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Jake Peavy Rumors: Monday

8:42pm: Towers gave Tom Krasovic a Peavy update.  Towers believes that the Braves' unwillingness to grant Peavy a no-trade clause remains on obstacle in that potential match.  Plus, a Krasovic source wonders whether Peavy would even OK a trade to Atlanta.

Krasovic adds that the Cubs and Padres discussed a 5-for-1 deal, where the Orioles would be involved to route more pitching to San Diego.  However, Towers noted the Cubs' current payroll concerns.

10:35am: Murray Chass snagged a good quote from Padres GM Kevin Towers regarding the Jake Peavy trade talks:

"I would say the Cubs are still in it.  Lou said they’re not in it, but their general manager says they’re in it. The Dodgers have bigger fish to fry. That’s not to say they might not circle back later in the winter. Our primary goal is to trade Peavy."

One Cubs source spoke of a "two-year window to win," according to Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune.  Chass quotes Towers as seeking established players back for Peavy, which is why the Cubs would need to get a third team involved.  Van Dyck says the Cubs hope to hang on to Mike Fontenot and Sean Marshall.


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Comments

Someone please explain to me how the Cubs acquire Peavy without having to give up Fontenot and Marshall.....while also still involving a third team because they don't have enough.

Peavy is a Brave as soon as Frank Wren decides to pick up his phone.

I'm glad the Cubs aren't giving in. If the Braves really wanted him, he would be a Brave by now. They are staying away, for some reason. The Cubs should hold their ground. Clearly the market is smaller than the Padres thought, and at this point, they have to move him, after all the comments. If you move Marshall and/or Fontenot, how many wins would Peavy actually give you? Fontenot was huge this year. And Marshall is key to the pen and as a swingman.

I too am intrigued as to how the Cubs are so projected to land Peavy at this point. One of the main guys I figured would be in the deal ended up going to Florida.

Unless Baltimore really touts Cedeno, Pie and Marshall, I don't see this 3-way being done unless San Diego is really stuck.

If you have to move Marshall and Fontenot to get Peavy...why wouldn't you? Honestly, if there is ANY way to get Peavy and not include Vitters...(Pie to the O's for Pitching)...you do it. It doesn't seem like a huge return...but for some reason the Pads apparently want established players, rather than just prospects.

"Cubs still in on Peavy"

Same old, same old. Nothing new here. Of course Towers says they (the Cubs) are atill in the Peavy hunt; he wants leverage from whatever team he is trying to take from the cleaners right now for the better-than-average-injury-risk and park-inflated-stats pitcher.

As of this moment the Braves are not going to get Peavy. I say that because they pulled out of the talks leaving an offer on the table. They are not going to up their offer and the whole reaosn for this third team is so that the Cubs offer is better, ACCORDING TO THE GMS, than the Braves offer. Yes, the original Cubs offer not involving a third team for the Cubs was not as good as the Braves's, but now that there is a third team, KT might be considering the Cubs offer along with Olson to be more valuable than the one with the Braves. I guess theres more upside or at least KT thinks so.

Also, on a side note, there were 2 things that I was thinking about that no one has mentioned yet with this whole speculation that the Orioles are the third team is that everyone always said that the reason for the third team would be to flip them Vitters and get the SP that towers wants. But the whole rumor now is that the Orioles are mainly interested in Pie. Now, maybe it is supposed to be a given that its going to be Pie AND Vitters, but I have not seen anywhere that this is being said. Also, I have not seen anywhere, besides blogger comments, that Vitters would be flipped to the Padres in the whole package. Secondly, the KT wants a CF to hold over until their guy is ready. Has anyone considered that if the Cubs do trade Pie to the Orioles for Olson, that the CF going to the Padres might be Sam Fuld? I mean, there was a ton of hype about him in Cubdom a couple years ago, not so much last year, but he might be the temporary solution for the Padres in CF.

No. This dance will take a while.

The market is not set yet. There's too many Free Agent options still available. Once the options for pitchers narrows, esp. C.C., Towers will be left holding the high hand. He would be smart to hold onto Peavy until after all of the major pitching Agents have signed.

The Angels are going to swoop in and trade for him as soon as they decide who they are going to sign (Between Texiera and Sabathia).

I wish that the teams involved would just shut up until a deal is actually worked out and there's something of substance to report.

This whole situation feels like the longest case of blue balls ever.

Fuld's worth is about as much as my shoe in this trade.

I am wondering if Towers now would like to keep Vitters for himself along with Marshall and Fontenot/Cedeno, and get Olson from the O's in exchange for the Cubs getting Pie.

The Fontenot-Marshall thing is more of a reference to the Teahen rumors than the Peavy deal. Obviously, either of those two aren't holding up a Peavy deal. I think it was just brought up because of the ridiculous rumors that either of them would be traded for Teahen to be the new Cubs starting RF.

Can they just the guy already? Damn. Samething every day.

Do not take your eyes off of the Astros on this. The talks with Wolf has slowed down. The reason being salary concerns, but there is more to it than that. It could be because they are emerging as a dark horse in the Peavy sweepstakes.

Yea, I know that a lot think that Fuld is just nothing. But who knows what Towers thinks of him. Also, there is NO WAY Hendry is going to let Fontenot and/or Marshall not let this get done. There is no GM in baseball that would value Fontenot and/or Marshall more than 4 years of Peavy. (and lol @ BK, I was wondering how long it would be before an Angels or Dodgers fan would come in and propose/make a case for why their team is going to get Peavy)

But is Vitters, Marshall, Fontenot/Cedeno, and Olson enough to get the deal done? Maybe its just the Braves fan in me, but that deal seems worse than the reported Escobar, Hernandez, Morton, and Boyer offer which KT obviously felt wasn't enough value in return.

It would be a coup if the Cubs are able to land Peavy and not have to give up Marshall and Fontenot. Both are lefties and both are needed on the team, Fontenot for his bat and Marshall for his versatility. Funny how those guys can be so valuable to a team that's got the potential to win 100-games, yet when it's time to talk about trading them everyone considers them trash. Fact is they're both relatively young and inexpensive and both are pretty good at what they do. I hope the Cubs keep them and still acquire Peavy.

sharx,

If Towers thinks enough of Fuld to take him as any sort of part of a Peavy deal, he should be fired on the spot. You're talking about a guy who at age 26 repeated AA and couldn't even crack .750 with his OPS. Fuld is nothing more than an organizational player with little chance of ever making the majors, let alone making an impact if given the chance.

Any chance the Braves did another review of Peavy's medical records and decided he's too much a risk to offer more talent?

Tim,

Is there a way you guys can just stop posting about how "the Cubs are still in on Peavy" until a trade actually goes down? How many days do we need to hear that the Cubs are trying to give up less and less to the Padres/ Orioles/ Hanshin Tigers? I'm all for reading new rumors every day, but this isn't new. And the fact that it shows up so often, coupled with the ridiculous comments from Cubs fans who are acting more and more like Yankee fans in their "proposed trades" ruins the allure of this site.
Reading about how Dye might get traded to the Reds, or hearing that Towers is doing everything in his power to get equal value for Peavy is awesome. But reading the exact same comments for the 45th day in a row blands out the site. Please stop posting "Peavy to the Cubs" rumors until the deal actually happens. This is just ridiculous how many threads there are that say the exact same thing.

DodgersBruin, with the free agent market unexpectedly slow this year the Peavy to the Cubs rumors are the hottest rumors flying around. I know what you mean about a seeing the Cubs in on Peavy over and over, but this is a rumors site and the Peavy to Cubs rumors are the biggest thing out there right now. Tim would not be doing his job if he did not keep posting the "new' but old rumors about Peavy. That is just the market right now.

Kenny Dewitt

Myself, I will sit back and see how this plays out. The rumors have been long and seemingly forever, but today is the arbitration deadline and next week the winter meetings. It's early yet.

Today is also the deadline for Cub bidders. Hopefully that saga becomes clearer soon.

I doubt it MPM, the Padres got an insurance policy with the Peavy deal, meaning if he were to get injured they would get his salary back. And insurance companies dont insure players they know are getting injured. So I doubt there is anything telling in his medical reports, since the insurance medical/physical would be available to them, and he apparently passed.

DodgersBruin,

You should disable the feature in your browser that requires you to read every post Tim puts up along with the corresponding comments.

Once you do that it will be possible to scan the headline and determine if the one or two paragraphs are worth your time to read.

kevin towers is making heidi montag look like jd salinger

Kenny Dewitt,

What's the "new" rumor. For a month the talk was the Cubs and Braves. Then the Braves dropped out. Multiple days of threads said, "Cubs trying to acquire Peavy". Same exact statement made every day. Then, finally, a NEW rumor said, "Cubs looking for third team". Since then, multiple threads on multiple days that say "Cubs looking for third team". Where's the "new" rumor???

DodgersBruin,
Here is an idea:

When you see a rumor titled "Cubs still in on Peavy", skip it and move on to the next one.

"It would be a coup if the Cubs are able to land Peavy and not have to give up Marshall and Fontenot. Both are lefties and both are needed on the team, Fontenot for his bat and Marshall for his versatility. Funny how those guys can be so valuable to a team that's got the potential to win 100-games, yet when it's time to talk about trading them everyone considers them trash. Fact is they're both relatively young and inexpensive and both are pretty good at what they do. I hope the Cubs keep them and still acquire Peavy."

Not really young. Font will be playing at age 29 and Marshall 27. Id say they are at their peak as far as performance goes.

All, please quit talking about Fuld. Noone would want him, hes not a prospect or a trade peice.

Get a life DodgersBruin. If the topic doesn't interest you, there are many others to choose from.

Dodgers,
Tim is reporting info on potential trades. Hence the site being called "mlb trade rumors"
Just get used to the Peavy threads until a trade happens, its a pretty big topic when a cy young award winner is rumored to be traded.

Maybe I'm mis-reading sharx's post, but if it's a question of one or the other, I'm certain the O's would take Vitters over Pie; it's a no-brainer. It would seem to me that Olson wouldn't be enough to get Vitters and that the Pads would need Vitters AS WELL AS Olson to get Peavy. That said, as an O's fan, I'd certainly welcome a Vitters/Olson trade; Pie/Olson...not so much. I know Pie's talented and it's not like Olson's some future superstar, but I'm simply not a Pie believer anymore. He's still young and I'll readily admit, I could be wrong, but he just seems a little too Cory Patterson for my taste. Prospects in places like Chicago (and New York) sometimes get overrated and in Pie's case, he's also been jerked around by the organization so many times, it HAS to have had some kind of effect on his confidence. In truth, Baltimore would probably be the ideal place for him...since here he could, potentially, get the Nick Markakis/Adam Jones treatment: no pressure, lots of playing time, plenty of patience, blossom on your own timetable. Still, I personally think Olson has excellent potential himself (as, apparently, does Kevin Towers). Sure, he struggled mightily at times during his rookie season, but considering the circumstances and his past performance, I'm optimistic about the future. He's a lefty, for one, on top of which, he's got a pretty nice mix of pitches- particularly the secondaries- and, contrary to what we saw last year, very good command. I could easily see him developing into an above average middle-of-the-rotation guy, as soon as next season. In particular, I think we'll see Olson's command improve now that he's got a year under his belt and shaken some of the nerves that all rookies feel. I think they affected Olson a little more than most, being a very cerebral pitcher; he over-thought everything last year and got away from just...pitching. And he knew it! That will change. Looking at his numbers at every stop over the course of his rise, one might expect some very strong seasons ahead; I'm especially interested in his high K rates, and K/BB ratios, which are somewhat surprising given his lack of a truly dominant- though solid- fastball. While I can't be sure he'll replicate them, I think a fair facsimile could be in the cards, which would make Olson a very valuable piece of the puzzle that is the Orioles' rotation. This promise, is, in my opinion, worth more than whatever potential Pie represents. Furthermore, with Nolan Reimold and his considerable upside within spitting distance of the bigs (to say nothing of the surprisingly impressive Lou Montanez), I don't understand why the Birds would even be in on Pie!!!

Vitters is another issue altogether, as Bill Rowell's progress has stalled and the club lacks any other strong in-house candidates for the third base job. Furthermore, Vitters' upside is much higher than Pie's (or Olson's) at this point. As I said, I don't think that's a viable option, as I'm sure the Cubs (rightfully) consider Vitters' value to be far greater than Olson's (though, in this case...perhaps not; it seems the Pads are more interested in Olson and that is what counts). If it's a possibility, however, the O's would have to jump on it.

Finally, I don't understand why Andy Mac doesn't just cut out the middle man and offer Olson to San Diego for, say Kyle Blanks. The Pads have Gonzalez entrenched at first (at a very reasonable salary, I believe) and just drafted Alan Dykstra, so it wouldn't seem to negatively impact the club and, on paper, it fits needs for both teams. Somebody get these guys talking!

DodgersBruin, notice the quotations around new. That was an attempt to point out that it was not actual new information being posted. Just the hottest news out there.

I will be more literal when responding to you in the future so you are not confused anymore in what I am saying. My deepest apologies that you did not catch the obvious.

Kenny Dewitt

Simple milehigh78, Blanks is our best prospect. And we believe we can find something better then Olsen for him if we decide to trade him. He will only be 22 next year, and in AAA, why trade that this year?

clarknaddison,

And I'm all for new information. But what does this provide us that wasn't told to us yesterday? Or the day before? In fact, even the posters say the same thing:

""Cubs still in on Peavy"

Same old, same old. Nothing new here."

I'm all for Peavy rumors. I'm all for Peavy to the Cubs rumors. But provide something new if you're going to start a new thread. What is the use of having multiple threads that provides the exact same information?

Jake Peavey is the new Brian Roberts.

DodgersBruin,
Here is an idea:

When you see a rumor titled "Cubs still in on Peavy", skip it and move on to the next one.

Posted by: cubz23 | December 01, 2008 at 11:49 AM

That is extremely well said. LOL.

And to milehigh78, I wasnt saying to choose between the two. I was just stating the fact that the only sources to mention the Orioles involvement as the third team only talk about how Pie would be swapped for Olson (that is except for all the garbage about Marquis being dumped in Baltimore, or the unlikelihood that Greene ends up an Oriole because of this trade). Before Wednesday night when the 'third team' rumor started, everyone was saying that it was going to be Vitters going to the third team, if they could find one, for a pitcher Towers values. Now its all about how Pie could be swapped for Olson. Im just bringing up that Vitters might not be part of the trade that gets the Padres the pitcher they want. He may not even be in the deal for that matter. who knows.

Kenny, I don't think a team can be a "dark horse" unless it has anything of value to trade. For that reason the Astros aren't an option.

I do agree with the post suggesting the Angels might get involved at some point. Just a hunch though.

Nixa, I think the possible offer of Cedeno/Fontenot, Vitters, Olson and Marshall is a little better than the Braves offer. The way I see it, Cedeno/Fontenot Hernandez, Marshall > Morton, Olson >> Boyer. Obviously Escobar is superior to either Cubs MI, but the pitching in the Cubs deal would be vastly superior to the Braves' offer. Also, that is what is reportedly most important to KT, the pitching.

Maybe if Wren jumps back in and sweetens the offer by adding Locke/Rohrborgh it will change things.

I am not sure Peavy and his salary are worth Pie, Vitters, Cedeno/Fontenot, and Marshall.

2009 salary: $11 million
2010 salary: $15 million
2011 salary: $16 million
2012 salary: $17 million

I say stand pat with the starting pitching, and bring back Wood. Put Micah Hoffpauir in RF, if you need that lefty bat in RF. He has played RF and is young enough to be that. You have a nice 3 person platoon for CF/RF with Johnson/Fukudome/Hoffpauir

Trade Cedeno and Josh Lansford to the Twins for Glen Perkins and see what you can get for Marquis. (twins want left side infielders)

Then if you need to make a move later in the year you stil have some chips.

"I would say the Cubs are still in it. Lou said they’re not in it, but their general manager says they’re in it."

I also like to say that I still have a chance at Hayden Pennietere. The restraining order says I don't, but my heart says I do.

Towers is beginning to learn the ugly truth the Twins learned last year. When you have a trade market of one team, you're not going to get what you want for your Ace.

This is all a coy by Towers to try and make the Braves shake a little and get more for Peavy. And the funny thing is the Braves don't care if they do or don't get peavy.

Indifference trumps playing hard to get every time.

Airman-

You might be right, but if Towers is so high on Olson, it seems like a good fit. Maybe the O's could add a little somethin' somethin' to the deal, but it's a good fit and Blanks is blocked. Sure, you can put him in AAA this spring, but at some point- barring injury or an Antonelli-esque setback, it won't be more than a year- Blanks will be ready (if he's not already) and SOMETHING will have to be done. Towers would be foolish to simply settle on the first pitcher to come along and maybe he can do better than Olson; all I'm saying is that- on paper- it works for both teams and the situation is currently presenting itself. Just a thought.

Should have read Cedeno/Fontenot Hernandez, Marshall > Morton, Olson >> Boyer....

For some reason my post keeps getting butchered, so I'll spell it out.

Cedeno/Fontenot is far worse than Escobar, Vitters greater than Hernandez, Marshall greater than Morton and Olson far greater than Boyer.

Apologies...

sharx- thanks. I missed the rumor of a potential Vitters-to-third-team deal. In that case, I think the O's should push hard for Vitters over Pie in any Olson-related trade.

BleacherBuddha- no chance in hell the Twins do that deal.

basicslop- "This is all a coy..." What the hell is a coy?! Did you mean to say it's all a PLOY or perhaps that Towers is PLAYING coy or...? Just curious.

DodgerBruin - Here's an idea and it may serve you well for lots of things in life. If you don't like something, don't pay attention to it, don't read it, don't watch it, don't listen to it.

Are you the guy that listens to Howard Stern, knowing it is "objectionable" material, and then complains that you heard "objectionable material".

This site is here for rumors, and updates. If a major baseball writer says "the cubs are still in", then that is what the news is, and it will most likely be reported on this site.

I guess what I am trying to say is don't be "that guy" that complains for the sake of complaining.

Are you implying the difference between Cedeno/Fontenot and Escobar is comparable to the difference between Olson and Boyer? Boyer has had far more success than Olson at the ML level, albeit as a reliever, and his peripherals outside of his HR rate are great. I'm not trying to argue that Boyer is some huge piece or anything, but neither is Olson, who was never real highly regarded as a prospect and has struggled badly in the majors. Maybe its just me, but his numbers seem a little similar to Chuck James.

Anyways, I find it interesting that you bring up Locke and Rohrbough as guys who could swing the trade to the Braves. I personally think the Braves should consider moving them to get Peavy, but when you compare a Braves offer replacing Boyer with one of those two, the Braves offer is vastly superior to what the Cubs are offering, with Escobar being far, far superior to the Cubs MI, Vitters being better than Hernandez, Marshall being slightly more valuable (service time helps make up the difference) than Morton, and Locke/Rohrbough being better than Olson. Suddenly the pitching is about equal, but the Braves are giving up Escobar and Hernandez as opposed to Cedeno/Fontenot and Vitters. The choice there seems clear unless you're almost certain Vitters will reach his projections.

Hard to see how the Cubs are going to get Peavy, even with a 3rd team. The orioles have no need for Pie, nor do the Cubs have much in the way of hot prospects anyone wants that are near quality to acquire a peavy in any way, shape or form, even with a 3rd team involved.

Unless the Braves or Dodgers all of a sudden decide to up the curent offer, peavy will be with the padres until the 7/31 non waiver trade deadline, or until Peavy takes the handcuffs off of Towers and allows him to bring teams into the mix in the AL (Angels, Boston) that actually have the type of prospects he is looking for/needs (controllable young pitching) and can at least use those teams for leverage.

DB- Here's another idea. Email Tim your suggestions. He's got his email posted on the website somewhere, find it. That way, you can moan to the guy who runs the site and not to the people who are actually participating in the conversation. And I know Tim gets in the threads once in a while, but with every other Peavy thread ending up with hundreds of posts, and Tim's job being to check on all other rumors, I don't think he's going to spend too much time in this one. However, you did succeed in derailing the the thread for a few minutes and making it all about you and your problems, so congrats on that, I guess. And by the way, a team's GM commenting directly about another team involved in trade discussions regarding a high profile player, on his team, I hate to break it to you, but that is news. Maybe not to you, but to interested parties, it is.

MileGigh, your post was a mile high. I got a nose bleed reading it.

Bleacher, who is Josh Lansford?

If the Braves don't give in, I can see Peavy staying with the Pads for at least part of this season.

"The orioles have no need for Pie,"

Tell that to their GM, who is documented as really liking him.

You may not be interested, but that doesn't mean that they aren't.

Here is the thing guys (mile,nixa etc)

You can't compare the offers because the Cubs offer is pure speculation. All we know is that the O's like Pie. We keep throwing in Fontenot/Cedeno...but thats not even known. Hell, we don't even know if Vitters would be going to the third team, or if Pie would, or if he wouldn't be going anywhere at all!

All we DO know is that Towers isn't all that impressed with the Braves offer. My thought is that it doesn't have the pitching that he wants. If the Cubs offered Olson and Marshall, I think Towers is getting more of what he wants, regardless of if you think a deal with Escobar in it is more intriguing to you.

My guess is this:

Hendry now doesn't really care all that much, but is willing to let it fall in his lap. He says to Towers, "If you can get the last piece to your puzzle using whichever of Pie/Vitters you are willing to give up, then make it happen".

The guys on the table are:

Vitters
Pie
Fontenot/Cedeno
Low level pitching prospect from Cubs

So now Towers will try and flip Pie for a pitcher that he likes from another team (Olson) and it would become a better deal to HIM, because it has much more pitching in it than the Braves offer.

Those are just my thoughts, but very little is actually known about the Cubs actual offer.

To myself,a Braves fan, and to the Cubs fans, think about this... Towers has NOTHING else to do this offseason than to trade Peavy, I MEAN NOTHING! He's dismantaling a team so this Peavy thing will drag on by his own watch! I'm comfortable with Wren getting us two qaulity starters and one being Jake Peavy...he'll get it done!!

Capt TopOff,

Nothing to trade? How about the NL best closer for LESS than $10 mill? Or a power hitting 3B that can also play the outfield? How about a solid left handed starter?

A word of caution: Petco is a strong pitcher's park. Here's his splits:

Home 1.75era .205BA 3 HRs
Away 4.28era .258BA 14 HRs (in one less start)

Plus, he's missed time due to elbow problems. His strikeouts were down and his walks up, never a good sign.
Not saying I don't want him, but just sayin'...

Two other cubs prospects that might be a lesser part of this deal IMHO:

Wellington Castillo
Jay Jackson (I think he might have to be a PTBNL)

Ive been reading rumors about the Cubs all offseason. From what I gather they need a defensive RF and they prefer a lefty bat, they want Jake Peavy, and they are willing to part with Derrek Lee. Me and my friends have been trying to come up with a 3 team trade that would benefit all parties and we came up with this.

CHC receive: Jake Peavy and Gary Matthews Jr.

LAA receives: Derrek Lee

SD receives: Josh Vitters, Felix Pie, Sean Marshall, Brandon Wood and relief prospect from LAA like Darren O'Day

What are your opinions? It won't happen but im just curious what you guys think.

I'm with DodgersBruin on this. I understand there is a HEAVY amount of Cub love on this site, but does that mean we need to hear every little fart that comes out of Towers mouth regarding the Cub interest. I mean, what's next?, reports on NOTHING happening.

TOWERS REPORTS NO NEW NEWS ON PEAVY FRONT, CUBS STILL FRONTRUNNERS

MONDAY, 7:35pm - still nothing.

i'd rather hear about Franquelis Osoria's minor league deal than that.

please note: all Dodger fans are bitter buffalo's right now because we have an owner who won't shell out for Manny Ramirez, an owner's wife who is publically wondering if fans even want the team to spend mega-bucks on free agents (duh), and a GM who is trying to trade for Jack Wilson without paying for it. Sad times right now in LaLaLand.

Saul and DodgersBruin,

Seriously...why are you posting to this thread?

Here are the facts:

The Peavy - Cubs/Braves stuff generates probably more comments than any other post.

More comments = more readers/site visits

More readers/site visits = more appeal for companies to advertise on the website

More appeal for companies to advertise = more money in Tim's pocket...and this is his full time job.

Again, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read the thread. I'm not really sure what there is to complain about.

Don't want anything to do with Gary Matthews. He's a 4th OFer with a hall-of-fame contract. No thanks. And no, the Cubs are looking for an offensive-minded right fielder, not that defense isn't important, but they will sacrifice defense to get a strong lefty hitter. It has to be a lefty, too.

Aduncaroo,

Did you mean to have Marshall on the table for the Peavy deal, because according to what you have right now the Padres would have to be willing to settle for a low level pitching prospect and whatever prospect they could get for Pie or Vitters. Olson and a low level pitching prospect from the Cubs doesn't seem like a lot more pitching than a Braves package of Morton and Boyer.

Anyways, I agree that comparing the offers doesn't mean all that much, because they likely offer different things, but I think its interesting to discuss the merits and relative values of different packages. The point I was trying to make with the Braves offer compared to the Cubs offer being bandied about right now is that the Braves offer seems to have more, or at worst equivalent, "value" even if it doesn't match KT's desire for pitching (though he clearly needs a SS as well). Basically, if Towers takes Vitters, Olson, Marshall, and Cedeno/Fontenot he's essentially admitting defeat. I'm not saying he won't accept it, just that I think he will look bad if he does.

Wow Aduncaroo, thanks for the business lesson. I wasn't aware of the reason Tim was posting these updates.

Is that like how CNN reports on Paris Hilton's bra-size?

"Kenny, I don't think a team can be a "dark horse" unless it has anything of value to trade. For that reason the Astros aren't an option."

How are they any different than the Cubs from that comment? Both are weak in the prospect front, but if the Astros are willing to give up Pence and involve a 3rd team then they will have a better offer than just about anything the Cubs can give up. Both are going to need a 3rd team to get something done, but to say they don't have a shot because of prospects, but the Cubs do, is ludicrous. If the Astros are willing to part with Wigginton, Valverde, and maybe Pence then they would have a better deal, assuming their is a 3rd team that wants Wigginton and Valverde(Indians or a combination of Mets and another team)

I know most teams don't want Matthews but if the Angels are throwing prospects in to help you land Peavy you gotta give on something.

we all need to remember peavy has a no trade clause. he listed the braves as one of his initial teams, but maybe he went to towers and said e was only willing to go to the cubs now. in that case, towers has to get a decent return for him, or keep him. we dont know what peavy has said. so, in this case, it wouldnt matter what the braves offered.

Remember the Coop

Josh Lansford is a AA 3rd baseman. Above Average Fielder who hasnt developed his bat. He is like 23/24. Not a highly rated prospect, but a guy with talent.

MileHigh.. I doubt the Twins would do that either but Perkins is not in the Twins long term plans, he is a middling #5 starter. But I think would be a nice #5 for the Cubs.

What if the Cubs put Tony Thomas in instead of Josh Lansford? Thomas dosent have great range but might be a decent 3rd baseman?

Still against getting Peavy...

rememberthecoop,

I think the whole point of that deal was that the Cubs take on GMJ to make the DLee acquisition more payroll neutral for the Angels and to convince the Angels to give up Brandon Wood and another prospect for DLee. There is no way Lee nets a guy like Wood without the Cubs eating salary or taking a bad contract back. I doubt that idea will happen, but if the Cubs decide Peavy is more important than a RF its not that crazy.

intgr96:

You might be right as long as the supposed "3 way deal" continues and goes through. Can you imagine Towers, Wren, Peavy and these writers that exagerate a lot of these stories, and how they are laughing their asses off at all of us!!

The Braves will not go after Peavy any more. Wren doesn't like his possible health issues. Wren doesn't like Burnett's either, which is why it's strange to me that the Braves are sitting quiet and not doing much. I don't see how we can get Peavy and still keep Marshall and Font either, but then again who saw the Kevin Gregg/Jose Ceda trade coming? Why not go ahead and get Brian Giles in the Peavy trade and give up a bigger piece of our hitting lineup. That wouldn't be the first option, just food for thought, because let's be honest, No one wants to see Mark Teahen playing Right field for the Cubs next year. He couldn't hit in Kansas City, why would he be able to hit in Wrigley where people will hate him after he goes 0 for 20 in his first at-bats.

Nixa...you are correct. I meant to include Marshall in there as well.

Lets assume for just a second that the O's will take a Pie for Olson swap. This may take another low level prospect or something...but lets just say it happens.

Then, you have something like:

Vitters
Marshall
Fontenot/Cedeno
Olson
Jay Jackson as PTBNL

Its hard to say that a GM that has said he wants pitching back wouldn't prefer that offer. Maybe the Braves is better...is speculation and neither blows the other away...but if I were Towers, I'd take the Cubs as well. You may feel differently, and you wouldn't be wrong for it. Just MHO.

I see what you're saying about Matthews, but he wouldn't fulfill the Cubs need for a lefty hitter, which is more important than another starter. He hit .223 as a lefty last season and only .219 on the road.

nixa37,

That was the exact point of the deal. Matthews makes 11M a year and I think Lee makes 12M so the Cubs save alil money and get Peavy, and the Angels save some money by not signing Tex and they get rid of GMJ's contract

"basicslop- "This is all a coy..." What the hell is a coy?! Did you mean to say it's all a PLOY or perhaps that Towers is PLAYING coy or...? Just curious."

Either or. I'm having a hard time coming back to work after the long weekend.

My bad.

integr96,

It still matters to a large extent what the Braves offered because Towers clearly didn't think it was enough to consummate the deal. Thus the Cubs need to come up with similar value to that trade at a minimum. Also, as Peavy's agent has made clear, Peavy gave the Cubs his initial list and hasn't really been approached by the Padres since. You're really just being a ridiculous homer and letting your bias blind you if you think Peavy has suddenly reveresed course and demanded that if he's dealt it must be to the Cubs. The Cubs are just the only team bidding right now, there's nothing more to it than that.

rememberthecoop,

Ill admit Matthews had a bad year last year but he was also injured most of the year. Towards the end of the season he got healthy and started to produce. He also plays gold glove caliber defense

Why do you guys want D-Lee out of chicago so bad so we can get an average, aging Center Fielder in Matthews? That doesnt make sense to me. Can someone explain the reasoning there?

A 28 year-old journeyman has a very good 243 at-bats and suddenly he's off limits in a deal involving Jake Peavy?

As for Marshall, a nice guy to have around, why is he suddenly so valuable? Yes he's a lefty, but his minor league track record is spotty at best and he's replaceable.

Gbizle7,

The explanation is the Cubs need a 3rd team with good prospects to help them trade for Peavy. The only way that happens is if the 3rd team benefits too.

Aduncaroo,

I'll give you that offer, especially with Jackson as the low level guy, is better than the Braves rumored offer. The Braves offer would probably be similar in value, at least in my eyes, if they replaced Boyer with Locke or Rohrbough, but at this point that is unlikely to happen.

Vtadave,

His minor league track record is spotty maybe, but his Major League influence has been invaluable. Whenever Harden went out last year, he came in and gave solid starts. He's about as valuable as Marquis as far as an innings eater, without anywhere near the cost.

A more to the point explanation is the Cubs want Peavy and the Angels have the prospects to acquire Peavy. The Angels need a 1st baseman, and the Angels wanna dump Matthews' contract.

nixa... it works the same way for the braves. peavy could, behind the scenes tell towers he only wants to be dealt to the braves. towers keeps the cubs involved to see what they are offering. you then go to the braves and see if you can inch up just a little. if not, no big deal, you take the braves offer. but if you can keep the cubs invovled, at worst, the braves have no problem offering what the cubs could offer.

leave it to the cubbies to want one of the premier players for next to nothing, yet give up a great prospect for an overrated reliever when you already have a guy who loves the team in wood

Agreed Nixa. Frankly, I don't even want the Cubs to offer that...because I like Vitters too much and like what I've read on Jackson as well (not that he is a top 100 prospect just yet...I just like him so far).

Anyway, who knows...because the offer that I put out there is pretty much a lot of speculation and some educated guesses...so we'll see.

Just a hunch, but I don't see the Cubs getting Peavy. Nor do they really want him. I agree that Hendry as Tower's friend is hanging around helping his friend drive up the price while at the same time thinking he would certainly take Peavy if he falls into his lap. But a left hitting RF is the more pressing concern.

ok.. how about this.

Padres get Vitters, Pie, Marshall, Fontenot, and Cedeno.

Cubs Get Peavy and the entire AAA team from the Devil Rays

Rays get $150 M for a new stadium. And the Datona Cubs Roster..

:-)

Also, from what I've read, the Cubs are more interested in DeJesus from the Royals...which I would be cool with...depending on what they give up.

RAWbert,

I see what ur saying about having the 3rd team benefit from the trade. How does that help the cubs though, bc it seems to open up a hole in the cubs lineup that we can't fill. Hoffpauir definitely can't step up. I just think there's got to be a better solution than getting rid of one of the mainstays of our franchise. I still think we're stupid not to re-sign wood as well. He wants to stay.

It is quite clear that Kevin Towers is down a road of no return...

He does not want Peavy back and in this market, even for a Jake Peavy teams are not going to cough up two or three cheap studs for Peavy.

Peavy's contract is slightly below market value. Most teams would prefer paying market value for C.C., Lowe, Burnett, or take a flyer on Sheets then pony up for Peavy.

The Cubs will certainly take Peavy if Towers will accept spare parts and marginal players.

Gbizle7,

Couldn't DeRosa play 1st til Hoffpauir is ready, and that would free up 2nd for Fontenot.

EVERYONE!!!

Peavy wasn't traded to Atlanta for this reason:


Are you listening Braves fans?


He has a no trade clause!


He said NO to a trade to Atlanta!


THE END.

bleacherbuhhda---
Why give up Vitters etc.. if you have the Rays AAA team?

"Still against getting Peavy..."

I am not 100% against it, but not all fired up for a few reasons. A lot will be told to me in the next day or two and then I'll make a better judgement call on this situation.

Getting DeJesus from KC might be tough. Not saying not doable.

jtcubbies you got a source on that one? Seems pretty clear the Braves pulled out because of the price and start of FA, not the other way around.

RAWbert,

He COULD, but that cleans out our bench completely, leaving only cedeno,hoffpauir, johnson on the bench. I don't know that we'd get the same production out of DeRo either if he's always playing the same position. He seems to relish playing different positions and leaving him where he is makes the most sense for his production. I like keeping both font and cedeno to back up Theriot and DeRo, however, i don't think it'd be a terrible idea to trade 1 or both of them in order to pick up somebody with a little bit more power at those positions.

Can someone tell me if Derrek Lee actually blocked a trade??

I keep reading it on Prosportsdaily.com under the cubs message board as well as NSBB.com under the Peavy thread in the message board.

It is also on Cubs.com message board saying he blocked one. I think this would be big news considering the recent O's, Padres, and Cubs rumor trade for Peavy. Could he have blocked it to the O's???

It is driving me nuts and if someone has a link or source wether it is true or false would be great!

I disagree with a few things. First of all I think we need Peavy more then some of you thing. We dont have a lot of pitching prospects that will be ready in the next 2 years. We will be losing at least 2 pitchers after next year and god willing Marquis in a trade. so that leaves us short 2 pitchers if we place Samardzija in the rotation in 2010. What will we do then? Spend millions of dollars on middle of the order pitchers? Peavy would be a great fit in the rotation for the future.

Secondly, lets say we got Peavy. We probably couldnt afford a RFer. We have 2 decent options. Hoffpauir CAN play average RF or not far below and he has shown he can hit anywhere. Also, you could put DeRosa in RF and Fontenot at 2nd. Derosa can play average RF and Fontenot has shown he can hit. If we got peavy I would be fine with either of those scenrios, especially with what our starting rotation would be.

Anyone Agree? This is just MHO.

I haven't seen it documented anywhere that Lee blocked a trade...

If it were true, you would think we would have heard a little more about it.

uww1,

I'm in agreement with you. I think we need all the pitchers we can get, especially with the probability that Harden will get hurt at some point. I still don't see the point of getting rid of D-Lee, he's the most productive, reliable member of the middle of the batting order. Even if he is overpaid, he's worth it bc of his leadership in the clubhouse and his consistency.

Gbizle7,

Why would we give up Lee? I agree with you 100%. I believe he will have a comeback year, even though he had a good year last year. He was just down in homeruns and hit too many groundballs. He is the type of guy, who in my own opinion, can figure out his power struggles. I believe he is worth every penny of that $12 million contract!

Nixa, I think you and I just disagree on Boyer's value. Also, it was KT who withdrew the offer from the Braves. Only after this did Wren publicly pull out.

Kenny,

"Nothing to trade? How about the NL best closer for LESS than $10 mill? Or a power hitting 3B that can also play the outfield? How about a solid left handed starter?"

Are you seriously calling Valverde the NL's best, let alone good???...seriously? And Wigginton? C'mon!

You'd have to fool a 3rd team into thinking either of those guys are good to make any progress with the Padres. Good luck with that.

The package Atlanta offered blew away anything the Cubs could offer!

It was more than enough to get Peavy!


Get over it nixa37

I'm sorry he didn't say "no" to a trade to Atlanta

He said "NO WAY" to Atlanta!


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