A.J. Burnett Rumors: Thursday

Yankee haters of the world...save your breath. As a lifelong Orioles fan, I despise the Bombers with every breath in my body and will not rest until I have beaten the holy crap out of Jeffrey Mayer. I am one of you. That said, what are the Yankees really doing wrong? They enjoy the largest metropolitan market in America and take advantage of the rewards. Furthermore, it stands to reason that this winter is something of an exception. Sure, they'll sign one or two high profile free agents in most any year, but with so much money coming off the books, the stars aligned for them to go nuts this particular off-season...which just so happens to be arguably the most talent-laden in recent memory. What are you gonna do? It sucks, but they aren't breaking any rules or doing anything ANY other club wouldn't do under the same circumstances.

Like me, you may wonder how in God's name the Yankees got where they did, financially speaking. Having lived a significant portion of my life in NYC, I know full well how few of its denizens are actually...y'know...FROM THE F'ING CITY, but sadly, between the nation's infatuation with the city (deserved, IMO) and with so-called 'winners' (boring, IMO), I suppose they've become the fallback position for any d-bag who dreams of NY, moves to NY, lives in NY, knows somebody/has family in NY, or just can't decide who else to root for. Everyone's got a story and they're all BS, but I suppose you can't begrudge them their affinities. Aw, hell...screw it...yes you can! They're all sheep! How is it even fun to root for a team that simply buys a bunch of mercenaries, throws them into matching uniforms, and tosses them out onto the field, calling them a 'team'? How can you claim you 'live and die' with a team that calls a third place finish and a record 20 games over .500 (or whatever) a 'down' season? It's ridiculous. But that's a gripe with the fans.

If there's such a thing as karma, Sabathia's fat ass will tear every friggin' ligament in his arm midway through the first inning of his first game. Not that I wish ill will on anybody, much less a guy as seemingly kind and civic-minded as Sabathia, but he can dry his tears on some of that $170 million. Burnett too. Perhaps if Yanks fans had to endure a REAL losing stretch- and don't give me any crap about the '80's since most of the fans here don't even remember that rather short stretch of futility and since it was over 20 years ago now- we might sort out the 'real' fans from the frauds. Until then, I'll I've got is sour grapes.

But hey...don't say the Yankees are doing anything wrong or are, in some way, bad for baseball. After all, every story needs a villain.

BTW- if you are a Yankee-hater, please learn to spell and/or use proper grammar. No one wants to join ideological forces with someone who doesn't know the difference between 'by' and 'buy'. C'mon!!! Oh...and sorry for the length of the post, but I had to vent.

GeneseoMC20,

One question for you since you seem so smart. How come the Yankees are using that "surplus" to pay for their own stadium??? You have to have a stadium first if you want to have ever Free Agent player playing for you. "If you build it, they will come." The Yankees have their priorities all out of wack. If I was a New York citizen and the city was paying for that stadium, I'd revolt.

Explain to me what is wrong with the Yankees identifying their weakness and knowing they have the resources to fix that weakness, actually go out and do it.

Posted by: GeneseoMC20 | December 11, 2008 at 10:44 AM

nothing wrong with it, thats what u need to do to succeed in sports.

tomfromsd, what is it you want MLB to do to level the playing feild?

Posted by: GeneseoMC20 | December 11, 2008 at 10:04 AM

There won't be a cap so that's just a waste of time to talk about. Fehr as long as he's alive will never allow that.

What they need to do is update the revenue sharing plan more frequently to take advantage of the extra revenue streams including merchandising of all clubs ot even out the playing field. They can't touch YES' revenues outside of the sport (tv rights etc) but they should at least do this.

Oh and the idea that the Yankees got a stadium so they stop paying revenue sharing is ridiculous. The lowest market teams are now going to get nothing from the Yankees this year and that with the economy could cripple some clubs.(THAT SHOULD BE PAYING MORE, i'm talking to you Mr Pohlad)

The problem with the Yankees spending $200M a year, not that I blame the Yanks, is that it destroys the playing field. During this recession, you'll start to see some of the small market teams buckle and fold. Retraction is bad for the game. As is having a team's infield making more then another teams entire roster. I know my Blue Jays will never ever be a serious contender, it's a fact, they might get lucky for a couple years then the guys will be too expensive to afford. Why should I support a system that is unwilling to level itself out? I encourage a cap by not giving the MLB a nickel of my money.

Milehigh..

I have to say, that was very well said, with the exception of wishing injuries on a player. I hate the Red Sox with a passion, but would never wish an injury on a player.

I was one of the few fans sitting in the stands in the 80's. I know losing..I remember Ed Whitson, Alvaro Espinoza, Wayne Tollison. I remember the days of signing guys like Jesse Barfield well after his prime.
I went to as many games then as I do now. The bandwagon fans piss me off more than they piss you off because tickets I used to be able to get with no problem are now grabbed by the corporate suits and the band wagon fans.

BTW- if you are a Yankee-hater, please learn to spell and/or use proper grammar. No one wants to join ideological forces with someone who doesn't know the difference between 'by' and 'buy'. C'mon!!! Oh...and sorry for the length of the post, but I had to vent.

The same could be said about some yankee lovers in this very thread.

how about MLB says you can only sign with a team if you were born in that city.. so we don't have to hear "waahh the Yanks this, that and the other thing".. get over it.. if your franchise actually put money back into the team, you all wouldn't be complaining.

Tomfromsd,

"The guy has done a good job overall, and I said numerous times Towers should be judged when the deal is done."

Fine. Towers should quit making comments and speaking so freely about Peavy trade thoughts in public. He has made himself look bad.

"As far as including Jurrjens or Hanson, that should have been the starting point of any deal IMO. Neither of them are the pitcher Peavy is, and most likely never will be (Hanson projects as a 3, maybe a 2, and that's IF he pans out. Jurrjens has shown potential, but Cy Young potential? Debatable. Peavy has already won a Cy Young, 2 K titles and 2 ERA titles)."

Your points are valid. However, talent alone does not facilitate the trade. Why is Peavy being shopped? Yeah, because the Padres are clearing payroll. Everyone knows about the owner's bitter divorce. Peavy is not being shopped on talent alone. The Padres are trying to get the best deal they can get and reduce payroll. However, it will not be equal to Peavy's talent because of the situation. Teams will take advantage of that situation. Just like Towers would do if the situation was reversed. Capitalism is a beast! Throw out your comparisons. They apply to a point, but no one will pay full price. Why should they. The Braves have not and the Cubs will not. Even if the Cubs or whomever deal for Peavy, it will not be equal talent. That is just reality.

Hahahaha....

All of the MLB socialists are out today.
You can be as upset as you want to be brewers fans, but CC's not walking through that door and the braves ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE; broke. (well next to the yankees money at least)
Hahahahaha...

Steinbrenners, John Henry, Arte Moreno, and Fred/Jeff Wilpon are the only owners who really give 2 shits about putting a good product on the field IMO..

definitly not Billionare Ted for one

As a Braves fan, I must admit that its pretty ridiculous for us to complain about NYC picking up the tab for part of their stadium when the city of Atlanta picked up the entire tab for Turner Field (which was originally the track and field venue for the Olympics so they had to build it anyway, but still) in return for a lease of only 500,000 a year and 1.5 million in capital improvements to the stadium.

Ted Turner hasn't owned the Braves for something like a decade now...Time Warner owned them for awhile and recently sold them to Liberty Media.

Hey, BraveNewWorld. Are you out there??? Have anything in response to that?

Posted by: GeneseoMC20 | December 11, 2008 at 11:22 AM

For someone who goes to Columbia thought they would be a bit more mature than that....

Babe..Im in total agreement, but for what he is asking, i would hope Sheets would be better than Ponson.

The Braves would be doing us a favor if they did get Burnett, & the Phillies too if they want Lowe so bad. Even if they did well & not get injured, we don't care. The only chance they get to pitch against us is inter league play & the World series, if we do get there.

atheleticsNbraves,

The immature thing to do in this situation would be to just quit the board without acknowledging the fact that the person you were debating with actually made a good point.

I really just want to continue the discussion but if he's not here then I’m just going to go back to studying for my finals.

i agree with the sheet for 2 or 3 years over burnett. The only thing we dont know is something that maybe the yankees do know. They have seen his medical records. Maybe they arent enamored with how healthy he is or will be. who knows.
The fact is i think the majority of the yankess fans here like the idea of sheets rather than AJ.

I assume if the Braves miss out on Sheets and Burnett they'll turn their attention to guys like Oliver Perez or maybe Randy Wolf in the free agent market while also seeing what's available on the trade market. Honestly, at that point, I wouldn't mind the Braves deciding to just save their money and pick up a guy like Marquis for a year to take pressure off the young pitchers to eat innings.

If the Yankees lose out on Sheets, I'd rather go after Jon Garland than Burnett or Lowe

at 26M for 2 years for Sheets, that would be a Bargain & with little consequence for the Yanks. I'd Sign Sheets over Lowe & Burnett if given the chance

Posted by: theBabe666 | December 11, 2008 at 11:33 AM

I agree, I say sign Sheets to a 2 year deal and Pettitte to a 1 year deal

DEFINITLY AVOID DEREK LOWE....Burnett, ehhh....5 years is definitly too much

nixa37,
Thanks. That will probably be their best bet. I would like to see them get Sheets for maybe 2 yrs, even given his medical history he is still very good when healthy. And if the Yanks get Burnett it seems very possible.

"Fine. Towers should quit making comments and speaking so freely about Peavy trade thoughts in public. He has made himself look bad."

Towers has always been a very transparent GM. That hasn't stopped him from making great deals in the past. I don't know how talking to the media makes him look bad. People should judge him on achievements and results, it's a lot fairer than perception or subjective opinions.

You don't like his style. That's fine. But he's one of the most well-liked and respected GM's around.

"Your points are valid. However, talent alone does not facilitate the trade. Why is Peavy being shopped? Yeah, because the Padres are clearing payroll. Everyone knows about the owner's bitter divorce. Peavy is not being shopped on talent alone. The Padres are trying to get the best deal they can get and reduce payroll. However, it will not be equal to Peavy's talent because of the situation. Teams will take advantage of that situation. Just like Towers would do if the situation was reversed. Capitalism is a beast! Throw out your comparisons. They apply to a point, but no one will pay full price. Why should they. The Braves have not and the Cubs will not. Even if the Cubs or whomever deal for Peavy, it will not be equal talent. That is just reality."

Clearly this has an impact. However, this is also clearly offset if Towers can create a bidding war for Peavy (and the demand sure seems to have warmed up some). Since you seem high on economics theories, rule one is that when demand is bigger than supply, the price goes up. Surely you can see that Towers' only goal is to create demand.

If they needed the money bad and they had no alternative, they would have sent Peavy to Atlanta. But they do have alternatives. Towers isn't going to take a deal he doesn't like that early in the offseason when he knows there's still time and teams he hasn't talked to.

I completely disagree with you that there isn't a deal out there that will match Peavy's talent. Towers may need to revisit Peavy about his preferred destinations (the outlook of staying on a bad team should be motivating enough for a competitive guy like Peavy to expand his list...), but he can still get more people involved.

I alsobelieve that the Padres can still hang on to him as well, now that they've cleared Greene's salary. As it is, they've already saved millions with Hoffman, Greene, Maddux and others leaving. It makes sense to trade Peavy but if they don't like the deal, they don't have to do it. And I don't think Towers would.

Who are the Cubs giving up that's on the same level as Hanson or Jurrjens? Vitters might be close to Hanson ranking wise on some lists, but the Padres would clearly prefer a SP less than a year away to a 3B that's at least 2-3 years out. Jurrjens is just on a different level completely than anything that's even been mentioned in the Cubs deal. Its not that the Braves weren't willing to give up those guys because they weren't just one piece away. They weren't willing to give up those guys because only the biggest win now teams would consider moving Hanson and I can't imagine any team in the league would move JJ. We've seen how the markets developed and at no time has anyone nearly that good ever entered into the discussion.

Someone posted interesting number online

Not sure if he is accurate or not

Burnett in 2008
4.05 ERA, 1.34WHIP

Take away his 2008 games against the Yankees
4.85 ERA and 1.45 WHIP

Bravesdawgs...
Right, there is NOTHING to do in NYC.
I wont even comment on anything else, your post many be the dumbest ever.

The Blue Jays wouldn't get the Yanks 1st round pick because the CC is ranked higher than Burnett and the Brewers therefore have dibs on that pick.

tomfromsd,

Has your opinion changed at all now that the Cubs have supposedly pulled out of the Peavy sweepstakes? Towers may not be completely screwed, but he's not exactly in a good place right now...

Bravesdawgs...
Right, there is NOTHING to do in NYC.
I wont even comment on anything else, your post many be the dumbest ever.

Posted by: yankeegirl49 | December 11, 2008 at 12:00 PM

^ i believe you took his post out of context, nothing in there says that there isnt anything to do in NYC... was just mentioning the positive things ATL has to offer.

I assume if the Braves miss out on Sheets and Burnett they'll turn their attention to guys like Oliver Perez or maybe Randy Wolf in the free agent market while also seeing what's available on the trade market. Honestly, at that point, I wouldn't mind the Braves deciding to just save their money and pick up a guy like Marquis for a year to take pressure off the young pitchers to eat innings.

Posted by: nixa37 | December 11, 2008 at 11:40 AM

^ Oliver perez is a boras client, i would steer clear of him plus boras is askin alot for him client.

Athletics...

What context am I supposed to take THIS in?
Never mind that he suggested he knows what every person in NY and Atlanta looks like.

"The Yankees and Red Sox sell out every game because it's all they've got up there. Northeastern life is freezing your ass off for half a year and then cheering for your team the other half."

Oh, I guess you were talking about Carrasco maybe...that was a just an internet rumor. We don't actually know if the Phillies were ever considering trading Carrasco for DeRosa (I seriously doubt they were), so to act like he was clearly available is just insane.

"to act like he was clearly available is just insane."

Forgive me for believing guys that do this for a living over you...

Alright nixa,

it was good discussing this with you. We don't agree on some stuff, but talking baseball is always fun. I gotta go. I'll read up on your comments later.

Ken..trust me, talk to Yankee fans, Cashman gets ripped to no end. Most Yankee fans know that the championship teams of the 90's were not put together by him. We are STILL waiting for him to make a good move. When the best moves the guy made was getting Nady and Marte and ridding us of Worthless for Pudge, he gets ripped regularly. In fact, most Yankee fans felt he should have been the one to go rather than Torre.

But in reference to what you said, I see it just the opposite and maybe thats cause Im on the opposite side. If the Braves ger Burnett for 5 years it would be awesome, if the Yankees get him for the same its another bad contract. (Which IMO it most defintely is)

There's no actual evidence that Philly would have dealt Carrasco for DeRosa (I doubt they would; Happ always made the most sense), so saying acting as if he was available doesn't actually prove the Padres ever had a shot at him. I asked you far a piece in the Cubs deal that was nearly as valuable as JJ or Hanson and all you could do was name a guy that it was rumored you might be able to get from another team as part of a 3 team swap in the Padres dream scenario...that should tell you something.

Secondly, what are you basing your claim that Carrasco is a higher ranked prospect than Hanson on? The newest top 50 list on MiLB.com has Hanson ahead of Carrasco (though only by 4 spots) and Sickels ranks Hanson as a B+ and Carrasco as a B. Please link to a recent source (i.e. since the end of 2008) that has Hanson listed behind Carrasco.

That's of course leaving aside that Carrasco is still obviously far, far less valuable than JJ is. Jurrjens ERA was significantly lower in MLB than Carrasco's was in AA and he's only 1 year older.

yankeegirl49

I can understand how people in NY would jump all over Cashman, but national media do not.

I can't understand how he still has a job, the 90's teams were build from the minor leagues, and so are todays Red Sox teams. Unless ownership is more concerned with looking like they're the best, rather than being the best.

It happens over and over again in all pro sports. The best teams are built through the draft. Cashman is a damn fool.

There you go, Tom. Peavy deal to Cubs dead.

yankeegirl49-

You're right. I don't actually hope Sabathia gets hurt and I shouldn't have said as much. He seems like a genuinely good guy on top of which, I don't want ANYONE- ballplayer or 'Regular Joe'- to injure themselves. I just get SOOOO tired of this crap...and I know all my Yankee-lovin' friends are going to take immense pleasure in watching me blow my top this year as CC blanks my O's. It's just...the inequities inherent to the sport grow wearisome when you're always on the short end of the stick. And blaming the organization is akin to blaming capitalism...which I think most would agree, has worked out pretty well for this nation, by and large. You can't really fault the players either- who among us is going to turn down that kind of money? Consider: if you've got job offers for essentially the same position at two different companies, but one pays 20% more than the other, you're almost certainly going to take the job that offers the better pay. It's a simplistic analogy and an imperfect one, but I think it expresses my point clearly enough.

So what's that leave? The fans! It certainly doesn't help that so many seem to be boorish tools, but there's more to it (and there are plenty of very nice NY fans). Yankee fans strike me- fair or not- as people who'd root for Goliath over David; people more interested in the destination- victory- than the journey; the drama and excitement of the sport, all but extinguished by the virtual assurance of an annual postseason berth. Not only is it unfair...it doesn't even seem fun to me. How does one find satisfaction in a hunt without a chase? It's like watching a movie after you've seen the ending. And how ironic it is that the team that benefits most from baseball's lack of a level playing field- and the fans who so staunchly support not only that team, but the team's enormous advantage- hails from New York City; arguably the most 'liberal' metropolis- politically and socially- in the nation and a city that is otherwise so mindful of the virtues of equality (and how ironic it is that someone who has been called a NY liberal more times than he can count, is the one pointing this out)!

It's one thing for someone- a neighbor for instance- to be filthy rich; it's another thing altogether to have an ostentatious show of said wealth shoved down your throat and smacked across your face. You can forgive some opposing fans for feeling that way when the Yankees skirt revenue-sharing rules by exploiting a loophole intended to protect smaller market clubs in need of new stadiums, then turning around and using that money to outbid everyone for the services of some of those teams' best players (never mind what it does to the market as a whole- an added f-you). No one (at least no one with half a brain) is arguing ethics or claiming the Yankees haven't the right to do what they please with their money...

...they just hate their friggin' guts for doing it and for doing it over and over and over again.

Milehigh..

Again, I actually agree with you. When put the way you put it, most fans, even Yankee fans would. You are 100% right, I expect at least a playoff berth every single year and I really don't care how much they spend to get it. I know that when I spend my money on tickets I am always going to see a quality product put on the field. Even last season, when the playoffs were out of reach, I still enjoyed the games because there was a quality product on the field.
I agree it is not fair to the fans of the other teams, my only point was that the Yankees and their fans are not the cause of the world's problems. Every tea, has obnoxious fans, NY fans are just more outspoken because a good portion are from NY, where we are outspoken about everything. Then you have the people who tear down the Yanks and their fans no matter what they do and we feel the need to fire back. Its part of being a "fanatic". I like nothing more than good baseball conversation with other fans, no matter what team they root for, but most of the time all I get is stuff ripping the Yanks, ripping NY and ripping me for being from NY. I get that, you can bet Im going to shoot right back. There was a thread a few weeks ag where someone actually came right out and said it was the Yankees fault the world economy is what it is right now. Not the baseball economy, but the WORLD. Come on now...
I do thank you for the well thought out posts. I may be on the wrong side of the argument in your eyes, but the points make sense no matter which side you are on.

Ken...I know all about which Sox players are from their system and which were trades and signings. I put that in my post.

I have said numerous times, today and yesterday in regards to CC. Having the Yanks resources allows them to sign a player for the long term to reap the short term benefits. If CC gives them a good to very good 4 or 5 years (and doesnt opt out) they would be willing to eat years 6 & 7, because they CAN. Thats why it was no big deal to give Mo and Posada 4 years. I would be willing to bet that they dont think either of them will be worth their price in year 4, maybe not even year 3, but to them its worth it for years 1 & 2. Again, may upset the balance of baseball, but thats the way it is and will be until the union and MLB come together on a cap or a new revenue sharing policy...and given what I know about unions, which is a lot, I owuldnt hold my breath.

Yankeesgirl49-

You're making it very difficult for me to hate Yankees fans right now. Please stop (LOL). Seriously, though...thanks for the nice comments and for your own well conceived and conveyed points. I hate to admit it, but you're probably right...the world economy is probably NOT the fault of the New York Yankees (I don't think their evil influence extends beyond our shores). Oh, and the stuff about the quality product and fans may have some validity as well- though I'll deny I said so if I'm ever called to testify. Keep on fighting the good fight...even if it's for the 'wrong' team. Someone as seemingly intelligent as you is bound to come to her senses one of these days! LOL

Milehigh...thanks, but dont hold your breath. For 35+ years people have tried to get me over to the "good guys"and away from the "evil empire", hasnt worked yet!

Ken...I didnt mean to insinuate that you read all my posts, just stating it so people reading know why I am repeating myself.

haha, milehigh, you have easily posted the most amusing post of the day. Your insight is like that of a holy man. I'm now going to go re-evaluate myself as a person.

"You're a child and an insecure one at that. Honestly, who goes around telling people they're smart?"

You can't just start making comment like that when you have no clue what’s going on and were not involved in the debate, but it’s ok because I’m going to fill you in anyways:

Posted By: BravesNewWorld

" GeneseoMC20,

One question for you since you seem so smart. How come the Yankees are using that "surplus" to pay for their own stadium??? "

That’s why I said what I said.
As for humility you are right. I’ve been a bit of arrogant on this board and I’m sorry for that.

Oh and btw milehigh, I just finished reading the rest of your post and I have to agree with nixa, after that last part of your comment you're in no place to judge.

It wasn't even the BCS that screwed this one up. Every other conference that has a title game would have had Texas winning the tiebreaker over OU.

I happen to think Cashman is a great GM A large number of the bad deals were Steinbrenner-influenced or directed deals. No GM is perfect, but Cash has done an excellent job and the farm system being rebuilt is from his directive.

The Yankees teams of the 90's had a nice core group of homegrown talent, but they also added a ton of FA's. The Red Sox teams that won had a lot more talent from FA and trades than people her are bringing up. They would like to have you believe that Manny, Ortiz, Schilling, Wakefield, Lugo, Lowell, Becket, Crisp, Drew, Timlin, Dice-K, Youklis and a bunch of other players were all drafted by the Red Sox and toiled away in the minors for them before being called up.

Come on now, let's not change history. Both clubs had a mix of homegrown and acquired talent and large payrolls.

Enough romanticizing either of these teams' love of their own players.

Bravesdawgs...please just stop. Do you even realize how dumb you sound arguing this point?

I don’t think its a point to be argued. But it should be addressed.

He's just sticking up for his people. Nothing wrong with that.
Again though, we've come full circle with the derogatory insults like “a self-important blowhard of a blue state city like New York” It just takes away from your trying to say.

BravesDawg, Dude, stop trying to defend your post. it makes you look even more stupider than you really are. Guess we can all conclude why your Daddy moved south. He didn't want them Loud New Yorkers to find out that you were a product of inbreeding, because things like that are frowned upon here in this Blowhard Blue state of Ours.