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The Opener: QO Deadline, Rule 5 Deadline, Manager Of The Year

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As the offseason continues to roll along, here are three things we’ll be watching throughout the day today:

1. Qualifying Offer Decisions Due Today

The 14 players who received qualifying offers must either accept or decline the offer by 3:00p, central time this afternoon. While most of these players will make the easy and obvious decision to reject the QO, a few players have a more interesting decision on their hands. Rangers lefty Martin Perez is an example of someone who may accept a QO, though he joins Red Sox righty Nathan Eovaldi as someone who is in negotiations with his 2022 club on a multi-year deal, which could be ironed out in place of the one-year, $19.65MM QO contract. Such a deal could even occur after this deadline as passed, as was the case for Jose Abreu and the White Sox after the 2019 season. Giants outfielder Joc Pederson, Dodgers lefty Tyler Anderson and Yankees first baseman Anthony Rizzo are among the other candidates to accept the offer, though Rizzo has already reportedly drawn strong interest from the Astros even in spite of his QO.

2. Rule 5 Deadline Looms This Evening

Teams must set their 40-man rosters in advance of the upcoming Rule 5 Draft by 5:00pm central time this evening. Seeing as there was no major league phase of the Rule 5 Draft last offseason, teams will have more prospects than usual in need of protection, potentially resulting in a larger roster crunch than usual for many teams. The Rays have already made a pair of moves to clear roster space, and are expected to make more trades before the deadline tonight. While they may be among the most active teams today, it’s safe to say most teams will be making roster moves throughout the day leading up to this evening’s deadline.

3. Manager Of The Year Results Announced Tonight

Awards season continues tonight with the AL and NL Manager of the Year awards being announced this evening. In the AL, Terry Francona of the Guardians, Brandon Hyde of the Orioles, and Scott Servais of the Mariners are the finalists, while in the NL, it’ll be either Brian Snitker of the Braves, Dave Roberts of the Dodgers, or Buck Showalter of the Mets. Each finalist has an interesting case for the award to set themselves apart from the rest of the field. Francona’s Guardians achieved a surprise division title, overtaking the favored White Sox and Twins despite an extremely young roster and a far lower payroll than either of their division rivals. Hyde and the Orioles, despite not making the postseason, also massively overperformed expectations, staying in the postseason hunt through most of September after years of 100 loss seasons. Servais, meanwhile, led a Mariners club that ended the longest active playoff drought in the sport, bringing playoff baseball back to Seattle for the first time since 2001. Roberts and the Dodgers delivered a monster 111-win season that stands among the best in history, while Buck Showalter returned to the dugout to lead the Mets to a 100-win season of their own. Snitker, meanwhile, makes his case through Atlanta’s impressive September in which they ran down Showalter’s Mets for the division title. Results will be announced at 5:00pm central time this evening.

Adley Rutschman Earns Full Service Year With Rookie Of The Year Runner-Up

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Orioles catcher Adley Rutschman finished runner-up in this year’s American League Rookie of the Year balloting. While the honor went to Mariners center fielder Julio Rodríguez, the runner-up placement is a key development for Rutschman.

In order to disincentivize service time manipulation, the league and Players Association agreed to the so-called “prospect promotion incentive” in the most recent collective bargaining agreement. Any player with less than 60 days of MLB service coming into the season who placed on at least two preseason Top 100 prospect lists at Baseball America, ESPN or MLB Pipeline now receives a full year of service time if they finish in the top two in Rookie of the Year balloting. Rutschman meets that qualification, meaning he’ll earn a full year of service for the 2022 campaign. That moves his path to arbitration and free agency up a year, as he’ll now qualify for arbitration after the 2024 season and is on track to reach free agency after the 2027 campaign.

Rutschman coming up short of the hardware was more a matter of timing than any possible indictment of his performance. The first overall pick in the 2019 draft, the switch-hitting backstop was banged up in Spring Training and eventually started the year in the minors. He played 20 minor league games before getting his first big league call in late May, a time when Rodríguez had already cemented himself among the AL favorites.

As soon as he got to the big league level, Rutschman emerged as Baltimore’s top position player. He hit .254/.362/.445 with 13 home runs across 470 plate appearances. Among 29 catchers with at least 300 plate appearances, Rutschman trailed only Toronto’s Alejandro Kirk in on-base percentage and finished eighth in slugging. The former Oregon State star also threw out 11 of 36 attempted base-stealers, rated as 18 runs above average with the glove by measure of Defensive Runs Saved and immediately stepped in to lead a generally young pitching staff.

Rutschman is arguably already one of the sport’s top three catchers, and his arrival helped kick off an incredible midseason turnaround for the O’s. 16-24 at the time of his promotion, Baltimore went 67-55 after his call-up and shocked much of the baseball world by flirting with Wild Card contention into September. They didn’t make the postseason, but they were far better than most expected and have positioned themselves for a more active offseason than they’ve had since starting their rebuild. Rutschman isn’t responsible for the Orioles turnaround alone, but he’s no doubt the biggest part of what’s an increasingly promising team.

Unlike the Mariners, the Orioles will not receive a bonus draft pick for Rutschman’s finish. Seattle earns an extra selection because Rodríguez, who also met the criteria as a consensus top prospect preseason, would have qualified for a full year of service independent of the award finish based on the team carrying him on the MLB roster for at least 172 days. Rutschman was on the roster for 138 days and would not have earned a full service year in 2022 if not for his top-two finish.

Julio Rodriguez Wins American League Rookie Of The Year Award

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Mariners center fielder Julio Rodríguez has won the Rookie of the Year award in the American League for 2022, according to an announcement from the Baseball Writers Association of America. Orioles catcher Adley Rutschman finished second in the voting, while Guardians outfielder Steven Kwan checked in third.

This year’s rookie class in the Junior Circuit was remarkable, headlined by Rodríguez and Rutschman. The pair of top prospects both hit the ground running against MLB pitching. Seattle carried Rodríguez on the roster as their Opening Day center fielder, looking to build off their surprising 90-win campaign in 2021. The young outfielder got off to a tough start, thanks in part to a number of questionable strike calls in the early going, but he eventually emerged as the best position player on a good Seattle club.

Over 560 plate appearances, Rodríguez posted a .284/.345/.509 line. He connected on 28 home runs and swiped 25 bases in 32 attempts, one of just four players (Kyle Tucker, Adolis García and Marcus Semien being the others) to reach 25 longballs and steals apiece. Rodríguez was particularly electric in the second half, putting up a .303/.361/.576 line coming out of the All-Star Break to help Seattle cruise to its first postseason appearance in more than two decades.

Rodríguez also impressed on the other side of the ball, starting 130 games and playing 1126 2/3 innings in center field. Both Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast credited him with above-average defense, no small feat for a player whom some prospect evaluators suggested might be a better fit for right field. The 21-year-old looks to have put any questions about his defensive home to bed for the time being.

While Rodríguez is surely thrilled to secure Rookie of the Year honors on its own merits, the selection has a tangible effect on the team as well. The new collective bargaining agreement contained measures designed to counteract service time manipulation through the so-called “prospect promotion incentive.” Top-two Rookie of the Year finishers who were Top 100 prospects on at least two preseason lists at Baseball America, ESPN and MLB Pipeline are automatically credited with a full service year. That’s a moot point for Rodríguez, who’d have qualified for a full service year after tallying 172-plus days on the MLB roster regardless. He also signed a massive contract extension midseason that overwrites his path to arbitration and free agency.

The second portion of the PPI does come into effect, though. A team that promotes a player for a full service year who meets the aforementioned prospect criteria and entered the year with less than 60 days of MLB service who subsequently finishes top two in ROY balloting (or top three in Cy Young or MVP voting during their pre-arbitration seasons) earns a bonus draft pick after the first round. Seattle carried Rodríguez on the roster all year, so they’ll collect an extra pick in the 2023 draft in recognition of his achievements.

Rutschman and Kwan check in as runners-up after very strong years in their own right. Baltimore’s catcher hit .254/.362/.445 with 13 home runs in 470 plate appearances. His second-place finish earns him a full year of service time as well. Kwan doesn’t that get that honor for third place, but he earned a full service year after breaking camp in Cleveland regardless. Rutschman’s former teammate at Oregon State, Kwan hit .298/.373/.400 across 638 plate appearances to help the Guards to a division title.

Rodríguez received 29 of 30 first-place votes, while Rutschman collected the other. Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith, the lone voter to place Rutschman ahead of Rodríguez, explained his thought process in a well-reasoned Twitter thread. Rodríguez was the only player to be named on all 30 ballots. Rutschman was selected on 28 ballots, while Kwan earned 24 combined second or third-place votes. Royals shortstop Bobby Witt Jr., Astros shortstop Jeremy Peña and Mariners righty George Kirby also picked up some support.

Full vote breakdown found here.

The Opener: Approaching Deadlines, Montero, Orioles

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With more offseason deadlines on the horizon, here’s three things we’ll be keeping an eye on around the baseball world today:

1. Qualifying offer, Rule 5 deadlines likely to spur movement

Two major offseason deadlines are coming tomorrow, which will likely be the focus of much of the offseason movement that happens today. Qualifying offer recipients must accept or reject the QO by 4pm EST tomorrow, and 40-man rosters must be set ahead of the Rule 5 Draft by 6pm EST tomorrow. The QO deadline could certainly see some recipients with less expected earning power, such as Joc Pederson or Martin Perez, either accept the QO or negotiate a multi-year deal with their previous team — perhaps after initially accepting, as Jose Abreu did during the 2019-20 offseason. While the names weighing the QO might garner more attention, it’s the Rule 5 deadline that will lead to more immediate action. Teams need to make room on their 40-man rosters for any prospects they want to protect from the Rule 5 Draft, which will require adding them to the 40-man roster. That forthcoming wave of additions will lead to a slew of players being designated for assignment, placed on waivers and perhaps traded, as teams create space on the fringes of their roster. This could also lead to some early non-tenders of arbitration-eligible players, as the Nov. 18 non-tender deadline is quickly approaching, too. As Mark Polishuk noted last night, the Rays figure to be one of the most proactive teams in terms of clearing up their 40-man roster in the coming days, having already shipped first baseman Ji-Man Choi to Pittsburgh last week.

2. Montero contract provides another data point on the relief market

In Friday’s Opener, I discussed the surprisingly strong relief market that relief pitchers have found this offseason, and how it could translate to the other relievers on the market. Rafael Montero indeed secured a third year on his new contract with the Astros, as predicted on MLBTR’s Top 50 free agent list, but his $34.5MM guarantee handily exceeded expectations. If that amount doesn’t seem particularly striking to you, consider righty Kendall Graveman, another former Astros/Mariners setup man, signed a three-year $24MM deal last winter despite being a year younger at the time of signing. Montero stands as a third pricey relief re-signing, to go with Edwin Diaz and Robert Suarez.

3. How aggressive will the Orioles be this offseason?

Orioles general manager Mike Elias pledged in August that payroll will rise in 2023 — though it’d be hard for it to decline much over its 2022 levels — which prompted many O’s fans to dream of marquee free-agent splashes as the team emerges from its rebuild. Over the weekend, however, Elias stated that the Orioles will not “go from zero miles an hour to 60 miles an hour in one offseason,” which casts doubt on whether the team will jump right into the deep end of the free-agent pool. At present, John Means’ $2.975MM salary is the only guarantee on the Orioles’ books, though between arbitration projections and a slate of pre-arb players to round out the roster, they project for a total of about $41MM, per Roster Resource’s Jason Martinez. There’s ample space for multiple additions to the payroll, then, be it via free agency or perhaps by way of acquiring an established veteran in exchange for some minor league talent. With an impressive young core featuring the likes of Adley Rutschman, Gunnar Henderson, Cedric Mullins, Ryan Mountcastle and Austin Hays — plus righty Grayson Rodriguez and several more top prospects looming — the Orioles appear on the cusp of a return to contention — if they can make the right moves to supplement that group. With so much payroll space available and a deep farm from which to trade for Major League talent, they’re one of the most fascinating clubs of the offseason.

Mike Elias Discusses Orioles’ “Win-Now Mode” Offseason

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Orioles general manager Mike Elias spoke with reporters (including MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko and The Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham) at the GM Meetings about some of Baltimore’s winter plans, as the club looks to build on its surprising 83-win season.  While Elias noted that “we’re not going to go from zero miles an hour to 60 miles an hour in one offseason,” he left no doubt that the O’s are moving beyond their multi-year rebuild strategy.

“Our objective this winter is to add to the major league roster for the purpose of getting into the playoffs.  We think that this team is ready to, hopefully, incrementally take steps forward.  We’re in win-now mode.”

This means adding some established big league talent to a roster that is still pretty young and short on experience.  However, between these younger players and other top prospects coming up from a deep minor league pipeline, Elias noted that “we have internal players at almost every spot that we think are interesting, and I think that provides us with some flexibility with which players we go after.  We’ve got some positional flexibility with our current group and that makes for a scenario where we don’t have a very specific recipe of which positions the players have to come in.”

MLBTR’s Darragh McDonald explored some of Baltimore’s options in his recent Offseason Outlook piece, such as an infield picture that has Gunnar Henderson (who could play third base, second base, or shortstop) as the only true sure thing heading into 2023.  On paper, the Orioles could stand pat with a starting infield of Henderson, Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, and Ryan Mountcastle, with the latter three players perhaps somewhat acting as placeholders until the next wave of infield prospects are ready.  Or, Baltimore could acquire a new everyday option at one of the infield spots, perhaps by trading from that infield surplus.

The rotation is perhaps an easier fit for a new veteran, especially since Jordan Lyles’ club option was declined.  As Elias noted, “we’ve got a lot of interesting starters.  But they’re not guys who have a track record of being front-end-of-the-rotation starters.  If we’re able to go out this winter and get more veteran certainty, that would be big.  We’re going to be out in the market for that, for sure.”

Re-signing Lyles also isn’t out of the question, as Elias reiterated that the Orioles’ decision to decline the right-hander’s $11MM option was more about timing than any dissatisfaction with Lyles’ performance.  “This is a big business with big money, and sometimes it just doesn’t line up at the date that we have to make these decisions,” Elias said.  “For us, with this contract with this club option, it was the fifth day after the World Series and we just weren’t ready to bring him back in that way in that point in time….I think that he’s going to have a very good free agent experience himself, and we’ll just stay in touch because I know he liked it here and we liked having him.”

A’s Sign Rico Garcia To Minor League Deal

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Oakland have agreed to terms on a minor league deal with pitcher Rico Garcia, according to A’s broadcaster Jessica Kleinschmidt. The deal comes with an invite to spring training.

Garcia, 28, appeared in six games for the Orioles in 2022, throwing eight innings of 4.50 ERA ball, giving up a pair of home runs and striking out just two batters. In 34 2/3 innings at Triple-A, Garcia had a 2.34 ERA with a 28.4% strikeout rate and 9.9% walk rate. He throws a 95mph fastball and adds in a changeup and cutter to his arsenal.

Garcia was drafted in the 30th round of the 2016 draft by the Rockies. He made his way up through Colorado’s system, debuting with a handful of innings in 2019. He was plucked off waivers by the Giants that winter and pitched ten innings of 5.40 ERA ball for them in 2020. Tommy John surgery in the spring of 2021 put an end to that campaign and he latched on with the Orioles for 2022 before being granted free agency shortly after the season.

All told, Garcia owns a lifetime 6.38 ERA across 24 innings in the big leagues. Given his solid numbers in the minors, he’ll join the A’s and provide them with some pitching depth heading into the 2023 campaign.

Orioles Outright Yusniel Diaz

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The Orioles announced a couple of roster moves, with left-hander John Means being reinstated from the 60-day injured list and outfielder Yusniel Diaz clearing outright waivers and being assigned to Triple-A Norfolk.

Diaz, 26, was once a high-profile prospect out of Cuba. He signed with the Dodgers in 2015 on a $15.5MM deal but was traded to the Orioles as part of the Manny Machado deal at the 2018 deadline. He was added to the club’s 40-man roster in November of 2020 in order to protect him from being selected in the Rule 5 draft.

The past few years haven’t been especially kind to Diaz. He split 2021 between Double-A and Triple-A, getting into 65 games but hitting just .161/.233/.265 while striking out 32.4% of the time. In 2022, he spent most of his time at Triple-A, getting into 70 games there with a slash of .251/.346/.360, wRC+ of 93. He also made his MLB debut but struck out in his only plate appearance. Diaz has seven years of minor league experience and is therefore eligible to elect minor league free agency today, though it’s unclear if he has indeed chosen to do so.

The move for Means is a formality since the injured list goes away today and doesn’t come back until Spring Training. He underwent Tommy John surgery in April and will likely be out of action until some point in 2023, depending on how his rehab proceeds.

Orioles Claim Daz Cameron

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The Orioles have claimed outfielder Daz Cameron off waivers from the Tigers, per announcements from both clubs. The Tigers added that infielder Josh Lester went unclaimed on waivers and was assigned outright to Triple-A Toledo.

Cameron, 26 in January, was the No. 37 overall pick by the Astros back in 2015, when current O’s general manager Mike Elias was the scouting director in Houston. The son of three-time Gold Glove winner Mike Cameron, Daz at one point ranked among the game’s top 100 prospects at several outlets, including Baseball America and MLB.com, but has endured his share of struggles both in the upper minors and in parts of three big league seasons.

The Tigers acquired Cameron alongside Jake Rogers and Franklin Perez from the Astros in what has become an increasingly lopsided Justin Verlander trade back in 2018. Cameron has logged 73 games with Detroit over the past three seasons but managed only a .201/.266/.330 batting line through 244 trips to the plate. He hasn’t fared all that much better in Triple-A, slashing .236/.324/.398 in 1201 career plate appearances.

Cameron is out of minor league options, so if the Orioles will have to carry him on the Opening Day roster next year or else pass him through waivers at some point between now and then. For the time being, he seemingly bumps fellow righty-swinging outfielder Ryan McKenna (who does have a minor league option remaining) down the depth chart and more squarely back to the Triple-A ranks.

Lester, 28, was a 13th-round pick by Detroit back in 2015 and made his MLB debut in 2022, going hitless with three punchouts in a tiny sample of five plate appearances. He hit for plenty of power in Triple-A this past season, smashing 29 homers and 39 doubles with a .246/.311/.479 batting line in 621 trips to the plate. Lester has experience all over the infield but primarily played first base and in the outfield corners with Toledo in 2022.

Orioles Decline Club Option On Jordan Lyles

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12:55pm: The Orioles confirmed that Lyles’ option has indeed been declined.

12:47pm: The Orioles have declined their $11MM club option on Jordan Lyles, tweets Jon Heyman of the New York Post. He’ll instead be paid a $1MM buyout and become a free agent.

Despite coming off a pair of rough seasons in Texas, Lyles landed a surprisingly strong $7MM guarantee with Baltimore just prior to the league’s implementation of last winter’s 99-day lockout. The veteran righty, who just turned 32 a couple weeks ago, gave the O’s everything they could’ve reasonably hoped for and generally succeeded in turning that modest investment into a bargain.

Through a team-high 179 innings, Lyles posted a 4.42 ERA with an 18.6% strikeout rate, a strong 6.7% walk rate and a 40.2% ground-ball rate. The innings were particularly vital for a Baltimore club that was generally relying on young, unproven arms who cycled through the other four rotation spots behind Lyles. The stability he provided the team every fifth day both helped to spare the bullpen and to more effectively manage some of the workloads of an otherwise largely untested group of rotation candidates.

As MLBTR’s Anthony Franco explored recently, that steadying performance gave the team genuine cause to contemplate picking up Lyles’ option. While a net $10MM commitment (when accounting for the buyout) in the first week of the offseason would be aggressive for a pitcher who’s typically been more of a back-of-the-rotation arm, the O’s are still lacking in rotation certainty and have already pledged to increase payroll in 2023. Doling out a one-year pact to a veteran righty who drew heaps from a young staff that considered him a mentor and clubhouse leader might’ve been a defensible decision — particularly if Lyles were able to replicate his 2022 performance.

Instead, Lyles will return to the open market, likely in search of a multi-year commitment this time around. It stands to reason that, after landing a $7MM guarantee on the heels of a pair of dismal seasons with the Rangers, he might indeed be able to land a two-year deal with a vastly better performance now under his belt. It’s also possible that Lyles could yet return to the O’s — perhaps at a lower annual rate. Nathan Ruiz of the Baltimore Sun tweets that the Orioles issued a statement that while they preferred to let the pitching market develop rather than exercise Lyles’ option at this time, they’ll remain in touch with him and will not rule out a return at a later date.

Though he’s just 32 years old, Lyles already has more than 11 years of Major League service time under his belt. Selected by the Astros with the No. 38 overall pick back in 2008, he ranked among the sport’s top pitching prospects during his minor league days and ascended to the Majors before he’d even turned 21. It’s arguable that the ’Stros rushed him to the Majors, as he never really found his footing early on and still has a career track record featuring more valleys than peaks.

Still, Lyles had success with the Padres in 2018, with the Brewers in 2018-19, and now with the Orioles in 2022. He’s been a durable source of solid innings for the bulk of the past five seasons, which should make him an appealing option for teams that, as the 2022 Orioles were, are on the lookout for a veteran rotation stabilizer with a good chance to make 30-plus starts and generally keep the team in the game.  That may not sound like a glamorous role, but average innings have value — and teams pay for them every offseason.

The Opener: Click, Option Decisions, White Sox

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As the offseason continues to chug through it’s earliest stages, here are three things we’ll be keeping an eye on today:

1. Will James Click Continue As Houston’s GM?

While Dusty Baker has accepted a one-year contract extension as Astros manager, GM James Click did not do the same when owner Jim Crane offered him a one-year extension of his own, telling reporters he is “in discussions” regarding a new contract. While it’s something of a shock that the World Series-winning general manager wouldn’t receive a multi-year extension offer, as Jon Heyman of the New York Post notes, there has long been speculation of Crane looking for a change in the front office, which is only further fueled by reports that he shot down a deal for Cubs catcher Willson Contreras at the trade deadline. Heyman suggests that the Astros may have interest in David Stearns, a former Houston executive who recently stepped down from his president of baseball operations position with Milwaukee. Stearns is still under contract with the Brewers for 2023, however, so the Astros would likely need to make a minor trade along the lines of the deal between the Cubs and Red Sox to send Theo Epstein to Chicago after the 2011 season if they are to acquire his services for the 2023 season. It’s also worth noting that Stearns definitively stated upon stepping back as president he plans to remain in Milwaukee and spend more time with family.

2. Option Decisions Continue To Linger

On the eve of the deadline for options decisions, a few notable ones still linger. Perhaps the most notable player in the bunch is longtime Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner, on whom the club faces a $14MM decision on. A strong second half made what once seemed like an easy decision to decline the option much less clear cut. That being said, with players like Miguel Vargas and Michael Busch waiting in the wings, the Dodgers may prefer their younger internal options going forward. A few clubs also having intriguing option decisions to make in the rotation, most notably the Mets on Carlos Carrasco and the Orioles on Jordan Lyles. Both teams are relatively thin on proven rotation arms (the Mets thanks to other potential free-agent departures), so locking up a starter for 2023 could make sense for either club. That said, the $10MM the Orioles would spend on Lyles may be better served allocated to another starter with, perhaps, a higher ceiling, while the Mets may prefer to search for a younger option for their rotation than Carrasco, who will play 2023 at age 36. Aside from Carrasco, the Mets have Max Scherzer, 38, under contract for next season and are reportedly expressing interest in reunions with Jacob deGrom and Chris Bassitt, who are both in their mid-thirties.

3. White Sox Have Plenty Of Needs This Offseason

After a disappointing 81-81 season and with many holes to fill on the roster, the White Sox will need to be active this offseason. In addition to longtime first baseman Jose Abreu hitting free agency, outfielder AJ Pollock declined his player option in a surprising move, and Chicago declined to exercise their option on second baseman Josh Harrison. While these option decisions have saved the club some money (Pollock’s decision in particular saves Chicago $8MM), they still might not have a lot to spend this offseason. RosterResource estimates their 2023 payroll to be just over $174MM, not far below their all-time record payroll of $194MM in 2022. The Athletic’s James Fegan notes that while Hahn has expressed confidence in top prospect Oscar Colas as an outfield regular in 2023, he similarly noted the possibility that Eloy Jimenez will spend more time at DH going forward, leaving the club in position to pursue outfield options regardless of Colas’s readiness for an everyday major league role, particularly with Pollock’s departure meaning their best internal fourth outfielder is Adam Engel. Given most of the Chicago lineup is right-handed, an outfielder who can hit from the left side, such as Joc Pederson, or the switch-hitting Jurickson Profar, would make sense as a target. As for second base, Chicago’s dearth of production at the position in recent years makes them an obvious fit for Jean Segura, but a lower-cost option such as Adam Frazier could also make sense.

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