Rays Acquire Aybar, Fontaine For Ridgway

This was a dump by Frank Wren. Plain and simple.

I love seeing guys get bashed for trades when we are still in mid january. I dont know how the Braves will compete without Aybar this year. I dont really know much about any of these guys, but none of them have ever impacted a major league team at all so atleast let it play out before you bash the guy. It might end up being horrible, but lets see first. And I hate the Braves.

Ridgeway better post better numbers than he did this past season. 189.00 ERA in 0.1 innings pitched over 3 games. He surrendered 7 earned runs, 1 homer, and 1 walk in this time. Aybar, even though he had his problems, was a fairly good player. I just really hope Ridgeway pans out to be something.

The Reason that some Braves fans can bash on Frank Wren for this move is that they/we know who these guys are and their potential. Chase Fontaine has even been compared to Chase Utley (and I'm not just talking about their sharing of a name). While that may be irrational exuberance, many do believe that he had high potential. Aybar's high potential has been covered by Tim pretty well.
What is Wren's next poorly planned move? Trade Jordan Schaefer and Brent Lillibridge for Kerry Wood? I'm getting worried...

yeah, between this and the whole Kotsay mess... well... lets just say it looks like things might be a little different in Atlanta going forward...

Even so, his high upside made him absolutely worth a guy who projects as a LOOGY straight up. Throwing in extra prospects in deals like this makes no sense. It is like not even bothering to offer Andruw Jones arbitration. Oh wait, Wren did that too! Even if the Braves had no hope at all of re-signing Andruw, they at least would have gotten a sandwich pick. It just seems like Wren is being completely careless. Am I wrong?

some of you guys need to settle down a bit

why is it that the only logical comment about this deal has come from a mets fan (nrmax)?

the fact of the matter is that aybar was out of options and is a completely unreliable player who has disrespected the braves front office repeatedly. not to mention trading him opens a roster spot for lillbridge to make the opening day roster and show what he's made of.

i think it's also hard to project this fontaine guy's ceiling as chase utley when i've never even heard of the guy, and i'm a braves fan.

if you really want to criticize someone in this deal, go after schuerholz for sending wilson betemit to the dodgers for aybar and baez in the first place. i hated that deal then, and i hate it even more now.

dudetheplayer, Betemit is nothing more than a decent bench bat with some pop...he was never and never will be anything more...

a decent switch hitting young cheap "bench bat with pop" who can play 3rd, ss, and 2b adequately and who was hitting quite well playing for us was more valuable than a MIA drug addict and a rental reliever who was a total bust

it's not the Braves' fault that Baez' appendix blew and that Aybar turned out to be a drug addict...Aybar played well while with the Braves and was penciled in for a spot in Atlanta before he went AWOL...Betemit strikes out A TON, is a mediocre fielder who can hit homeruns once in a while...what has he done since leaving Atlanta? Nothing

all i know is that it was a real blast having pete orr and chris woodward as our utility men last year, while knowing that we could have had betemit (and prado) fill those same roles

not to mention the baez/aybar deal at the time just seemed incredibly unnecessary given our playoff chances that year

that trade was a wash for both teams...again, it wasn't the Braves' fault that Aybar didn't play at all in 2007...Aybar should have been the guy instead of Woodward and Orr...

Is it just me, or does it seem like attempting to send Aybar through waivers (under the hope someone would take him) and then release him if he made it through? I don't think I'd trade Fontaine for Ridgway straight up...

And yes, the beginning of the Wren era does not seem promising.

nrmax,
this was posted earlier on a braves website.

Traded away:

Devine 24
Ascanio 22
Aybar 24
Fontaine 22
Richmond 21
Renteria
2 draft picks for Glavine

Received:
Ridgeway 27
Kotsay 32
Infante 26
Ohman 30
Glavine 42
Lopez 38
Jurrjens

we traded 2 solid young arms, our 2nd best hitter from last year, a potential future closer, a good backup for chipper (who needs a good backup), 2 prospects, and 2 draft picks and all we have to show for is a solid veteran pitcher, injured veterans, some potential loogys, and a 5th starter.
so far, frank wren gets a D for the off season. he is making the ultimate sin in trading: selling low (with the exception being the renteria trade).

I think you guys may be missing the point a little bit. Lets think larger picture here for a sec:

Devine + Aybar + Richmond + Fontaine. This package could have brought someone good! What they got was Kotsay and a LOOGY. Kotsay and Ridgway isnt enough to get someone good, the four prospects they gave up is ~ obvious problem here on the total value… I mean seriously, Kotsay was a DFA candidate in Oak and Ridgway ~ that’s all they could bring in for Devine + Aybar + Richmond + Fontaine?

And “a left-handed reliever who has pitched well his last two minor league seasons”
…Are you sure? I see a 25YO guy with a 1.23 WHIP and 26YO with a 1.30 WHIP the last two years in AAA. I see a total line of 3.04 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 103.2 IP, 11 HR, and 43 Walks! That’s a walk almost every other inning and a HR every 9 or so ~ and that’s vs the weaker AAA hitting! Oh, and he’s been a reliever the last 4 years; the first two didn’t go so hot in High-A (1.63 WHIP and 55 BB total in 80 IP).

I think the best thing about him is the fact that he provided one of the coolest stats I have ever seen ~ an ERA+ of *2*! Yeah, that’s *002*. The 189.00 ERA is pretty nice looking too… Atleast people can get a good laugh out of that, otherwise I don’t see why anyone would care about him much.

(((BTW, What the heck is up with Type-Key now? This site is a problem once a month… Well, unless I’m the only one experiencing problems ~ but seems others may be as well)))

Braves fans honestly believe Wren isn't talking with Scheurholz before all of these moves? On top of that, NONE of you know how many teams Wren talked to or didn't talk to about the players he has traded. Frankly, with Aybar's problems, this most likely was the best trade option available for Wren to make. Certainly no team in contention is going to risk anything for a guy like him. It literally cracks me up when fans believe a GM talked to one team and one team only before making a trade (or trades). The most recent (and only) trade I can remember where other GM's came out publicly in "shock" was the Jason Jennings trade last off-season. As for Baez, after his success in Tampa Bay, no reason to think he couldn't have bounced back and been at least a respectable 7th/8th inning guy for Atlanta. Aybar = Betemit = done NOTHING of any significance in the Majors. The fact guys like this can even be traded away or get traded for is hilarious.

"So basically the braves have traded Joey devine, Jamie Richmond, Willy Aybar, and Chase Fontaine for a CF who very likely could spend half the season the dl and a LOOGY whom may not even be better than the two we already had in house."

Thank you, I never said that I believed that Chase Fontaine was Chase Utley, not did I make any defense for Aybar's drug use. All I am saying is that Wren had traded a lot of prospects with higher ceilings for players that the Braves are unlikely to get much production from. The fact is that Joey Devine should have been bounty enough to score Kotsay. Willy Aybar should have been enough bounty to score a LOOGY likey Ridgeway. Getting fleeced for young, undeveloped extra prospects seems Careless. 3 years down the road, it still may seem careless as more value could probably have been obtained for the same players.
I personally still maintain that the Braves could have low-balled Andruw with an arbitration offer just to get the sandwich pick. You may not be convinced that he would return back to form, but at least he was almost guaranteed to play for an entire year if he had accepted.

"Devine + Aybar + Richmond + Fontaine. This package could have brought someone good! What they got was Kotsay and a LOOGY."

Two guys who are out of options but probably don't deserve to be in the majors at the moment (one because of performance, the other because of personal issues), a righty pitcher in low A who can barely throw 90, and a defensively deficient shortstop who slap hits? If you think you can get anything for that package, you're fooling yourself. On this site especially, the Braves fans just seem to overvalue their assets SO much because the team was good at squeezing blood from a stone for years. But most good prospects don't pan out, and it's pretty rare that the crappy ones do. Other than Devine, I'd be surprised if any of them ever establish themselves to be average major leaguers.

It's a wash both ways.

I am a Braves fan, and I can tell you, I won't miss either guy.

I'm not sure how I feel about Wren's moves at this point. I just hope Kotsay doesn't turn out like the Raul Mondesi experiment.

I agree that it's probably a wash. Aybar burned every bridge possible in Atlanta, and they don't keep guys like that. I can't believe people are still upset about Betemit. He was called a "future All-Star" for about 14 years, and the only people he's hit against since the trade are the Braves. Kotsay will be a good addition, and Ridgeway had good numbers last year in AAA. We have Escobar, Johnson and Lillibridge for a ton of years, and I doubt Fontaine would've gotten a job over any of them. We needed a lefty reliever, and traded nothing essential to get one.

AndyBravesFan - That...and the fact that several of these trades have been made already this year. We already traded for a lefty in the pen, and we already trade for a CF.

I understand the concept of depth, but I've never seen it gone about in this way.

Yeah I'm definitely on board with the casual losing of trade chips.

Seems like Wren isn't trying to hard to make a good deal, just unloading people that aren't necessities at this point.

Like I said, not too sure how I feel about Wren's moves yet. I'll have to wait and see how they pan out to make final judgment.

People who think we should have offered Andruw arbitration do not understand the business side of baseball at all. It is not smart business to risk it over just a sandwich pick. Andruw was looking for a contract for over $20 million and got close to it. There was a very real possibility he could have gotten it and then the Braves would have no Glavine, more non-tenders, and wasted Mark Teixeira extension money. For a sandwich pick? The bad heavily outweighed the good.

Devine is not as good as reliever as people made him out to be. He's been mostly hype and wasn't guaranteed a spot in spring training. If Kotsay is injured the whole year then yeah, I'll be upset about the trade. But he passed a physical and was deemed healthy by doctors - I'll trust that.

Aybar is nothing but potential that's been fading away for years. He hasn't done much of anything in any level of baseball for awhile. There is a much higher chance that he never plays again in the majors than he becomes a valuable player. The Braves traded what little value his potential still has for a potential lefty that apparently can strikeout people.

I'm a Braves fan and any Braves fan is a friend of mine. But a lot of my fellow Braves fans are not understanding our moves/way overvaluing our crap. All the players we traded are very expendable and all the players we got back are very expendable. Don't get mad about these little trades, they won't effect much in either direction.

Yeah, you guys are completely missing the point...

Regardless of what Devine/Aybar/Richmond/Fontaine do or do not become, the four were basically traded for nothing. What it all boils down to is 4 young potentials for a potential depth guy in the OF at a 2M cost and a potential emergency reliever if you need to call him up. The Vet-OFer and AAAA-RP could have been pulled from FA or by trading only a portion of what was sent away though, 4 young potentials cant be bought off the market though.

Need a Vet-OF in the 2M range who isnt an injury risk and will probably provide better numbers? Jason Michaels is more than likely available from Cleveland for Devine alone ~ you saved yourself Richmond’s potential in that case. Need a LH-RP to fill the AAA roster? You can get one off the wavier wire in spring-training pretty easily I imagine, otherwise find a team in need of a stop-gap Utility-Infielder because of injury/under-performance and trade Aybar straight up for one with maybe a little more upside ~ you saved yourself Fontaine’s possibly potential…

Also, Devine isnt exactly a bad reliever like everyone is trying to say he is. The guy has less than 20IP spread over 3 ML call-ups ~ you can not make a determination based off that in any way. He is a guy who has a 1.16 WHIP and 51/162 BB/K rate in the minors over 112 IP. The BB are a little higher than you would like, but its not uncommon for a huge K guy to have some control issues his first year or two in professional ball. He also started to cut said problems quite a bit last year, providing a 19/78 BB/K rate in 57 IP last year with an overall 1.05 WHIP and 1.89 ERA. Oh, he has also given up only 6 HR in 112 minor league IP ~ so even when he is a little wild, people are not teeing off on him. Acting as if this guy is failed potential or anything remotely close to that; well that would be ignoring fact and instead running with personal bias…

Lastly, I’m not a Braves fan in any way shape or form ~ I’m just seeing a team making some rather questionable moves giving up potential for trash that can be scrapped off the waiver-wires for free… If you want to believe throwing prospects away for nothing isnt that bad of an idea because said prospects may never make it in the majors, so be it ~ but it’s a foolish mindstate and goes against everything every other club is trying to do. Shoot, we have trades held up all the time because Team-A wont include another borderline prospect in an offer, yet you guys are telling us teams should willing throw young borderline prospects and non-instant success guys away for peanuts? Whatever…

darkstar,

i agree with what you are saying. i'm not saying i love these deals. it is just irritating to read endless posts from people acting like these are awful deals that will have a huge significance on the braves future.

as for potential, i guess. potential for what though? potential to at the very best possibly be a spot starter? a utility infielder? because that is about the roof for richmond and fontaine.

the braves have been talking about trading richmond for over a year. don't you think they know his relative value (at least in the minds of other teams)? fontaine has struggled offensively and defensively while being relatively old for his level.

daslied,
i mockingly called them trash b/c somebody in an earlier post called kotsay trash. if kotsay, a solid major leaguer, is trash, then two prospects that will most likely never start or contribute significantly at the major league level are, well, trash.

my bad daslied. all in good fun. glad we agree. not sure if kotsay will hold up physically, but if he does, i have no problem with wren's dealings so far.

pretty sure the braves are just happy not to be taking aybar to camp. pretty much every major player on the team last year said at one point or another that they didn't think he fit with the team and it would be inappropriate for him to come back and take a spot from a current member. hopefully he will keep it on the up and up in tb and turn out to be a solid util.

darkstar,

Personally, no I do not think it is worth the risk. I would've rather the braves didn't make either of these trades. At the same time, what is the reward we are missing out on? A potentially solid set-up man in Devine, a solid utility infielder in Aybar, and a couple fringe major leaguers. The reward needs to be a little more substantial for me to get fired up in January, especially in comparison to what we will get (I honestly feel if Kotsay is healthy that he will start in center the whole year, with liberal days off of course).

I was more upset about the bounty we gave up for a year-and-a-half of TexMex than this, but that trade seemed to go over smoothly with Braves fans.

Wow, that first paragraph was horribly written. That's what I get for being in a rush...

“Darkstar - so maybe Ridgway become the 2008 Buddy Carlyle. Helpful and serviceable but not spectacular.”

Huh? Carlyle was a spot-starter who provided questionable results as filler for the club. Plus, Buddy has actually been dominate in the minors from time to time (check out those BB/K rates and some wicked WHIPs scattered around), and has much more chance of providing some good solid ML innings. I would think Carlyle is actually a better comparison to Devine (in a worse case for Joey) than to Ridgway though ~ I imagine Ridgway (if he even makes the 25-man at all) will probably end up becoming this years Steve Colyer; those two are much more comparable…

“And this whole obsession with potential...sure, it's great. But every minor leaguer has it, or they wouldn't be in pro ball.”

…Exactly! This is why you don’t give up “4X potential” for “2X zero to minor potential”. Prospects have their potential ahead of them, and they all have it. Failed/injury-prone MLers or 4A guys generally have their potential behind them…

And yeah, that paragraph was a tough one :p