Cubs-Orioles Roberts Talks Getting Serious

Looks like this deal will finally get done soon!

All of the players listed above are expendable as far as I'm concerned. Let's face it, the Cubs haven't produced an everyday position player from their own system since Mark Grace, so I'm not concerned about losing any future superstars in this deal. :)

I want this deal done for tomorrow's game.

I’m not sure why the O’s want Murton unless he’s a cheaper, younger replacement for Payton. And I’ll be surprised if McPhail doesn’t try to bring in a younger, projectable arm instead of Marshall. At the same time, I wonder if the impending loss of Patton will influence the pitcher they want from the Cubs. Will that have them lean more toward pitchers that are MLB ready, as Patton was thought to be? At any rate, I don’t think Oriole fans will be too excited with the names mentioned here. As for the Cubs side of things, I’ve been wondering why they haven’t tried Marshall out of the bullpen. They currently only have one lefty, Eyre, and they’ve been leaning toward Neil Cotts as the second lefty – which is a scary thought. Whenever Cotts comes into the game it’s like putting gasoline on the fire. Why not see if Marshall can be that second lefty?

I'll take a lesser package if you take Payton. I hate Payton that much. He can play all 3 OF spots and can hit LHP. But thats it.

Payton makes all the crap you are sending over feel much better to me.

This seems to make sense and is consistent with the Bruce Levine (Angelos gives green light) report and with what the O's have done with the Tejada and Bedard trades. Gallagher and Cedeno have been rumored the most. I don't think anyone would argue about the O's need for middle infield help. Maybe E. Patterson or Tony Thomas is included as well. Or Murton in what would be a nice LF platoon with Scott (although I understand Trembley told Scott he'd be given a chance to win the position outright). 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 seem feasible (5 for 1 seems too much) depending on the players. Are Lahey or Ascanio being considered in the deal?

Looking forward to see what transpires.

Marshall in the pen could do 2 roles. He could do long relief when the starters have a bad day and could do spot duty as a situational lefty. Leaving Eyre as the "main" go to lefty.

But if we get Payton I am sure both Marshall/Gallagher go. Which would leave Marquis, Dempster, and Lieber for the 4/5 spots. I would think with them we would need a guy who can go long innings like Marshall. Unless Hart will fill that role?

What I would like to see, and sorry for the tangent.. since this isnt exactly about the Roberts trade, is to have Dempster, Lieber, and Marquis rotate as the 4/5 pitcher and during thier off start, they could be the long reliever. I dont know how well that would work but it would give us a 5 1/3 man rotation if that makes sense. Z, Hill, Lilly making thier regualar starts then the other 3 rotating for the other 2 starts.

As you know Marquis breaks down over the course of the year and Lieber is no spring chicken this would in theory keep their arms fresher. But they may complain that they are out of rythem.

Do you think Moneyball would take Murton/Marquis and cash? They could use a 180 inning guy as they really have a young rotation and that ballpark couldnt hurt Marquis. Then it looks like they could use Murton as the everyday starter/DH and have Brown be thier 4th outfielder.

Sorry again off topic.

That way Patterson, Cedeno, Marshall, Gallagher to the O's for Payton/Roberts?

That presumbaly leaves a hole for another hard-throwing reliever type prospect.

This is junk offered up by the Cubs. The O's need Colvin, Pie, or Ceda in this trade. Besides, I dont listen to anything Heyman says. He said that Angelos nixed the Bedard trade..........we all know what happened with that. This is just our daily O's - cubs update crap.

Macphail would be a fool to take that garbage of a trade for an all-star 2nd baseman.

I expect in the end to see Patterson, Pie and Gallagher going to Baltimore for Roberts. Steep price I know, but I see the Cubs getting fleeced again by MacPhail (he did it to them last year with Trachsel.)

The Cubs would just bring in Corey Patterson (reunion with Roberts) until Colvin is ready.

XD23, thanks for the insight into Payton. If Payton is that much of a bellyacher than it makes sense that the Orioles would include him in a deal and replace him with Murton. I wouldn’t think the O’s would want to pay a few million to a bench player whose questionable attitude would be a bad influence on their kids, particularly Adam Jones. If the Cubs DO get him, I hope he accepts his role. Maybe it’ll be easier for him to accept it on a contending team…I hope.

I found it interesting as well that, with O’s scouts watching, Patterson played the entire game at second base without a hitch – and he looked good at the plate, getting a couple of solid hits while showing his speed by running aggressively to stretch a single into a double. I know it’s only a spring game but he was fun to watch yesterday. Jose Ceda also pitched yesterday with the O’s there – does that mean something? I don’t know. But he looked impressive. He’s a giant on the mound and he rears back a little when he pitches – then when you add into the equation that he was throwing in the high 90’s, you can get a feel for how intimidating he is – and why scouts are beginning to get excited about him. If the O’s manage to extract him from the Cubs along with Gallagher that would be quite a coup. From the Cubs point of view, I hope it’s either Gallagher or Ceda - but not both. I’m really interested to hear what names are being bandied about as this gets closer to completion.

Pie isn't going anywhere. The O's just acquired Adam Jones in the Bedard deal, what would they need with him?

As a Cubs fan, I'm to the point where I'd trade almost any prospect in the system for the right price. They haven't produced one single solitary position player who has turned out to be a solid, everyday major-leaguer from their system in almost 20 years. Not one! Every single "big time", "big hype" prospect has turned into a complete bust. Brooks Kieschnick, Scott Bullett, Kevin Orie, Tuffy Rhodes, Chad Meyers, Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno, Felix Pie...I could list more and more but you get the point. Why are Cub fans so protective of all these 'prospects' when we KNOW that none of them will ever do anything?! If they can get proven big league talent in return, give up all the 'prospects' you have to.

Cubfan4Life,
Because the minute we trade one, he’ll go on and star somewhere else! I think the Cubs are still traumatized by the Lou Brock trade. ;)

If we have to give up stud prospect - wouldn't baltimore prefer Soto to Pie? Soto/Cedeno/Gallegher/Marquis/patterson for Roberts/Hernandez/low low grade prospect. Marquis and Hernandez are similar $$wise Cubs get a C for 2 yrs but O's have big potential in Soto ( depending on whether he is the Soto from 3rd yr in AAA or the Soto from his first 2 yrs there). I know Marquis in AL east is horrid on its face but he puts up league avg #'s until early august when they can replace him with younger P.

Scott Bullett wasn't from the Cubs system, was he? I thought he had been a Pirates prospect. Earl Cunningham and Ty Griffin were, though. sigh.

I'm sick of the O's fans crying that the Cubs prospects are garbage. That's why you all are not the GM of the O's.

The Cubs will not trade Soto.

And as for Cedeno, he looked pretty good the other day. Slick fielding, and he hit a ball 410 feet to dead center (which was only an out because ASU's field is 420 to center).

It's going to be funny to see the crying from O's fans when the deal is Cedeno, Murton, and Marquis (or something along those lines).

I wouldn't do Pie for Roberts straight up. If that's the price, the Orioles can keep Roberts, and stumble their way into 64 wins this year.

"It's going to be funny to see the crying from O's fans when the deal is Cedeno, Murton, and Marquis (or something along those lines)."

If I was an O fan i'd cry too if that was the package. Lets break that down: Cedeno= AAAA, absolutely no baseball IQ.And as for Cedeno, he looked pretty good the other day. Murton= 4th OF, sorry cubs fans but when a guy doesnt hit for power, doesnt steal bases and isnt very good defensively, guess what? Hes a 4th OF'er. Marquis= Crap in the NL Central ( ie. the worst division in baseball), how does that translate to the AL East??

I dont know about all you guys but I dont want eric patterson to be included in the brian roberts deal. Dont get me wrong, I really want roberts, and I would not lose much sleep if patterson is included, however I would love to keep him. I personally believe he has a great future ahead of him, and I would enjoy seeing him make the team this year as fast/utility type player. I think the marshall/gallagher/murton/cedeno deal would be the best...although there is some good talent being lost. We will see I guess, I just hope it gets done soon! What do you all think about patterson?

I am on the other side of the fense on Patterson. I want him in the deal. He would be burried as far as playing time on the Cubs. He is trade bait. I agree I hope he turns out to be decent someday.

The Orioles should want Murton pretty badly. He's going to hit wherever he goes if he gets regular playing time. If he doesn't work out there they can trade him to somewhere else. In fact I'm still peeved that Soriano or Fukodome can't handle center because Murton In left would make this team much better. Sigh..

Hmmm. I hope we acquire both Roberts and Crisp. They are both switch hitters and both from the AL East. Crisp has to have a better season in the NL central and Roberts as well. Making these trades would give the Cubs the most solid and deep lineup in the NL with speed, power and patience.

Upside maybe, but his propensity to strike out is really annoying, plus he isn't fundamentally sound right now. The Cubs are built to win over the next couple of years they need to make every possible attempt to do so.

I wouldn't trust Heyman about anything. He couldn't resist another Angelos dig. Either he's wrong about Angelos or all the Baltimore writers are wrong.

I think, from what I read, that Gallagher and Cedeno are almost certain. What beyond that is a guess, but I think at least one more player of Veal/Ceda quality. There might be a fourth player for just Roberts. If Payton's added, I could see a number of possibilities.

Besides, Crisp is a good player. It's not like we would be taking on a garbage contract.

If Payton is added then it makes sense for Murton to head to the O's. With Payton, Mark DeRosa moving around everywhere, and Fukudome, Murton would get no playing time. The O's would need Murton to platoon with Scott. So I think it will be...

Roberts
Payton
For
Gallagher
Murton
Cedeno

Sounds fair.

As a Cub fan, I disagree it is fair, Joe.

BP has Pie rated below average defensively next year. I will eat this keyboard if that happens. Have you seen pie's defensive metric ratings? They ignore them...

When does Crisp become a free agent?

I'll take Pie right now defensively. If he grows like I hope he will, I'll take Pie's bat in a year, too. Right now, for this team in 2008, Crisp makes sense to allow Pie come into his own. If there is no Crisp deal, well, Pie has to grow into his own quicker. That's all.

Bottom line, if it got rid of Marquis (whom I do not want on this team by the trade dealine), then Crisp is that much more valuable to me.

On the Score 670 Chicago Mike Murphy was saying Marquis is something like 21-10 career in April & May. He started out 5-0 last year. (Who would have thought of trading him then?) Maybe let him make a few starts in frigid, ivyless Wrigley then trade him in June for something of value (knowing he notoriously gets worse the 2nd half.)

I have been looking at the trade the O's made for Bedard (5 for 1) with Sherrill who is a 30 year old reliever who may be good enough to close for the O's. They also got a blue chip outfielder in Jones. Tillman and Butler are very young and are high rated but only Tillman has been in even High A Ball so far and Butler was the 12th rated prospect in their farm system. (Tillman was rated 3rd) I couldn't find much on Kam Mickolio so I doubt he is anything to write home about.

This is what they got for their true Ace pitcher. I dont want to sound like I am making light of Roberts but I dont think that he is a 4 for 1 player and getting mutiple blue chip prospects too. I think and most O's fans agree that Gallagher is a legit prospect/acquisition for this deal. Most also agree that Cedeno is a guy who has raked in AAA but struggled a bit in the "Show" but has shown flashes. So the question is who is the final peice. Is it a position player or a pitcher.

I would guess that Patterson would make sense because he can play 2nd and has high upside. Murton I dont see a long term future for him but he is a high average guy who could DH and platoon in the OF. But he needs 400+ AB. I can see the the Cubs also including someone like Tim Lahey so they get 2 pitchers and 2 position players.

I honestly think that is fair. If they include Payton in the deal then I dont know who they would include Murton for a 5 for 2?

Earlier I mentioned Marshall and Gallagher, Cedeno, and Patterson for roberts/payton but I think the one I just mentioned is actuall a better fit for the O's.

I may be crazy but here is what I would do. If I could exchange Ceda and keep Gallagher I would do that. I would do this:

Ceda/Marshall/Murton/Fox
FOR
Roberts

I would exchange Gallagher for Marshall if they would throw in George Sherrill

There is no doubt that the O's would rather have Cedeno than say Theriot. He has more upside. I think Riot is much more polished but much less upside. The Cubs do have to make it worth while to get Roberts. I am not going to try to project what kind of a player Cedeno will end up as but I do think he is close to being an every day SS.

Maybe being on a team with mutiple other young guys is what he needs. Look at the '99 Twins. They knew they were going to stink but they had fun. And got good along the way. But they did have a couple of "senior" players to show them the ropes. But they didn't have anyone telling them that they werent supposed to be good and I really liked what they developed to.

I think the route the O's are taking is the right path. I hope the fans continue to show up at the ballpark and overlook the stupid young guy errors and smile. I think with their farm, the guys they got in the Bedard trade and what they are going to get from the Cubs they should be ok. Plus I dont anticipate too many wins so they should have some good drafts coming in the next 2 years. Its gonna be fun to watch.

Jrf, If we keep Pie and Gallagher, who were you thinking of you giving the O's?

Any other combination that works. I'm not saying it's realistic, I'm just saying I think we will need Gallagher in the rotation at some point. Something like:

Roberts, Payton
for
Veal, Ceda, Murton, Cedeno.

Stop putting righties Lee-Ramirez-Soriano together. Fukodome will be used to break them up. Roberts and Crisp are switch-hitters, then righty,lefty,righty,righty.

Roberts
Crisp
Lee
Ramirez
Fukodome
Soriano
Soto
Theriot

I agree it's a NL Champion-contending lineup

i hope it would get them NL Central Championship..still there going there not going to get passed the mets, rockies, or d-backs

I like that, crunchy.

Can someone explain to me the roster ramifications for the o's if a 4 for 1 deal goes through? o's roster is full, with the exception of 2 pitchers that possibly will go on the 60 day dl. It seems to me the deal has to be 4 for 2 or 3 for 1 at the most? Am I missing something?

I still think tha Sherrill might be part of the deal with the O's. I have said this before, and most people seem to disagree, but here is my thinking. Pinella said over the weekend or maybe it was Hendry, but anyways they want another lefty in the Pen and indirectly said that they will be trding to get one. Who else would/could they go after? My feeling is that this trade with the O's almost happened before the Bedard trade, but Angelos nixed that. The Cubs knew they wanted a lefty in the Pen, so the O's got him in the trade and the Cubs will sweeten the deal to get him. My feeling is that this trade will be done soon and it could be something that no one would think to say. Hendry is very quiet and sneaky about this stuff and MacPhail learned from him.

I dont think the Cubs will be done trading after this gets done. If they trade Gallagher which I think they might, they could use a #4 - #5 starter.

Or you could sub Murton in for Petrick if you would rather have it that way

Aduncaroo trade-good. Throw in Patterson, they'll need a second baseman. Try to get Sherrill and you are working on a playoff roster.

Jrf, I would like to keep Gallagher, too. I really doubt we will be able to do so.

I really dont want Payton. I have left him off all trades.

I think it is a good point that Patterson may be in the deal because he is a blocked prospect.

Gallagher/Cedeno/Patterson/Fox
OR
Ceda/Veal/Cedeno/Patterson

FOR

Roberts

its going to be a 7 for 3 deal.

Gallagher, Marshall, Veal, Huseby (Or you could swap Ceda for Husaby/Veal), Cedeno, Patterson, Marquis + some cash.

for

Roberts, Sherrill, and Payton

:-) Humor Folks (-:

Haha- (7 for 3) You never know, that could be why it's taking so long! Jim & Andy go way back.

Yeah, I think I'm reaching there...but you never know. I think Payton is FAR more likely than Sherrill though, even if Sherrill would be a great addition.

There's a couple of things that make me think the Cubs are considering including Ceda:
1) He's pitched twice this week when everyone knows O's scouts have been watching.
2) Tim Lahey and Jeff Smardzija have looked very good this spring. That's two power rh relievers. Add Petrick to that equation and it's possible the Cubs have the flexibility (or surplus, as McPhail would say) to trade Ceda.