Pirates center fielder Bryan Reynolds reported to camp early, arriving at the Pirates’ spring facility in Bradenton, Fla. today, a few days ahead of the Feb. 20 mandatory report date for non-pitchers and catchers. In meeting with the Pirates beat, Reynolds acknowledged the offseason trade request, stating that “nothing’s really changed from that front” but adding that he’s “been pretty open the past few years that my No. 1 choice would be to sign an extension in Pittsburgh” (Twitter links via The Athletic’s Rob Biertempfel and Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette). Reynolds added that he’s simply seeking a “fair” deal for both parties.
Earlier this month, Jon Heyman of the New York Post reported that the Pirates had put forth a six-year, $76MM offer as their most recent bid to keep Reynolds on a long-term deal. Mackey reported in January that the two sides were around $50MM apart in their talks. Reynolds didn’t offer specifics this morning but acknowledged that reporting on the situation has been generally on the mark. “Pretty much everything out there has been fairly accurate,” the outfielder said (via Mackey).
All indications from Reynolds are that the situation remains unchanged. Nevertheless, it’s of some note that the 2021 All-Star not only specified that the bridge hasn’t been burned but added that a deal to keep him in Pittsburgh remains his hope. Pittsburgh general manager Ben Cherington has maintained since Reynolds’ trade request became public that his own hope — and the goal of the organization at large — is the keep Reynolds long term. Whether ownership will greenlight a substantial increase in the offer and whether Reynolds would be willing to come down on his own asking price in a compromise will be determined over the next several weeks, in all likelihood.
The “fair” deal mentioned by Reynolds is, of course, a subjective term — but there’s some relevant context to consider. Pittsburgh’s offer to Reynolds has at least one recent service time comp: newly acquired Braves catcher Sean Murphy, who signed a six-year, $73MM extension earlier in the offseason. However, while both players have between three and four years of MLB service, it’s a flawed comparison for many reasons. Murphy was arbitration-eligible for the first time and projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn a relatively modest $3.5MM salary. Reynolds is a Super Two player who’ll be arb-eligible four times as a result; he already signed a two-year, $13.5MM contract covering his first two arb seasons last April — a sum that easily tops what Murphy would have earned going year-to-year in arbitration.
Even before Reynolds agreed to that two-year deal, Swartz had projected him for a $4.5MM salary in his first trip through the process. His two-year deal inherently values his second arbitration year somewhere around $9MM, then. Given that starting point and a pair of remaining trips through the process, Reynolds’ final two arb seasons will likely exceed $30MM on their own.
Viewed through that lens, if the Pirates’ offer began in 2024 (as Reynolds is already signed for 2023), it’d be valuing the player’s first four free-agent seasons somewhere around $42-46MM in total; Reynolds’ reported asking price more than doubles the annual value on those free-agent seasons. Even if the team’s proposed offer overwrote Reynolds’ 2023 salary, it’d “only” be promising him five years and $69.25MM in new money. Again, with his 2024-25 seasons likely topping $30MM on their own, that’d be a roughly $35-39MM value on three free-agent seasons.
Until the situation is resolved one way or another, trade rumblings surrounding Reynolds will abound. There’s no urgency for the Bucs to move him, as he can’t become a free agent until the completion of the 2025 season. The rebuilding Buccos hope to be contending by that point. However, the closer they allow Reynolds to get to free agency, the more the asking price figures to increase. A trade prior to the season seems unlikely at this point, but it’s possible teams could make a renewed push to acquire him over the summer.
Interest in Reynolds has understandably been heavy, both before and after his trade request. The Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox, Padres, Rockies and Marlins are just a few of the teams that have expressed interest in Reynolds, a 28-year-old switch-hitter with a career .281/.361/.481 batting line, 74 home runs, 97 doubles and 18 triples in 2014 big league plate appearances since his 2019 MLB debut.
Pirates counter with an offer of NUTTING.
Just trade this poor kid already, put him out of his misery. Pittsburgh is playing for nutting.
Personally speaking, I’d rather watch a young team progress and become more competitive than watching a team with a payroll of $200 million plus, only to see other teams win the WS
Of course he is, any intelligent life form would pick the Pirates over risking a trade to the Yankees. Wah Wah Wah.
He’s saying the right things as he knows the Pirates right now hold the cards and he wants to get paid. Given his position and good but not HOF track record, the Pirates’ offer is more in line than is his agent’s position. Benny surprisingly got $75m from the White Sox over five years. That’s a reasonable comparison. While Reynolds might be slightly better with his power, he’s not a free agent.
You could have smelled this coming from a mile away….Reynolds has no leverage in this situation and probably and finally realized that the Pirates trade demands will most likely not be met ( I hesitate because of the Padres seemingly endless cadre of funds, and of course the Dodgers who certainly have the assets to make this happen)……its the Pirates play……
Reynolds had a 6-WAR season in 2021. Benintendi has been worth 6-7 WAR total since 2019 (the time of Reynolds’ debut). Reynolds has hit for a higher average, gotten on base at a stronger clip and hit for vastly more power.
Reynolds would trounce that $15MM AAV in free agency. He could come close to $15MM in his third arb season and should top it in his Arb4 season. If the best the Bucs would offer is $15MM per free agent year, there’d be no reason to consider the offer. The gap in power between Benintendi and Reynolds is not small. Reynolds has more than twice the home runs and 60 points in ISO over the past four seasons.
He’s just a better player. Not sure that means he’s justified in asking $125-130MM over six years — he’d be setting a new precedent with that deal — just pointing out that outside of the fact that they’re both outfielders, Benintendi/Reynolds doesn’t feel like a reasonable comparison.
I don’t think either is a good comparison, but just to play devil’s advocate, why is Benintendi the comp and not Brandon Nimmo? Reynolds’ profile is closer to Nimmo’s than to Benintendi’s.
Thanks Steve (for not agreeing with my comparison). The reason why I felt it was comparable is while they’re the same age, Benny WAS a free agent while Reynolds is two seasons away (I believe) and that’s a huge factor.
That is correct. Reynolds is a cf, and a good one, as opposed to a left fielder. He is worth the 20m a year he is asking, for 6 years.The Dodgers, Yankees, and Padres, would all be interested in trading for Reynolds.
@baseballhistory that is simply not true. he is pretty bad at CF. he was one of if not the worst CF in 2022. He has had some amazing plays that make you forget about that though
I have seen him play cf enough to know how good he is defensively. Why do you think, almost every team in baseball would like him to be playing cf, for them? He is an all-around player, that brings both a top glove and bat for a center fielder. All of the gm’s around baseball know this.
Correct. His poor play as a CFer matched my memories of Benny who came up as one but was not good. That’s why I didn’t mention defense.
Teams want him for his bat. Here’s an article I found from 22.
https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/2021/08/09/digging-deeper-on-bryan-reynolds-defensive-runs-saved/
@baseballhistory
I’ve watched almost every evening game and most of the day games since he was called up. He is a poor defensive outfielder regardless of where he is. All the metrics back up that statement. just double checking it… he was dead last in CF performance in 2022 of those center fielders that qualified. All of the GM in baseball, all of the stat freaks, almost all fans know this.
That said, he can play center field and I would play him there unless i had a better defensive CF but it does not add to his value, probably a negative really.
Still he does seem better than Cutch at center. Bad CF that makes some amazing plays
Why couldn’t Mr Machado have said this?
Reynolds is the most interesting case here, I can’t get a gage on what team he’ll be on in August.
So much for the trade request from earlier
Why “so much”? He confirmed that he requested the trade.
It boils down to, “I would like to be paid X, and if it’s not here, then I’d like to be on a team where that’s possible.”
Exactly. Repeating what I have posted for months now from the view of a long time Bucs fan from the 1960s. Reynolds knows that he will hit FA heading into his age 31 season. This will be his one and only shot at a mega deal. He and his agent have a figure on what they believe his value will be after 2025 and that is what he is looking for to extend now. I can’t blame him. I would have the same ask if I were him. Many of the teams in the league are not in position to pay a long term deal for huge money where the player will be in his late30s in the last few years of the contract having a contract with a player who can no longer perform like he did to get the contract. Many teams do not have the ability to just eat the last 2-4 years of that contract and either pay the guy to mostly sit the bench or paid to not play. That money kills the ability of those teams to get talen to replace such a player and have to wait until the contract is done to look for a replacement. It is what it is.
That’s assuming his skills diminish at the ripe old age of 31. There are plenty of guys in their mid- to late 30s who are still very productive.
There are also plenty of guys who tail of significantly 35 yrs+ too. That is why he wants a big deal at 31 for 6-8 years and is not willing to take a 6 year deal now only covering his first 3 years of FA. I would hold and go FA after 2025 as well.
I’m sure he’d be more than happy with a Nimmo deal
I am sure too. Wonder how many teams outside of NY, LA, Philly, and Chicago would be willing to give a player that much money guaranteed Into the players late 30s. I love Reynolds but I just don’t see them risking a guaranteed contract for him that long.
Can’t blame a guy for trying. You know, ask for a ridiculously high number then hope the team’s offer is higher than they originally offered.
Don’t blame him in the least. I always figured he would not extend unless he gets 5-7 of his FA years in a deal and he wants what he believes he will be worth after 2025. This will really be his only run at FA based on his age and I can’t blame him for his stance at all..
If Reynolds was a free agent after the 2022 season, he would have gotten more than 120m for 6 years. He is an outstanding cf, and they are in short supply.
Unfortunately for Reynolds he has 3 more seasons to play before FA. Those 3 years makes a difference for many teams. for about 10 teams they will be wiling to go 7 years at his AAV asking price if they think he would help get them to the WS for the first 3-4 years of the contract.
You never watched him play if you think he is a outstanding cf.
I was completely blasted on TA, even by the author himself, for mentioning Reynolds wasn’t a great CF. I’m with you, DreamGM
Pirates are unlikely to get offered an elite SP prospect as a headliner, but could probably get a top end position player prospect + pretty good pitching prospect near ready as the key pieces. Given perceived demand, it would be a surprise if no club offered a really good return, but Bucs holding out for tad too much. The BR guarantee expectation is really saying he doesn’t want to extend there.
The pirates absolutely have the right to ask for any prospect in any farm system. Carrying a 4-5+ WAR last two season and on a super cheap contract. Reyonlds is saying the “right things” and pinning it back onto Pittsburgh to sign him.
It matters not if he’s not traded considering he is 3 years from free agency
The Bucs hold the cards and asking for elite players or prospects is only a ruse.
They have no intention of trading him
They would if some team, were be so desperate that they meet the Bucs asking price.
No use in trading him if that’s all they can get. Take the comp pick and have him for some contending years or trade him as a 2 month rental.
Would love to see Pittsburgh build a team worthy of the great sports town it is.
This would be a start.
So, maintain the status quo, then?
Yinzers want Tomlin fired because 15 straight winning seasons isn’t good enough.
Yinzers want to dismantle the Penguins and force a top 5 player in NHL history to play out his career on a rebuild because it’s been a few years since they won a Cup and the bandwagon is as fun as it was then.
The Pirates are the ONLY team in MLB that has never once drawn 2.5 million fans, even at their peak. Even the Expos did it.
What if Pittsburgh sports fans (generally speaking) are getting a team that is worthy of them and it’s the Pirates?
I’m a lifelong Steelers fan so I know the yinzers and their constant moaning.
I also see full crowds and civic pride around those franchises. I’ve seen the videos of the town loving the 70s Pirates. Heck, even the McCtuchen Pirates drew pretty well.
Should be a large attendance season with McCutchen back in the fold then
Ha ha. Well played.
Those were much better teams his first trip in Pittsburgh.
Yinzers want Tomlin fired because the team hasn’t been to the Super Bowl since 2010 and haven’t won a playoff game in 6 years
What good are winning records if they never compete for the big prize?
So the end of Ben when he was a shell of himself, the Duck year and a season with a rookie QB, then?
Yeah, big mystery why they didn’t win it all, must be Tomlin.
Yinzers have no understanding of competitive windows or that teams offer boilerplate statements. “They say their goal is to win the Super Bowl EVERY SINGLE YEAR and they haven’t done that….LOSERS!”
We’re talking 12 years since their last SB appearance, when Ben was in his prime, when they had a top rated defense and a balanced offense.
Yet in those 12 years since that last SB appearance they haven’t made it beyond the first round of the playoffs
The buck stops with Tomlin and in those 2 SBs they did appear in under his leadership, the majority of those players were drafted by Cowher
So, the buck stops with Tomlin, but the credit goes to Cowher.
Got it.
Appreciate you providing an example for my point.
Enjoy the Pirates. Well earned.
Pirates simply cannot afford to extend him at the terms he’s demanding. If you look at their revenue streams and non-player costs, if they gave him what he wants he’d be taking up something like a quarter of what they can afford in player personnel before going into the red. Nutting is a terrible owner who cares about profit first, yes, but it’s ALSO true that the Pirates revenue is weak and extending Reynolds at this expensive stage would be a big mistake. Both are true. Math is math, and I know people will say “oh they have plenty of money.” And those people will just be making a convenient assumption that isn’t true. Besides, they have two better players on the left side of their infield that they need to extend first, and they’re much cheaper.
They already extended Hayes. And yes, they do have more than enough to extend Reynolds.
They offered Reynolds more than Hayes. What Reynolds wants to sign now is to get paid for 5-7 of his FA years at a value that he and his agent believe he would command after the 2025. At least half of the league would not want to pay him huge money into his age 36-38 seasons. A lot of risk involved. Have been a Bucs fan since the 60’s. I have no issue with either side in this matter.
They’ve already extended Hayes.
Cruz has a lot to prove before he’s worth an extension. He’s a horrible defender and is realistically too tall to play SS long term. He also strikes out way too much at this point. He’s still all projection and is just as likely to become Joey Gallo. Of course that’s valuable, but not the kind of guy you build a team around.
On the other hand, with Reynolds you know you’re getting a quality and dynamic hitter with the ceiling of an all-star. What they need to do is sign Reynolds (there’s a fair price between what he’s asking and what the Pirates offered that doesn’t break their limited bank) and move him to LF and put Cruz in CF.
Thank you for saying this because the way he’s promoted you’d swear he was the second coming of A-Rod. Not saying he won’t be good but let’s see how his career materializes. He’s not there yet.
Reynolds is a well above average fielding center fielder. Moving him out of cf makes absolutely no sense. Playing at a top level defensively, in addition to his offensive output, are what make him an elite, well sought – after ballplayer.
Which is why he can be a plus-defender in LF. They are still a couple years from contending, so now is a good time to see if Cruz or Bae and their excellent speed can be the long-term answer in CF. If either is a better defender than Reynolds in CF, then two positions are upgraded, as Reynolds would be an obvious upgrade in left.
Reynolds is too valuable in cf to move him. The chances of Cruz being better defensively in cf, are miniscule. Cruz, has great potential, but doesn’t really have a position, at the present time.
I don’t understand the reluctance to move Reynolds. Is his offense somehow reduced in LF? Perhaps in contrast with other LF’ers, but that doesn’t really matter. All that matters is if he can upgrade LF offensively and defensively relative to his own team, while CF possibly gets upgraded defensively (perhaps Bae is a better option than Cruz).
As great a player as Honus Wagner was, he wasn’t as good as Ty Cobb. “The Glory of Their Times”, by Lawrence Ritter, interviewed between 30 – 40 players that played with and against Cobb, Wagner and Ruth. About 80%, rated Cobb as the best player of the three greats. The baseball writers in 1936, agreed, Cobb received the most votes, followed by Ruth and Wagner, tied for second and third.
I know I have a minority opinion as my account name. It’s reference to when the two met in the World Series and Wagner significantly outplayed him.
I am a Cobb fan though, generally speaking. A tremendous player by every measure. And the negative reputation he has finally been proven to be slander. It will take time, but hopefully his reputation will recover.
When you factor in the revenue sharing money, they can afford him.
They get $60 million from the national tv deals and about $120 million from the competitive balance pool.
On top of that they keep 52% of local revenues. Which are on the low end, but still.
Milwaukee is an even smaller market and had both Cain and Yellich getting big dollars.
Every team got $65MM from national television deals and streaming rights (Apple, Peacock, etc) before the 2022 season started. MLB sold the remaining stake in BAMTech to Disney for $900MM earlier this offseason, which was divided among the 30 teams.
That’s before a single ticket is sold or a single consumer locally tunes into a game and before a single dollar of revenue sharing is considered.
I don’t know the Pirates’ revenue stream, and no one can, but the idea that they can’t possibly afford Reynolds at a $20MM price point for three or four free-agent seasons just doesn’t feel rooted in reality.
The Pirates have $7MM on the books each season from 2024-27 and $8MM on the books in 2028-29.
If you want to argue that Reynolds isn’t worth that type of salary, that’s a separate subject. But the even if the Pirates’ payroll is capped at $100MM per season (it’s not, but sure, let’s roll with it), one of the very points of a rebuild is to amass enough cheap talent that you can afford to pay closer to market value for player or two.
Also, they already extended Ke’Bryan Hayes (8/70). He’s that $7-8MM annually on their payroll through 2029. They only have one extension candidate on the left side of the infield (Cruz, who carries a fair bit of risk, upside notwithstanding).
Not trying to turn this into a “players versus owners” debate, but the notion that any Major League team, with the inherent revenue from national TV deals and multi-year streaming pacts that have been brokered in recent seasons, cannot afford a single $20MM+ player just isn’t one that I can buy.
The point is they can afford a SINGLE 20 million plus player ONLY, and it better be the right one over the length of the deal or it could set the franchise back a decade.
While a large market team could afford half a dozen and miss on half and not blink.
That’s the problem small markets have versus the large markets that drive salaries through the roof.
But MLB based in NYC continues to look the other way as the sport is dying in flyover country.
Yes they do. Spend Nutting, win Nutting.
Apparently you don’t know what their revenue stream is or their operating budget
Nutting has made a profit of at least $50 million in each of the last five years
Forbes publishes teams revenue and profits every spring
Forbes is estimating as most clubs are private.
What you can do is take public information like the national tv deal and revenue sharing pool ensuring Nutting $180 million plus 52% of his local revenue.
We know all MLB teams got another $30 million from MLBAM.
We know Nutting only contributed $40 million to build the stadium and that his lease is only $100k per year plus 5-10% of ticket sales over $44 million.
We know his payrolls are microscopic.
So last year Nutting took in $210 million plus 52% of local revenues to pay $55 million in player payroll and $100k in lease plus other operating expenses.
That’s a cool $145 million plus 52% of local revenues to pay for by far the least expensive parts of owning a team.
He has zero incentive to win.
Come on Pirates stop being the cheap team that’s been on display for years.Pirate fans should get a medal for supporting this team.
Reynolds kind of reminds me of Adames on the brewers. Great player and a player you want, but certainly not in that superstar caliber class
Good comparison…..Reynolds isn’t the Superstar he thinks he is unless he plays like one beginning now……good player certainly, but not elite and worthy of the kind of money/assets teams will pay for…..remember, any trading team will not only have to fork over high level player assets, but pay this guy a kings ransom to avoid an unhappy ballplayer who plays well, but doesn’t play at that elite level…..
Right. And how much longer will he be a CF? He’s already a middling at best defensive CF and his value drops significantly when he moves to a corner OF spot. I don’t hear this being mentioned enough.
Reynolds is well above average defensively. Moving to a corner outfield position hasn’t been mentioned, because unless he gets injured, center field will be the position Reynolds will be playing, for many years to come.
I don’t think he seems himself as a superstar, nor is he asking superstar money. He probably sees himself as the best player on his team, which he is. He also sees himself as an all-star caliber player who should be paid as such. He should absolutely have a deal comparable to Castellanos at the very least.
What’s crazy is it seems like there are very few superstar CF nowadays. It was the premier position for so long.
We’re in a golden age of shortstops, so I guess tyat offsets it.
They should move a good bit closer to his asking price, and front loading the first two years while they have few other large financial commitments. Then doing the same for Cruz in two years. And so on. Spread out the financial commitment to benefit the players getting more early on, while evening out your year by year payroll. Now that they’re done tanking, they should look to commit $ now for future performance instead of waiting and not being able to afford to sign/extend everyone at the same time.
I am surprised that he’s not a Yankee by now.
Steve has pointed out that he should exceed 15 million average for his last arbitration go arounds. The onus is on the owner to put up or……. do nothing, or trade him. Because the ask is great in trade, and there is no real immediate need to trade or extend, it makes sense to take a wait and see approach. It might behoove them to up the ante somewhat.
Pirates at 76 million, Reynolds at 126. 3 more years to free agency and he knows he will not get mega deal at 31. No team is going to pony up and pay him for free agent money for 3 arb years. Mets gave Nimmo his money AFTER his arb years. Major difference is Nimmo came direct out of high school and Reynolds went 3 years at Vandy. Those are the 3 arb years he is paying for now. Guessing 30 million for last 3 arb years, leaves 3 free agency years at 20 million each. Would get Pirates to 90 milion. Difference becomes about 35 million, cost of his 3 years of education at college. He has no leverage, hence why he is open to an extension. Expecting team to pony up for his decision to go to college won’t work. Not to mention his best defensive years were in left field, in center his numbers have declined.
You’re allocating $30 million for his last three years in arbitration when that’s only enough to cover two. No wonder your proposal is off. I also have no idea how that fact that he went to college has anything to do with this.
If his 2023 value is $9 million (as explained by his two year deal from last year), then it’s pretty easy to imagine going to $13 million next year and $17 million after that. Those are the first two years of the “extension.” Even if he just signs for $20 million per year in free agency, that’s an additional $80 million over four years which means you’re looking at 6/110.
And if you think no one will give a big contract to someone in their 30s, I’d tell you to look back at the entire offseason.
Pretty simple really, if he had chosen to skip college, he would likely have been a free agent this year like Nimmo. 3 more years of arb control, not only that, 3 prime years. He made this choice and is now stuck with it. He has no means to force this issue. Even the spend happy Mets forced Nimmo to play through his arb years.
Reynolds chose to take 13.5 million for 2 years, 6.75 million per year. Going to arb next year not from 9 million, but 6.75 as signed. He may get 30 over the next two years but that is rolling the dice and he now realizes he should revisit negotiations. As cheap as the Pirates are, I would assume the figure Pirates will max out between 84-90 for 6 years. Justifying Reynolds get the 20 million a year as a centerfielder is a reach. More apt to be valued at 15 million a corner outfielder would command.
As for the plethora of 31 year old outfielders getting paid, only 11 of the 36 free agent outfielders that age have signed. Mitch Haniger getting a 3 year deal at 43.5 million. None of the other 10 got more than a 1 year deal. If he gets moved back to left field, justifying giving him 20 million a year not likely in the cards. His Outs Above Average was -7, the seventh worst among outfielders. 6 years at 110 simply doesn’t add up.
Given that his salary projection last year was around $4.5 million, a 2 year extension for $13.5 million would value last year at $4.5 million and this upcoming season at $9 million. The AAV of his extension is meaningless in this context because if he had gone to a hearing, he probably makes $4.5 million last year and $9 million this year— it just skipped that step. The salaries are designed to keep going up from there.
If his arbitration value for this year is $9 million, then it’s pretty easy to imagine his salaries for the next two years combining to be around $30 million as long as he maintains his performance. (You’re also discounting the effect of being a Super 2 player and going through arbitration four times instead of three.) I think that any extension buying out free agent years starts at 2/30 and then goes up based on what you value him in free agency. In your case, you’d value his first four free agency years at about $54-60 million total.
I don’t think Haniger is a good comp, especially since he can’t stay healthy. If he had any track record of health, he’d be making more than what he signed for, so comparing a healthy Reynolds to an injured Haniger doesn’t make a ton of sense.
I also think it’s not a perfect argument to use his defensive stats in center against him if you think he moves to a corner. Kyle Schwarber has cost as many runs in a *corner* as Reynolds has in *center*, and he signed for about $20 million a year last offseason. If you value his difference in power that much more highly then go for it, but since Reynolds debuted in 2019 they have the exact same OPS+ in that time. Schwarber has a lot more power but Reynolds gets on base a fair bit more.
You keep referring to 4.5 million and 9 million as his arb figures for last year and this year. Per contract, he signed, 6.75 million per year. So per arbitration and CBA agreement, if he goes to arbitration next year it will not be based on an estimate of 9 million, but the actual contract of 6.75 million. This will make it far more difficult to hit 30 million for the last 2 years of arbitration and Nutting was counting on that when the contract was configured. Arbitration is not estimate based, but rather based on actual figures.
Cannot compare Reynolds to any free agents as he is 3 years away from being a free agent. By the time he hits free agency, he will be 31, you implied to check the off-season signings to reference large contracts signed. Using 31 years as the starting point and only outfielders as position parameters, Haniger was the only outfielder 31 and over to net more than a 1-year contract out of 36 free agent outfielders.
Nimmo has 3 more years of service time than Reynolds and has proven himself worthy as a 28-year-old hitting his prime. Reynolds too is hitting his prime, yet with 3 years of arbitration play left to complete, based on the CBA negotiated by players and owners. Demanding a trade won’t change that. Free agency at 31 will find him playing left field and lucky to get 3-4 years near Haniger’s average of 14.5 million over 3 years. 30 million for the last 2 years of arbitration and 54-60 for 4 years of free agency is generous. All Reynolds value lies in the next 3 prime years and because he wants free agent money for those years doesn’t make it happen.
Signing Hayes to a team friendly contract doesn’t signal much of a change in direction. The only one tanking more is a clown at a carnival. Time to throw a tent over this circus.
If they believe in him as a player they really should increase their offer and try to keep him. He will only get more expensive as time goes on assuming he performs.
is Jazz Chisholm Jr. really any good at all? Would much rather have Bryan Reynolds in the lineup than Chisholm
Miami has more than enough pitching to spare Eury
Hopefully this deal gets done before the first spring training game
If you’re telling me it take Chisholm/Eury Perez, plus to get Reynolds (which it will) — then I’d stick with what you got. You don’t know what you have in Chisholm due to some injuries. Move him from SS to CF and his defense will most likely be much better than Reynolds, who is a not a CF. Jazz has some contact issues, but big pop, but if you have plus-defense in CF with big pop from him, you’re already coming out ahead.
Factor in Eury Perez, one of the top SP prospects in MLB, and a gargantuan human being — and I don’t want to see him anywhere else. MIA has almost no trade capital except for pitching — and they shouldn’t just give that away for someone like Reynolds that they might not be able to extend, and has some offensive issues in the past. He’s not the final piece in MIA, they need a lot more offense.
no I am saying that Miami is punting on improving and settling on playing Chisholm out of position instead of jumping in the pool and giving the Pirates what they want for a bonified hitter in Bryan Reynolds
Should change the name to the Miami Sheep
Lewin BUST
Monte BUST
Jazz BU….
What I’m saying is why pay a ridiculous ask (presumably) for 3 years of Reynolds when he’s not the answer? Progress — sure. But Pirates are one of the worst teams in MLB WITH him, now you’re talking about acquiring him and weakening you’re only trade capital in a big way, while needing to address other areas? And, whose to say he’ll continue to be that great of a hitter? He was a 127 OPS+ in 2022, which is good, but not great. No reason to think he’ll be much better in that large ballpark in front of less fans than even PIT. And if you’re playing him “out-of-position” in CF, you’re not maximizing his value. (Yes, he’s played CF, but his def is questionable as a CF).
You putting Jazz in the same convo as Lewin/Monte just says you’re not really great at grading player evaluations. Certainly not enough to justify pulling the plug on a pre-arb player putting up above-average defense, average offense and star qualities that bring the few out to the ballpark.
the Pirates being aweful and trading few performing players for prospects is a known constant
the Marlins on the other hand are known for being cavalier with prospects in order to obtain whats needed to win (Sheffield, Daulton, Cabrera, Lowell)
this is why yinz have two rings because you have never been hesistant to bring in ringers
until now because you have a GM that capitulates
here are some more wasted opportunities to cash in your prospects for value Meyer, Sixto, Watson, Victor Victor, Brinson, Sierra, and the list goes on
You either haven’t seen Reynolds play cf much, or you aren’t able to evaluate his defensive ability. He is one of the best fielding cf’s in baseball. That is the main reason why his trade value is so high. There are quite a few corner outfielders that can hit, however very few that can play at a high level in center field, and hit as well as Reynolds does.
He’s average at best. His trade value isn’t high because of this. Exactly why he hasn’t been traded.
I can’t believe they wouldn’t be willing to sign this guy to a reasonable deal like 6/120 just to keep their fans from hating them even more. Even if he tailed off towards the end of the extension and you had to put him in LF, that’s still a productive player making a very reasonable salary.
That’s not reasonable. That’s awful. Huge over pay. Pirate fans couldn’t possibly hate Nutting anymore. Like any other teams fans most of them aren’t smart. They want Nutting to spend 100 million every year so they can constantly be a 70 80 win team.
It’s not perfect, but Brandon Nimmo is at least a decent comp for what Reynolds’ free agent years would cost.
Interestingly enough, since 2019 (when Reynolds debuted), Nimmo has a 129 OPS+ compared to Reynolds at 127. Reynolds has nearly 500 more at bats in that time, and his slugging numbers are a good deal better although Nimmo has a decent edge in getting on base and has actually still drawn more walks in that time. He’s also a better defender, but Reynolds is closer to a middle of the order hitter and has a much better chance of staying healthy.
Anyway, Nimmo got $20.25 million a year in free agency this year. Even if you assume that his AAV is slightly lower because he got a longer deal, $22.5 million a year for Reynolds in free agency seems fair. So when you count the two arb years he has left, you’re looking at around 6/120 which is about what his agents are apparently looking for.
Sounds like something a weak ran team would do. I would advise never ever paying what a players agent is looking for.
You’re missing the point if your only takeaway from that is the end of the last sentence. I don’t care if that’s what his agents want or not (and I’m also not a Pirates fan). I’m saying that his approximate market value falls in line closer to what his camp wants than what the Pirates want.
There isn’t a comp even close to what their ask is.
As bryan i might look for:
buy out his 2023 at 20m (13.5more than now) then next 7 years at an AAV of 18m guaranteed with a couple years of option buy outs to retire as a pirate if he is still producing a bit. Front load it as well. Total new money would be about 140m
Give him an opt out after a few years based on team record so he isn’t stuck on a losing team if prospects don’t pan out.
as a pirate front office i would do similar only with 120 new money.
meet in the middle at 130 seems good.
buy you know, that’s like my opinion man
Offer 6/100. Front load the hell out of that contract while payroll is ridiculously low. Give him 25 million/year the first two years and then 12.5 million/year the remaining four when this team is likely most competitive and could use the money to sign a FA or two. Or trade his cheap remaining contract for a big return. Won’t happen but I think it’d be smart.
2024 is the pirates time to shine assuming.. if they’re buying out 23 at say 25m and 22/16/16/14/12/10 seems like it would fit what you are looking for? I like it.
I like it but as bryan i’d like to tack on another year, as the team i’d probably want that year and maybe ones after that as options.
Tax isn’t going to be a issue so back load it to pay him weaker inflated money. If they could trade him for a big return he wouldn’t be there.
YourDreamGM:
What is my concern and i assume Kermit’s. Back loading it increases that seasons salary when the pirates are hopefully going to be doing well.
Bryan’s lowering salary over the years makes up for some of the arbitration increases which would also leave more room for signings to fill any gaps they may have.
side bonus… if his salary reduces over time then a trade is more appealing.
that’s my thinking anyway… spend when you got the wiggle room, prepare for when you may not.
Money is money and a budget is budget. Doesn’t matter when you spend it. Personally and I would bet Bob is in the same. I have great investments right now. 5 years from now I have no idea. Give me money right now. Arbitration shouldn’t be a problem anyways. Anyone who doesn’t sign a team friendly contract should be traded before they start making real money.
If the Pirates don’t extend Reynolds they should look at the Atlanta model and try to extend other younger players. I think that it would cost very little to extend Bednar for example.
Everyone should try to extend young players. Pirates used to do this and it worked out well.
7 years 100 mil. Make him say no to that. Fans can say well they offered him 100 mil. I don’t want him in cf now so definitely not in his 30s. Don’t go crazy paying a corner outfielder.