Cubs Did Not Offer Ceda

Sad.. just sad..

I would rather see Colvin, Ceda, Cedeno, Gallagher. The top 3 pitching prospects... SAD.

1quik6

I had to sign up just to respond to your absurd comment. I'm an Orioles fan with absolutely no interest in the NL Central, but barring massive injuries the Cubs should win that division with or without Roberts.

And to think that both Roberts and the Cubs will struggle more by his move to that division is absurd. Look at the AL East and the NL Central, and there's no comparison. He'll be playing in an easier division on a better team. Not to mention the fact that he's an obvious improvement over Mark DeRosa, even if it isn't as pronounced as some O's fans would proclaim.

I agree completely, the cubs are going to have speed with soriano and theriot and fukudome and pie, it just makes no sense for them to go out and use all of their good young pitchers for a player who really is an overkill. Yes, Roberts does make them better, but he is not on the level that will make the cubs an instant favorite in the NL to make it to the WS. I would just give eric pattersion the second base job if the cubs want offensive production from the position. And lets not forget, Derosa can be productive as well.

Jason Marquis should retire if he ends up in the AL East.

Hendry getting fleeced!!

cub fans:

would you give up the rumored foursome for both Roberts and George Sherrill?

I don't want to get anyone in trouble so I won't say where I heard this, but I told you about this before - see my earlier threads.

Marquis and Payton are both in the deal.

Soto and Hernadez are out of the mix, principally because the Orioles are worried about Soto's weight issues and apaarently he's not exactly have a great spring.

Ceda was the extra player I told you about earlier, with the short name that began with a C.

The holdup is Angelos wants Marmol in the deal too, making it a 6-2 deal. Also they haven't resolved if the Cubs give up Cedeno or another player thought to be Patterson but might be Fontenot???

Angelos wants Marmol and he can go piss up a rope. Wind don't we just swap farm team affiliates and call it even. Sheesh.

---Why, not wind----

that must have made me very angry...

I hope Angelos insists on Marmol because then the deal won't get done.

God...the Chicago GM should just quit talks with Baltimore because they obviously are horribly run from the top-down. If the Cubs OK this, then they're obviusly in a shambles up there too.

Angelos just keeps upping the requirements just so he doesnt look as bad when Chicago axes the deal. "Well, we tried to get a job done but they didnt accept our terms..." Meanwhile he still gets to live out his unrequited man-crush on Brian Roberts.

I have no problem with them including Ceda in the deal. Top 3 Cubs prospects? What about Kevin Hart, Jeff Samardzija, Carmen Pignatello, and Mark Pawelek. This deal also allows the Cubs to keep Sean Marshall for rotation insurance. I try to push for the inclusion of Sherrill, but I'd do it without him, because prospects are just that PROSPECTS.

how about a three team trade between the cubs angels and the orioles

the angels get Carlos Marmol And Donnie Veal and jay payton

The orioles get Tyler Colver Sean gallagher Jose Ceda And Ronny Cedeno and Kevin Hart

The Cubs Get Reggie Willits
Brandon Wood And Brian Roberts

Any One else think this is a good idea

Cubs need Roberts!!! These guys are just prospects!! How many actually pan out?? ITs win now in Chicago!!! We have been reluctant to give up prospects and look where is has gotten us, 99 years of futility!!!

There is no way the O's get 3 top pitching prospects and a starting shortstop for Brian Roberts without Sherrill in the deal. Even then, I'd rather keep one of those 3 young pitchers (Ceda, Gallagher, Veal) and just do the deal 4 for 1.

At least one of those three pitchers will excel, and one will be average.

Yeah, Dave. What if Brian Roberts turns out to be a product of HGH, and/or succumbs to leg injuries?
Then we got NOTHING out of the deal. You made my point for me, thanks.

I think you have got to make an effort to hold on to Veal here. Marshall is a tall lefty as well, I think you try and sub him in there. Veal has the highest ceiling out of any of those guys...but alas, I'm sure McFailure knows this too. Gallagher could end up being better than a #4 though...just my opinion. He pitches in a hitter's park and still puts up great numbers.

I say package Murton and Marshall to a team that needs outfield\pitching help and get some lower level good pitching prospects. A couple of Huesby types or something...

FWIW, I love Roberts as a player and the Cubs will be very, very happy with him. Getting him for prospects is a good deal.

Here's my trade proposal:

Vance Law
Dwight Smith
Leon Durham

for

Brian Roberts

Globalizer, Marmol for Sherill a wash?! Have you seen Marmol pitch? The kid is FILTHY. His numbers last year: 59 games. 69.1 IP, 5-1 record, 1.43 ERA, 96 K's and 35 BBs. Righties his .143 against him and lefties .209. He's probablly the best set-up man in the NL right now and if they put him there he could be one of the most feared closers in baseball. There is NO WAY the Cubs move Marmol. Like someone earlier said, I wouldn't (and I doubt the Cubs would either) trade Marmol for Roberts straight up, let alone as part of a package.

Do it.

This deal is going to happen. I've been checking the Baltimore box scores lately, and Roberts hasn't been playing much. That tells me that they are holding him back so he doesn't get hurt.

Aside with that, Cedeno has been getting spot pinch hits instead of starting.

They probably are including Ceda. Gallagher, Cedeno, and Ceda should be enough to get this deal done.

I'm not sure I'd include Marquis. I'd rather have him in the rotation than Dempster. Sure, Dempster has looked good this spring, but they are going to figure him out by May.

I hope they don't keep Soriano in the second spot. You need someone who can bunt and slap balls to right field. He doesn't do that. Theriot is perfect for that position. If this happens, I'd do this:

Roberts-2B
Theriot-SS
DLee-1B
Ramirez-3B
Fukodome-RF
Soriano-LF
Soto-C
Pie-CF

I'm still worried about the rotation. Something tells me that a rotation of Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, Hill, and Lieber is not going to cut it.

By the way, that Lahey guy looks good thing spring. They have to break camp with him or else they have to give him back via the Rule 5 draft, so I can see them taking both him and Hart in the bullpen.

Sherrill has only proven he’s a solid lefty specialist – that is, he has “proven” he can come in for a lefty batter or two and get them out. He is as unproven as a closer as Marmol is. The difference is Marmol is young, has a better arm and a longer future as a closer. He still has tremendous upside left. Sherrill is only a closer because the O’s lack other options and are trying to increase his value for a future deal. Sherrill and Marmol are not, by any stretch of the imagination, a “wash”.

Fox is an awful catcher defensively. His future is at first base or LF. He's an emergency catcher at best.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta, coryaj20! Sorry, couldn't help it.

Anyway, I think that this is going to be the eventual deal. For one, both sides are a little disappointed, but not outraged- a good sign that it's actually pretty fair. Cubs fans think they're giving up too much, but are glad to get Roberts, while O's fans wanted Colvin, but must admit that they're getting a nice haul. As much as I want Colvin included (instead of Ceda, if necessary), I think that Hendry made a brilliant strategic move by including Ceda. While McPhail may want Colvin more than Ceda, he'd be playing a dangerous game- holding out- as the Cubs could just as easily pull what McPhail must know is a very good offer. Suddenly, the O's are almost forced to accept what may not be their 'ideal' package, because value-wise, it's pretty much everything they've been asking for. To the Cubs fans making their own amendments, I'll add this: The Seven Stages of Grief...
1)Disbelief- 'Yeah right! The deal is going to be Marshall, Murton, and Cedeno for Roberts and a low level prospect.' Remember that one.
2)Denial- 'No way would the Cubs give up three of their top ten prospects AND a potential starting shortstop for Brian Roberts. You O's fans are CRAZY.' I'm sure I recall that one
3)Bargaining- 'swap out Marshall for Veal and I'd do it,' or 'No way this is going down without Sherrill,' or...well look at the comments above.
4)Guilt- ...(OK, it's not perfect)
5)Anger- 'Hendry's getting fleeced!', 'The O's are STUPID if they don't take this deal'... I think we've all seen plenty of angry words in these Roberts threads. Just look at crunchy/adun vs. dark!
6)Depression- 'Sad- just sad,' sums it up nicely.
And finally...
7)Acceptance- 'I think McPhail is getting a lot for Roberts – but, at the same time, this is actually the exact deal I suggested a few days ago. Here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter that these guys are all top 10 prospects – usually only 3-4 out of the top 10 list pan out into anything special.'

crunchy...think I said almost exactly the same thing a few posts earlier, but thanks for agreeing.
mmontice- LOL
RbCubsFan- Veal has Willis written all over? Dude, have you WATCHED Willis over the last two years. That guy sucks now!

Who's projecting the Rays to have 88 wins! I want to see that with my own two eyes!

BTW- you guys are gonna have a sick lineup. If your pitching holds, up, I think I'd take you guys (with Roberts) over a creaky Mets club. I think they just signed Methuzala to play left field.

uww1- Know you're Sherrill man-crush, but the rumor said nothing about him being a part of the deal; that's just another poster jumpin' on your bandwagon. If McPhail can somehow swing Colvin into this deal and swap Cedeno for Patterson (we need a 2B replacement, not a second subpar shortstop...though he'd be better than Luis), I'll forgive him for taking Sherrill and Mickolio instead of demanding Triunfel in the Bedard deal.

crunch- I figured as much. Just busting ba...your hump. The deal really is shaping up as projected by the more objective fans (Cubs AND O's) on the Roberts threads. I said Colvin instead of Ceda, b/c of Ceda being a BP arm, but otherwise, I was right on. Still think its funny that, three weeks ago, some people were talking Murton, Marshall, and Cedeno or, at best, Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno. I'm still sticking to my belief that Payton and one more prospect (wish: Colvin; reality: probably more along the lines of Patterson or Huesby) will be involved before the ink dries, but otherwise, this thing is finally coming to an end. What do we talk about now? Hey, we've got this really great veteran pitcher on our staff named Steve Traschel. How 'bout a trade?! (LOL)

I think you make an excellent point, mmontice, but as someone else pointed out, these are the CUBS' top two (starting) pitching prospects; neither is considered an elite pitching prospect overall, nor does either look likely to lead a staff as a front-of-the-rotation type. Veal certainly has the upside, but his '07 hardly inspires faith that he'll reach that lofty ceiling. Again, these are PROSPECTS.

Don't know about Patterson, but for the sake of argument, let's say he's BRob all over again...in two or three years. He's not going to get the on-the-job training he needs in Chicago and makes more sense than Cedeno here. Oh well. I said the whole Ceda/Colvin strategy thing above...in hindsight. Are you saying somebody mentioned that before?! YOU?! If so...what're the next powerball numbers?! That's pretty prophetic.

I also wouldn't trade Marquis. He's a first half wonder. I would put him in the starting rotation to start the season and have Leiber pitch long relief. Then, when Marquis shows signs of fading in the second half, put Leiber in the rotation. That way Leiber's arm will be fresh and he'll be able to finish off the season. Combined, Marquis and Leiber make one pretty good starter.

milehigh...

Yes, you and I had a conversation about how it will probably have to include another high prospect. You said you wanted Colving. I said I think it will be Ceda because Hendry can act like he is bending over and taking it, and McPhail will feel better. But I like Colvin more than Ceda, and I think Hendry does too. Amazing, but I think the Wilken thing might be true. Looks to be going out of his way not to include any of his picks. But to answer your question, I did say Hendry should do Ceda instead of Colvin, and he might have been planning it all along. Saying Ceda is "untouchable" early might have just been getting leverage knowing he would include him at the end to put it over the top.

So...where's my Powerball numbers?! I'm having WAY too much fun with this site today. I know I should probably...I don't know...DO MY JOB, but screw it (again, not literally). I've been rejuvenated by this update. It looks like this deal is FINALLY going to go through and there are enough decent posters on right now to talk intelligently on the subject. Good times all around.

Glad to see a lot of cubs fans coming down to earth. They are prospects not one is guarenteed. You are getting a top five second baseman and you will have a legit chance of winning the nl now. All you need now is some insurance behind the plate and a second centerfielder just in case. Lofton and damian miller maybe.

I know I'm playing with fire here, but any thoughts on why, if this is the deal- as most of us agree- it hasn't been announced. Just the usual, 'wheels turn slowly,' thing or is Angelos holding things up asking for more? Hope it's not the latter, though there IS a part of me that thinks it's possible that Mac is still trying to think of a way to get Colvin. Like I said- dangerous game. We're woefully short on position prospects, but this is a good offer and will likely be the final tally (or very close to it, depending on Cedeno/Patterson- doubt Hendry would fight too hard to hang on to Patterson this late in the game if its a sticking point- and whether Payton/Marquis are included). Neither of the latter (w/Marquis more of a give than a get) would be enough for Colvin (though switching him out for Ceda AND sending Payton + $ might be...) I still don't understand why McPhail wants Ceda. BP arms are a dime a dozen and, with the exception of Rivera and Hoffman (and a couple others), tend to have a couple good years, then flame out. Finally, Adun- I think you might be right about the Wilken thing...unofficially. I still can't imagine its contractual or anything, but you're right...they seem to be going out of their way to NOT include any of his picks. I could see it being a back alley, handshake kind of thing. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense that Colvin's name would've come up to begin with. Hendry would've just said, 'Can't do it, it's in the guy's deal,' and that would have been the end of it. If it is true, though, enjoy BRob...He's likely the last trade acquisition you guys are going to get for a loooooong time. Who else is left to trade?! Marshall? Patterson? Pickin's are getting slim.

joemorgan,

I don't think the Cubs need anything at Catcher at all. They have Blanco, one of the better backups around, and they have Koyie Hill in AAA, who can't hit at all, but plays very good defense. There is no reason to worry about the Catcher spot at all. They should have brought up Soto after the Barrett trade last year frankly. I still don't understand why they didn't...

That lineup is diesel, CubFanForLife! Especially if Soto and Pie develop. Monstrous. How's Fuku looked this spring? Is dude for real? Roberts is going to score 300 runs this year with those guys behind him (LOL)! They may as well just start him on third and save the opposing team the time (and the ridiculous number of pitches he forces opposing pitchers to throw). BTW- I can't believe nobody called Ndano on that ridiculous Soto/Hernandez theory. Let's see: the O's/Angelos decided that, after watching Soto this spring, they'd rather have creaky old Ramon Hernandez at 30-something over the stud up-and-comer?! I don't care if we have Wieters waiting in the wings, you don't turn down a top prospect who's already proven himself capable of rocking MLB pitching for an over the hill backstop whose numbers have plummeted from year to year since we acquired him.

I'm on fire. Get typin' people! It's Friday and this deal is gonna go down soon. I need to chat! (otherwise I'll be forced to actually do work and be productive- shudder!)

You're right CFFL, but Soto HAD been killin' it in AA (I think) and any Dominican kid over the age of 14 can hit better than Kendall (that's why they're ALL signed...that country's entire GDP is going to come from baseball by the year 2020! I'm telling you, scouts are now paying the women down there for every male born. They're signing them at birth based on projection. 'Sure he's 7 pounds 3 ounces NOW, but kid's gonna be a MONSTER!') Baseball America was saying the same thing as Adun at the time of the Kendall signing... 'Why not just bring up Soto and see what he can do.' I remember distinctly. Can you buy Dominican babies on the internet like the way Madonna and Angelina Jolie got their kids?! I'm telling you, it's a better investment than real estate!

MileHigh-
It really is a murderer's row of a lineup, especially if Soto can continue to hit like he did at the end of last season and Pie can do, well, anything at all! Lol. And I think we all knew Ndano was crazy when he started talking about the Cubs moving Soto and Marmol. :-) Fukudome has looked pretty good this spring. He's only hitting .259, but he's VERY patient at the plate and is getting on base at a .432 clip. He has said through his interpreter that he is still adjusting to the "moving fastballs" that most major-leaguers throw, which he rarely, if ever, saw in Japan. In the field, he's SICK. He has a cannon for an arm, covers a ton of ground, and looks really, really smooth out there. He's obviously an extremely polished defender. I saw one play where he caught a ball at the warning track and threw a laser to 1st off of flat feet to double someone off. The runner made it back to first by an eyelash, but after the game Piniella joked that they should have called him out just because of the degree of difficulty of the play that Fukudome made.

I'll hold off on comments because an actual deal has not gone down yet. But I will say it appears some O's fans were closer to reality on this than most of us Cub fans in the beginning. I was not one of those Cub fans giving silly trade proposals. In fact, I never gave one single trade proposal. Just guys I thought might be in a package. So far, I was real close. But I got to say, I did not think our top 3 pitching prospects were going. I thought it could be 2 of 3.

Maybe it was a service time issue for Soto?

Studio,

What makes them any more credible now? Just saying, they aren't always completely credible

"Maybe it was a service time issue for Soto?"

Maybe, but in the thick of a playoff chase, you would think they would get over that. Especially considering the prospects lost trading for Kendall. Although we do get a sandwich pick for him at least...

Aduncaroo, what prospects did we give up for Kendall? For some reason I thought it was just Bowen.

"Just remember everyone...those "crazy proposals" that the Cubs fans were making came from these VERY SAME PEOPLE writing now that its Gallagher\Ceda\Veal\Cedeno. At the beginning, they were saying a package around Gallagher and Cedeno, and THEY were the ones mentioning Murton and Marshall etc. Keep this all in perspective here, if you didn't believe them before, why belive them now?"

Adun-
One word: time. It wasn't so much that I didn't believe THEM before; I just didn't believe that the O's would OK such a deal. And they didn't. Similarly, it appears they haven't OK'd this most recent proposal. I have to think they will (or some variation thereof), but nevertheless, it's not about some hack's POV, but rather who's controlling (for lack of a better word) the deal and what the PERCEIVED value is for the central piece(s). In this case, the reporters- who I also think may have been projecting some of their own feelings with regard to value- tended to be Chicago-based and were relaying information provided to them by those within the Cubs organization. Of course the Cubs were offering less at the beginning. It's called negotiating. You don't START with '3 of my best prospects and a shortstop who can start for your crappy team.' You work up to that...as it appears they have. Had the leak (or whatever you want to call it) come from Baltimore's end, you might have heard something equally absurd like, 'Rich Hill, Felix Pie, Sean Gallagher, and Cedeno!' Oh wait, we DID hear something along those lines over here. It was no closer to the truth than the Gallagher/Marshall, Cedeno, Murton rumors...or so it now seems. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20, but I think many of the more objective posters on this site realized that IF the deal were to go down, the players swapped would be somewhere in the middle of said extremes...which is where we find ourselves. Only the idiots- if you'll forgive my bluntness- jumped on the low-ball/high-ball proposals (and even that is unfair- let's just say they let their fan-dom get the better of them). All of this isn't to say that what we're hearing now is definitive or wholly accurate, but, as is often the case, the truth 'looks' different; it 'looks' like the truth, while rumors...well...look like rumors. If O's fans are screaming bloody murder that a speculative offer seems WAY off, it probably is; just as the opposite is true and a proposal that skews too far the other way can be dismissed as idle chatter. The truth is in the middle and here we are.

I'll also add this: it very well could be that this report is just as erroneous as those nutty proposals we once fought over! Hell, we might find out that, in fact, the two clubs are close to an agreement EXACTLY LIKE the ones I'm dismissing (the Murton, Marshall, Cedeno stuff) I'm just saying- think with your head, not your heart and you'll probably find yourself in the right ballpark.

Adun, I think Cub fans have been getting a beating for the most part. Sure, I read some fans trade proposals that seemed one sided. But I think that got lumped in with us Cub fans that were trying to be logical and put some fair thought in the rumors. It appears...appears because no deal yet, that the rumors are heading to proposals that I and most Cub fans were not leading to at all. 5 for 1, 6 for 2...did you see that? I did not.

Dan Stabbingworth-
A service time issue? With the playoffs on the line?! You could be right, but that seems crazy in retrospect. Still...makes more sense than any other theory I've heard. Oops, Adun already covered that.