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More On Harden, Sabathia Trades

I've got some odds and ends related to the Rich Harden and CC Sabathia trades.

  • The Cub Reporter had an interesting post yesterday, stating that Harden can demand a trade after this season under the old CBA.  The Cubs could always sidestep that by declining Harden's $7MM option and going through the arbitration process with him.  I ran this by a source close to the situation, and he said the Cubs are not worried about Harden demanding a trade.
  • Bruce Miles talks about the "great personal and working relationship" between GMs Jim Hendry and Billy Beane.
  • Susan Slusser says Beane never inquired on the Cubs' top draft pick from 2007, third baseman Josh Vitters.  She says the A's did not consider it appropriate to ask for a player they had no chance of getting.
  • Slusser adds that "there is thought among other clubs that the A's might deal Matt Murton or Eric Patterson."
  • Authors at the Hardball Times did a roundtable about both trades.
  • Squawking Baseball praises Beane's boldness.
  • The Royals spoke internally about Sabathia, but it never got to the point of a discussion with the Indians.


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"the A's did not consider it appropriate to ask for a player they had no chance of getting."

My respect for Beane has exponentially increased.

Suck it McPhail, Colleti, Daniels and any other classless numbnut that doesn't realize the value of honest, sensible negotiations and the relationships they build.

Amen Macky

Since when did Billy adopt this new stance? He's made a career of asking for players he shouldn't have any chance of landing and then getting idiot GM's to actually give him the players.

bjguess-agree with you that Beane gets top value the majority of times, but he goes about it in a better way. He sets the bar high at the beginning of talks and if the price can’t be met, the deal doesn’t get done. He doesn’t start backpedaling in desperation to get a deal done when he sees that the other party is backing out. You know from the start where he is coming from. It’s an open an honest process.

The others I mentioned, they’re the dirtiest kind of used car salesmen you’ve ever met. Not just trying to win a deal, but trying to fleece and embarrass the other party:

Daniels: I’m not sure who gave you this bad information. Marlon Byrd is much more than 4th outfielder. Sure he’s hitting .238 w/ 3 HR, but he’s an integral part of our championship future. Also, he’s got low miles and runs like new…was owned by a little old lady that only took him out on Sundays on her way to church. My manager would fire me on the spot if I let him go for any less than Murton and one of your three best pitching prospects.

Hendry: click…dial tone….(deletes Daniels contact info from cell)

I disagree with the Beane assertion above. If there's one thing that defines him, its knowing exactly when to trade a player at peak value. I can't recall any time when he's pulled in an established player or top prospect that he shouldn't have any right to outside of the Mulder deal (and I'm sure every GM has one of those on his record, both ways).

Another reason to admire Beane. I'd give kudos to Hendry as well, he knew he didn't have the type of horse the Indians wanted for Sabathia, so he didn't waste their time either. Hendry remains an underrated GM, when McPhail and Daniels tried to fleece him this offseason he stood his ground and looked elsewhere to make some key additions. The bottom line is when you've got too good, honest GMs negotiating you get a good, honest deal. As I've said before, I think this Harden deal will work out for both teams.

Ahhh the realistic GM, I love how everyone is getting all excited that Beane didn't ask for someone he didn't deserve in the first place. I think that people have to admit that Vitters is a legitimate top prospect, I really think this guy could be a cornerstone in a couple years. I'll miss Gallagher, but c'mon, its Rich Harden.

Jim Hendry and Billy Beane both simply understand how to do business the right way. They realize how to strike a balance between getting the best deal for their team and still doing things fairly, evenly, and with integrity. And they're proof that you can do things that way regardless of whether you run a small market, payroll-conscious team that covets young, talented players with upside that are under contract control (like Beane does), or a big-market, big-spending team that can afford to spend big money to contend (like Hendry). Kudos to both of them.
As a Cubs fan, it's refreshing to have a GM in this town who is committed to putting a winner on the field and utilizing all the resources available to him, while still being responsible. Hendry has no problem making a big splash when necessary (The Soriano signing, the Nomar trade, the Harden trade), knows how to take care of his own players (Zambrano, Lee, and Ramirez extensions), and is agressive in the trade market when necessary without overpaying. (I.E., not overpaying for Brian Roberts this spring and then turning those exact same players into Rich Harden a few months later.)
I hope whoever the new owner of the Cubs turns out to be realizes what he has and keeps Hendry around for a long, long time.

Considering the bullpen,offense, and defense will the cubs win by more then 7 games? I think so..the cubs have a +110 runs difference. The Cubs are the most solid team in the NL. Jim Hendry is the best GM in the Majors.

beane did the same in haren dealings, obviously it was mentioned he did not ask for upton/youngdrew etc it doesnt hurt in asking in my opinion. why not ask for their best prospect, if unavailable, find a common ground who is available.plus why trade for murton/patterson then trade them? no interest in pie/coliv, ceda, hill/marshall/veal instead?

If you look around MLB (any sport) long enough at how each team conducts business, you see the good and bad GMs. Not bad in the sense of a bad trade or FA signing. Every GM of every team has a deal or two they wish turned out better or not at all. The good GMs limit the bad deals. I am talking about a bad GM who can't work with other GMs, agents or is trying to 'steal' from the other GMs. These GMs hurt the team's reputation and potential deals to better the team, like the above names.

The alarm in the Harden deal was his injury track record. That is why Gaudin was included. This way, Beane/Hendry worked an insurance to the trade if Harden goes down for any long stretch (I smacked my hand for even typing that). Kudos to Beane. Like Crunchy noted, kudos to Hendry for knowing CC was out of range and not wasting time. Maybe someone else jumps in on Harden if Hendry wastes a lot of time pursuing CC. Then he gets neither and we are analizing a Wolf deal.

All I know is that I am thrilled with what we gave up for 1.5 years of Harden, even with the risk, rather than what we would have had to give up (apparently we didn't even have enough) for 2 months of Sabathia.

Other than Gallagher, whom I like, our entire farm system is still in tact as far as players that we might actually use in the future.

Aduncaroo,

I definatley agree with you. We have saved Josh Vitters, Rich Hill, Felix Pie, Donald Veal, Jose Ceda, Tyler Colvin, and other solid prspects. Andy MacFAIL wanted Gallagher, Veal, Ceda, and Cedeno. The Cubs gave up Gallagher, Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson for Harden and Gaudin. About the same talent wise, I even think the package they gave up for Harden was a little less. But Harden is WAY better than Roberts plus you also get Chad Gaudin in the deal. Now the Cubs can afford to let Dempster walk and possibly trade Marquis. (Eat about 5MM of the 9MM left on his deal) Then use the money to sign Kerry Wood. A rotation of Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Gaudin, and Marshall/Hill would be solid. Especially if Hill bounces back to have a good year. You also have Samardzjia and Hart for rotation depth. Veal and Ceda could come up and replace Bob Howry and Scott Eyre.

BTW, I know this is not going to happen, but wouldn't it be cool if we let Wood walk and then signed CC Sabathia. A Zambrano, Sabathia, Harden rotation would be completely filthy.

I'm sorry but you guys are missing the most important part of this post.

"The Royals spoke internally about Sabathia, but it never got to the point of a discussion with the Indians."

ROFLMAOO!
Imagine the Royals. Now imagine Sabathia on their team. Now imagine them trying to win outside of Sabathia pitching.
But at least they don't have to face him anymore.

I think I'm alright with the longterm contracts this team has. I don't want the Cubs signing CC for 6 or 7 years...thats just too much money tied up for way too long. After 09, assuming Harden is still pitching well and is relatively healthy, you could probably get him signed for 3 or less because of his injury history.

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