Braves Offered Teixeira For Youkilis, Hansen?

Hansen was tremendous upside. He could be a dominant closer in the future. He just has a mental hurdle to clear first

I'd be torn on this deal from an NYY fan perspective.

Cons: Teixeira is better than Youkilis.

Pros: Youkilis would likely be really, really sad to leave Boston which would make me really, really happy.

Cons: Boston would have a 50% (or so) chance at picking up the Yankees 1st round pick in 2009.

Pros: Not more looking at Youkilis' disgusting beard 19 times per season.

Cons: Teixeira may decide he loves Boston and sign there for a discounted price.

Pros: Youkilis. Sad.

Toss up I guess.

Mr. Punch, be careful on giving up those power arms so young. As I saw firsthand with Mike Pelfrey (who lots of people thought was a bust), something can just click and then all the sudden these guys are dominant. Pelfrey stunk up the joint for a year and a half, and out of nowhere he looks absolutely dominant.

2008 month by month

April- 22 IP, 4.43 era, 29 hits and 10 walks, just 10k's, .330/.400/.477/.877 line against him

May- 33.2 IP, 5.35 era 41 hits and 15 BB to 19 K's, .308/.388/.414/.802 againt.

June- 31 IP, 3.52 era, 32 hits, 15 BB, 19 k's, .276/.366/.362/.728 against.

July- 22 IP, 0.41 era, 15 hits, 2 BB's, 16 k's, .200/.241/.240/.481 againt.

Point is, Hansen is the same sort of power arm, and as soon as everything clicks he could be dominant. I would be careful of giving up on him just yet. Pelfrey was close to losing his ML job, and everybody around NY wanted him traded for a sack of potatos. You have to be patient with these young arms.

As a Braves fan, I'd love to see the deal made. Youk's certainly more than ready to step in and replace Tex.

Really, though, I'm holding out hope that LA decides to offer up Loney/Kemp for a package centered around Tex. I know it wouldn't make much sense for LA (give up two young stars-in-the-making for a soon-to-be FA and some prospects?), but it would sure be fun to watch.

Even if Youkilis regressed in the second half to last year's post-break numbers and Teixeira performed at his 2005-2007 post-break pace, a half-season of +.200 OPS out of the 1B spot is not worth surrendering 2.5 years of control over Youkilis.

Dont trade Youk Redsox! I agree with Papelboner. Craig Hansen will be a good reliever someday, if not great. Youk is a fan favorite, and is a DirtDog like Trot was, and Tex (probably) wont go team friendly discount. Of course, we'd have the money to pay for him but i'd rather have Youk>Tex. because if nothing else. Youk is younger and Tex is a rental

I'm seeing lots of comments along the lines of Youk is younger and Youk is still growing as a player. Reality check: Mark Teixeira is one year Younger than Kevin Youkilis (my favorite player).

I love how Youkilis plays. Great defender. Tough out. Dirt Dog if you will. However, fans need to realize that Youk will never be better than he is. He is not developing into a 30 HR guy. Its just not going to happen. He is already past that magical age 28 season. He has become a great player despite of himself. He was not blessed with the great physical gifts that most of the good MLB players have (except perhaps for outstanding vision). He is the type of guy that will not age well. He just doesn't have the physical tools to carry him.

I love Kevin Youkilis. The hardest worker on the Sox and maybe in all of baseball, but every time I see him winded after a home run trot, I can see that he will not last as a good player. I'd be willing to bet money that this is the only ALL STAR start in Youk's career.

I see a post saying that half a season of Teix is not worth 2.5 years of controlling Youk. If it brings a championship it is.

If papi comes back in full form the Red Sox do not need Teixeira. If he doesn't, the Sox will be in major trouble. Youk will not approach his 1st half numbers. JD Drew will come down to earth. There will be no one to pick up the slack (Sean Casey isn't enough) and opponents will be outscoring the Sox.

It all rides on Papi's shoulders to keep the Red Sox strong in the second half. I would love for the Red Sox to have some protection there.

I know it sounds like I am ripping on the Sox, but as someone who watches almost every game, I am trying to be realistic based on what I have seen. Maybe Sean Casey keeps Youk fresh and productive, but I'd be surprised.

If I were a Braves fan, I'd want more. Youk is a very good player, but he's already in the middle of his peak and not a star. The Braves are a strong drafting team in need of elite talent. I'd take the upside of the draft picks over a reliever with struggles and an ok 1B who won't get any better.

"I see a post saying that half a season of Teix is not worth 2.5 years of controlling Youk. If it brings a championship it is."

This post presumes that the difference between Teixeira and Youkilis is the different between winning a championship and not winning a championship. There is nothing to back up this claim, except perhaps to speculate that Teixeira's second-half production will be better than Youkilis'. Even then, you have the minor task of proving that that difference in production is crucial to the Red Sox' chances of World Series success.

I'm not sure when 30 HR became the benchmark for productivity, but to the extent that you suggest two full years of Youkilis at .825-.900 OPS with great defense at a reasonable rate is not worth one half season of Teixeira, then you and the Red Sox front office will have to agree to disagree. Apparently they trust the numbers more than your anecdotal observations that Youkilis looks winded when he trots around the bases.

I do not assume that Teix would bring a championship. I do however believe that if Papi does not produce in a serious way upon returning, the Red Sox's chances of winning are slim. Youk's production will drop of the table. Drew's will slide as well.

The Red Sox would be much better served for the remainder of this season with Teix playing first base and in the heart of the line up (I know Youk is a great defender, but Teix has 2 gold gloves. He is great as well). Youk will produce around a .750 OPS in the 2nd half while batting in the heart of the line up. That is a detriment. With Papi questionable, that is a serious risk to take. This team is championship caliber as long as they have a Papi/Teix caliber bat in the middle of the line up. Drew and Youk managed to fill that role in the first half. They will not do so in the 2nd half.

Youkilis is productive. I am not arguing that. The 30 HR comment was directed at people who seem to think he is a 24 year old kid, improving every year. He isn't. I would easily sacrifice having an .840 OPS at first base for two years at reasonable cost, for a better chance at a championship. Youk is not some amazing prospect with tons of upside. 2008 will likely be his career year and it will looks something like: .380 OBP, .480 SLG. If Youk were a 23-24 year old, he would be off limits, but he is going to be 30 next year.

Again: If Papi is Papi, we don't need a big bat. If Papi struggles, or returns to the DL, there won't be anyone to pick up the slack. I don't think Drew has many more 12 HR months in the tank.

I doubt the front office disagrees that there chances of winning a world series are greater with Teixeira. They think that keeping Youk's reasonable contract is worth more than improving the teams chances this year. They are placing their bets on Papi returning and being healthy. They know damn well that they will not be competitive down the stretch without a big bat. They just hope that big bat is Big Papi.

My feeling is that a lot of things need to fall into place for a championship run. When you are close, you need to go for it. I feel (and I doubt the front office would disagree) that Mark Teixeira would improve their chances this year. They just don't think the repercussions are worth it.

Here is a a Red Sox fan hoping David Ortiz is healthy and hitting in August/September/October.

Thats true Baxter...They do lose flexibility. I wonder (and I doubt it is a good idea) how Teix is at 3rd. If I recall correctly, he did come through the minors as a 3rd baseman. I'm sure that wouldn't be pretty. You just put the thought in my head.

As 1st basemen there is hardly a comparison between Youk and Tex; Tex is better. Even his clutch batting w RISP is equal to Youk, which is a quality endearing fans have mostly appreciated about Youk.

But Youk as a 3rd baseman is another story altogether. Even after his 2nd half dropoff Youk still finished the year with the 6th best OPS among still-able ML 3rd baseman, and that's pretty impressive given his abilities as a defender; yes, even at 3rd.

And he can defend in the OF, as well.

I say that multi-positional ability is more valuable than whatever upgrade Tex brings at 1st. The cost differential between the two is just icing.

Does he really continue to improve? We'll see at the end of the year.

Mid season OPS last season = .920
Mid season OPS this season = .933
Pretty much exactly the same.

Let's see if Youk can crack a .750 OPS in the second half.

Yes, He has trended upward in offensive categories, but if you want to believe those trends, you should not write off his dramatic second half swoon trend that suggests a drop of 150-170 points in OPS.

I have said multiple times on this thread the Youk is my favorite player. I will admit, however, that he is a flawed player. His lack of athleticism (compared to most of the genetic freaks in the MLB) causes him to wear down in the 2nd half. Its a trend with a reason. He plays above his skill level. He works harder than just about anybody on the field and it takes its toll. This isn't one of those strange "why is he better in the first half?" questions. It is understood that this guy busts his ass to the point where eventually wears down, and it affects his play.

My feeling is that Youk is great, but the Red Sox can't count on him performing anywhere near his current level (or anywhere near the level of mark teixeira) in the second half.

Youk has been a huge part of the Sox success so far this season, but I don't believe that this will be the case in the second half.

If David Ortiz does not produce at the stud levels of the past (which is asking a lot of the guy considering his wrist injury) the Red Sox will be in serious trouble.

I personally believe it's more than a coincidence how JD has exploded batting in front of Manny.

So, yeah; flip the two players 2007 performances and you have a wash in 2008.

The Sox need bullpen help... why not make the trade Teixeira and Ohman for Youkilis and Hansen? Or just Texiera and Ohman for Youkilis?

The Braves refuse to spend money on relief pitching, so Ohman isn't coming back next year...

although, i must admit

ellsbury
pedroia
ortiz
rameriz
teixeira
drew
lowell
varitek
lugo

is by far the best offensive team i have ever seen in my lifetime. (pending ortiz's health of course) ever so tempting...

Just throwing something out there, but what do you guys think of this deal?

Red Sox get: Teixeira, Ohman and SS Brent Lillibridge

Braves get: Youkilis, Buchholz

yeah bravesfan, i am even a braves fan and you and i both know the sox won't give up buchholz for anything. replace him with something like baleen suggested and you might have a deal.

if the braves want any sort of starting pitching from the Sox that's ML ready (or close to it) they're going to have to add a 4th player to that deal, or replace lil'bridge with a more proven commodity, IMHO. Kelly Johnson comes to mind but that has a couple of complications.

A. The Sox don't really have a spot for him
B. The Braves don't have a viable in-house replacement

Hah! 04Forever, I am assuming that means you are 4 years old. The best offensive team in your lifetime? Tek can't get around at 85 mph fastballs, Lugo is a lost cause and Manny somwtimes doesn't really resemble Manny. I'm not suggesting that the Red Sox offense is not good, but remember that playing 81 games in Fenway Park will increase offensive output by about 5% conservatively over the course of a year.

The best offensive team in your lifetime....absolutely laughable.

The only way this happens is if Ortiz cannot comeback this season, and even if he can't I'd rather trade for Matt Holiday.

"Land-Man ummm you do realize that's Mark Teixeira, there is no way that deal offered was out of the realm of possibility."

It's not "Mark Teixeira" so much as "1/3 Mark Teixeira." If the Braves dealt Teix to the Red Sox on the July 31 deadline, there would be just 53 games remaining on the regular-season schedule.

Even IF a negotiating window came with it, the prize would be "1/3 Mark Teixeira" plus the 'privilege' of paying him present market value for a term of years that will almost certainly outstrip his productivity.

Let's not forget what Johan Santana fetched.

"Even IF a negotiating window came with it, the prize would be "1/3 Mark Teixeira" plus the 'privilege' of paying him present market value for a term of years that will almost certainly outstrip his productivity."

And a 1st round pick and a supplemental pick. If they've decided that Hansen won't have a major role in their pen (which is fairly possible with Papelbon, Delcarmen, Masterson, Bard, etc), they could be looking at it as Teixeira + 1st for Youkilis and Hansen for the 35th or so pick. Not awful logic.

Not Joe Morgan,

I covered the draft pick compensation above, and I don't think that even four draft picks + two rentals matches the value of 2+ years of Youkilis + several years of cost control over either Anderson or Buccholz. If Teixeira were the second coming of Christ, it might be a different story, but it's not as though he would be stepping into to provide an upgrade over a corpse. The upgrade between Teix and Youk over a span of just 53-65 games is just not worth enough wins to justify a move.

Youkilis, Buchholz, Anderson, Delcarmen, Masterson, Bard... these are what GMs are hoping for when they use their selections.

If it came down to two years of a .850-.900 OPS who plays a solid 1B and can step into a utility role at other positions, or two scratch-off tickets in the draft lottery, the known quantity carries much higher value.

For every Joba Chamberlain or Clay Buchholz, there is a Matt Bush. If I were to tell you that two of the Red Sox picks last year were Ryan Dent and Will Middlebrooks, and then asked you how much you were willing to wager on whether either would ever put up an .850 OPS in the majors, I'll bet you'd be hard-pressed to put up any cash. Such is the nature of the crapshoot. Some teams are better at the crapshoot than others, but a bird in the hand is still worth more than two in the bush leagues.

If the redsox are going to trade for a bat it is going to be holliday becasue he is signed through 2009 and he could replace Manny in left field. They could do a deal like bowden, reddick, and another prospet for holliday. They could even do a larger deal that included Holliday and fuentes, but it would cost them around four of their better prospects do get it down.

In the end, I see them not trading for anybody and just using internal options.

Anderson is in high A, so I'm guessing you mean below A ball? The Red Sox have 4 players in Portland who are slugging.474 or better, lead by Jeff Corsaletti. The entire Pawtucket OF is sluuging over .500, but they're probably all AAAA guys, except for maybe Carter.

Dunkin, definitely agree that its a crapshoot. However, given that one of the pieces of the mentioned deal is a 1st round reliever who, to date, is only touted because of his draft status its not a huge bounty. And perhaps its over projecting, but Boston showed this year a greater and greater willingness to take the tough sign players. Give them 3 in the first 40 picks or so and that could be a massive bounty for, essentially, a good 1B who is pounding on his talent ceiling as we type. I don't think anyone believes Youkilis will ever have more value than he does right now.

I dont know why the Red Sox would ever do this deal but as a Braves fan im loving this. how bout this:
Braves get:
Kevin Youkilas 1B
Michael Bowden SP/Justin Masterson SP

Red Sox get:
Mark Texeira 1B
Will Ohman RP
Brandon Jones OF

Isn't it pretty much the first job of any GM to deny they are talking to a team about a star player? Especially in a media frenzy city such as Boston or New York.

Also, 2 years ago when Boston and Atlanta were rumored to be talking about Andruw Jones, didn't they ask for Hansen? The kid has great stuff, when he actually throws his slider it's one of the most devastating I've seen, just he still seems to believe his fastball is his best weapon. Point being, do the Braves consider Hansen to be a bigger piece than he really is?

Allow me to crush this nonsense.

Who is the Red Sox backup 3rd baseman if Youkilis is traded?

Gordon Edes should be fired for even suggesting such a dumb idea.

If Lowell gets hurt, Youk slides to 3rd and Casey to first.

If the Sox trade for Teixiera, not only is it a bad move for now, but it also takes away any insurance for Lowell (who by the way spent several weeks on the DL this year for those who forgot).

Forget Youks second half struggles and all the other nonsense; if the Sox trade Youk, they are exposed to serious problems if injury sets in.

Youk hits anywhere in the lineup, has played LF/RF/3B/1B whenever he has needed to.

Teixiera might offer slightly more on offense, but he be a downgrade on flexibility to the lineup should issues arise.

yanks26ngoin,

who plays 3rd for the Red Sox if Lowell gets hurt?

You may not see the value in Youkilis, but I gurantee the Red Sox do given his versatility.

Anyone who knows baseball will take a slight downgrade on offense to have flexibility with the roster.

Red Sox must know baseball pretty well given their 2 Championships in last 4 years.

lets leave this up to the guys who get paid to make these decisions.

"(2.5 cost controlled years of Youk and the potentially dominant RH setup pitcher in Hansen)"

Backwards responding:

2nd half: By this criteria, any reliever who throws hard and has a projectable out pitch is "potentially dominant". Jose Veras might actually qualify as dominant. 22 Ks versus 18 BBs at age 24 (not old, but not so young you can dismiss the numbers) is not impressive.

1st half: This is the part that gets me wondering. He's cost controlled in the sense that he's arbitration eligbile but he's also making almost $4MM this year and sure to go up quite a bit. Perhaps Theo & company have decided that he's nowhere near an $8MM 1B to them and that money can be better used elsewhere while finding a stopgap between Youk/Teixeira and Anderson. As good as he's been this year, which no one is disputing, he was basically league average last year (14th among 1Bs in EqA).

For those concerned about "OMG WHO PLAYZ THIRD IF YOUK LEAVES"...

how quickly we forget that tex is a 3b-turned-1b.

"Hahaha, of course Gammons would say this. He has a man crush on the Red Sox! The Braves would be getting killed in that deal. Tex is far better than pukilis. Hansen is not enough to make up for that differance there. If you really think puke is going to hit over 300 for the year, your out of your mind. What would you rather have? A potential 50 HR guy, or a .290 hitter, at best? Im saying a 50 HR guy, but thats just me. If the Braves seriously offered that, The Red Sox would have accepted it in a heart beat. I think the next time Peter Gammons says something about the Red Six getting a star, no one should read much into it, because its not true. The Red Sox would have accepted that deal. Unless of course, they overrate pukeilis and hansen."

Are you illiterate or simply a crazed yankee fan?

Way to straw man that argument, Tex is a 50 hr threat but Youk is nothing more than a 290 hitter.

Ok...

The wonderful world of FACTS:

Teixeira has had just 1, 40+ HR season. It was in 2005 when he hit 30 of his 43 HR's at home in hitter friendly Arlington.

Not sure how a guy who has averaged 30-35 HR's a season becomes a 50 HR threat.

Currently, Teixiera is on pace for numbers right in line with his yearly avg of about 30HR's /120 RBI's.

Obviously those are solid numbers, but tough to argue they are so signficant that they would warrant the Sox giving up quality players under their control for several more years to obtain.

Has it occured to anyone that the Sox offense (without Ortiz and with Tek hitting .219) has been one of the best in the game.

Odd they would be concerned about adding a 1st baseman before a catcher or SS if they really wanted to add offense?

"Unless of course, they overrate pukeilis and hansen."

That's actually Frank Wren weighing in on the issue.

Would the Dodgers be willing to trade Kemp, Loney, and Broxton for Teixeira, Ohman, and a prospect or two? The Braves would be foolish to give up more.

Neftali Feliz: recently named BA's #12 mid-season prospect, 20 yr old, AA Frisco, throws 100 mph

Elvis Andrus: still considered a top prospect with excellent defensive skills, 19 yr old, AA Frisco, .297 BA and 34 SBs

Matt Harrison: Been through AA, AAA, and has now made 2 major league starts at 22 yrs old.

Beau Jones: 21 yr old LHP has been converted from SP to RP for High-A Bakersfield, over his last 19.2 IP he has a 0.92 ERA with 26 Ks.

Jarrod Saltalamacchia: 23 yr old has struggled in a platoon role this year with Gerald Laird/Max Ramirez. Still considered to have a bright future and is either a piece of Rangers' future or an excellent trade chip.

Would that package net Youkilis/Hansen?

That was a year ago, and is looking like a very stupid trade.

At least Renteria for Jurrjens/Gorkys did something to offset it.

"Neftali Feliz: recently named BA's #12 mid-season prospect, 20 yr old, AA Frisco, throws 100 mph

Elvis Andrus: still considered a top prospect with excellent defensive skills, 19 yr old, AA Frisco, .297 BA and 34 SBs

Matt Harrison: Been through AA, AAA, and has now made 2 major league starts at 22 yrs old.

Beau Jones: 21 yr old LHP has been converted from SP to RP for High-A Bakersfield, over his last 19.2 IP he has a 0.92 ERA with 26 Ks.

Jarrod Saltalamacchia: 23 yr old has struggled in a platoon role this year with Gerald Laird/Max Ramirez. Still considered to have a bright future and is either a piece of Rangers' future or an excellent trade chip.

Would that package net Youkilis/Hansen?"

You're not factoring in the dollars or years Tex will command after 08. Or the gaping hole Youk's absence would create, forcing the Sox to fill half their infield (assuming Lugo is done).

A NOTE TO TIM, you are a hypocrite... You leave people calling other people idiots on your site, which means the same thing as calling someone an ass, this isn't church and everyone who puts "****" instead of the word... They make sure you know what it means, like F*ck You!! Guess what the missing letter is!! Yeah, if you don't know that you are brain dead, but you leave those posts up, comical!

In your attempt to cleanup your site, I've noticed (arguments with them or not) you've alienated the real fans, instead of these Sunday game watchers who know nothing... For a site that's supposed to be cutting edge for information and have informed discussions, you've sold out, not in a Platinum selling Load/Reload Metallica way, but more like a Garth Brooks/Vanilla Ice changing genres so that they can try something "new and exciting" type of way...

What this site was good at was being a little low brow comment wise, but no different than the conversations that would go on at your local bar between fans from competing teams... Now you've tried to take the pub to Rodeo (pronounced Row-Day-O, in case you were wondering it wasn't a southern reference) Drive and it just doesn't fit... Kind of sad really...

I'd take a slang/krass/crude verbal tirade over this "well, John, I respectfully disagree with that form of thinking as it's highly illogical that such would occur... A more sound way of thinking might lead to a resolution that is more likely considered fair by the two parties involved." Sorry, but nobody wants to read what equates to 20 pages per topic of that preacher crap, they come on here half the time to see the sh*t (happy??) talking that goes on because it's entertaining...

I hate AriGoldisaG, yet still I get a kick out of reading his attempts at insulting others... Just because a couple people come crying to you, doesn't mean you did the right thing by doing something about it... In most cases the kid that started it got popped in the beak on a counter punch and then goes and cries to the authority figure, but you are rewarding this start a fight then cry when you get hurt mentality...

By the way, you let his (Ari) little ass say whatever he wants as long as he uses "****". It's really funny because anyone that has half a brain should be offended that you would draw the line where you have, as if to say your viewer base is too stupid to know the difference between how I say it and how Ari says it...

You've definitely pulled a Microsoft with your website, not only did you make poor "upgrades", but now you are forcing it down the throats of your consumers with no regard for what the reaction might be to this... I mean you had the XP of baseball blogging sites and decided that in all your egotism, you needed to create a baseball mecca and the end result was Vista...

The problem is that instead of converting to Vista, you won't gain the long standing followers because those are true fans, not the ones on here today and yet you are alienating the other ones as they are looking for other chatting communities... It's like opening the door to another operating system, nobody wants to relearn how to operate their computer, but given the options, they'll go away from MS products, since both require the same amount of effort and they now have a reason to not like MS products with the crap they pulled on taking away XP and it's support system...

Now you are doing the same thing with this site, the only motification you needed to make was getting rid of type key and instead you changed everything else, but yet there's still type key on your site!! It's like having a flat tire and getting your oil changed with your last 40 bucks, yet you're still riding on your rim!

I bet you were the outcast in school, like the water boy/scorekeeper/coach's special assistant when you were in high school and this site is your life because it's your first chance to feel cool... News flash people are on her for the baseball, not because of you, take away baseball and you aren't anything but another talking head... You put up a person about Tim section, which I thought was priceless, talk about self centered, like anyone gives a crap about where you've been or what you do!

As long as my hamburger is done the right way, I don't care where the guy working the drive thru window has been, what he's done, how he lives, or what his goals are, I just want my sandwich and to go... Same with this site, you may be a legend in your own mind, but nobody else shares your thinking... Delete the post, it's the cowardly thing to do, hiding the bad... You should know best how to do that!

Manny24 Youk was born Mar 15, 1979, and Tex was born Apr 11, 1980. so Youk is a year and almost a month older. but i agree with the rest of your post.

To BaseballGuru that wasnt called for. Tim is providing us an amazing service, for free no less. and for that i am thankful. if you dont like tim or any of the rumors keep that to yourself, dont just go ranting about nothing. if you dont like the site, dont come to it. end of discussion.

Guru, why bother posting. If you don't like the site and comments, no one is making you read it. At least I don't think so, I don't know your home life. But after reading your rant I've lost several minutes of my life that I will never get back, so please use that stolen time to get a few extra minutes of sleep tonight.

no problem manny24, i made that same mistake earlier in the post and was told that i was wrong. i thought exactly as you did.