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The Yankees and Jacque Jones

Critics of Jacque Jones have backed off this season, given that he's currently hitting .296 with 13 home runs for the Cubs.  He's been one of very few decent hitters on the team this year.  Nonetheless, this trade rumor from the New York Daily News is a breath of fresh air amidst a dismal Cubs season.

If the best Jim Hendry could do for Jones was a bag of baseballs, he should make that deal.  Even if it'd be kind of dumb from New York's point of view.  Jones is owed $9MM for 2007-08, his age 32 and 33 seasons.  Baseball Prospectus figures him to be worth just a touch over $4MM over that span.  Now is the time for Hendry to sell high.  Jones has a mediocre but excellent for him OBP of .329 right now.  It's entirely propped up by his .296 average, which is highly unlikely to last when he's putting the bat on the ball less than 80% of the time.  One would also expect his .522 slugging percentage to plummet, as he hasn't been over .500 since 2002.

The Cubs' outfield replacement options at Triple A are grim: Michael Restovich, Buck Coats, Felix Pie, Luis Montanez, and Brandon Sing.  None are good options this year, but it's a lost season.  Just shed the Jones contract and take another crack at fielding a decent outfield next year.  Hendry failed this past offseason in that task, and can consider options like Kenny Lofton, Cliff Floyd, Luis Gonzalez, Carlos Lee, and Alfonso Soriano in the upcoming free agent market.  Adding a second Lee to the middle of the lineup should definitely be a major consideration.

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Cashman is pretty dim. The Cubs might be able to get Wang Chung, Cano or Hughes.

What do you think? Maybe a little Melkymania?

i would say wang is pretty much out of the question considering the yankees need as much starting pitching as they can.. at least as long as wright and chacon still have arms. cano would be a nice pickup.. but cant see the yankees giving up any of those 3 for jones.. probably end up getting some b grade prospects as usual.

probably end up getting some b grade prospects as usual

The Yankees don't have any. Eric Duncan is hitting .200. The rest, other than Tabata, are all products of the Yankee hype machine. Hendry is going to help out the Yanks just to get J. Brent Cox? 200M payroll! COME ON!!!

I say unless we get wang dont do it.

Jones' contract is so ridiculous that the Cubs would do well to get much at all. Asking for Wang, Cano, or Hughes is insulting & moronic.

Agreed Bud. You unload that contract in a heartbeat for nothing in return.

Rule #1: Never help the Yankees. Salary doesn't matter to them. They'll pay Neifi Perez 20M and do it happily.

For one you are not getting Wang or Cano Cashman shot down trading those two for Beckett. Secondly I really hope the Yankees dont get Jones, he is such a bad option I would rather have Bernie Williams out there.

Also roto, I heard somebody on another site mention the Gathright deal as a predeccesor to a three team deal involving KC, Atlanta and another team. Have you heard anything about that???

The Cubs overpaying by $2 million/yr (according to prospectus) to keep Jones in RF until a farmhand can take over is small potatoes in a $95 million payroll that is littered with overpriced and underperforming vets.

Jones will be good for 20/80/.280 the next 2 years, more than can be said about his 2 predecessors (and the other current Cub outfielders). The Cubs have noone that is ready for MLB and as mentioned above, the Yanks have no good prospects either. Keep him.

I don't think Jones will be good for .280-20-80, but his batting average and RBI total is irrelevant. I think he'll be yet another Cub with a terrible OBP, another out machine taking up a roster spot.

It's still an awful contract, and if the Cubs are trying to win in 2007 (I think they are) then they need to do better. The average RF hits about .281/.349/.474, and Jones can't do that. The Cubs can't afford to be below average at so many positions.

If you can use prospectus to determine his value, then using his average seasonal stats of .280/.327/.459 (23/80) is completly reasonable, and is pretty close to the "average" right fielder. And keep in mind that he has little to no protection in a Cub lineup that is last in almost every offensive statistical category in the NL.

Jones as an "out machine" is still a higher OBP, AVG and fewer Ks than RFs the Cubs have had since '02. Granted, Jones is a poor fielder and terrible against LHP, so why not platoon a Cub prospect against lefties until he overtakes Jones or the contract runs out (is eaten)?

The Cubs are below average in plenty of other positions besides RF. Worse comes to worse, eating the last year of this contract would be a drop in the bucket in payroll terms.

Does anyone else think this is a ploy to lure Torii Hunter to NY? Jacque and Torii are good friends, and having JJ in the OF would probably be enough incentive ($$ aside, of course) for Torii to find a way into pinstripes.

If the yankees get Jones there would be no room for Hunter

CF-Damon
RF-Jones
LF-Matsui
DH-Giambi

I guess they could do it if they left the defensive liability at first and made Matsui the DH and moved Damon to Right and Jones to left but it would probaly be smarter to let the yankees spend money of middle relief starting pitching and a good defensive first baseman if they dont already have one in Phillps

If the yankees get Jones there would be no room for Hunter

You know, it's quite possible that Hunter doesn't go to the Yankmees.

In a different matter can anyone tell me home many times Kerry Wood Has been on the DL in his career i cant find were i can find that stat?

Am I the only one that thinks shefield's option will almost definitely be picked up?

I've been clamoring for the Yankees to take Jones' contract off our hands since Matsui went down. This would be a huge deal for the sake of the 2007 and beyond, Cubs roster

I think this is Kerry Woods' 11th time on the DL. Hopefully the last time for the Cubs, unless he plays for free.

I would love to see how Yankees fans react when Jocko Jones throws a 15 hopper to the cutoff man as he has done at least a dozen times this year. Jacque Jones SUCKS!

Fal I would almost guarantee the Yankees dont pick up Sheffields option. A wrist injury is real bad for someone with as violent a swing as sheffield. Add to that that he is 38 and there is no way he is worth 13 million next year

Jones isnt going anywhere this year. The free agent market in the offseason isnt very strong especially for OF. The yankees have nothing they are willing to give up that will be worth it for the cubs to take.

"The free agent market in the offseason isnt very strong especially for OF."

Are you kidding sure there are no Vladamir Guerrero's or Manny Ramirez's but its pretty deep-

Jose Guillen
Trot Nixon
Jermaine Dye
Moises Alou
Aubrey Huff
Kenny Lofton
Cliff Floyd
Carlos Lee
Alfonso Soriano

Sure some of these guys are injury prone but when healthy are very solid outfielders that i think are all better then Jones


Jose Guillen=so so
Trot Nixon=injury prone
Jermaine Dye= staying put
Moises Alou=old
Aubrey Huff=horrible
Kenny Lofton=old but not bad
Cliff Floyd=would be nice
Carlos Lee=everyone will try to sign him.
Alfonso Soriano= never want him playing for the cubs ever.

1.)Guillen-Maybe Washingtons park is effecting his numbers and was hurt to start the year

2.)Nixon-Yes injury prone but no injuries this year and a very solid outfielder

3.)Dye-What makes you think he is staying put?

4.)Alou-I will give you Alou with the oldness.

5.)Huff-I know he has been struggling this year but i am going to say it was the injury he did have 22 homers and 92 rbis last year i know the obp and average were down but a decent option as a risk to a 1 year deal

6.)Lofton-Aggreed

7.)Floyd-Aggreed

8.)Lee-Now your point earlier was "The free agent market in the offseason isnt very strong especially for OF." so that makes him a week option because other teams will want him?Please explain.

8.)Soriano-Just because you dont want him on the Cubs doesnt me he isnt a solid outfield option!


Ok my point of free agents not being strong this coming offseason is that other than Lee, marquis,mulder,and zito it is pretty weak after that.Mainly because all the players are like 34 and up.I think dye will stay with the white sux because this is where he has performed the best.And soriano isnt a solid option, he is brutal on defense and K's way too much I would prefer to stick with jones over him.Guillen didnt have the problems last year so why now?Huff eiye is hit or miss, I think he is better at 3b than the outfield, but if he can become his old self after this season he would be pretty cheap. I would like for the cubs to get carlos lee more than anything but its going to cost a lot.

"I think dye will stay with the white sux because this is where he has performed the best"-Ok that same situation worked with Johnny Damon right? And Pedro Martinez? And Billy Wagner?

Just because a player is over 34 doesnt make him a bad option fot next season

Was Guillen hurt last year?Thats wyh the numbers are down that why there now an injury!

Huff like i said is a risk but the Cubs did it with Wade Miller wether you think he is better for third then outfield he does play outfield

Well giving money is better then prospects

Yeah and how is wade miller doing? One player that is a free agent next year that will kinda fly under the radar is Gil Meche. He wont be as much as marquis,mulder,zito. Not as good but is a solid P.

I never said that Wade Miller was a good move all I said was Huff is a risk(yes a better risk the Miller) and i wouldnt be surprised if they took a chance on huff maybe hes this year's Mike Lowell?Why do you Marquis and Mulder are so good?

Mulder-6.09 era

Marquis-5.53 era

By the way they are both pitching in the NL-Now your argument about about these two pitchers could be "didnt have the problems last year so why now?" or great pitchers before last year they must be hurt now if that excuse isnt good enough for Guillen then its not for these pitchers.

ALways have been a major Gil Meche fan!

Okay, you kind of sound like a Braves shill. Here's the problems I have with your suppositions:

#1- No, it is not a fact that Andruw Jones will decline. There are any number of instances of players who do not decline into their 30s. Jim Edmonds, Brian Giles, etc. have been worth their money up to 35. What you're talking about is opinion, not fact. Furthermore, it's still probably a better idea to overpay Jones to some degree than to have to go out and replace him. 30 HR amazing defensive center fielders do not grow on trees. It's highly likely Jones would give the team some kind of home discount, which would make trading him even more ill-advised.

#2- As a GM, it's what you do lately that counts. Many guys are just resting on their laurels. Heck, back when Jim Hendry was giving up spare parts for Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, and Nomar Garciaparra, I thought he was pretty good. Now, ugh. Schuerholz has done it in the past, but he's not doing it now. His moves have looked increasingly sketchy. Capellan for Kolb. Miner is producing for the Tigers, where is Farnsworth? Trading J.D. Drew for a one year stopgap may have helped back then, but not now. He overestimated his talent - Davies, Horacio Ramirez, and Jorge Sosa are not great pitchers. Francoeur looks more like a lefty-mashing, righty-struggling platoon guy than a legitimate stud. You can't be "one step ahead of everyone else" by being ready to firesale at this point in the season. What is the admiration for firesaleing GMs, anyway? It's what you do when there's nothing else to do. It requires no great craft, intelligence, or cunning. Maybe 8 years ago it was novel enough for this kind of admiration. Not now.

#3- Your rejoinder about Kenny Williams and Javier Vazquez was weak. No, I didn't think that at the time, and the idea that the White Sox have the money or the will to get six $10 million starters is rather farfetched and without base.

#4- Does it matter if Gathright is the fastest guy in baseball when he has a sub-.600 OPS? He's closer to being Nook Logan, Alex Sanchez, or Willie Harris than a real impact player. The game is called baseball, not "I can jump over cars."

#5- I'm not sure Hudson is going to bring back the big return you think or that trading him so soon after he was gotten looks like the hallmark of a guy who is one step ahead of everyone else. Trading Smoltz? Yeesh. Would the Orioles have traded Ripken Jr? Maybe you get some useful prospects, or maybe you get future busts.

In any event, I don't see the Braves in any kind of wily position like you've painted them. Oh boy, a firesale. They can join the ranks of the oft-rebuilding Brewers, Marlins, and Royals.

Praising Schuerholz does not make one a shill. You are assuming a bias that is just not there.

Of COURSE it's not factual that Andruw Jones will decline. No projection has ever been a fact; I think that is implied when making a projection. It's just what's most likely based on data. What is your point here? That there are exceptions to the rule and you thought of two of them? That doesn't change the factual overall trend of decline after age 27. By the way, Edmonds and Giles aged well in large part because players retain the skill of plate discipline longer. Jones doesn't have that skill; he's not comparable to them.

The Braves got positive value out of Farnsworth, quite a bit. 4 starts or whatever from Miner doesn't make him a success. Look at his minor league stats instead of a tiny ML sample.

What's your point on Drew? That Schuerholz made a great trade that helped his team to the playoffs, and it's not paying off two and a half years later? Yeah, that is the idea of trading prospects for Major Leaguers - to win now. It worked.

You can't dismiss a long history of success because of one season. That is incredibly short-sighted.

Your point about firesaling, I don't agree at all. The Marlins have indeed been cunning in their firesale and could actually be competitive in 2007! How does that not require skill?

I don't know what's weak about the Vazquez point. No one saw it coming, and KW already had five good starters. With the struggles of some of the starters this year (and the Sox indeed have payroll room) it is not far-fetched to say the Sox could be interested.

Gathright hasn't played a full season in the Majors. Let's not assume we know what he can do. The players you named aer actually not all that similar to him. But again, who are you ridiculing? Everyone on the planet knows Gathright's asset is speed. We all get that. Every time Gathright comes up, there doesn't need to be a lesson on him. Common knowledge. No one here has said Gathright is the next big thing.

#5, is this even a point? Hudson won't bring a big return? Smoltz has been with the Braves a long time?

In your last paragraph, you named three completely different teams with completely different plans and histories. But yeah, they have traded veterans before so I guess the Braves somehow fit.

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