Can Mets Acquire An Ace?

Hilarious. You wouldn't trade an unknown quantity in Milledge, for a pitcher who is young and under control for 3 more years, with solid numbers over the last 3 seasons, in Blanton? A guy who would most assuredly, moving to the NL with a better offense behind him and facing weaker hitting, be a solid #2 pitcher from a #3?

shouldnt* cost us Millegde.

I dont know about you, but I wouldnt say the Marlins, Phillies and Braves are weaker then last years AL West teams. I dont have the exact stats, but you can exactly tell me you wouldnt rather face Beltre/Sexson/Guillen or Vlad/Matthews/Anderson instead of Rollins/Utley/Howard/Burrell/ or Chipper/Tex/Mccann/Franceour or Hanley/Uggla/Miggy/Jacobs/Hermida etc. Plus Blanton has peaked, he wont get better, his "stuff" isnt impressive, he is fat, and he was awful last year even pitching in Oakland. He isnt impressive at all. Add in the fact he would only be adding a number 3 to a rotation already including Maine, Perez, El Duque, Pedro. Some people would say at this point in their careers they are all number 3 guys. Then you have to sign an expensive RF replacement who is old and will block one of your young players. You end up downgrading RF, while spending more money there, and not improving your team at all. It is ridiculous.

How much of an unknown quantity is Milledge? He has had great numbers at every level of the minors, and showed great improvement in the majors from 06 to 07.

In only 184 ABs last year, Milledge had 6 win shares. In a full season of pitching. Blanton had 15, and only 10 the year before.

Glavine being an innings eater is a myth. Of El Duque, Maine, Perez, and Glavine, Tommy averaged the least innings per start. At under 6 per start, that is something that could easily be replaced by Pedro. Glavine made all of his starts, but had an era around 4.5 with under 6 innings per start. There are plenty of guys out there who can do that.

i really don't understand why anyone would think that livan hernandez or kuroda or silva or dontrelle would be better than what we've already got. why can't pedro, humber and mulvey replace glavine's innings and then some? even getting blanton for milledge creates a bigger hole (rf) than we currently (don't) have in the rotation. why bother? if we could get haren for gomez and heilman, sure, but it's simply not necessary.

So you are saying the John Maine is better than Oliver Perez?

tolo316, you could not be more wrong. At best I will give you that they are on equall footing. John Maine is good, but no where near clearly better than Oliver Perez nor Old Pedro. In case you did not know, El Duque was our best pitcher last year.

Maine's ERA was 4th best on the team.

O.P. 3.5
Pedro 2.57
Duque 3.72
Maine 3.91

Perez had better k/9 and h/9 than Maine.

Hahaha.....full year of Pedro.

Good one.

The Mets are in fairly dire need of another reliable starter and would seem to be a good suitor for Blanton.

I don't think they necessarily need an "ace", but an effective innings horse like Blanton would really help imo.

My other thought was that the Mets should take a cue for the value the Twins and Rays got.

My first thought was the Brewers. They need a closer. How about Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey for Yovani Gallardo/Manny Parra and Angel Salome. The Brewers get their closer and another starter to go into their large crop of young arms, and the Mets get a more advanced young starter and someone to fill out the lower part of their farm.

"I wouldnt even trade Heilman straight up for Blanton, because as a starter in Shea Heilman will put similar if not better numbers then Fat Joe. He also will occasionally strike a guy out. Blanton just flat out doesnt impress me. If you all want to gawk at his average numbers as an "A", in the park with that defense, then go ahead, but you will be disapointed when he posts an ERA upwards of 4.75 like 5 or 6 more times in his career, if fatty can even hold out that long."

Sure, because Heilman has been extremely impressive when he has started in the past. Fact is, Fat Joe will give 200 innings. In his 3 year career, Blanton is at 208 inning, 4.10 era and 121k/55bb to go with 14 wins per season. He pitches to contact and thus gives up hits. But it's pretty evident in the NL those numbers would be even stronger with more wins with a better offense to support him. Not sure where all you guys are from, but those are pretty strong numbers, and he's going to be 27 next season and not a FA till the 2011 season. Guy is big, but he hasn't been hurt and doesn't miss starts. I hope the A's don't trade him, especially for milledge.

"My first thought was the Brewers. They need a closer. How about Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey for Yovani Gallardo/Manny Parra and Angel Salome"

I wouldn't trade Gallardo straight up for Heilman and Pelfrey. Pelfrey has no secondary pitches and Heilman is a good set-up guy...Gallardo looks like a good #2 at worst. They can get someone of Heilman's ilk without having to give up one of the best young pitching prospects

"I wouldn't trade Gallardo straight up for Heilman and Pelfrey. Pelfrey has no secondary pitches and Heilman is a good set-up guy...Gallardo looks like a good #2 at worst. They can get someone of Heilman's ilk without having to give up one of the best young pitching prospects"

How about Chris Capuano then? Heilman could be a very effective closer, and he's dirt cheap. He's been one of the few late inning non-closer relievers whose been consistent over three stragiht seasons. The Brewers have an excess of young pitching and need a closer. They might be able to find a similar deal elsewhere, but what do you think a deal like this might take for the Mets? It seems to make some sense, plus the two teams have already done business this offseason.

Either Blanton or Haren would be the best pitcher on the mets aside from a healthy Pedro. Anyone who doesn't believe that, doesn't watch either of those guys pitch.

A package of Gomez and Heilman for Blanton seems to work on both sides though. But it's obvious the Mets fan base would look at that as a downgrade... at least until June anyway hahah

Oh, and if Billy Beane see's Milledge as a corner guy, he should have gotten some scouts to Mets games when he was playing center. Its clearly his natural position, and he's not only an above average defender there, but he's far superior in one of those spots to the efforts he'd be able to provide in a corner, where he has difficulty tracking balls.

If you want to be real, how about acknowledging the fact that Maine was also suffering injury issues in the second half, which were considered more significant than Ollie's back problems, which were only a problem around the all-star break.

That said, neither injuries were particularly serious, although both may have effected second half performance.

Yeah, Ollie's peripherals are slightly better, but not by a landslide by any means. Is he more advanced than Maine? Of course, he's had 3 or 4 full seasons before 2007. They both have good K/9 and need to cut down on BBs. They both log good innings rates.

I think the argument can be made either way, but for me, what seals the deal are:

1. Maine's composure. He doesn't get rattled the way Ollie does when things go wrong, and its relfected in the difference in unearned run totals.

2. Maine's first half was a great indication that he has a bright future. No one expected it to be that good, and no one can really blame him for falling off in the second half of his first full season.

I will add this caveat though: If Ollie were to put it all together, he WOULD be an ace. Maine's ceiling is probably a #2. I'd call them both #2.5s based on their stats from last season.

Also, I'd like to add that I too like both guys very much. They have live arms and seem like good teammates. I enjoyed watching them both since they've been acquired, and look forward to seeing more of them in the future.

My Solution:

- Sign Silva at 4 years for 50 million.

Those that dont understand economics or capitalism will think this is high. It's about market value. For an innings eater like Silva who will improve with a move to Shea, he's worth it.

- Put together a MONSTER package for Bedard. If the O's decline, offer B prospects for Cliff Lee or ONE A prospect for Ervin Santana.

Take the first 1 that bites.

If all of these fail, deal Jose Reyes and a B prospect for Johan, and then acquire Ryan Freel to play shortstop and let him bat lead off.

Freel could do damage batting in front of the Mets ferocious lineup.

- IF all that fails, offer 2 B prospects for John Patterson.

High risk, very high upside acquistion, which is Omar style.

- If all that fails, keep the prospects, and go to war with Pedro, Ollie, Maine, Silva, Duque, Pelfrey, Humber...

DO NOT TOUCH THE As PITCHERS WITH A 10 FOOT POLE. MASSIVELY OVERRATED.

Seriously, why do the Mets need an ace? Did they need an ace in 2006 when they went to game 7 of the NLCS and their bats failed them? Did thery need an ace to lead the NL East for like 140 games last year until they melted down, which was an entire team effort? What team has an ace? They dont exactly come on trees. It is retarded. Who cares if the rotation scares anybody. Seriously. Is it the job of your rotation to scare people? Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque are all capable of putting up a quality start everytime they pitch, and believe it or not, the Mets lineup will scare somebody. They have no shot at getting Haren, no shot at getting Santana, no shot at getting Bedard, so why get an averafe at best guyin Blanton who will only cause you to pay big bucks for a mediocre right fielder and your not even upgrading the rotation. They need to fix their bullpen. Pedro/Maine/Perez/El Duque/FA/ acquire in a trade/Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey, they will find a number 5 at some point, and they will have somebody there for when El Duque goes down, however when he is pitching, he is very good, especially at Shea.

"Hahaha.....full year of Pedro.

Good one.

The Mets are in fairly dire need of another reliable starter and would seem to be a good suitor for Blanton.

I don't think they necessarily need an "ace", but an effective innings horse like Blanton would really help imo."

The funny thing is, you are actually talking about youre own team, you just dont realize it, ironically.

All you have to do is replace Pedro with Sheets, and Metsa with Brewers and there you are.

How do you feel about Jennings? I don't see why the Mets can't take a chance with him. I don't think he should be the main solution, but I think he should be insurance.

Whooops dono why I said Garland meant Blanton.

When I said last year I meant 2006 themfightnwords. Also, I dont think he sucks, I just think he is totally average, his one strength being he eats innings. I wouldnt mind having him, but I wouldnt give up Milledge for him, let alone more porspects. He is a number 3ish guy in a rotation that doesnt need a number 3. If anything, they can use an ace, but they dont need one. The only way a trade for a SP would make sense if it is for a top flight starter, not a middle of the pack guy.

2006- 16-12 4.82 194 innings, 240 hits 107/58 K/BB and a 1.54 whip. Those are the awful numbers I was speaking of. I just dont like him at all. I dont know how you can say John Maine is horrible and then sing the praises of Joe Blanton, a guy who is beaten in almost every category by Maine.

im with u on gomez and milledge nrmax, but for a top SP id have to say move milledge.

last year i suggested we move millledge for vazquez.

javier vazquez wouldv won a cy young in shea last year.

I agree its a long shot, but im jus saying id give it the old college try to get bedard. i agree it isnt NECESSSARY, but id love to see bedard in a mets uni and i think he's the kind of guy omar likes.

he offers more value than johan or haren i think. he's not priced like a top 3 pitcher, but if not for the durability issues, i think he's right there wit johan.

no way do not get silva the mets just need a left handed pitcher they only have oliver perez to start left handed they need to get either santana or kazmir now that the d rays have traded delmon young theyll except milledge heilman and pelfrey and a non major prospect for kazmir and a relief pitcher who agrees with this 15 year old

A period or two would also be nice.

All this Joe Blanton hate must be coming from guys who don't watch him pitch. The guy is a bulldog innings eater and a big game pitcher. Many of his losses come in games where he gets zero run support or close to.

He will be a very solid #2 starter in the NL.

Last year:

@LAA gets the W in a 2-1 game.

home v. SEA: duels washburn both pitching CG, loses 2-0

home v NYY: 3 runs in 6.2

@ BOS: 7 in, 4 r

home v. CLE: 7 in, 2 r, W

home v. MIN: CG, SO, W in 1-0 game

home v. BOS: 7.1, 1 R, takes L

@ NYM: 8 in, 0 r, A's lose 1-0

@ CLE: 6.1, 3 r, takes L

home v. LAA: 7 in, 1 r, W

3 consecutive starts end of aug/beg of sept: Det- 7 in, 2 r, ND; @ LAA- 8 in, 2 r, W; @ SEA- 7 in, 2 r, W

And that is just last year on a mediocre (at best) Athletics team.

FineHam: The Mets actually finished the season with four sp with ERA below 4.00: Maine, Perez, Martinez, Hernandez. So lets not make that argument. The Mets need someone who can make 30 starts AND post an ERA below 4.00.

I'm beginning to lean away from the ace stance myself, but I would like to see Omar get crafty and go after someone potentially ready to break out into a top of the rotation pitcher.

I suggested Gallardo/Parra from the Brewers, but I'd also look at Villenueva and Capuano (even though he's had a couple rough years he has the potential to rebound). There's no way all four of those guys are in the Brewers 2008 rotation. Swapping Heilman and Pelfrey for one of those four plus a prospect in the lower levels of the minors actually makes a ton of sense for both teams. Heilman could be one of the better closers in the NL, and those pitchers are all more advanced than Pelfrey and would be a favorite to fill out the final rotation spot.

I'll agree with most of that. I'm not sure Cain belongs on that list (not that he's not good, but he's not Lincecum either), and I'd put Gallardo behind just about all those guys, but he's pretty close.

I'd actually put Gallardo in a class more similar to Garza's.

And sure, that's who would come back for a big pitching prospect plus two or three more players, but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about a one for one or two for two type trade like the one TB made with MN. I think its pretty viable. Both teams are trading from strengths to bolster weaknesses, and neither does a huge amount of damage to their current roster. Gallardo may be too much, but stranger things have happened.

Thats true that Gallardo is probably more in the class of Garza and Pelfrey, but the difference between those guys is that when Gallardo and Garza got called up this year, they posted ERAs of 3.67 and 3.69, respectively, and Pelfrey went 3-8 with a 5.57 ERA. I'm sure you're very aware of this, but I'm just reinforcing why the Brewers wouldn't move Gallardo unless it was part of a Garza-like trade that brought them back an elite young position player

horatio, then do you have a reason why Milledge is called overated and clubhouse cancer and things like that despite one or two minor things in the clubhouse that could happen to anybody, and doing nothing but mashing in every level of the minors? I dont like it either, but if David Wright did the same things as Milledge when he was 22 nobody would have made a stink over it.