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« Rockies Rumors: Holliday, Taveras, Atkins | Main | Yankees Rumors: Cameron, Melky, Pettitte, Lowe »
Orioles, Reds, Tigers, Jays Interested In Greene
THURSDAY: Reds GM Walt Jocketty shot down the rumor that he was interested in Greene. If he adds a shortstop, it'll be a 0-3 guy.
TUESDAY, 11:21pm: Tom Krasovic adds the Blue Jays to the mix for Greene. Padres GM Kevin Towers says Greene would likely be traded in a separate deal rather than packaged with Jake Peavy.
7:42pm: The Red Sox and Padres made a point to officially dismiss the idea of Crisp for Greene.
2:59pm: It seems that LaRue was saying both Crisp and Greene are available, not that one was offered for the other. So, scratch the Crisp for Greene rumor.
11:13am: The Red Sox are offering Coco Crisp for Greene, according to Larry LaRue of The News Tribune. That'd be surprising, as the Sox don't figure to be in the market for a shortstop.
8:46am: According to Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune, the Orioles, Reds, and Tigers are among the teams interested in Padres shortstop Khalil Greene. GM Kevin Towers admits to having "nibbles" on Greene.
Prior to his self-inflicted broken hand, Greene hit a woeful .213/.260/.339 in 423 plate appearances. The Padres filed a grievance to recover salary due to the injury, so they're probably not on the best of terms right now. Greene did not impress defensively either - he made four fewer plays than the average shortstop. Greene is owed $6.5MM in 2009, and Krasovic says he turned down a four-year, $29MM offer a year ago.
Seemingly, the Padres would attempt to acquire a shortstop in a Jake Peavy trade if they move Greene. Yunel Escobar and Ronny Cedeno have been mentioned in rumors. The Reds' interest in Greene seems to indicate a lack of faith in Alex Gonzalez, presumably next year's starting shortstop.
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Not that the O's really want him, what what would this cost them? A low level prospect and eating some of the salary?
Posted by: O's in '13 | November 04, 2008 at 08:58 AM
Personally, I dont understand the fascination with Khalil Greene. Does anyone else feel the same way?
Posted by: JP | November 04, 2008 at 08:59 AM
JP: I think it has to do with the fact that Khalil's defense used to be among the leagues best. Also I think it has to do with the fact that while his offensive numbers aren't great he does put up some homeruns. Most people probably feel that getting away from Petco his numbers will increase. While I don't think Greene leaving Petco will suddently turn him into Cal Ripken, he probably will improve to the point to be worth his $6.5 salary. Also look at the teams in on him O's had no production from SS last year and the Tigers just let Renteria go. Reds need for him is a bit less but he could be a bit of an upgrade.
As for Greene's value I feel its almost totally a salary dump type of deal. I don't think any serious (or even semi serious) prospect gets moved. I would look for a AAAA type of player maybe 2 of them and thats about it. Say maybe Rocky Cherry and Fahey from the O's.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 04, 2008 at 09:36 AM
Because if he played anywhere else he would be considered in the discussions of the best SS's in the game. Greene's numbers have been massacred by playing in Petco, and has always had gigantic home/road splits. If he played in Wrigley or Cincy you're looking at a SS who could pop 30 HR with an acceptable AVG and OBP who is above average defensively. Yes, he was abominable last year, but he had a FRAR2 of 41 in 2007 and of 38 in '06. Too much is made of his '08 season, and if(when) he is traded I think we'll see some potentially big numbers.
Posted by: VAFriar | November 04, 2008 at 09:44 AM
Well, I understand that logic, however, I view Greene the same way as I do Brian Roberts. They are both good players, but teams seem to just be throwing so much out there to possibly acquire them that I don't see the benefit. To me, the player needs to be a super-star caliber before trading away such great talent as some teams would do for Greene and Roberts.
Posted by: JP | November 04, 2008 at 09:46 AM
Greene seems to be the quintessential player who needs a change of scenery. Seems like he's never been happy in SD, or at least never been happy with the Padres. Maybe he has just always wanted to go to a big market team so that he could get paid better? Getting him out of Petco would do a lot for his numbers and his psyche, which seems to be an issue with him.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think a lot of teams view him as a possible sleeper, someone they could pick up cheap and get great value from. Problem is the Pads probably realize that too. They'll as a lot based on his perceived value and they'll get offered little base on his 2008 value.
Posted by: pageian | November 04, 2008 at 10:13 AM
JP: Greene isn't even in the same category of Brian Roberts. The problem with Roberts is teams tried to send 4 or 5 C prospects or fringe players thats why the rumor mill blew up last year. While Greene's numbers would go up outside of Petco its hard to say how far they'd go up. In 2 of the last 4 years 05 and 08 Greene's numbers either didnt go up on the road or went up much at all. 06 and 07 on the other hand his home/road splits were much more significant. The question is what Kahil Greene will you get.
Roberts on the other hand is one of the leagues best secondbasemen he is very solid defensively and one of the games best leadoff hitters. Greene is no better then a 6 hitter. Roberts has posted higher OPS numbers the last 4 years as well as being among the top 4 in Runs Created among 2B (as well as over 100 RC) in 3 of the last 4 years. The only exception with 2006 when he was coming back from the broken arm and missed 25 games.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 04, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Somebody please take Greene away from SD...I was a fan earlier in his career but at this point I'm tired of his "I don't care" attitude and the fact that he swings at every pitch that lands 2 feet outside in the dirt...him breaking his hand was the 1st emotions I've ever seen from him and look what that got him...it's time to part ways and see what he can do elsewhere...
Posted by: randam12 | November 04, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Well, IMO they're both overrated.
Posted by: JP | November 04, 2008 at 11:03 AM
If you read the article, it seems like Larry is just saying that Coco is available, not that the Sox are offering him for Khalil.
Posted by: Scott | November 04, 2008 at 11:22 AM
The Greene for Crisp swap makes sense if the Sox find someone to take Lugo. A lot of people I talk to agree with me that it's a big risk to rely heavily on Lowrie as the starter without a solid backup.
Posted by: baseballasagame | November 04, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Coco for Green? thats interesting. Green would start at short with Lowrie as a supersub or play third if Lowell cant. intresting...
Posted by: GeneralManager | November 04, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Tim, I read the Larry LaRue article a little differently. I think LaRue was just highlighting some of the players that are being discussed at the meetings, not necessarily a Greene for Crisp swap. Besides, we have enough issues at SS as it is. Furthermore, I personally think if the Sox are shopping Crisp, surely they can do better than Khalil Greene...
Posted by: bamabosoxfan | November 04, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I agree I think he is just mentioning that Crisp is being shopped. Not only do the Sox don't need a SS but why after Lugo would they go after Greene. I have to say no way to this rumor.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 04, 2008 at 11:27 AM
If I'm KT and crisp is being offered for greene I RUN to except that trade. No way that's real.
Posted by: joemorgan=#1 | November 04, 2008 at 11:28 AM
I see it as being a realistic trade. Greene is very much a pull hitter, and you could see a similar benefit to that seen with Lowell. Also he is a good glove at SS. His career OPS away from Petco is also .802 which is good for a SS. The deal makes sense.
Posted by: cwilli | November 04, 2008 at 11:32 AM
I can't see Coco being traded for Greene at all, sounds like one of those phantom rumors that happen in the silly season.
I see Theo concentrating on relief help and C.
Posted by: Peagle8 | November 04, 2008 at 11:38 AM
What would the Red Sox do with Lugo? Or even Lowrie?
Posted by: Michael M | November 04, 2008 at 11:42 AM
"11:13am: The Red Sox are offering Coco Crisp for Greene, according to Larry LaRue of The News Tribune"
Towers has got to make that deal. Greene was brutal last season, and his well reputed defense wasn't even great. Crisp is a good defensive CF who could cover the ground in Petco well, and he would give them an interesting bat for their lineup that would add some speed. I'm not even really sure why the Red Sox would want to make this deal, unless there is an anticipated Julio Lugo trade.
Posted by: scribbletone | November 04, 2008 at 11:48 AM
If this is true and I was Towers I would take the deal in a second...shoot I'd trade Greene for a box of Cookie Crisps let alone Coco!!!
Posted by: randam12 | November 04, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Greene for Crisp is about as equal a trade as you get. Crisp is a stud backup or a lower tier starter with great defensive ability. Greene is a high upside player coming off a terrible year. Both are inexpensive as starters but expensive for the bench.
Greene would have a field day with the Monster and is known to prefer being closer to home on the east coast. The question is whether the BoSox need a guy at Short
Posted by: AA | November 04, 2008 at 12:08 PM
The Reds HAD a career .247 hitter who hit Home Runs and Struck Out over 100 times. His name was Adam Dunn and look how THAT turned out.
Khalil Greene is Adam Dunn without the Walks.
When are the Reds Front Office people and Ownership going to get it through their collective thick skulls that loading the line up with below average hitters who can only hit Home Runs is a BAD idea??
The Reds have had eight straight LOSING seasons. In five of those eight years, they have had a losing record at Home. In all eight years, they have had a LOSING record on the Road. I am pretty sure in all eight of these seasons, the Reds have hit more Home Runs and scored more Runs per Game at Home than they have on the Road. This tells me that because of the Home park they play in, the team is just swinging for the fences all the time.
The Home Run first approach to the Offense is a HORRIBLE way to construct a line up. When you have guys who hit .250 or less, Strike Out over 30% of the time and who can hit the occasional Home Run, you get exactly what the Reds have done the last eight years. This is why the Reds can win one Game and score 10 Runs but then lose the next three when they have trouble scoring three Runs a Game. This is why you have Pitchers with good peripheral numbers but a losing record.
In 2007, Bronson Arroyo was 9 and 15 with a 4.23 ERA. In six Games he started, the Reds lost 3 to 2. In four other Games he started, they were Shut Out. So, in 10 of his Starts (29%), the Reds Offense scored two or fewer Runs for him. In 2008, it was Aaron Harang's time to be the whipping boy. This past year, he was in the top three in the NL as far as Pitchers getting the LEAST Run support per Game.
Because of this hit or miss approach to the Offense and because of the lack of Run support on the Road, this is exactly WHY the Reds NEED Jeff Keppinger.
In 2007, Keppinger hit well over .300 against; Left Handed Pitchers, Right Handed Pitchers, on the Road, with RISP, with RISP and two Outs and .667 with the Bases Loaded. He also only Struck Out 12 times in 241 At Bats (4.97%).
In 2008, before he was injured, he was again hitting well over .300 and was leading the team in RBI's. Even though he only hit .266 this year, he again hit over .300 against; Left Handed Pitching, on the Road, with RISP and .571 with the Bases Loaded. He Struck Out 24 times in 459 At Bats (5.23%).
In short, if the Reds are going to WIN Games on the Road and get into the Play Offs, they are going to have to get and keep guys who can consistantly make contact and get Hits. They are going to have to have guys who can drive people in WITHOUT having to rely solely on the Home Run to do it.
This means getting and keeping guys like Jeff Keppinger and staying away from players like Adam Dunn, Alex Gonzalez and Khalil Greene.
Posted by: ctownboy | November 04, 2008 at 12:19 PM
I hate greene, i hope he never comes to the reds, like the reds fan above stated he strikes out too much and has a terrible avg. Fans would WEAR HIM OUT in cincinnati. Too similar to the players the reds have had. NO NO NO NO NO!
Posted by: jbibbali | November 04, 2008 at 01:06 PM
Greene had good years in '06 and '07 but look at his road stats in '08:
.212/.225/.317
LOL LOL LOL
Posted by: kinsler5 | November 04, 2008 at 01:22 PM
i really don't understand the reds interest in greene. even if you take agon out of the equation, keppinger is as good a fit as greene is. if they want to bring someone in it needs to be someone of the likes of furcal or cabrera. shouldn't be wasting time, talent, or money on greene.
Posted by: coltholt | November 04, 2008 at 01:45 PM
take Greene out of SD and he could be a much better player.
home/away splits for 2007/2006..
07 home- .216 AVG/ .258 OBP/ .412 SLG/ .670 OPS/
07 away- .288 AVG/ .322 OBP/ .519 SLG/ .840 OPS/
06 home- .210 AVG/ .282 OBP/ .346 SLG/ .628 OPS/
06 away- .280 AVG/ .356 OBP/ .507 SLG/ .863 OPS/
Posted by: SpecialFNK | November 04, 2008 at 05:35 PM
I wonder what it would take for the Mariners to pry Swisher away...
Posted by: baseballismylyf4 | November 04, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Dynasty,
You're going to get a young catcher for Coco Crisp? ...Seriously?
Posted by: MorneauVP | November 04, 2008 at 11:55 PM
greene to O's makes sense
the change-of-scenery thing, only one year commitment if it doesn't work, not to mention they don;t really have a starting shortstop
if i was san diego, i'd spend the extra $2mill and go for ramon hernandez for many of the same reasons as above, also with the thought that having hernandez might benefit both the the young pitchers and young catchers.
but the padres aren't me and will take whatever the cheapo route is
Posted by: crash | November 05, 2008 at 12:22 AM
With the way Greene was described above, i wouldnt think many teams would give much for this guy.
Posted by: elbrav0 | November 05, 2008 at 12:31 AM
MorneauVP,
Dynasty is one of those RedSox that us regulars dont usually listen too
Posted by: Larsen101 | November 05, 2008 at 05:54 AM
does
greene to the tigers for marcus thames make any sense. i think it would be fair
Posted by: sean | November 06, 2008 at 05:08 PM
Who does Theo Epstein think he is? He's STILL overvaluing Crisp.
Crisp is worth an okay reliever. As long as Epstein keeps trying to catch somebody with their pants down, Coco Crisp will be playing for the Red Sox.
Posted by: tsizzle | November 06, 2008 at 05:09 PM
Haha, a bunch of Dynasty's comments got deleted.
Like the one about Epstein "not settling for second rate talent."
Julio Lugo anyone? How about Crisp himself? Aside from a 6-week span this season, J.D. Drew has been nothing BUT "second rate." Oh, I guess he's been something else too. Overpaid. Mike Timlin, David Aardsma... how 'bout Eric Gagne in 2007?
Good thing Theo doesn't settle for any second-rate talent.
Silly me, I forgot the Red Sox were infallible.
...Unless they're playing Tampa Bay apparently.
Posted by: MorneauVP | November 06, 2008 at 07:09 PM
You wear that bias quite well there MorneauVP. Tell me, where were the Twins this year?
I'm pretty sure the Red Sox front office and ownership would gladly trade a few bad contracts for 2 WS titles every time. And to call Mike Timlin and David Aardsma's contracts bad simply because of one off year is pretty idiotic when Aardsma performed quite well this year before the injury and very well the previous year, while Timlin was a rock in that bullpen for many years.
As for Crisp's overvalue, obviously he alone won't net anything of much value, but he is much more valuable as part of a package for a catcher, etc.
Posted by: Colin | November 06, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Yeah, those Twins sure didn't make any noise whatsoever. Too bad they couldn't have been in contention or anything.
All I was doing was pointing out the flawed logic in one of Dynasty's posts, but it was deleted, so I can't really reference it now.
The only real "bias" in the argument was Dynasty saying "Unlike your GM MorneauVP, ours doesn't settle for SECOND-RATE TALENT."
That's the kind of elitist east-coast crap that gives the intelligent Red Sox fans (which I have no reason to believe you're not a part of, Colin) a bad name.
My point was that Epstein's had his own share of second-rate talent and bad contracts.
I agree that Crisp at $5.75MM isn't bad at all, but it's also not going to land a Rangers catcher, which is probably how things are taking shape in Dynasty's perfect world.
Posted by: MorneauVP | November 06, 2008 at 11:13 PM
MorneauVP- Just ignore Dynasty.
It's the best thing you can do, for the sake of sanity.
Posted by: melonis rex | November 06, 2008 at 11:25 PM
What would the likelihood be of the Reds taking a good risk on a guy like Crede, who when healthy can fill that right handed vet power hitting void they lack. Encarnacion is probably at max value and could be had in my opinion.
Posted by: Stegs | November 07, 2008 at 09:21 AM