would rather over pay conforto for 2 years than Correa foe 13!
Everyone says you should be paying for what the player will be doing in the future, and not paying for past production, but when a team does that, they point at the players past. They aren’t paying for the time he didn’t play, so until something happens, quit griping. Its almost like you think they shouldn’t have signed Correa because he’s likely to get injured.
Some good arguments presented. For all you Mets, Padres, Dodgers fans, check when was the last time your teams won the world series? Mets, 36 years ago, Padres (LOL) Dodgers 34 years ago (60 game season doesn’t really count).
Phillies, Braves any day over the Mets. Padres have a good chance this year.
Dodgers will make the playoffs but choke in post season.
Giants will be decent, but tough division.
Yes because clearly the 1992 Dodgers, 1982 Padres, etc, have a bearing on who wins the World Series in 2022 (eyeroll). You know they have different rosters now, right? Different owners, different management, different operations, etc? Try to keep up. The game changes every couple years, regardless of how teams preformed a couple decades ago
Wait…so the Giants pass on Correa because of a physical, but their next big move is signing a guy who missed all of last season after having a horrible season the year before?
Either the Giants re-thought the contract they gave Correa or there is something there with Correa that is a bigger concern than what is there with Conforto.
It all comes down to which team doctors you trust more – the Giants doctors or the Mets doctors?
I am as annoyed with the Giants as anyone, but there is a big difference between 2 years and 13.
And the money. And the known injury history going into the preliminary agreement.
With Bora’s representing, Ms. Ng is not swallowing the bait…All these signings are way over-priced….Make a good trade for Pablo Lopez and get Eric Hosmer for “peanuts”, and Marlins fans will feel that at least she’s trying, cause at those prices, I doubt if she’ll repeat the Soler and Avisail mistakes from last year.
Ms. Ng looks like she won’t be doing anything other than talking about she will do when she won’t do anything,…and she’ll have something to talk about when she does her next 25 interviews before she actually completes a transaction.
Wait…so the risk-calculus for a 2 year guarantee is the same as it is for a 13 year guarantee?
I guess it all comes down to who can see a massive difference between two things – and who can’t. 🙂
Its also people who want to look at last year rather than look at the years the contract is for. If Correa has a problem that will effect his future performance, you don’t sign him. If Conforto’s medical show a clean bill of health, with no concerns about his health going forward, you sign him. Last year is not what any team is paying for.
So essentially you take the route of “The Giants re-thought the contract that they gave Correa” that I mentioned in the post.
H E Pennypacker
…or the Twins doctors MFB? They had access to Correa’s medicals for the last year and we’re still offering (reportedly) $285M when Boras circles back.
150 feet. Maybe Conforto could make throw to cutoff man. Runners will definitely challenge Conforto’s arm until he proves he can throw someone out.
120 ft. A 16 hopper to the cut off man.
Be fair. Its only a 2 hopper to the cut off man.
“The deal is pending a physical.”
♪♪ …I see the bad moon arising
I see trouble on the way… ♪♪
Giants are not messin around. They are in a full-blown lose now mode.
The SF Giants making the types of moves the NY Giants have made the past 5-6 years.
A Boras client signs with the Giants right after Boras flamed the Giants in the media?
Boras only cares about his commissions. Nothing is personal. For him it is all about $$$ even if he is destroying the game.
Yeah, but that has to hurt a little from Farhan’s side.
The only thing wrong Boras does wrong is PR. He and his clients just need to say publicly more, “We know the fans are the most important part of the game” every time they talk about salaries
Wilmer the Thrillmer
The last two sentences in the first paragraph says it all
“The deal is pending a physical. He is represented by the Boras Corporation.”
Good to know Mr. Boras and Mr. Zaidi can still play in the same sandbox.
Seems more like Boras said, if you ever want to even talk to one of my clients again you are going to overpay for Conforto who we know will spend most of the next two seasons on the IL.
Ha ha. Yeah, I’m sure that happened.
FMD. People assume these people are as childish as they are.
People assume that business people don’t hold grudges. That they aren’t human.
Boras bent Zaidi over while yelling YEE HAW, you are going to overpay AND you are going to like it.
So the Giants nixed the Correa deal for a medical issue but are on-board with signing a player who has twice injured his shoulder, including surgery? umm, ok. What could possibly go wrong there.
AND missed all of last season with said shoulder injury. And his previous season before that wasn’t anything close to spectacular. What a weird signing.
It’s their money, but how did they reject Correa but jumped on this fellow, who did not play (due to injury) last year…They call that “Bora’s Vendetta”… Giants are still a non-playoff team !!
If Carlos couldn’t pass the Giants physical, Michael Conforto most definitely won’t.
Tomorrow the Mets will give him a 10 year $320 million deal.
Remember when the Orioles were highly critized for voiding the contract of Grant Baulfour? They were right at the end, only time will tell if the Giants were right or not in Correa’s
Balfour had a 12 year career and put up a 3.49 ERA. They were wrong.
Well, the last high-profile outfielder has signed. Yankees still need a left fielder. So what’s it’s going to be, a combo of Jurickson Profar and Oswaldo Cabrera? Pony up the farm for Bryan Reynolds? Try to swing a deal for Luis Arraez? Plug freaking Aaron Hicks back in there (God forbid)?
It’s time to see if those prospects can get it done. I mean they have a 300 million dollar payroll.
Volpe and Peraza are infielders, not outfielders. They’re of no help here
They had plenty of time to do something pinstripe, if they wanted to. They’ve been too busy signing minor lead depth. It appears they do not wish to spend any more to improve an area of obvious great need. it will come back to bite us on the ass. I’m sure Cashman thinks he can find a diamond in the rough under a rock somewhere, or pick up something at a discount as a trade line, but that is risky. Yankees risk wasting another year of judges and calls and now Rodan‘s prime years. But they do not seem to care as they do this year after year.
Giants fans are done, this team won’t commit to any player long term and act like a minor league team for baseball, come here and then if you become good we let you go. Any Giants fan who supports this team it crazy.
I sure ain’t wasting a penny of my money supporting Farhan
In my opinion is that Scott Boras called Farhan Zaidi bluff. Remember last Farhan said he was not giving out any nine figure contracts. So when Zaidi offered he knew Zaidi would find a way out of it. Both Farhan Zaidi Gabe Kapler are going to ruin the Giants. In my opinion the fences need to be moved in some to attract hitters.Farhan Zaidi draft picks are no better then the previous GM. Bishop has not developed neither has Bailey. The last two years first pick is to early to tell.
The fences already were brought in. It’s no longer a pitchers park, it’s neutral.
Kapler’s politician attitude definitely drives free agents away. You’re right that Farhan and Kapler are destroying the Giants.
I knew they would destroy the Giants when in there first off season Madison Bumgarner and Will Smith rejected the QO offer and signed elsewhere as fast as they did. Kepler has no clue as to what he is doing.
This reeks of desperation.
Another LH OF? Do they have about 8 of them now? Don’t understand the fit. Maybe they’re hoping he gets his groove back and they can ship him out mid-year when Giants are double digits out of a wild card spot.
Dennis, does 8 equal 2? New math? pederson is dh. Wade will platoon at first. Yaz is centerfield, conforto is leftfielder. Lastella infield. 5 lefties, 2 of which are outfielders. Righthanders: Haniger, Slater Estrada, also play outfield. The rest of roster is Davis, Flores, Bart, Wynnes and Villar.
What are you talking about Oil Can?
Conforto, along with Yaz, gives them 2 primary LHOF’s. Their only other “LHOF’s” are Joc Pederson – who’s penciled in as the primary DH, and Wade – who’s ticketed for 1st base right now.
It’s hilarious to watch the giants get burned by free agents. People will bring up past championships but they won’t help them win in 2023
An A’s fan wails. 🙂
(Understandably, of course.)
Ahh now THIS seems more like a Farhan signing: a quickly-aging, oft-injured vet who hasn’t played since 2021, and hasn’t really had a season above .250 other than 2020
Let’s log in tomorrow and see what team he is playing for.
The Mets on a 1 year, $5 million deal.
Conforto’s 29…not quickly aging. A good player, mid order power, and a pro’s pro. who respects the game, plays hard and great teammate.
It’s very nice of you to come to your son’s defense, Mrs. Conforto.
I can’t believe they went back to Boras for another player with injury issues. Boras is a hypnotist. Gotta be.
Conforto is at his best and can hit any pitcher when he is hitting the ball the other way, unfortunately he became extremely pull happy at some point which had a negative impact on his numbers.
He should benefit greatly from the shift ban.
Go Giants! No one will care about the past if they win big. Who can say they won’t? (Correa was a middling-level cheater—good riddance.)
Agree. I was hoping for Bryan Reynolds, but,,it would have cost Kyle Harrison, at a minimum. I feel good about the team. I really don’t want anyone on a 10-yr contract, much less a 13-yr contract.
Karma. Boras just stuck the Giants with the player voted most likely to be on the IL before spring training starts. A guy that got injured while rehabbing from another injury. A guy that has missed 220 games in the last 3 seasons. A guy that still can’t play long toss or hit live pitching.
And the Giants get to pay a premium for him.
Stop with the exaggerations, disinformation and inaccuracies..
Conforto’s a solid player, respects the game and is great teammate.
You don’t read or listen to NYC sports news do you? Try it. You will learn a lot about NY athletes.
Conforto has not been a solid player in years. His last good full season was 2019. After a bad start in 2021 he got hurt and then missed all of 2022.
He has a 3.4 WAR/650 for his career which is not exactly superstar material even when he is healthy.
Sorry you BH by the facts about your homeboy
The San Francisco Giants win the “stupid team of the year” award.
They pivoted to sign a solid player, mid order bat and all around good guy who respects the game.
If he was actually those things, he wouldn’t have signed for this contract. They pivoted to sign a player who might* provide those things (then leave).
I’m not sold on him…
Best Screenname Ever
Ludicrous. They just paid $36MM for nothing. Great deal for Conforto. He’ll be back next offseason after his release, $36MM richer and looking for another sucker. My bet is the Blue Jays.
It appears they are finally are Confortoble with this free agent deal.
The Judge decided The Giants didn’t have the Correage to go through with his deal or the Correa deal.
The Giants should of bribed the Judge to take their offer.
The Giants new nickname should be the San Francisco Littles.
They haven’t gone through with this deal yet either
Not bad,if Hangier and conforto stays healthy all year they just added 60+hr for 23. I think Manea and stripling will be solid for Giants. If wood bounces back and Cobb gets more consistent they should be ok. Either way they’ll be in 3rd place just like if they signed Judge or Correa. So don’t matter. They don’t have a ACE, bullpen is shady, need a 2B, 1B and CFer. Too many holes to fill. If they finish above.500 I’ll be impressed really. Schmidt should make the roster he has really good D that’s what they need also. D was weak this yr
We have an ace. Webb. With Judge and Correa we would have been a threat to win the division next year, like we did just last year. With the step back the dodgers are taking, the Giants could have pulled it off, competing with SD for the division. But Farhan punted this off-season.
And btw it’s *Schmitt and he’s a slugger as well
Estrada. 2nd baseman. 14 hrs. 21 sb. Free agent in 4yrs. Yaz centerfield had down year. 1st base is issue but 19 hr from Flores not bad.
The Giants must be gluttons for Punishment going back to the Boras well so soon after Correa. Maybe he offered Farhan Conforto as a consolation prize
I like the Conforto move. Let’s see if he puts up better numbers than Correa?? No need to freak out about all these massive overpays. San Diego will come to regret adding all that salary. 12 years? 13 years of Carlos Correa is about 6 years too much. Trea Turner should not have gotten more than 4 years. Deals are gonna go bad. DeGrom deal will also go bad.
A lot of people, including Giants fans are forgetting a team SF team picked to finish last a couple of years ago won the Division with roster of really solid players who consistently performed. No reason why this team can’t be the same.
Yeah, there were some that predicted that they would win 30 less games than they actually did.
I remember that season. I also remember last season where they were PAINFUL to watch. The team has only gotten worse. for 2023.
I remember 2017, THAT was painful to watch
Two year deal. If he plays well, he opts out and goes somewhere else. The Giants have turned into the A’s -NL West.
I have zero confidence in Zaidi and company. Pete P, the hire from the Astro’s worked in Houston BB Operations since 2011. If anyone knew there was NOTHING wrong with Correa’s leg, it was him. Ownership decided to pocket the money and donate to Trump.
Exactly. Putila should be POBO in SF, not Farhan. Although I doubt it had anything to do with Buster Posey trying to donate to trump.
Both Conforto and Rodgers were players the Giants had interest in even if they HAD acquired Judge or Correa.
Not that anybody who wants to say that these two signings were “acts of desperation” – care about any of that, of course. 🙂
Exactly. Once they lost on Judge and Nimmo Conforto was the next outfielder on the list. The Rodgers deal not surprising either as they hwv said all off season they would like someone to take some high leverage innings from Doval.
Clearly , the Giants prefer to shop at the Dollar Store while only pretending, for PR purposes, to compete with the big boys for the top players. Once they agreed in principle with Correa they realized they’d be expected to sign more of those types, so they looked for a way out.
They’re just not comfortable paying big money for top talent. It’s ok, since that’s who they are until they get a new owner who is willing to take some chances on guys, I just wish they’d stop pretending they’re a large market team when they’re rather act like the A’s or Rays and look for bargains.
The Giants DID get a new owner this year, Buster Posey. It’s the president of baseball operations, that’s the problem
Turning down the original QA from Mets was the worst mistake of this guy’s life. Probably will end up losing 100 million in earnings because of that and the timing of his injury
No offense intended to Conforto, but the Giants can improve their outfield and infield depth by adding Jurickson Profar and Jean Segura, both of whom are quality players who are available and don’t cost a ton to sign.
I was saying Profar, when our offseason still mattered
Holy Mother of Overpays. That guy couldn’t stay healthy through his rehab, let alone games. They were saying on MLB Network that he cannot take batting practice yet and is only throwing 120 feet which is not far enough to hit the cut off man.
Unless Boras blackmailed the Giants by saying they would never even talk to another guy he represents unless they signed Conforto to a huge overpay, I don’t understand them giving him 2 years of guaranteed money. What I missing here?
Amusing. Give it up Farhan, we’re still not wasting our money on your flailing failure.
I wonder what team Conforto will actually end up with
Farhan wants to throw away a draft pick and international signing money, for this guy, but is scared to keep his word about signing Correa. Smh
FireFarhan, What are you talking about? Throwing away what draft pick? Because Conforto was issued a QO? Are you really unaware that the draft penalty no longer applied when he was unsigned by the draft last July? I find it hard to take your opinion on baseball very seriously if you’re that clueless about the workings of MLB.
I’m completely aware of how the QO/draft pick compensation works. I was under the impression that Conforto had rejected the QO after not playing this season, not last year. I checked again before replying, and you’re right, in that it was after the ’21 season. Nice attempt at being a condescending jerk though. I’m sure you’re perfect right?
No, I’m not perfect, nor do I think I’m anywhere close. But if you want to be so vociferous in your antagonism to Farhan Zaidi, when you were so clearly wrong on the very basis of your complaint, what do you expect? You set the tone with your post. Be a jerk, expect a jerk response.
Fire, I’ll repeat what tad said. EVERYONE knew conforto was no longer tied to compensation. Therefore it is hard to take you serious especially when you have no problem talking as if, for example, Zaidi is an idiot. You looked clownish. Face up, dude, you’re exposed. Yep, no one is perfect so why talk like you are. Fire yourself.
My antagonism towards Farhan is a culmination of being a loyal fan for over 40 years, who loves the Giants passionately. I’ve had it with Farhan’s flailing failing and Kapler acting like the most important job as a baseball manager, is to make sure everyone on earth is aware of his political opinions about literally everything. That doesn’t win ballgames or attract free agents. More the opposite.
Claudia Raymond you know what looks clownish? Not knowing proper capitalization. I’ve been a loyal fan for over 40 years, who loves the Giants passionately. I’ve had it with Farhan’s flailing failing and Kapler acting like the most important job as a baseball manager, is to make sure everyone on earth is aware of his political opinions about literally everything. That doesn’t win ballgames or attract free agents. More the opposite.
Your longtime fandom is irrelevant. In fact, I’ve been a Giant’s fan since 1962, so my fandom exceeds yours by almost 20 years. We all have our opinions. If you don’t like FZ or Kapler that’s your prerogative. But if you are going to criticize, at least get your facts straight. Did you disapprove of them in 2021 when the Giants won 107 games?
But now you’re using that prerogative, and specious claims that I think I’m perfect, to try to obscure how very wrong you were in the initial post. Had it been me to make a blunder like that in a post, I think I would have just admitted I was wrong, and moved on. I’d think it would have been better to make any negative opinions about FZ in a new post, instead of trying to justify what you wrote.
But if someone else makes a blunder you stop and focus on just that, with paragraphs of insulting vitriol? Chill out. Happy holidays Grinch
Well Aaron Judge gambled on himself and won,big time. Conforto on the contrary, could’ve had $100 million contract a few years back , bug declined. He gambled on himself and lost big time.
Dr, so you’re saying Conforto should have known a major injury would affect his earning potential. How foolish indeed.
@Dr2022 Yes he did. The Mets were prepared to go to around 5/$120m. Still, he has $36m guaranteed from the desperate Giants. If he has a typical Conforto year he’ll probably score 3/60m in the offseason.
Or 7/190m given the new market. Who knows?
My money’s on Conforto’s old shoulder capsule injury having weakened him even in 2020, when it took an historically lucky BABIP (.412, 8th highest since 1900) to conceal a decline in ISO power that absolutely plummeted in 2021. The surgery is serious, he missed a year, and he and Boras conspired to conceal the nature and time of the injury.
But we’re supposed to believe that Conforto completely collapsed in 2021, his power disappeared (.384 SLG, .150 ISO) and he only THEN injured himself in a ‘training accident’? Come on.
Boras is a tricky guy. He put the Giants under the gun with Correa and used their predicament to get a very favorable contract for his lesser client Conforto. He got a $ 36m guarantee, but the upside for the Giants is capped.
He’ll either be around for 2 years and suck for at least one, or he’ll have a good year and bounce
What’s with the recent trend of calling it an “opt out” versus just calling it a player option?
It’s actually different, albeit similar. The two are similar in function (the player ends up in FA or remains with the team), but it’s an action – opt-out of a contract agreement – versus a non-action – player not taking the option for additional year(s) of a contract.
In summary, the are the exact opposite of each other, but both give the player the authority and result in the same or similar outcomes.
Great signing. On the path to a World Championship in 2023.
Never has been and never will be.
Meanwhile, LOLmets … LOLmets … LOLmets …
Degrom Texas Rangers
He should be a Ranger!
I was watching the game when Conforto first injured his shoulder in 2017. He swung at a pitch that was over the plate and collapsed in pain. He’s never been the same since, The surgery was later when he blew it out again prepping for 2022.
I like Conforto, but he’s toast.
Farhan haters are going to be livid if Conforto has a solid comeback year, while Correa ends up under the knife…
Mets in 2021: Michael, We would like to offer you a $100m contract extension.
Michael: I’m worth more so up your offer.
Mets : Bye.
Michael 2023: I will take the Giants 2 year $36m deal.
Oh wow, they actually finalized the signing! This one anyway
Hope that Farhan and Boras had some more Correa talk when they completed the Conforto signing.
When he was promoted I thought he was future captain material after King David Wright. But his league average production and wet mop of a personality certainly doesn’t help his case for a big pay day either
Judge Schmudge, watch out NL West!
A lot of these replies from two weeks ago are pretty funny now